Claudy report to be published by Ombudsman

[updown9194]

Bit of a joke for the RUC to think they had to keep the Catholic Church sweet and on the side of "moderate nationalism" by allowing Conway to get Chesney offside ... what were the chances of the Catholic Church supporting "militant nationalism", considering its record of spinelessness during the struggle for independence?  People shouldn't be surprised by the church's actions ... these are the same boyos who helped Nazi war criminals escape after the war and blessed the murderous deeds of any number of South American dictators over the years

Think you'll find it was Sean Russell and the IRA who were helping the Nazis. 

So, let me get this right Mr Myers, are you telling me the Catholic Church didn't help Nazi war criminals escape after the war, it was Sean Russell and the IRA?  While we're on the subject of your favourite subject, i.e moving away from the subject to suit your own agenda, what's your stance on the Duke of Hamilton and Edward VIII?

1. The Catholic Church did indeed assist Nazi war criminals after the war.
2. Members of the British Royal family and establishment were indeed Nazi sympathisers.
Any more really tricky questions you'd like me to answer?
None of which, btw, excuses the fact that it was Sean Russell and his fellow Irish patriots (sic) in the IRA who actively collaborated with the Germans.

"I am not a Nazi. I am not even Pro German. I am an Irishman fighting for the independence of Ireland. The British have been our Enemies for hundreds of years. They are the enemy of Germany today. If it suits Germany to give us help to achieve independence, I am willing to accept it, but no more, and there must be no strings attached."--the sentiments of Sean Russell, your supposed Nazi.

Russell and Frank Ryan were both 'co-operating' with the Nazis, but were both obviously fearful of a potential invasion of Ireland by British Forces and used the Republican maxim of 'England's difficulty'. They did not collaborate with the 'Final Solution', and indeed the general population of Europe had no idea about the extent of it until 1945--Russell hardly can be considered a bonafide Nazi; Frank Ryan even less so. Individual church member's positions were less clear, and in any case it isn't too difficult to realise that the IRA had not anything resembling the general influence of the Catholic Church within Germany or Ireland. Russell may have been aware of Nazi Germany's 'position' on Jews but given that he died in 1940 it is somewhat churlish to suggest that he was either cognisant of a desire on Adolf's part to enact the system of destruction which he did or, indeed, the full extent of that enaction.

Unless you're going to properly review your sources, do not attempt amateur and anachronistic historiography in future.

[red hander]

'Unless you're going to properly review your sources, do not attempt amateur and anachronistic historiography in future'

Too late for that stibhan ... just read ANY of his previous posts

[updown9194]

For historiography, read 'history'. Too much doggerel in my head.

[Myles Na G.]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English. Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island. Who would Russell have run to for help then? Like all Irish republicans, he was incapable of viewing things with anything other than a Little Irelander mentality. He was prepared to act immorally in order to further his Little Irelander cause, just like those who bombed and murdered their fellow country men and women decades after his death, just like Fr James Chesney. All your big words can't put a gloss on that.

[Myles Na G.]

For historiography, read 'history'. Too much doggerel in my head.

Too many wee sweetie mice in your head.

[mylestheslasher]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English. Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island. Who would Russell have run to for help then? Like all Irish republicans, he was incapable of viewing things with anything other than a Little Irelander mentality. He was prepared to act immorally in order to further his Little Irelander cause, just like those who bombed and murdered their fellow country men and women decades after his death, just like Fr James Chesney. All your big words can't put a gloss on that.

Do you hold all governments to these high standards. I mean loads of them out there are doing trade deals with any amount of dictatorships, selling them weapons etc etc.

[Rossfan]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English.

So do you believe the same about the Finns a too as they fought against their ancient enemy the Russians/Soviets at the same time the Nazis were foghting against them.

P S why the commas around enemies?

[mc_grens]

Can someone explain to me if this priest has been found guilty or even likely to be the culpable for the Claudy bombs? Whether he was or wasn't, it's clear that the church did nothing to act upon this until pressed by the RUC, who were perhaps better placed arresting the man rather than hiding him.

The priest died 20 odd years ago. It is extremely common knowledge at this stage in the Claudy area who exactly was cuplable for the Claudy bombings. The fact that he was involved is beyond argument at this stage.

[red hander]

'Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island'

Aye, and if your grannie had balls she would be your granda ... any historian with a titter of wit knows the Nazis had NO chance of invading Britain, let alone Ireland, but you're no historian and you haven't any wit.

The British behaved like facists in their empire and the way they treated their 'subject' people was no different than the Nazis.  Holocaust I hear you say ... why don't you read up on your country's history around the period 1841-1849, if you can read...

[Myles Na G.]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English. Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island. Who would Russell have run to for help then? Like all Irish republicans, he was incapable of viewing things with anything other than a Little Irelander mentality. He was prepared to act immorally in order to further his Little Irelander cause, just like those who bombed and murdered their fellow country men and women decades after his death, just like Fr James Chesney. All your big words can't put a gloss on that.

Do you hold all governments to these high standards. I mean loads of them out there are doing trade deals with any amount of dictatorships, selling them weapons etc etc.

If I'd wanted to talk about governments, I'd have mentioned De Valera and his conduct during the war. I was talking about the IRA, a bunch of murderous intellectual pygmies (sorry, pygmies) hell bent on creating Little Ireland.

[updown9194]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English. Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island. Who would Russell have run to for help then? Like all Irish republicans, he was incapable of viewing things with anything other than a Little Irelander mentality. He was prepared to act immorally in order to further his Little Irelander cause, just like those who bombed and murdered their fellow country men and women decades after his death, just like Fr James Chesney. All your big words can't put a gloss on that.

They were prepared to side with 'one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen' against 'one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen'. Documents released in recent months have no bearing upon the moral or political actions of a man with no cognisance of those documents. Russell was undoubtedly short-sighted and wholly wrong in his decision to pursue a link with Nazi Germany, but to suggest that he knew the full extent of the Nazi's regime is incorrect, and the fact that he died in 1940 does spare him complicity with the greatest of the Nazi's crimes and the enduring act(s) of their legacy. De Valera, Churchill and even Roosevelt all acted 'immorally' during the war to protect their own countries--this is the general attitude of leaders in wartime, not the sole preserve of your pantheon of supposed republican/Nazi/'Little Irelander' lunatics.

My 'big' words aren't trying to put a gloss on anything, and at no stage have I attempted to do so with either the Provisional IRA or Chesney. As for the priest in question, the enduring legacy of this report is not necessarily the guilt which he possessed for the bombings but the lack of a proper investigation into his guilt. There is no credible evidence save what seems a very vague body of British intelligence which suggests his seniority in the Provisionals.

That lack of evidence is the result of the cover-up by all three organisations. Which isn't to condemn the initial act--the people with the most culpability are obviously those who planted the bomb, and I'm in agreement with Sinn Fein that a truth/reconciliation commission is probably the only way in which the truth will be ascertained.

[Myles Na G.]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English.

So do you believe the same about the Finns a too as they fought against their ancient enemy the Russians/Soviets at the same time the Nazis were foghting against them.

P S why the commas around enemies?

Russia invaded Finland in 1939. Operation Barbarossa didn't start until half way through 1941. Your comparison is plain daft.

Not all Irish people regarded - or regard - England as their enemy. Many millions of Irish have chosen to live there down through the decades, many hundreds of thousands have chosen to serve in the ranks of British forces - far, far more than ever chose to be in one of the IRA's murder gangs.

[Myles Na G.]

Russell and his fellow travellers in the IRA sought aid from the Nazis at a time when the Nazis were occupying most of Europe and attempting to invade Britain. The fact that he died in 1940 doesn't spare him and his friends from the judgement that they were prepared to side with one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen, in order to strike a blow against their 'enemies' the English. Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island. Who would Russell have run to for help then? Like all Irish republicans, he was incapable of viewing things with anything other than a Little Irelander mentality. He was prepared to act immorally in order to further his Little Irelander cause, just like those who bombed and murdered their fellow country men and women decades after his death, just like Fr James Chesney. All your big words can't put a gloss on that.

They were prepared to side with 'one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen' against 'one of the greatest tyrannies the world had ever seen'. Documents released in recent months have no bearing upon the moral or political actions of a man with no cognisance of those documents. Russell was undoubtedly short-sighted and wholly wrong in his decision to pursue a link with Nazi Germany, but to suggest that he knew the full extent of the Nazi's regime is incorrect, and the fact that he died in 1940 does spare him complicity with the greatest of the Nazi's crimes and the enduring act(s) of their legacy. De Valera, Churchill and even Roosevelt all acted 'immorally' during the war to protect their own countries--this is the general attitude of leaders in wartime, not the sole preserve of your pantheon of supposed republican/Nazi/'Little Irelander' lunatics.

My 'big' words aren't trying to put a gloss on anything, and at no stage have I attempted to do so with either the Provisional IRA or Chesney. As for the priest in question, the enduring legacy of this report is not necessarily the guilt which he possessed for the bombings but the lack of a proper investigation into his guilt. There is no credible evidence save what seems a very vague body of British intelligence which suggests his seniority in the Provisionals.

That lack of evidence is the result of the cover-up by all three organisations. Which isn't to condemn the initial act--the people with the most culpability are obviously those who planted the bomb, and I'm in agreement with Sinn Fein that a truth/reconciliation commission is probably the only way in which the truth will be ascertained.

He knew that the Germans had invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, etc etc. What do you think he thought about that? And your point about 'leaders' is irrelevant, since neither Russell or any other IRA man at that time had the right to claim that mantle.

[Myles Na G.]

'Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island'

Aye, and if your grannie had balls she would be your granda ... any historian with a titter of wit knows the Nazis had NO chance of invading Britain, let alone Ireland, but you're no historian and you haven't any wit.

The British behaved like facists in their empire and the way they treated their 'subject' people was no different than the Nazis.  Holocaust I hear you say ... why don't you read up on your country's history around the period 1841-1849, if you can read...

Many distinguished historians would have a different opinion. I look forward to reading your book in which you carefully dismantle their research and put forward a completely new perspective on the 2nd world war.

[red hander]

'Yet documents released in recent months show that the Germans already had detailed plans to invade this island'

Aye, and if your grannie had balls she would be your granda ... any historian with a titter of wit knows the Nazis had NO chance of invading Britain, let alone Ireland, but you're no historian and you haven't any wit.

The British behaved like facists in their empire and the way they treated their 'subject' people was no different than the Nazis.  Holocaust I hear you say ... why don't you read up on your country's history around the period 1841-1849, if you can read...

Many distinguished historians would have a different opinion. I look forward to reading your book in which you carefully dismantle their research and put forward a completely new perspective on the 2nd world war.

Hitler was NEVER keen on invading ... he wanted a negotiated agreement, something he was led to believe was possible with the feedback his agents were getting from the British establishment/royal flunkies, who by the very fact they were expressing their pro-Nazi views were actually committing treason ... how many of those c***ts were hanged by your beloved British?. 

And re: De Valera, if the British were so pissed off about his 'conduct' during the war then why did Churchill offer him the six countiies on a plate (f**k the loyal Ulster Prods) after the war if he allowed the royal navy back into the treaty ports to take on the submarine threat?  Your blindness to the atrocities perpetrated over 800 years in Ireland by your beloved British is as pathetic as your hatred of the Irish people who were brave enough over those 800 years to stand up to those atrocities.

PS, I told you, don't forget the wee winking smiley ... its absence seriously damages your gravitas