Election 2011 Offical Thread.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Alastair Campbell on the 11'th hour last night, defending the Bertie Brigade. I wish he would f**k off and worry about his own country. Did Blair not do enough damage giving that sc**bag the honour of talking in the British Parliament. Utter pondweed.

[Declan]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?" 

[Denn Forever]

"really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"

It is depressing isn't it.  Spot on political analysis.

[Hound]

I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.

I just told you I'm not a FFer, but you're calling me a liar because of 2 or 3 posts where I said Enda is a gobshite? You can fook right off on to my ignore list, and if you think there aren't a significant number of people who will vote FG but who also think Enda is a complete plank, then you are very much mistaken (again).

[mylestheslasher]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"

Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.

[Canalman]

3d election in my own home and never had anyone call to the door canvassing. Live in a housing estate and all. Got my first election leaflet yesterday.

[Lar Naparka]

From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?

That's the story that is doing the rounds alright but I'd say there is a lot more to it than that. ASAIK, no one in FG as officially confirmed this.

For starters, there is much that could be lost and nothing to be gained for Enda and FG if he agrees to take part in a three way debate with Martin and Gilmore. Kenny & co. are doing grand in the polls right now and he is reluctant to cede any advantage to either of the others concerned. Martin proposed the debate, the format and the subject matter. He was in his new job as FF leader when he proposed a leaders' debate between Kenny, Gilmore and himself. He wants to debate plans for the future of the country and says he has loads of goodies to put before the electorate... he's sorry FF made a mess of things but from here on, things are going to be different. Okay; he might not have put things exactly like that but that's what he means.
FG, on the other hand, want to keep hammering away at FF's role in b ringing ruination to the country and don't take kindly to letting Martin dictate anything to them. Martin says he is very sorry for the mess his party got us into but he has nice, new shiny plans for the future and he'd like to take this opportunity to present them to the nation.
Kenny isn't falling for that one.
Gilmore wants to be regarded as a credible option as Taoiseach and he would love to mix it with the traditional big two on an equal footing. Lab may have made such noises at times in the past but the Lab leader has never got equal billing with the FF and FG leaders when potential Taoisigh were participating in debates like the proposed one tonight.
He seems to be a reasonably competent TV operator and if he does well tonight it should strengthen his hand when it comes to the inevitable coalition talks with FG after the dust has settled. It's a case of the closer Lab finishes to FG when the seats are counted, the greater leverage Lab will have when those talks begin.
Both Martin and Gilmore have their ulterior reasons for having a debate with Kenny and he has his own reasons for not giving in to their demands.
I'm surprised that FG seems prepared to completely ignore proceedings tonight and don't emphasise that Kenny has agreed to a similar debate at a time and to a format of his choosing.

The danger is that the notion that Kenny is running scared will spread and that would surely do more damage to his party's electoral chances than an unimpressive display tonight. It's hard to figure out what FG is up to but that's nothing new.

[muppet]

I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.

I just told you I'm not a FFer, but you're calling me a liar because of 2 or 3 posts where I said Enda is a gobshite? You can fook right off on to my ignore list, and if you think there aren't a significant number of people who will vote FG but who also think Enda is a complete plank, then you are very much mistaken (again).

Another ad hominem this time on me.

I still think you are an FFer due to your refusal to contribute to any issue other than the ad hominem on Kenny.

BTW I am entitled under law to think whatever I like and to whatever opinion I choose. Nowhere did I call you a liar.

[Hound]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.

100%.

From the brightest economic minds to the likes of me and you, nobody really has clue how this mess can best be solved. Just like nobody had a clue there was mess at all until we're in the middle of it.

But its never a good idea to have one party in power for so long.

[Hound]

From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?

That's the story that is doing the rounds alright but I'd say there is a lot more to it than that. ASAIK, no one in FG as officially confirmed this.

Last week Kenny had said he wouldnt do the debate because there was only 3 of them and not the 5 leaders involved.

Then on Friday Kenny said he wouldnt do it with Browne because of the alcohol/gun/suicide jibe. He said this during an interview so it was broadcast by all the radio stations on Friday evening.

Then over the weekend Kenny said that he wouldnt do it even if Browne wasn't involved because the timing didnt suit!

Kenny will be participating in the other debates though, both 3-way and 5-way, so he's just come out of all this looking very silly. 

I found it strange people are saying that just because Martin wants debates that its somehow his idea or he's in control. The TV companies would be doing their best to run the debates, whether Martin had said he wanted them or not.

[muppet]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.

100%.

From the brightest economic minds to the likes of me and you, nobody really has clue how this mess can best be solved. Just like nobody had a clue there was mess at all until we're in the middle of it.

But its never a good idea to have one party in power for so long.

Something we can agree on.

However there was discretion the night of the bank guarantee and the decision was in the hands of Lenihan and Cowen. They got it horribly wrong and need to be held accountable.

It is not fair to say the FG/Labour/SF etc would have done the same thing because we simply don't know. Their decisions whether to vote for or against the guarantee were based on ignorance of facts that are only leaking out now. They can't really be held accountable although I concede that I/was am concerned at the lack of foresight or instinct shown by them that could be seen even on a site like this within 12 hours of the guarantee.

[Lar Naparka]

Last week Kenny had said he wouldnt do the debate because there was only 3 of them and not the 5 leaders involved.

Then on Friday Kenny said he wouldnt do it with Browne because of the alcohol/gun/suicide jibe. He said this during an interview so it was broadcast by all the radio stations on Friday evening.

Then over the weekend Kenny said that he wouldnt do it even if Browne wasn't involved because the timing didnt suit!

Kenny will be participating in the other debates though, both 3-way and 5-way, so he's just come out of all this looking very silly. 

I found it strange people are saying that just because Martin wants debates that its somehow his idea or he's in control. The TV companies would be doing their best to run the debates, whether Martin had said he wanted them or not.

I wasn't aware when I wrote my last post that Kenny had actually used the  jibe in question as his excuse for refusing too do the interview with Browne. There were so many developments going on simultaneously that I somehow didn't pick this up. But I do recall it now and it casts Kenny in a very bad light. Surely, someone in FG must realise the damage to Kenny's credibility and to that of his party also that has been done.
As you say, he has agreed to appear in a 3-way debate so his reasons for refusing to partake in this one seem silly. FG are riding high in the polls and Kenny has been through a previous leaders' debate—unlike his rivals so he shouldn't be unduly afraid of what they might be able to throw at him.
I think his refusal to take part tonight is based on the fact that Martin actually suggested the debate and TV3 moved in quickly to offer to televise it—it was a done deal before Kenny and FG, the leading party in the polls, had a chance to propose anything.
No matter which way you look at it, Kenny comes out badly. It's a bit like scoring an unenforced own goal.

[Hardy]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"

Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.

... or the big Cavan jessie inside who's going to hassle them about gay rights? 

[mylestheslasher]

Folks there is no difference in real policy terms between Lab,FG or FF. Tweeks around tax rates etc but nothing substantial. No one has any idea what will happen when the default comes - none of them seem to have any policies as to how to deal with the after effects of the what is looking like the ever increasing break up of the euro into a strong and weak version. No one is addressing the run on the deposits in the banks.
Until we run out of drink and or people cannot get money from an ATM or public servants aren't paid cos there is no money people seem to me to be adopting an ostrich type approach to our current situation and praying that it will all go away.
FG called to the door last night. I wasn't in but my daughter who is voting for the first time answered it. She asked a couple of questions particularly around their plans for 3rd level students ( she's in 1st year) and how she would like to stay in Ireland after graduating but at the moment sees no way that it is possible and said the response was completely underwhelming and offered nothing to her. She even said why should I vote if nothing will change? Had the chat with her re voting democracy etc but it was hard to argue with her that "really Dad nothing will change no matter who gets in will it?"

Its a side issue but in my experience the vast majority of canvassers haven't a clue what the party they represents policies on anything are. Now if you want to talk about the pothole in the road, the esb pole you want moved etc they'll blather on about that. Ask them about Gay rights, foreign policy on middle east or god forbid how they will get us out of the financial mess we are in you'll mostly get a blank stare. Saying that no one has come to our door yet, might be the big german shepard outside.

... or the big Cavan jessie inside who's going to hassle them about gay rights? 

I hear the hot topic on the doorsteps of Meath is the legalising of beastiality - any truth in that

[muppet]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.

It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU