Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[NP 76]

Houghlan was average enough too hardly the standard of Oisin or Marsden . We couldnt wait to get rid of POR just glad that you boys took him 

[pintsofguinness]

Houghlan was average enough too hardly the standard of Oisin or Marsden . We couldnt wait to get rid of POR just glad that you boys took him

Personally I'd have him on the same level as Marsden, I don't think anyone from Armagh could touch Oisin but that's a whole other thread. That said, if O'Rourke was "top class" Houlahan, Oisin and Marsden are/were just out of this world!!

[Throw ball]

I do not care at this time if Paddy O'Rourke is a good or average manager. At the minute he is our manager and he will get my support. I did not want him as manager at the start but as supporters I think we should be supporting the team and assess things at the end of the championship. Talk like this destroyed the final year of the last managers reign. Since then we have gained promotion and had five championship managers in one season. Progress. Division 1 is tough but as manager POR has a better record than McDonnell and Big Joe in his last 2 years. Sunday was depressing, not in that we lost but in how we lost. Would the tactics have worked if we had a full quota to work with. I doubt it, but we would have put up a better show. The one thing I will say though is that the team does not give up.
Also, the first time I saw Gerard Houlahan play was in 1981 or 82 when he carried Armagh CBS to an All Ireland title. He was a great player then and despite a bad injury got even better. He carried a poor Armagh team for years and IMO only Oisin and Stevie have grounds to say they were better.
Finally I think the Armagh management team are POR, Donal Murtagh and Sean Hagan(?) from Burren.

[Banana Man]

lads maybe POR isn't the problem, maybe he has nothing to work with??

now i'm not saying he's a good or bad manager or a good or bad footballer, that's a different discussion, i'm saying the 2002 team is still in your recent memory, armaghs golden generation, these lads spoiled you's with the long summers they gave you, i mind poyntzpass used to take the red white and blue bunting down after the 12th of July and put up armagh bunting, how many teams get consistent seasons when they are playing into august?

you's have to get a new team together, and that doesn't happen overnight, Down under pete mcgrath kept the old guard too long and left nothing and that's why we were in the wilderness for so long, you's hit the panic button under mcdonnell and now under o'rourke, maybe it isn't the manager, maybe it's what he has to work with, you's need to drop the expectation levels and row in behind your team

[DuffleKing]

lads maybe POR isn't the problem, maybe he has nothing to work with??

now i'm not saying he's a good or bad manager or a good or bad footballer, that's a different discussion, i'm saying the 2002 team is still in your recent memory, armaghs golden generation, these lads spoiled you's with the long summers they gave you, i mind poyntzpass used to take the red white and blue bunting down after the 12th of July and put up armagh bunting, how many teams get consistent seasons when they are playing into august?

you's have to get a new team together, and that doesn't happen overnight, Down under pete mcgrath kept the old guard too long and left nothing and that's why we were in the wilderness for so long, you's hit the panic button under mcdonnell and now under o'rourke, maybe it isn't the manager, maybe it's what he has to work with, you's need to drop the expectation levels and row in behind your team

Much of that is true, however that is really not what is por's difficulty. He is coming from a position where armagh people were prepared to accept him as manager (that's being generous and only because they wanted the blood letting to be over), a tiny minority 'wanted' him, and a lot of people were openly hostile to his appointment. he knew this and accepted the job on these terms. He was never going to have a honeymoon period and every mstake was waited for.
He hasn't performed to a level other than what was expected. People can say what they like but those that know armagh football know that there are plenty of raw materials and potential there as well as no small amount of established quality. The frustration comes from knowing we have not developed as we should have. The reality is that this is year four of this team's development - it began in 08 - and mismanagement has held back what should have been a team built around the 04 all ireland team.
por never was the right man for the job - county board, knowledgable supporters and obviously the players knew that - and when the co board could not get a strong backroom team and had to return to the previously rejected murtagh, the writing was on the wall.
por will of course see the season out and who knows, a good qualifier draw and run through the back door could evenkeep him in situ for next year. 

[bcarrier]

And what's this talk of Paddy O'Rouke being a "good footballer" - he was average at best imo.

An "average" footballer who has won All Ireland medals at every grade and two AI club medals...plus the fact he captained an AI winning senior team...

Average manager maybe....but a top class footballer in his time...

Youse boys talk some shite..
[/quote]

+1

I hate it when a footballer like Paddy gets judged on form near the end of his career when injuries had taken their toll. By the time he won the elusive All Ireland Paddy was past his peak but ask any of that Down team and they will only have praise for his leadership on and off the field. He was an absolutely awesome player in his younger days and has one of the most complete medal hauls in the game to prove it.

[Brick Tamlin]

He's also quite a scary big bugger.

[Applesisapples]

Remaining in the top flight this year should be considered a successful year for Armagh from a league perspective.  Still being in the Championship in August time would be a big achievement.

Totally agree. Staying in Div1 would be an achievement and important for development of the team going into next year.

Beating Down is possible although hand on heart how many Armagh fans think we can win Ulster this year? QFs would represent a decent season. Like many still not convinced about POR but the players seem to be putting in the effort for him and the time to judge him will be end of championship.

I have never been overly convinced by POR, however given our limited resources the 3 Kernans, Jamie Clarke, David McKenna and young Morgan would at least give him some better options. Judge him on the season, a semi and survival in the league are realistic ambitions.

[naka]

guys whilst we may wish for a change POR is going no where, what he needs now is help in the forward line and he must seek it and I am sure there is someone in the county  to assist him in this regard.
for me beating down is a must coupled withe a run to the quarters

[armagho9]

Anyone who says POR has not made progress must have very short memories.

1st year in charge.  Division 2 champions and promotion to division 1.  5 championship games, ending with a narrow defeat to dublin who went onto lose narrowly in all-ireland semi final to the eventual champions.

2nd year in charge.  Looks likely to retain division 1 status without the services of the crossmaglen players and Ronan Clarke. 

Granted at times we have seemed to be without a game plan, but i remember similar criticisms of McAlinden and to a lesser extent Kernan.  I think its stupid for people to be calling for his sacking during a decent league campaign.  I will wait to see what happens in the summer before i judge

[winsamsoon]

cheers throw ball i was wondering who that third man was

[PAULD123]

Anyone who says POR has not made progress must have very short memories.

1st year in charge.  Division 2 champions and promotion to division 1.  5 championship games, ending with a narrow defeat to dublin who went onto lose narrowly in all-ireland semi final to the eventual champions.

2nd year in charge.  Looks likely to retain division 1 status without the services of the crossmaglen players and Ronan Clarke. 

Granted at times we have seemed to be without a game plan, but i remember similar criticisms of McAlinden and to a lesser extent Kernan.  I think its stupid for people to be calling for his sacking during a decent league campaign.  I will wait to see what happens in the summer before i judge

I think POR is a poor manager. I agree the comments above are spot on. He has achieved an at least acceptable level of success. Promotion and survival are good if not spectacular and should not be judged till after the summer. But I think most Armagh fans feel that Armagh are barely perfroming to the sum of their parts when you expect a manager to form a team that is better than its parts. That's why POR is not good enough. I certainly would not want him back with Down.

[bennydorano]

Isn't his record better than wee jame's co career, silverware in cupboard

[thewobbler]

I wouldn't want POR within loudspeaker range of a Down team again, but I have to say Armagh fans just won't accept that their current team just isn't good enough.

[NP 76]

Have to agree with wobbler and paul 123 would hate to see POR back with Down at any stage not only because of his managerial qualities but because he would even contemplate going to your biggest rivals. No one else would even think of doing this . This move was like a two finger salute to Down as much as anything else . The other Burren man with him is Sean o Hare and i think he is a trainer