Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[AustinPowers]

We have the Southerners complaining that their own stadiums aren't getting enough and why Belfast.
We have the sh1t show of Stormont who couldn't agree on the colour of their sh1te

There's more but just pissed off typing this up...

All generalisations are dangerous. Have long said Dublin should fund a top class GAA stadium in our second city, not just for Ulster, but a place they should be looking to host big games like league finals, All-Ireland qtr finals. It's also putting a stamp in the ground to protect Irish culture. Every province should have a top class modern stadium. Harris should have the balls to do that now and hopefully stop the we'll be consulting with the UK gov on a way forward. Wouldn't it be great if the Ulster final was hosted there in 2027/28. It would soften some coughs. The money is there. Doesn't even need to tap into the Apple windfall.

I don't buy that. All  teams will want to play those types of  games in Croke Park, even if that means more expense,  further travel, overnight stays etc , for teams,  and  for fans too.

Let's  take this year as an example, Belfast would be  roughly similar distances for Donegal and Louth in the QF. Would both  teams have  given up their match in Croke Park , and the experience/familiarity  that goes with that , to play it in Belfast? While the  6 teams in the other three QFs got to  play in  Croke Park? I seriously doubt it. Same goes for NFL finals

[RadioGAAGAA]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

[NAG1]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

[johnnycool]

Mr Lyons is now going full on looking special dispensation from UEFA to allow Windsor Park to host a game in 2028.

They've no shame whatsoever.

[Taylor]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

[NAG1]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

Yeah that's the point.

A significant multi purpose building such as the one designed would have income streams built in and wouldn't be the financial burden that the poster above was referring too. (If run properly of course)

[Spike]

It has been a staggering process of ineptitude and no party covers themselves in any glory from this process.  And while the finger pointing of blame game goes on Antrim Gaels are still without Casement Park.

This has went on so long there has to have been Plan As and Bs.  If the stadium as currently designed isnt financially viable then what is? Phased Construction?  2 Grandstands only?  a horseshoe style?  No conferencing or executive boxes option?

i haven't seen what state the pitch and concrete terraces are currently in but a year ago it looked as though as a minimum the old grandstand needed replaced and the terraces replaced in places and the ground could have been opened again. the pitch work can still start now but don't know how much demolition took place to the terraces.

but commit to a vision and viable cost model that  works or work with what money we are guaranteed, but someone needs to start something.  enough people with brains have been looking at this for long enough

[Simon OParlon]

It has been a staggering process of ineptitude and no party covers themselves in any glory from this process.  And while the finger pointing of blame game goes on Antrim Gaels are still without Casement Park.

This has went on so long there has to have been Plan As and Bs.  If the stadium as currently designed isnt financially unviable then what is? Phased Construction?  2 Grandstands only?  a horseshoe style?  No conferencing or executive boxes option?

i haven't seen what state the pitch and concrete terraces are currently in but a year ago it looked as though as a minimum the old grandstand needed replaced and the terraces replaced in places and the ground could have been opened again. the pitch work can still start now but don't know how much demolition took place to the terraces.

but commit to a vision and viable cost model that  works or work with what money we are guaranteed, but someone needs to start something.  enough people with brains have been looking at this for long enough

I saw a few pics of the pitch at Casement not long ago. It looks bad but it would be easily fixed.

[twohands!!!]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

Yeah that's the point.

A significant multi purpose building such as the one designed would have income streams built in and wouldn't be the financial burden that the poster above was referring too. (If run properly of course)

This was the exact stuff that was said about Pairc Ui Chaoimh - that events and concerts would magically ensure it made a profit year-in year-out.

Since it reopened in 2017 Pairc ui Chaoimh only made a profit in one year - and that was a year when they managed to hold a load of concerts there. Every other year the stadium as a business has made a loss. So 6 years of losses and 1 year of profit. Someone I know from Cork told me a while back the stadium had lost over €10 million since it reopened. So instead of generating profits to pay off debts on the stadium, it has added an extra €10 million to the total debt Cork GAA have.

Way way too many people are just assuming that a stadium will automatically make money - this is clearly not the case. Also way too many people are assuming that Casement will be similar to Croke Park in terms of earning opportunities in terms of concerts and events when Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a much closer fit in terms of not being the main stadium in the capital city.

[NAG1]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

Yeah that's the point.

A significant multi purpose building such as the one designed would have income streams built in and wouldn't be the financial burden that the poster above was referring too. (If run properly of course)

This was the exact stuff that was said about Pairc Ui Chaoimh - that events and concerts would magically ensure it made a profit year-in year-out.

Since it reopened in 2017 Pairc ui Chaoimh only made a profit in one year - and that was a year when they managed to hold a load of concerts there. Every other year the stadium as a business has made a loss. So 6 years of losses and 1 year of profit. Someone I know from Cork told me a while back the stadium had lost over €10 million since it reopened. So instead of generating profits to pay off debts on the stadium, it has added an extra €10 million to the total debt Cork GAA have.

Way way too many people are just assuming that a stadium will automatically make money - this is clearly not the case. Also way too many people are assuming that Casement will be similar to Croke Park in terms of earning opportunities in terms of concerts and events when Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a much closer fit in terms of not being the main stadium in the capital city.

At no stage was I saying it would automatically arrive. Hence my comment about being properly run.

But I do also think we are talking about 2 differing cities between Belfast and Cork.

[twohands!!!]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

Yeah that's the point.

A significant multi purpose building such as the one designed would have income streams built in and wouldn't be the financial burden that the poster above was referring too. (If run properly of course)

This was the exact stuff that was said about Pairc Ui Chaoimh - that events and concerts would magically ensure it made a profit year-in year-out.

Since it reopened in 2017 Pairc ui Chaoimh only made a profit in one year - and that was a year when they managed to hold a load of concerts there. Every other year the stadium as a business has made a loss. So 6 years of losses and 1 year of profit. Someone I know from Cork told me a while back the stadium had lost over €10 million since it reopened. So instead of generating profits to pay off debts on the stadium, it has added an extra €10 million to the total debt Cork GAA have.

Way way too many people are just assuming that a stadium will automatically make money - this is clearly not the case. Also way too many people are assuming that Casement will be similar to Croke Park in terms of earning opportunities in terms of concerts and events when Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a much closer fit in terms of not being the main stadium in the capital city.

At no stage was I saying it would automatically arrive. Hence my comment about being properly run.

But I do also think we are talking about 2 differing cities between Belfast and Cork.

Of course there are differences between Cork and Belfast.

However my point was that Casement is a lot more similar to Pairc Ui Chaoimh than Croke Park in terms of matches, concerts, and events which would be key drivers of income.

Also making the assumption that the stadium will be properly run, given the track record of those involved in the project seems wildly over-optimistic bordering on delusional. There's little to nothing to suggest competence and a lot of evidence to suggest poor judgement, lack of planning and a lack of basic competency all around the project.


Based on how you look at the evidence so far the individuals responsible for the Pairc Ui Chaoimh project could claim they are more capable/able than the individuals involved in the Casement project (not that that is saying all that much) in that they actually did get a PuC built in a time-frame that didn't fall under the heading of total embarrassment even if it was massively overbudget and was built with way too much capacity.


My main point that needs hammering home to everyone involved in the project is that just assuming new stadium = automatic profits is utter stupidity given the evidence of Pairc Ui Chaoimh which is not that dissimilar in terms of the likely games, concerts and events it would be able to attract to make money.

[Armaghtothebone]

The short sightedness of those celebrating this decision is extraordinary.

Is it?

Or rather, is it the understanding the ongoing maintenance burden would place on the Ulster Council?

Looking at the 2024 annual report here, and the expenses for Croke in year ending 30th Sept 2023 (page 194/195) were in around €16 million.

Some of those will be dependent on numbers of games played, and some will be independent of it.
Could probably approximate half of it as being independent of times the stadium was open, or €8 million.

Croke is 80k, Casement 30k - factored down for size that is €3 million a year. Just to keep the place right.

Even if we accepted Croke would have a higher proportion of business seats/exec boxes etc, your still likely looking at over €1m a year.

That is untenable for the Ulster Council!

So you run one large scale event to cover the running costs.

Not that difficult, the opportunity that it would bring to city and the region is massive and is now a massive loss. It wasn't just for matches and for concerts here and there, it was designed to be a conferencing centre etc so there were income streams built into the process all through.

It wouldn't be down to Ulster Council solely either.

Once it is built it can still hold conferences/concerts etc?

Yeah that's the point.

A significant multi purpose building such as the one designed would have income streams built in and wouldn't be the financial burden that the poster above was referring too. (If run properly of course)

This was the exact stuff that was said about Pairc Ui Chaoimh - that events and concerts would magically ensure it made a profit year-in year-out.

Since it reopened in 2017 Pairc ui Chaoimh only made a profit in one year - and that was a year when they managed to hold a load of concerts there. Every other year the stadium as a business has made a loss. So 6 years of losses and 1 year of profit. Someone I know from Cork told me a while back the stadium had lost over €10 million since it reopened. So instead of generating profits to pay off debts on the stadium, it has added an extra €10 million to the total debt Cork GAA have.

Way way too many people are just assuming that a stadium will automatically make money - this is clearly not the case. Also way too many people are assuming that Casement will be similar to Croke Park in terms of earning opportunities in terms of concerts and events when Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a much closer fit in terms of not being the main stadium in the capital city.

At no stage was I saying it would automatically arrive. Hence my comment about being properly run.

But I do also think we are talking about 2 differing cities between Belfast and Cork.

Of course there are differences between Cork and Belfast.

However my point was that Casement is a lot more similar to Pairc Ui Chaoimh than Croke Park in terms of matches, concerts, and events which would be key drivers of income.

Also making the assumption that the stadium will be properly run, given the track record of those involved in the project seems wildly over-optimistic bordering on delusional. There's little to nothing to suggest competence and a lot of evidence to suggest poor judgement, lack of planning and a lack of basic competency all around the project.


Based on how you look at the evidence so far the individuals responsible for the Pairc Ui Chaoimh project could claim they are more capable/able than the individuals involved in the Casement project (not that that is saying all that much) in that they actually did get a PuC built in a time-frame that didn't fall under the heading of total embarrassment even if it was massively overbudget and was built with way too much capacity.


My main point that needs hammering home to everyone involved in the project is that just assuming new stadium = automatic profits is utter stupidity given the evidence of Pairc Ui Chaoimh which is not that dissimilar in terms of the likely games, concerts and events it would be able to attract to make money.

I'll quite happily pay an extra 10 euro for my tickets if I don't have to go the absolute shithole that is Clones.

[general_lee]

Do all major infrastructure projects have to be immediate money-spinners or does the bigger picture not feature at all?

[johnnycool]

Do all major infrastructure projects have to be immediate money-spinners or does the bigger picture not feature at all?

You also have to view the project through orange or green filtered glasses..

Orange filtered glasses would see a bridge to scotland as a pure necessity and stimulate growth, but see nothing of value in building a world class stadium in their capital city as it would belong to themmuns.

Green glasses would be the total opposites and hence why we can't have nice things.

Anyone for a bridge over Strangford Lough?

[mayo.mick]

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
·
1h
NEW: Sports minister Thomas Byrne says Ireland will be hoping to have Casement Park's Euro 2028 games refixed for either Croke Park or Páirc Uí Chaoímh. FF says they will fight 'tooth and nail' to ensure as many of the games remain on the island.
@VMSportIE
 
@VirginMediaNews

https://x.com/gavreilly/status/1836023754889027789