Longford v Mayo 26th June

[Donnellys Hollow]

I think McGeeney more or less admitted after the Louth match that Kildare had got their preparation all wrong.

[The Konica]

It's a very simple point which you're still not grasping ...

Jack O'Connor has done it.
Repeatedly.

You say you know more and yet can't or won't give any proof.

Who are people going to believe? A proven All Ireland winning manager with a track record or a fantasist?

It is you who can't grasp the simple point. Jack claimed that both Dublin and Mayo peaked too early and the only reason he seemed to have for this claim is that both did well in the league but had performed poorly in the championship. I disagreed with this and pointed out that other teams, i.e. Cork, Sligo, Limerick, Wexford, Monaghan etc. who had done well in the league and had put a good effort into it had also perofrmed well in the championship. So Jack was either 'yerraing' or he was wrong.

You then suggested that because Jack has won AI's that he must be right and any poster here must be wrong. I then pointed out that I have a good deal of knowledge and experience in this area and would know what I was talking about, you then assume that this can't be true as apparently a poster having some experience of professional sport is akin to claiming you walked on the moon. I can't prove what I have done as I'm not going to post personal information about myself and giving a list of coaches and athletes I've worked with would prove nothing anyway as you wouldn't know if I had or not.

I've never lied on this forum about anything I have done, if doing some work in professional sport is such a fantastical concept to you that anyone claiming to have done it must be lying well then you must live a sheltered life.

I've supported my view that teh Dublin and Mayo footballers didn't peak with a logical argument all you have is that Jack said it so it must be true. I'd say many posters here would be of a similar opinion to myself and moysider as most of them can think for themselves.

Just as I thought ..

The internet is like the pubs full of people who claim Jack O'Connor (or manager X) 'know nothing about peaking' and are talking 'nonsense' about it and that they ' have a good deal of knowledge and experience' in peaking and could do better or have done better.

Like I said before who are people going to believe? A proven All Ireland winning manager with a track record or a fantasist?


At this stage it's rhetorical, don't bother to waste another post with waffle, unless you can back it up.

[AZOffaly]

Konica,

Do you accept that
a) There are people who know more about Jack O'Connor about the science of 'peaking' and periodised training, in a professional capacity?

b) That some of these people might also be interested in the GAA and some might even post here?

c) That Jack realises that other people know more than him and therefore uses them in his preparation of Kerry?


A nothing article in a newspaper in June is not a true reflection of what Jack O'Connor thinks about peaking or anything else. Why in the name of God would he care about them peaking. (PS if Dublin's form in the league constitutes a peak then God help them).

Finally, I've had similar discussions with Zulu before, and I've come to the conclusion that professionals in the field shouldn't try to debate with people who use terms like peaking (which means 'going well') in a GAA context

[Logan]

Just after coming on this thread late-ish 

Zulu -
From what I've read I don't think Konica's point is about peaking per se - rather that you see yourself able to criticize a manager who has produced results.
He has a point. Unless you're Mickey Harte of course.

Dinny -
I'm not surprised by the Kildare failure to be honest. I know some of the things they did and the philosophies behind them and it's no surprise they bombed they how they did. I just surprised they didn't spot it earlier or hadn't the experience to spot it earlier. Mind you, I think peaking is far from the only issue they have.

And 'Peaking' a team for a game is very possible.
While it's complex and not straightforward, it's very possible if the right people are in control and managing the process.

[The Konica]

Konica,

Do you accept that
a) There are people who know more about Jack O'Connor about the science of 'peaking' and periodised training, in a professional capacity?

b) That some of these people might also be interested in the GAA and some might even post here?

c) That Jack realises that other people know more than him and therefore uses them in his preparation of Kerry?


A nothing article in a newspaper in June is not a true reflection of what Jack O'Connor thinks about peaking or anything else. Why in the name of God would he care about them peaking. (PS if Dublin's form in the league constitutes a peak then God help them).

Finally, I've had similar discussions with Zulu before, and I've come to the conclusion that professionals in the field shouldn't try to debate with people who use terms like peaking (which means 'going well') in a GAA context

AZ, my point is very simple ... the world is full of muppet's who come on to sites and say 'I know more than manager X', I could do better etc etc.
It's easy to sit behind a key board and criticize a manager and say 'I know more than him'.
I guarantee you very few people could manage a team to 'peak' as well as he had.
By the way - I'm not exactly a fan of O'Connor's either, but I respect his ability.

Also - Peaking is NOT just a physical condition - it's not just down to a physical trainer, which naive people assume.
To also suggest that Jack O'Connor is not in charge or party to the training is idiotic and stupid.

Finally to claim that someone could do better is simply arrogant and stupid, managing an IC team is a very demanding and challenging role, unless you've been there it's nothing short of stupid to think you can do better - certainly wrt to a manager as successful as Jack.
 

(Out of politeness the answer to your questions is 'yes' on all ... but I think from above you'll see my point is very different.)

[AZOffaly]

I know what you are saying, and I know (from experience ) what Zulu is saying too. It's semantics.

I agree with you, and I also agree with him.

[Hound]

Well I'm with Zulu on this, and he never said he could do a better job that Jack O'Connor.

But Jack was talking absolute nonsense when he said Dublin peaked in the league. Dublin were trying out new players and new formations during the league. We happened to play reasonably well v Kerry in our first game (which is probably the only time Jack looked at us in detail) but for the remainder of the campaign we mainly played rubbish with the odd 10 minute decent spell thrown in - apart from our 7th game where we played well.

[Logan]

Well I'm with Zulu on this, and he never said he could do a better job that Jack O'Connor.

In fairness nobody said that either!

[Farrandeelin]

Gas how a Mayo v Longford thread turned into a Dublin/Kildare/Jack O'Connor and peaking thread.

[Logan]

Ha ha!

Someone needs to end this pissing contest and close the thread!

[Hound]

Well I'm with Zulu on this, and he never said he could do a better job that Jack O'Connor.

In fairness nobody said that either!

Finally to claim that someone could do better is simply arrogant and stupid, managing an IC team is a very demanding and challenging role, unless you've been there it's nothing short of stupid to think you can do better - certainly wrt to a manager as successful as Jack.

[The Konica]

Zulu, sorry I mean Hound ... that was a general reply to AZ about the know all muppets on GAA forums, but you already know all that. 

[Zulu]

Zulu, sorry I mean Hound ... that was a general reply to AZ about the know all muppets on GAA forums, but you already know all that. 

No it wasn't, you claimed I said I could do a better job than Jack. So you are either an idiot or are lying, In my first post on the topic I said I disagreed with his assertion on Dublin and Mayo pointing out why. In response to your query as to how I could possibly justify having the gumption to disagree with Jack O'Connor about anything I said I knew more about the concept of peaking than Jack (which I do). Now to your simple mind this seems an outlandish claim, I don't see why as I never claimed I could do a better job as an IC coach than Jack I was simply saying that there is no evidence that Dublin/Mayo peaked early. This rather straight forward argument seems to be beyond you and you are now resorting to talking lies and bullshit in equal measure. Don't bother responding to this as you've long since stopped making any kind of relevant points.

[INDIANA]

Well I'm with Zulu on this, and he never said he could do a better job that Jack O'Connor.

But Jack was talking absolute nonsense when he said Dublin peaked in the league. Dublin were trying out new players and new formations during the league. We happened to play reasonably well v Kerry in our first game (which is probably the only time Jack looked at us in detail) but for the remainder of the campaign we mainly played rubbish with the odd 10 minute decent spell thrown in - apart from our 7th game where we played well.

How can players Hound not be tired after training twice a day so early in the season. Ewan Mc Kenna made a valubale point in the tribune yesterday for once. Its an amateur game. You can only professionalise it so much. You wouldn't need a degree in exercise physiology to know Dublin are already over-trained at this stage of the season. The constant obsession with having rippling muscles in preference to core stability is something that astonishes me with Dublin teams.

[Shamrock Shore]

*Last visited page 20...sees nothing of interest, leaves*