Margaret Thatcher....

[seafoid]

David Winnick, MP for East Walsall in the English Midlands said: "It would be absolutely hypocritical if those of us who were opposed at the time to what occurred – the mass unemployment, the poverty – were to remain silent when the house is debating her life. This will be an opportunity to speak frankly.
"Obviously when a person dies one regrets it. But what I do regret first and foremost is the immense harm, certainly in the West Midlands where deindustrialisation occurred.
"Even if it could be argued that some of it was inevitable, the manner in which it was done – the brutal contempt towards those who were innocent victims – was absolutely disgraceful."


The more I read about her the more odious she becomes. Especially on Norn Irn. What a waste of 11 years.

[Gaffer]

Saw graffiti, huge lettering, behind St Mary's teacher training college this morning

"Rot in hell Tatcher scum"

Was probably one of the Ranchers did it too 

     Will you leave teachers alone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BarryBreensBandage]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children'

The actor and comedian recalls a bizarre recent encounter with the Iron Lady, and how it prompted him to think about growing up under the most unlikely matriarch-figure imaginable

One Sunday recently while staying in London, I took a stroll in the gardens of Temple, the insular clod of quads and offices between the Strand and the Embankment. It's kind of a luxury rent-controlled ghetto for lawyers and barristers, and there is a beautiful tailors, a fine chapel, established by the Knights Templar (from which the compound takes its name), a twee cottage designed by Sir Christopher Wren and a rose garden; which I never promised you.

My mate John and I were wandering there together, he expertly proselytising on the architecture and the history of the place, me pretending to be Rumpole of the Bailey (quietly in my mind), when we spied in the distant garden a hunched and frail figure, in a raincoat, scarf about her head, watering the roses under the breezy supervision of a masticating copper. "What's going on there, mate?" John asked a nearby chippy loading his white van. "Maggie Thatcher," he said. "Comes here every week to water them flowers." The three of us watched as the gentle horticultural ritual was feebly enacted, then regarded the Iron Lady being helped into the back of a car and trundling off. In this moment she inspired only curiosity, a pale phantom, dumbly filling her day. None present eyed her meanly or spoke with vitriol and it wasn't until an hour later that I dreamt up an Ealing comedy-style caper in which two inept crooks kidnap Thatcher from the garden but are unable to cope with the demands of dealing with her, and finally give her back. This reverie only occurred when the car was out of view. In her diminished presence I stared like an amateur astronomer unable to describe my awe at this distant phenomenon.

When I was a kid, Thatcher was the headmistress of our country. Her voice, a bellicose yawn, somehow both boring and boring – I could ignore the content but the intent drilled its way in. She became leader of the Conservatives the year I was born and prime minister when I was four. She remained in power till I was 15. I am, it's safe to say, one of Thatcher's children. How then do I feel on the day of this matriarchal mourning?

I grew up in Essex with a single mum and a go-getter Dagenham dad. I don't know if they ever voted for her, I don't know if they liked her. My dad, I suspect, did. He had enough Del Boy about him to admire her coiffured virility – but in a way Thatcher was so omnipotent; so omnipresent, so omni-everything that all opinion was redundant.

As I scan the statements of my memory bank for early deposits (it'd be a kid's memory bank account at a neurological NatWest where you're encouraged to become a greedy little capitalist with an escalating family of porcelain pigs), I see her in her hairy helmet, condescending on Nationwide, eviscerating eunuch MPs and baffled BBC fuddy duddies with her General Zodd stare and coldly condemning the IRA. And the miners. And the single mums. The dockers. The poll-tax rioters. The Brixton rioters, the Argentinians, teachers; everyone actually.

Thinking about it now, when I was a child she was just a strict woman telling everyone off and selling everything off. I didn't know what to think of this fearsome woman.

Perhaps my early apathy and indifference are a result of what Thatcher deliberately engendered, the idea that "there is no such thing as society", that we are alone on our journey through life, solitary atoms of consciousness. Or perhaps it was just because I was a little kid and more interested in them Weetabix skinheads, Roland Rat and Knight Rider. Either way, I'm an adult now and none of those things are on telly any more so there's no excuse for apathy.

When John Lennon was told of Elvis Presley's death, he famously responded: "Elvis died when he joined the army," meaning of course, that his combat clothing and clipped hair signalled the demise of the thrusting, Dionysian revolution of which he was the immaculate emblem.

When I awoke today on LA time my phone was full of impertinent digital eulogies. It'd be disingenuous to omit that there were a fair number of ding-dong-style celebratory messages amidst the pensive reflections on the end of an era. Interestingly, one mate of mine, a proper leftie, in his heyday all Red Wedge and right-on punch-ups, was melancholy. "I thought I'd be overjoyed, but really it's just ... another one bites the dust ..." This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.

Perhaps, though, Thatcher "the monster" didn't die yesterday from a stroke, perhaps that Thatcher died as she sobbed self-pitying tears as she was driven, defeated, from Downing Street, ousted by her own party. By then, 1990, I was 15, adolescent and instinctively anti-establishment enough to regard her disdainfully. I'd unthinkingly imbibed enough doctrine to know that, troubled as I was, there was little point looking elsewhere for support. I was on my own. We are all on our own. Norman Tebbit, one of Thatcher's acolytes and fellow "Munsters evacuee", said when the National Union of Mineworkers eventually succumbed to the military onslaught and starvation over which she presided: "We didn't just break the strike, we broke the spell." The spell he was referring to is the unseen bond that connects us all and prevents us from being subjugated by tyranny. The spell of community.

Those strikes were confusing to me as a child. All of the Tory edicts that bludgeoned our nation, as my generation squirmed through ghoulish puberty, were confusing. When all the public amenities were flogged, the adverts made it seem to my childish eyes fun and positive, jaunty slogans and affable British stereotypes jostling about in villages, selling people companies that they'd already paid for through tax. I just now watched the British Gas one again. It's like a whimsical live-action episode of Postman Pat where his cat is craftily carved up and sold back to him.


"The News" was the pompous conduit through which we suckled at the barren baroness through newscaster wet-nurses, naturally; not direct from the steel teat. Jan Leeming, Sue Lawley, Moira Stuart – delivering doctrine with sterile sexiness, like a butterscotch-scented beige vapour. To use a less bizarre analogy: if Thatcher was the headmistress, they were junior teachers, authoritative but warm enough that you could call them "mum" by accident. You could never call Margaret Mother by mistake. For a national matriarch she is oddly unmaternal. I always felt a bit sorry for her biological children Mark and Carol, wondering from whom they would get their cuddles. "Thatcher as mother" seemed, to my tiddly mind, anathema. How could anyone who was so resolutely Margaret Thatcher be anything else? In the Meryl Streep film, The Iron Lady, it's the scenes of domesticity that appear most absurd. Knocking up a flan for Denis or helping Carol with her algebra or Mark with his gun-running, are jarring distractions from the main narrative; woman as warrior queen.

It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.

I have few recollections of Thatcher after the slowly chauffeured, weepy Downing Street cortege. I'd become a delinquent, living on heroin and benefit fraud.

There were sporadic resurrections. She would appear in public to drape a hankie over a model BA plane tailfin because she disliked the unpatriotic logo with which they'd replaced the union flag (maybe don't privatise BA then), or to shuffle about some country pile arm in arm with a doddery Pinochet and tell us all what a fine fellow he was. It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context. They're happy to share big windfall bonuses with their cronies, they'll stick up for deposed dictator chums when they're down on their luck, they'll find opportunities in business for people they care about. I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most. I know from my own indulgence in selfish behaviour that it's much easier to get what you want if you remove from consideration the effect your actions will have on others.

Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" – a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton – from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?

The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else. There are pangs of nostalgia, yes, because for me she's all tied up with Hi-De-Hi and Speak and Spell and Blockbusters and "follow the bear". What is more troubling is my inability to ascertain where my own selfishness ends and her neo-liberal inculcation begins. All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful. Perhaps there is resentment because the clemency and respect that are being mawkishly displayed now by some and haughtily demanded of the rest of us at the impending, solemn ceremonial funeral, are values that her government and policies sought to annihilate.

I can't articulate with the skill of either of "the Marks" – Steel or Thomas – why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship – it's just not British.

I do not yet know what effect Margaret Thatcher has had on me as an individual or on the character of our country as we continue to evolve. As a child she unnerved me but we are not children now and we are free to choose our own ethical codes and leaders that reflect them.

[Minder]

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236

Thatcher fact check - the Thatcher myths

Thatcher the milk snatcher

The nickname was coined by Labour in opposition and the press after the government abolished free school milk for over-sevens in 1970 when Margaret Thatcher was education secretary.



But according to her memoirs and archives, Lady Thatcher herself had argued in cabinet against getting rid of free milk altogether. It was a policy driven by the Treasury, first under Iain Macleod, then Anthony Barber.

So in Barber's first budget of October 1970, the policy was limited to children above the age of seven, and special schools and children with medical needs were excluded.

She was an arch-eurosceptic

It certainly wasn't always that way.

During the 1975 referendum on whether the UK should remain in the EEC, this was her opening gambit as she launched the Conservative campaign: "I welcome this opportunity to launch the Conservative campaign to keep Britain in Europe."

In 1978, while still in opposition, she called for consideration of a common European approach to defence, and criticised the Labour government for failing to sign up to the exchange rate mechanism.

In 1986, she signed the single European act, which set a deadline of 1992 for the full completion of the single market to allow the free movement of goods, capital and people within Europe.



She had, however, fought for Britain's position in Europe. In 1984, Thatcher threatened to stop payments to Europe unless the UK won its rebate – the "We want our money back" moment often misquoted as "I want my money back" .

Her position became more entrenched,culminating in the Bruges speech of 1988 in which she criticised an apparent "European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels".

She took a hard line with the IRA

Thatcher was known for her uncompromising position on the IRA and the Maze prison hunger strikers in 1981. Ten men – seven IRA and three Irish National Liberation Army members - died during a campaign to secure political status for republican prisoners. Thatcher refused to budge as the men starved themselves to death, one by one.

But files of cabinet discussions released under the 30-year rule reveal that she negotiated directly with the republican leadership in an apparent attempt to resolve the crisis, and she considered whether compulsory "intravenous feeding" could be used to keep prisoners alive.

Messages were sent between MI6 and the IRA, with details concessions on clothing, parcels and visits the government would offer if the strike was called off.

One note appeared to carry Thatcher's distinctive handwritten alterations. The following day, the Northern Ireland secretary, Humphrey Atkins, confirmed that she had approved the messages.

The economy boomed

Only for a while. In the late 1980s GDP growth was topping 5 per cent. But the Thatcher era was book-ended by two recessions, from 1980 to 1981 and from 1990 to 1991.

Annual GDP growth averages out at about 2.3 per cent over the whole of Baroness Thatcher's time in office compared to 2.5 per cent under Tony Blair.



She destroyed the welfare state

Wrong again.

Persistent high unemployment was part of the reason why total spending on benefits rose from £53bn in today's prices in 1979/80 to £77bn in 1990/91.

Public spending overall went up in cash terms every year under Lady Thatcher, generally keeping up with inflation. In 1982/83 the government was spending 48 per cent of GDP, more than in any year under Blair or Brown.

Spending had fallen dramatically as a share of GDP by the late 80s, but that was mainly because the economy grew quickly, not because spending was cut.

She cut taxes

No. She did lower taxes for the rich – lowering the top rate from 83 per cent to 60 then 40 per cent. But that was offset by a rise in VAT from 8 to 15 per cent.

Total tax and national insurance receipts as a percentage of GDP were actually slightly higher in 1989/90 than in 1979/80: 35 per cent rather than 33.7.

She destroyed manufacturing

The Thatcher era certainly saw de-industrialisation, but that process began before she became prime minister and accelerated under Blair and Brown.

Manufacturing output fell from 25 per cent of the economy in 1980 to 23 per cent in 1990.



The decline was much faster under Labour – manufacturing fell from 17 per cent of the economy to just 11 per cent between 2000 and 2010.

Most advanced economies have experienced a similar decline in manufacturing as a share of GDP.

The poor got poorer

It depends what you mean by "poor".

The gap between rich and poor certainly got wider. Relative poverty and earnings inequality went up under Lady Thatcher.



That doesn't mean the poor actually lost money, it's just that the top earners did considerably better - a point Lady Thatcher made forcefully in her last appearance at the Commons dispatch box.



Median earnings went up faster than under John Major or in Labour's second and third terms, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.



And while wages among the very lowest earners didn't increase as fast as the top earners, they did go up too, according to Treasury data.

Of course we have to remember your wages could only go up if you had a job. Unemployment reached 3.2 million in 1984, a rate of 11.8 per cent – both record highs.

[stew]

I (and many others on this board) found it more than a little distasteful when Americans turned out en masse to celebrate the death of bin Laden at the gates of the White House. No doubt to Stew that makes me an al-Qaeda sympathiser or something. I'll shed no tears for the hoor and have no sympathy, but reveling in Thatcher's ultimate demise the way some are on here makes my stomach turn.

That's a bit unfair Gallsman, I would not have done what Americans did that night but I understood the sentiment and was delighted they blew the fcukers head off.

With thatcher the deal is different in that she was a decrepit old bitch that was found out for what she was, her beloved party dumped her and she lived long enough to know she was reviled by many, if not most in her country, that said, enough time had passed for me that when I got the news I had strange feelings on the matter.

She lived into her dotage and she ruined many peoples lives with abandon, not least the Hunger Strikers, she leaves a legacy that is as divisive as she herself was as a leader.

I am going to think nothing of her from her funeral on because she is nothing and was nothing for nigh on thirty years and yes, I wished at the time the Ra had got the aul cnut when they blew the shite out of that hotel in Brighton.

[bennydorano]

Nice one

@WelshIrvine Minute's silence held b4 jags game in memory of miners, Dockers, shipyard workers, car plant workers, & Hillsborough victims." -- Dougie Mccann, (@scots_wa_hey)

[Declan]

Powerful stuff from Glendale Jackson yesterday
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=IE#/watch?feature=g-logo-xit&v=XDtClJYJBj8

[trileacman]

"I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies."

Great quote.

[magpie seanie]

"I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies."

Great quote.

In a lots of way Russell Brand annoys the shite out of me but he is a talented man especially with his use of words.

[stew]

"I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies."

Great quote.

In a lots of way Russell Brand annoys the shite out of me but he is a talented man especially with his use of words.

100% correct Seanie, he annoys the shite out of me too however I might have to look at him differently with efforts like that!

[Eamonnca1]

Was just thinking that myself. Brand seems to have a talent as a writer. Who knew?

[give her dixie]

http://www.impartialreporter.com/news/roundup/articles/2013/04/11/400511-exclusive-gerry-adams-i-can-forgive-thatcher-/

EXCLUSIVE: Gerry Adams: I can forgive Thatcher

SINN Fein President Gerry Adams who spoke so critically of Margaret Thatcher following her death this week has told The Impartial Reporter that he forgives the former British Prime Minister.

On Monday, just hours after her death, Mr Adams hit out at Baroness Thatcher for the way in which she dealt with republican prisoners such as Bobby Sands, who was elected Fermanagh and South Tyrone MP in 1981 while on hunger strike.

"Her failed efforts to criminalise the republican struggle and the political prisoners is part of her legacy," he said.

Mr Sands made a number of demands on behalf of republican prisoners but Mrs Thatcher refused to meet them, saying: "Crime is crime, not political."

On May 5, Mr Sands died after 66 days on hunger strike.

At the time, Mrs Thatcher said: "He chose to take his own life; it was a choice that his organisation did not allow to many of its victims."

Speaking to this newspaper yesterday - on the 15th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement -- Mr Adams said Bobby Sands had shown "bravery, unselfishness and sure courage" during the hunker strike.

The Sinn Fein President said he was was "very philosophical" about Mrs Thatcher's death and despite standing by his earlier comments, he said he could "forgive" her.

"It isn't up to me to forgive her for what she did to the prisoners; that's up to them and their families. I can forgive her, because I think we have to be about forgiveness. I can forgive her for anything that was done to me under her rule and I don't have any problem with that - I actually believe in forgiveness. I just know as an individual; hatred or failure to forgive is most corrosive to the person involved as opposed to the perpetrator who mightn't even be conscious of what you are thinking about him or her."

He added: "We Irish are very forgiving people, we don't speak ill of the death."

And he criticised those involved in "Thatcher parties", celebrating her death.

"I think it is demeaning to celebrate anyone's death. It might be understandable at a certain level, but that doesn't say whether it should be encouraged or not encouraged."

Mr Adams said his thoughts were with Mrs Thatcher's family: "As one would with anybody who suffers a bereavement, I would feel it for her children and any other family members, because few people are one dimensional so one presumes as a grandmother or great grandmother, or mother, that the grieving process is the same for every single person, no matter the reputation or historical legacy."

Reacting to Mrs Thatcher's death on Monday, Mr Adams told reporters that the former Prime Minister had caused "great hurt to the Irish and British people."

"Here in Ireland her espousal of old draconian militaristic policies prolonged the war and caused great suffering," he said.

Yesterday, Mr Adams reiterated those views, telling this newspaper: "I think her position was quite shameful."

His earlier comments have sparked anger, with Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA Arlene Foster saying: "On the day that somebody has died it is really quite disgraceful that they should use it to score political points."

"The reality is that Margaret Thatcher wasn't afraid to stand up to terrorists which is why we have this outburst today. I can't say I am surprised because that's the sort of people you are dealing with. She did what was right at the time."

"She is someone who stood firm and showed that politics wasn't just for the male of the species. She had a presence in all aspects of politics when I was growing up and in many ways she was an inspiration."

Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott said Baroness Thatcher "had a very strong political viewpoint and wasn't afraid to remain firm."

In relation to the comments by Mr Adams, Mr Elliott responded: "It highlights the venom that is being pushed from republicans -- she was their Prime Minister whether they liked it or not. Margaret Thatcher didn't starve Bobby Sands to death, he chose to do that himself. She didn't treat him any different to any other criminal."

But yesterday Mr Adams rejected the criticism he received from the Fermanagh politicians.

"I think it is a bit rich. I am giving an opinion. I am very conscious that this was another human being, I am very conscious that she had her own family, very conscious that she was a formidable figure, I think my statement was quite measured."

Asked if he thought it was appropriate to make sure comments so soon after Mrs Thatcher's death, Mr Adams said: "Of course it was, of course it was - the media can't have it both ways. The media can't look for comments, then raise issues around the comments."

Asked for his reaction, Sinn Fein MLA Phil Flanagan said: "I fully agree with Gerry's thoughts on the matter."

He said: "The people of Fermanagh and South Tyrone sent a very clear message to Margaret Thatcher with the election of Bobby Sands MP 32 years ago. That election and that message will remain to the fore in her legacy in the eyes of the people of this constituency."

[give her dixie]

Mark Steel: You can't just shut us up now that Margaret Thatcher's dead


Maybe a more modern way of broadcasting the news would have been for Davina McCall to announce it, saying: "She's gone, but let's have a look at some of her best bits." Then we could see her denouncing Nelson Mandela as a terrorist and befriending General Pinochet.
Instead it began as expected, with the Hurds, Howes and Archers phoning in their "remarkables" and "historics", and we were reminded how she brought down the Berlin Wall and rescued Britain, then an article in The Times claimed she was responsible for ending apartheid, and it seemed by today we'd be hearing she stopped Gibraltar being invaded by Daleks and made  our goldfish feel proud to be British and took  8 for 35 against Australia to win the Ashes.

"Even those who disagreed with her, respected her as a conviction politician", it was said many times, as if everyone would participate in the mourning. But soon it was impossible to pretend there was a respectful consensus, not because of the odd party in the street, but from a widespread and considered contempt. In many areas it must have been confusing for Jehovah's Witnesses, as every time they knocked on a door and asked, "Have you heard the good news", they'd be told "Yes mate, I have, do you want to come in for a beer?"

Before long came the complaints, such as Tony Blair saying: "Even if you disagree with someone very strongly, at the moment of their passing you should show some respect." Presumably then, when Bin Laden was killed, Blair's statement was: "Although I didn't agree with Osama's policies, he was a conviction terrorist, a colourful character whose short films were not only fun but educational as well. He will be sadly missed."

The disrespect was inevitable, as millions were opposed to her not because they disagreed with her, but because she'd helped to ruin their lives. If someone robs your house, you don't say: "I disagreed with the burglar's policy, of tying me to a chair with gaffer tape and stripping the place bare, even taking the pickled onions, which I consider to be divisive. But I did admire his convictions."

For example, a Chilean woman living in Britain was quoted in The Nation magazine, saying: "The Thatcher government directly supported Pinochet's murderous regime, financially, via military support, even military training. Members of my family were tortured and murdered under Pinochet, who was one of Thatcher's closest allies and friend. Those of us celebrating are the ones who suffered deeply." Yes, but she was able to buy shares in British Gas so she was better off in other ways. In so many areas, the party that insists we show compassion for their departed heroine made a virtue of showing none when she was their leader. She didn't just create unemployment, she gloried in it. Her supporters in the City revelled in their unearned wealth all the more because they could jeer at those with nothing.

But this week Thatcher fans have been unrestrained in their abuse for anyone not displaying "compassion". Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they've just discovered it. They're all going to the doctors saying: "I've been getting this strange sort of caring feeling towards someone who isn't me. Do I need antibiotics?" If they're puzzled as to why there isn't universal sadness this week, maybe they should visit Corby. It's a town that was built in the 1930s, entirely round a steelworks, and thousands of unemployed Scots moved there for the work. As a result its people still have a strong Scottish accent, even though it's in Northamptonshire.

But in 1980 Margaret Thatcher's government shut down most of the steel industry, as part of her plan to break the unions, and the effect on Corby was like someone taking control of the Lake District and concreting in the lakes.

I was there to record a radio show about the town, and met Don and Irene, both in their seventies, at the Grampian Club. Don's father had walked to Corby from Larkhall, near Glasgow, in 1932. I mentioned the steel strike and plant closure to Don, but he gestured as if it had somehow passed him by. It would have to be mentioned in the show, so I tried to find someone in the town with a story, an anecdote, something. But no one wanted to say a thing about it. During the recording, I asked if anyone had a story to tell from those days, but no one did, until it felt as if the whole audience collectively passed a motion that went: "I think you'd best move on to another subject, Mark."

Afterwards in the bar, Irene told me: "We weren't being rude, love, when we didn't have a lot to say about the closure. But it wasn't an easy time. Don marched from Corby to London with a banner. It made him angry about everything, we split up for a year because it was too much to live with. But we were lucky, two of our closest friends committed suicide in the months after the closure. So people would rather forget about those times really. But apart from that we really enjoyed the show."

Still, even those who disagree with her policies, will surely commend her achievements.

Strangely, it's now her supporters who are insulting her memory, with a funeral paid for by the taxpayer. Surely it would be more fitting to leave her where she is, and say: "If you can't stand on your own two feet, you can't expect help from the state."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mark-steel-you-cant-just-shut-us-up-now-that-margaret-thatchers-dead-8568785.html

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

[T Fearon]

Now that Gerry Adams has officially pardoned her,surely that should be the end of the matter.