who turned down the visit to meet the queen at croke park?

[AQMP]

What percentage of the GAA membership are actively promoting an Ghaeilge?
What percentage of GAA players or officials are able to be interviewed as Gaeilge ar TG4?
98% of Irish speak English ( unfortunately ) as their forst language and the GAA percentage is about the same I suspect.
Are they all to be "harangued"    or is that honour specially reserved for Sean Kelly because he upset the backwoodsmen while he was Uachtaráin?

Backwoodsman or Stalinist lickspittle...is that really the only choice for GAA people.   I hope not.

[haranguerer]

What percentage of the GAA membership are actively promoting an Ghaeilge?
What percentage of GAA players or officials are able to be interviewed as Gaeilge ar TG4?
98% of Irish speak English ( unfortunately ) as their forst language and the GAA percentage is about the same I suspect.
Are they all to be "harangued"    or is that honour specially reserved for Sean Kelly because he upset the backwoodsmen while he was Uachtaráin?

Rossfan, are you really that imbecilic that you cant see your post is at best (from your point of view) irrelevant, and at worst supports my point? You bemoan the fact very few are proficient in Irish, yet seem to have included this in an argument supporting an ex leader of the GAA in saying we have everything in common with england, including our language. You dont think he should possibly be promoting our own language, especially seing as how its in decline? Ffs, the queen did more to promote irish cultture with her cupla focal than he did.

And he didnt really upset me when he was president. I also have no objection really to the queens visit - its the manner in which the gaa treated its membership I would have issue with. The organsiation was set up to promote Irish language and culture. If its aims and its supposedly democratic make up is to be changed, then thats fine, do that, but dont pay lip service to the first when the actions scream the opposite.

Also, if a roscommon man isnt from the backwoods, who to f**k is?

Tubberman, the lead up was about the queens visit to Croke Park and the reasons for controversy, Sean Kelly was introduced as ex GAA president. To all listening to that interview he was speaking as a GAA member and ex-president.

[ross matt]

The idea (which MANY people seem to have) that if you oppose the visit, then you must be a dinosaur who can't move on is condescending.

It's the truth. You don't want to move on by your own admission. Fact.

Aye that's it. Drop the condescending, better than thou shite.

Ok. With all due respect, you're incapable of moving on.

Is that better?

Well speaking of moving on.... I saw Joe Kiernan on with Ger Gilroy on the TV last night and he was asked about the visit to Croker and the trip in general. To my great surprise he was very positive about it. Mentioned it was time to move on and remarked about how well it was handled plus said things are far better than they ever were etc. He was also gushing with praise for Mary Mac. Some people on here claim extra weight for their arguments based on having an NI address.  In view of Joe's club experiences alone with british army choppers etc and probably alot other worse things over the years of the troubles then should what he says not be taken very seriously ?

[Rossfan]

Rossfan, are you really that imbecilic that you cant see your post is at best (from your point of view) irrelevant, and at worst supports my point? You bemoan the fact very few are proficient in Irish, yet seem to have included this in an argument supporting an ex leader of the GAA in saying we have everything in common with england, including our language. You dont think he should possibly be promoting our own language, especially seing as how its in decline?
Also, if a roscommon man isnt from the backwoods, who to f**k is?

Cén fáth nach bhfuil tusa ag scríobh i nGaeilge an t-am go léir , in áit  bheith ag gearán faoi Sheáin O Ceallaigh ag insinnt an fhírinne go bhfuilimid go léir ( beagnach) ag labahirt sa theanga chéanna is na Sasanaigh.

As for your use of the term "imbecilic" -- I'm reporting to the mods.
and for your backward information Roscommon is the heart of Ireland and therefore of the Universe.

[Nally Stand]

The idea (which MANY people seem to have) that if you oppose the visit, then you must be a dinosaur who can't move on is condescending.

It's the truth. You don't want to move on by your own admission. Fact.

Aye that's it. Drop the condescending, better than thou shite.

Ok. With all due respect, you're incapable of moving on.

Is that better?

Well speaking of moving on.... I saw Joe Kiernan on with Ger Gilroy on the TV last night and he was asked about the visit to Croker and the trip in general. To my great surprise he was very positive about it. Mentioned it was time to move on and remarked about how well it was handled plus said things are far better than they ever were etc. He was also gushing with praise for Mary Mac. Some people on here claim extra weight for their arguments based on having an NI address.  In view of Joe's club experiences alone with british army choppers etc and probably alot other worse things over the years of the troubles then should what he says not be taken very seriously ?

Is that not essentially stating that the views of people in the six counties should only be taken seriously if they agree with the visit? What differentiates? Many people suffered a whole lot worse that big Joe and are wholly opposed to the visit. Should they not be taken equally as serious?

[ross matt]

I dont know. Thats what I'm asking?
I dont know who has suffered more than Joe or how much the man has suffered. You clearly do if you're making that statement. I was surprised as I expected him to be opposed and I would have seen him as representative of those that suffered but maybe not.

[rionach 4]

Would  totally agree with Nally Stand on this one . Many of my friends feel the exact same when this has arose in discussion. I am not a dinosaur or against moving on or whatever other title you wish to bestow upon six county nationalists whose only crime is that we want to be Irish and enjoy the same sense of freedom that our counterparts in the 26 have . We have made many compromises to hopefully acheive this aim some day.. We have moved on quite a lot. It may not happen in my generation but to hold high that ideal and make it possible someday is something that my father dreamed of I have and hopefully my children will. In the meantime we accept what the staus quo is at the moment. to that aim our only way of maintaining our identity is holding on to the culture that makes me feel Irish and keeps us together ie the GAA Irish language song dance etc.
The queens visit was again a divisive issue , for many in the 26 and some here to it's not a big deal. To us she is positioned as our Queen and we her loyal subjects . When she comes to the six counties she comes not as a foreign head of state but as a figure head ruler to visit her noble and loyal subjects of which whether I want it or not I am supposed to be one . All that was fought for meant nothing to us as we lost and you the 26 won. For her to recieve the accolades, the adulation the over celebrity like status is stomach churning . if thats what you call moving on thats fine it's certainly not a word I would use.

We in my area struggle to get our street names in Irish . We had our clubrooms burnt down twice withiin this past 10 years We didnt get any compo because the psni told us it wasnt a terrorist act because we couldnt prove that more than three people were involved. The council sent us a letter to complain about the flying of the tricolour at our matches and the letter was addressed to Mr Robert Emmett 16 **** road etc.Our church burnt to the ground 5 years ago by her loyal subjects. For us it is a struggle to be and maintain what many others take for granted. Times have improved and please god they will continue to improve but for the GAA or whoever to take the queen to Croke park when many of its patrons are denied the right to their national  identity in my opinion is wrong.
Having said that i would not be involved in any protest and certainly have nothing to do with the neanderthals that protested on the street but quietly register my protest and opinion if asked (which  wasnt ). i will continue to uphold my identity like many others whether the queen is here or not. AS I said life goes on

[Banana Man]

Would  totally agree with Nally Stand on this one . Many of my friends feel the exact same when this has arose in discussion. I am not a dinosaur or against moving on or whatever other title you wish to bestow upon six county nationalists whose only crime is that we want to be Irish and enjoy the same sense of freedom that our counterparts in the 26 have . We have made many compromises to hopefully acheive this aim some day.. We have moved on quite a lot. It may not happen in my generation but to hold high that ideal and make it possible someday is something that my father dreamed of I have and hopefully my children will. In the meantime we accept what the staus quo is at the moment. to that aim our only way of maintaining our identity is holding on to the culture that makes me feel Irish and keeps us together ie the GAA Irish language song dance etc.
The queens visit was again a divisive issue , for many in the 26 and some here to it's not a big deal. To us she is positioned as our Queen and we her loyal subjects . When she comes to the six counties she comes not as a foreign head of state but as a figure head ruler to visit her noble and loyal subjects of which whether I want it or not I am supposed to be one . All that was fought for meant nothing to us as we lost and you the 26 won. For her to recieve the accolades, the adulation the over celebrity like status is stomach churning . if thats what you call moving on thats fine it's certainly not a word I would use.

We in my area struggle to get our street names in Irish . We had our clubrooms burnt down twice withiin this past 10 years We didnt get any compo because the psni told us it wasnt a terrorist act because we couldnt prove that more than three people were involved. The council sent us a letter to complain about the flying of the tricolour at our matches and the letter was addressed to Mr Robert Emmett 16 **** road etc.Our church burnt to the ground 5 years ago by her loyal subjects. For us it is a struggle to be and maintain what many others take for granted. Times have improved and please god they will continue to improve but for the GAA or whoever to take the queen to Croke park when many of its patrons are denied the right to their national  identity in my opinion is wrong.
Having said that i would not be involved in any protest and certainly have nothing to do with the neanderthals that protested on the street but quietly register my protest and opinion if asked (which  wasnt ). i will continue to uphold my identity like many others whether the queen is here or not. AS I said life goes on

Great post. Couldn't agree more.

[Rossfan]

for the GAA or whoever to take the queen to Croke park when many of its patrons are denied the right to their national  identity in my opinion is wrong.

As the status quo in the North is maintained by the vote of the majority  there surely the Nationalist parties should not be co operating with Unionist politicians as it is they (Unionists) who are denying you the right to your national identity rather than Britain's Queen.

Why didnt you raise the Council's letter with your local Nationalist reps and with the Irish government, British government etc as it's obviously against the "parity of esteem" principles underlying the good Friday Agreement.

[Applesisapples]

The idea (which MANY people seem to have) that if you oppose the visit, then you must be a dinosaur who can't move on is condescending.

It's the truth. You don't want to move on by your own admission. Fact.

Aye that's it. Drop the condescending, better than thou shite.

Ok. With all due respect, you're incapable of moving on.

Is that better?

Well speaking of moving on.... I saw Joe Kiernan on with Ger Gilroy on the TV last night and he was asked about the visit to Croker and the trip in general. To my great surprise he was very positive about it. Mentioned it was time to move on and remarked about how well it was handled plus said things are far better than they ever were etc. He was also gushing with praise for Mary Mac. Some people on here claim extra weight for their arguments based on having an NI address.  In view of Joe's club experiences alone with british army choppers etc and probably alot other worse things over the years of the troubles then should what he says not be taken very seriously ?

Is that not essentially stating that the views of people in the six counties should only be taken seriously if they agree with the visit? What differentiates? Many people suffered a whole lot worse that big Joe and are wholly opposed to the visit. Should they not be taken equally as serious?

Nally, a lot of Clubs in Ulster including my own lost members during the troubles and it is the case that some like your self do not feel it was appropriate for Croke Park to host the Queen. But we live in a democracy. I am in favour of the visit I think it is positive but I acknowledge that you have a right to object and I feel that others here should allow you to express your opinions, because that's what a forum is all about. It is right that we should all move on but in our own time.

[Applesisapples]

Would  totally agree with Nally Stand on this one . Many of my friends feel the exact same when this has arose in discussion. I am not a dinosaur or against moving on or whatever other title you wish to bestow upon six county nationalists whose only crime is that we want to be Irish and enjoy the same sense of freedom that our counterparts in the 26 have . We have made many compromises to hopefully acheive this aim some day.. We have moved on quite a lot. It may not happen in my generation but to hold high that ideal and make it possible someday is something that my father dreamed of I have and hopefully my children will. In the meantime we accept what the staus quo is at the moment. to that aim our only way of maintaining our identity is holding on to the culture that makes me feel Irish and keeps us together ie the GAA Irish language song dance etc.
The queens visit was again a divisive issue , for many in the 26 and some here to it's not a big deal. To us she is positioned as our Queen and we her loyal subjects . When she comes to the six counties she comes not as a foreign head of state but as a figure head ruler to visit her noble and loyal subjects of which whether I want it or not I am supposed to be one . All that was fought for meant nothing to us as we lost and you the 26 won. For her to recieve the accolades, the adulation the over celebrity like status is stomach churning . if thats what you call moving on thats fine it's certainly not a word I would use.

We in my area struggle to get our street names in Irish . We had our clubrooms burnt down twice withiin this past 10 years We didnt get any compo because the psni told us it wasnt a terrorist act because we couldnt prove that more than three people were involved. The council sent us a letter to complain about the flying of the tricolour at our matches and the letter was addressed to Mr Robert Emmett 16 **** road etc.Our church burnt to the ground 5 years ago by her loyal subjects. For us it is a struggle to be and maintain what many others take for granted. Times have improved and please god they will continue to improve but for the GAA or whoever to take the queen to Croke park when many of its patrons are denied the right to their national  identity in my opinion is wrong.
Having said that i would not be involved in any protest and certainly have nothing to do with the neanderthals that protested on the street but quietly register my protest and opinion if asked (which  wasnt ). i will continue to uphold my identity like many others whether the queen is here or not. AS I said life goes on

A great post I have only one small point to make, you are only her loyal subject if you want to be. I am Irish in my heart my soul and passport I will never bow to any monarch. Another small point I don't think she would condone the base actions of those so called loyal subjects who continue to harass your club. It seems to be difficult for some of our Southern Brethern to understand what life was like and is like for GAA members and clubs in some parts of Ulster.

[rionach 4]

Their letter Rossfan was to point out to us that objections had been raised by local ratepayers as to the flying of the flag . They, the council were informing us about the objections  . the point I was making was not about the objections but rather the fact that the council thought Mr Robert Emmett was our secretary and not the name of our club.. The so called majority in the North is supported  and aided by the British government. In an effort to compromise we have indeed agreed to work with this self created majority as we have no other choice. I never wanted to be British I never asked to be but due to the establishment of N-Ireland by the Government of Ireland act  I am officially classified as that.  I can shout all I like about being Irish etc but i am classed different than you . Live here and you feel it.
Rossfan if the british government withdrew its support for the state of N-Ireland it couldnt exist. Wasnt that the point of the struggle for this past 40 years whether you agree with it or not. I am Irish but my right to be Irish is denied  . I stand over my statement

[Nally Stand]

I dont know. Thats what I'm asking?
I dont know who has suffered more than Joe or how much the man has suffered. You clearly do if you're making that statement. I was surprised as I expected him to be opposed and I would have seen him as representative of those that suffered but maybe not.

Well I know that there are families who have lost multiple immediate family members at the hands of HM forces and who are opposed to this visit. You say Joe Kernan's club had their ground occupied, and he can support the visit, so therefor his views should be taken seriously. My question is, what specifically makes Joe Kernan's opinion more worthy of being taken seriously than the opinion of families I mentioned in my opening sentence of this post? If the very same Joe Kernan in that interview had opposed the visit, would you still have said his views should be taken seriously in light of british abuses of his club or would he have just been another person who 'couldn't move on'? I'm not trying to get at you here, I'm asking it as a genuine question.

[Rossfan]

Have you got an Irish passport Rionach?
Do you vote for ( or have the right to vote for) Irish politicians in a local Irish based Assembly?
The Irish ( 26 Co) Constitution declares you have the right to be Irish.

But the point I was raising was that it's not Britain's Queen or even their Government that is standing between us and an All Ireland Independent entity ... it is the majority of your Irish 6 Co residents who won't vote for Unity.
If the Brits withdraw their support for the entity known as "Northern(sic) Ireland" no one else could afford to pick up where they left off at present and  anyway they are leaving it up to the majority of locals to decide.

The local Council don't sound very "parity of esteem" minded right enough but moan/complain etc through official channels till they  get sick of you. 

[ross matt]

I dont know. Thats what I'm asking?
I dont know who has suffered more than Joe or how much the man has suffered. You clearly do if you're making that statement. I was surprised as I expected him to be opposed and I would have seen him as representative of those that suffered but maybe not.

Well I know that there are families who have lost multiple immediate family members at the hands of HM forces and who are opposed to this visit. You say Joe Kernan's club had their ground occupied, and he can support the visit, so therefor his views should be taken seriously. My question is, what specifically makes Joe Kernan's opinion more worthy of being taken seriously than the opinion of families I mentioned in my opening sentence of this post? If the very same Joe Kernan in that interview had opposed the visit, would you still have said his views should be taken seriously in light of british abuses of his club or would he have just been another person who 'couldn't move on'? I'm not trying to get at you here, I'm asking it as a genuine question.

Listen I could care less about the visit. I posted a few days ago that its a cost and distraction we cant afford. I think the concept of Monarchy is laughable anyway. I wouldnt belittle any of the opinions of anyone that suffered at the hands of British forces. I dont think Joe's opinion is any more worthy as you put it than theirs. I only assumed Joe would have been representative of alot of NI GAA community but like I said maybe I'm wrong there. He or his family may also have suffered more than helicopter pitch invasions from the security forces during the troubles. I dont know if this is the case but I dont think you know him well enough to know if it is either. Like I said I was surprised he was so positive about it and I assumed many people in the immediate Crossmaglen area at least would have alot in common with Joe and even be infleunced by him. He is a legend in fairness. Dunno if that answers your question but its the best I can do.