Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[Cold tea]

Getting on the county team is a bit like getting into university, the hard part is getting in, then it is nearly impossible to get kicked out.  There are many living on past seasons on the Armagh team, a totally fresh manager is needed and asap to gave them time to choose and build a team.

[mackers]

The answer is in my post...co operation?

No it's not.....how do they co-operate? 

[PatDaly]

A big part of the problem is the GAA Club fixtures calendar. The 2012 All-Ireland club series should be completely finished in 2012, it shouldn't be running on until March 2013. If Cross win Ulster again this year then it won't make a difference who the new Armagh manager is - they'll only have about 2 months blending the Cross players into the Armagh team in preparation for the championship.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

The answer is in my post...co operation?

No it's not.....how do they co-operate?

Crossmaglen have been quite clear on this issue for a decade and a half. There will be no co-operation and Crossmaglen players will not play for Armagh while Rangers remain in the championship, bar the odd exceptional situation where a player may need games returning from injury. I don't blame them for that stance in the slightest, they are right to do what in best for their club but it is hindering Armagh's development.

Of course, one way around the problem is for another Armagh team to beat them. In the unlikely event that Cullyhanna managed that, don't worry, we wouldn't do anything stupid like winning Ulster!

[Throw ball]

Now that POR is gone does that mean the whole management team is gone so a new manager can pick his own or will Paul Grimley automatically take over?

[Applesisapples]

The answer is in my post...co operation?

No it's not.....how do they co-operate?

Crossmaglen have been quite clear on this issue for a decade and a half. There will be no co-operation and Crossmaglen players will not play for Armagh while Rangers remain in the championship, bar the odd exceptional situation where a player may need games returning from injury. I don't blame them for that stance in the slightest, they are right to do what in best for their club but it is hindering Armagh's development.

Of course, one way around the problem is for another Armagh team to beat them. In the unlikely event that Cullyhanna managed that, don't worry, we wouldn't do anything stupid like winning Ulster!

But that's exactly the point Cross need to step up and make some players available. They play challenges during that time so injury shouldn't be an issue. Also it wouldn't need to be every player for every game.
I would agree that the championship needs to finish by the end of January at the latest.

[brokencrossbar1]

The answer is in my post...co operation?

No it's not.....how do they co-operate?

Crossmaglen have been quite clear on this issue for a decade and a half. There will be no co-operation and Crossmaglen players will not play for Armagh while Rangers remain in the championship, bar the odd exceptional situation where a player may need games returning from injury. I don't blame them for that stance in the slightest, they are right to do what in best for their club but it is hindering Armagh's development.

Of course, one way around the problem is for another Armagh team to beat them. In the unlikely event that Cullyhanna managed that, don't worry, we wouldn't do anything stupid like winning Ulster!

But that's exactly the point Cross need to step up and make some players available. They play challenges during that time so injury shouldn't be an issue. Also it wouldn't need to be every player for every game.
I would agree that the championship needs to finish by the end of January at the latest.

What do you mean Cross need to step up? Why the hell should they? If anything the 2 championship matches have shown thaty Cross players have fitted in nicely to the county set up and if anything are above many of the other players. The reality is that there are players who are currently playing who are not up to standard at the minute. That is either due to an ineptitude on their own part or on the part of the current management. I would put it down to a mixture of both. Its not Cross thay need to step up to the mark. 

[armaghniac]

Having the AI champions in your county might be problem, but some of the comment here is off the mark.
The AI club cannot be run off before Christmas, this would require all club championships cleared in mid September and that would prematurely end the season.

What happened yesterday didn't have anything to do with Cross' in my opinion. Decent players, with minor and U-21 success, did not show any spirit or heart. The Cross contingent did their bit. As noted here, the absence of Cross players should give others their chance, yet people here are of the opinion that this is not happening.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Having the AI champions in your county might be problem, but some of the comment here is off the mark.
The AI club cannot be run off before Christmas, this would require all club championships cleared in mid September and that would prematurely end the season.

What happened yesterday didn't have anything to do with Cross' in my opinion. Decent players, with minor and U-21 success, did not show any spirit or heart. The Cross contingent did their bit. As noted here, the absence of Cross players should give others their chance, yet people here are of the opinion that this is not happening.

The point I'm making is that the whole GAA fixture structure needs revamping, with the intercounty season ending earlier and proper provision being made for clubs.

[brokencrossbar1]

Having the AI champions in your county might be problem, but some of the comment here is off the mark.
The AI club cannot be run off before Christmas, this would require all club championships cleared in mid September and that would prematurely end the season.

What happened yesterday didn't have anything to do with Cross' in my opinion. Decent players, with minor and U-21 success, did not show any spirit or heart. The Cross contingent did their bit. As noted here, the absence of Cross players should give others their chance, yet people here are of the opinion that this is not happening.

The point I'm making is that the whole GAA fixture structure needs revamping, with the intercounty season ending earlier and proper provision being made for clubs.

But hold on a second, the AI club championship affects 4 clubs and 4 counties. Why should the whole system be overhauled on that basis. Over the years in hurling in aprticular you have had a number of club teams that have been consistently strong, Ballyhale, Newtownshandrum, Portumna, Athenry, and these county teams have been able to blend in the players year in year out and I know for a fact that they weren't playing county hurling most of the time. The was a situation created way back at the start by the county board and the team management of the time which is still causing the problem. Cross have tried I the past to be co-operative but it was thrown back in our faces. This has hardened attitudes and as a result there is less leeway. Don't be looking to Oliver Plunkett Park for the answers, the answer is elsewhere.

[Bensars]

Having the AI champions in your county might be problem, but some of the comment here is off the mark.
The AI club cannot be run off before Christmas, this would require all club championships cleared in mid September and that would prematurely end the season.

What happened yesterday didn't have anything to do with Cross' in my opinion. Decent players, with minor and U-21 success, did not show any spirit or heart. The Cross contingent did their bit. As noted here, the absence of Cross players should give others their chance, yet people here are of the opinion that this is not happening.

The point I'm making is that the whole GAA fixture structure needs revamping, with the intercounty season ending earlier and proper provision being made for clubs.

So the GAA should change its fixture structure to benefit a few  counties ?


Didnt seem to have much of an effect in 2005 when Armagh were at the business end of the champioship ?

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

"Benefit" is hardly the right word, ensuring fairness a more reasonable description. There are many justifications for an overhaul of the GAA fixture list, this is merely one of them.

[Onion Bag]

Sorry have i missed something here, BCB what was thrown back in the face of cross?
Am i the only one on here that thinks crossmaglens success SHOULD be a positive to Armagh's county set up.
it is just going to take a some way of getting a system that suits all parties.

[mackers]

Having the AI champions in your county might be problem, but some of the comment here is off the mark.
The AI club cannot be run off before Christmas, this would require all club championships cleared in mid September and that would prematurely end the season.

What happened yesterday didn't have anything to do with Cross' in my opinion. Decent players, with minor and U-21 success, did not show any spirit or heart. The Cross contingent did their bit. As noted here, the absence of Cross players should give others their chance, yet people here are of the opinion that this is not happening.

The point I'm making is that the whole GAA fixture structure needs revamping, with the intercounty season ending earlier and proper provision being made for clubs.

So the GAA should change its fixture structure to benefit a few  counties ?


Didnt seem to have much of an effect in 2005 when Armagh were at the business end of the champioship ?

In fairness Bensars that point is irrelevant for two reasons. The first is that Cross had had a few seasons where there weren't competing in AI club finals so their players were not tied up for inter-county league campaigns for years on end.  Secondly, the McEntees, Oisin, Francie etc. were established inter county players.  Currently you could only say that Aaron Kernan and Jamie Clarke fit into that bracket.  There are a few of their players that might be able to make the step up but the county management are unable to have a decent look at them due to their continued success on the club scene.

Over the years in hurling in aprticular you have had a number of club teams that have been consistently strong, Ballyhale, Newtownshandrum, Portumna, Athenry, and these county teams have been able to blend in the players year in year out and I know for a fact that they weren't playing county hurling most of the time.

So how can we learn from this bc?  What were they doing that we aren't?

There is a 13 day rule for IC players playing with their clubs, should we have this reversed that Cross players can play for their county up to 13 days before a championship match with Cross?

[Applesisapples]

The answer is in my post...co operation?

No it's not.....how do they co-operate?

Crossmaglen have been quite clear on this issue for a decade and a half. There will be no co-operation and Crossmaglen players will not play for Armagh while Rangers remain in the championship, bar the odd exceptional situation where a player may need games returning from injury. I don't blame them for that stance in the slightest, they are right to do what in best for their club but it is hindering Armagh's development.

Of course, one way around the problem is for another Armagh team to beat them. In the unlikely event that Cullyhanna managed that, don't worry, we wouldn't do anything stupid like winning Ulster!

But that's exactly the point Cross need to step up and make some players available. They play challenges during that time so injury shouldn't be an issue. Also it wouldn't need to be every player for every game.
I would agree that the championship needs to finish by the end of January at the latest.

What do you mean Cross need to step up? Why the hell should they? If anything the 2 championship matches have shown thaty Cross players have fitted in nicely to the county set up and if anything are above many of the other players. The reality is that there are players who are currently playing who are not up to standard at the minute. That is either due to an ineptitude on their own part or on the part of the current management. I would put it down to a mixture of both. Its not Cross thay need to step up to the mark.

Look I'm not having a go at Cross and you are right. Look at my posts on this issue i've been calling for the likes of The Kernans and Hannratyy and Cunningham to be included. The excuse is always they aren't available to March...is there a compromise or are you confirming the allegations of others elsewhere that in Cross it's only Cross that matters and the County comes way down the list?