Longford v Mayo 26th June

[The Konica]

My guess is that he is yerraing about the Mayo/Dublin bit. But you can be sure he knows what is happening in his own camp. Looks like the physical preparation by Flanagan has been on the money in O Connors time. Kerry have been a different animal in September than earlier in the year. Something that has largely been lost on people in Mayo who seem to think roaring and shouting is more important.

Which is why I'd be worried if one of the main front runners Noel Connelly gets the role.

[Zulu]

Jack O'Connor has probably won more All Irelands than those criticizing his comments so I'd hazard a guess the man knows what he's talking about!

People think peaking is simply physical, when it's far more complex than that.
There is more than an element of sense to what O'Connor is saying.

So what if he has won more AI's, does that mean he can't be criticized or that he can't be wrong? I don't mean to sound arrogant but I do know more about peaking than Jack O'Connor and he is talking rubbish.

No you don't sound arrogant at all ... just naive and stupid.

So, tell us how you know more about peaking in GAA than Jack O'Connor.

Naive and stupid, why because I disagree with Jack O'Connor? If you took your head out of his ass for a while you'd be better served. I won't list my CV out here for you but I have worked with professional conditioning coaches and professional athletes so I know a thing or two about this and have pointed out why it is nonsense, but think whatever you like.

[The Konica]

Jack O'Connor has probably won more All Irelands than those criticizing his comments so I'd hazard a guess the man knows what he's talking about!

People think peaking is simply physical, when it's far more complex than that.
There is more than an element of sense to what O'Connor is saying.

So what if he has won more AI's, does that mean he can't be criticized or that he can't be wrong? I don't mean to sound arrogant but I do know more about peaking than Jack O'Connor and he is talking rubbish.

No you don't sound arrogant at all ... just naive and stupid.

So, tell us how you know more about peaking in GAA than Jack O'Connor.

Naive and stupid, why because I disagree with Jack O'Connor? If you took your head out of his ass for a while you'd be better served. I won't list my CV out here for you but I have worked with professional conditioning coaches and professional athletes so I know a thing or two about this and have pointed out why it is nonsense, but think whatever you like.

No, it's very simple.
You said ... 'I know about peaking than Jack O'Connor' - well then, back it up.


Jack O'Connor has had to peak his team in practice possibly more than most coaches or managers over the past few years, so I'm intrigued as to how someone can claim to know more about it than him.


Anyone can make loose claims on the internet.
Don't worry, if your so concerned you can pm me your list in confidence.

[Mike Sheehy]

Jack O'Connor has probably won more All Irelands than those criticizing his comments so I'd hazard a guess the man knows what he's talking about!

People think peaking is simply physical, when it's far more complex than that.
There is more than an element of sense to what O'Connor is saying.

So what if he has won more AI's, does that mean he can't be criticized or that he can't be wrong? I don't mean to sound arrogant but I do know more about peaking than Jack O'Connor and he is talking rubbish.

No you don't sound arrogant at all ... just naive and stupid.

So, tell us how you know more about peaking in GAA than Jack O'Connor.

Naive and stupid, why because I disagree with Jack O'Connor? If you took your head out of his ass for a while you'd be better served. I won't list my CV out here for you but I have worked with professional conditioning coaches and professional athletes so I know a thing or two about this and have pointed out why it is nonsense, but think whatever you like.

list your CV.

[Zulu]

Jack O'Connor is a teacher, not an expert in physical conditioning and he hasn't brought countless teams to 'peak'. Flanagan is the man behind the Kerry fitness program so if he said it there might be something behind it. However, even if Flanagan said it I would still say he is wrong, why? Because Dublin and Mayo approached the league in a different fashion, the season is still relatively young, many of the players which didn't play well in the championship didn't play much in the league so there is no reason why they should be physically or psychologically tired.

Anyone can make loose claims on the internet.
Don't worry, if your so concerned you can pm me your list in confidence.

I could do the same if I pm'd you so what's the difference? I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not, there are plenty of people who know more than Jack about physical preparation so it is no great boast. The man is obviously a fine manager but that doesn't make him an authority on all things related to team preparation.

[The Konica]

Jack O'Connor is a teacher, not an expert in physical conditioning and he hasn't brought countless teams to 'peak'. Flanagan is the man behind the Kerry fitness program so if he said it there might be something behind it. However, even if Flanagan said it I would still say he is wrong, why? Because Dublin and Mayo approached the league in a different fashion, the season is still relatively young, many of the players which didn't play well in the championship didn't play much in the league so there is no reason why they should be physically or psychologically tired.

Anyone can make loose claims on the internet.
Don't worry, if your so concerned you can pm me your list in confidence.

I could do the same if I pm'd you so what's the difference? I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not, there are plenty of people who know more than Jack about physical preparation so it is no great boast. The man is obviously a fine manager but that doesn't make him an authority on all things related to team preparation.

Jack O'Connor being or not being a teacher has nothing to do with it. He's an All Ireland winning manager.
Over the past decade he's shown he can manage a peak his teams to perform and win on a regular basis.

You on the other hand come on here, make wild claims and tell us he's talking 'nonsense' about peaking and you 'know more than him' about peaking.

You've been given two opportunities, in public (as Mike Sheehy demands) or privately and you've ignored both.

Arrogance, naivety and stupidity.

[Zulu]

Bullshit, I disagreed with Jack O'Connor's view that Dublin and Mayo peaked early in the season, I supported this view by pointing out that other teams that did well in the league have also done well in the championship, e.g Cork, Sligo and now Limerick can be added to that list.

Over the past decade he's shown he can manage a peak his teams to perform and win on a regular basis.

More bullshit, he is the manager of Kerry and while he seems to be a very good manager, anyone with a reasonable level of experience and knowledge of football would go close with the Kerry panels he has had. And it is Flanagan who has developed the team physically. It's like saying a property developer knows all about plumbing and wiring a house because he has put up numerous apartment blocks, Jack has overseen the Kerry teams development, it doesn't mean he is an expert on all aspects of that.

You on the other hand come on here, make wild claims and tell us he's talking 'nonsense' about peaking and you 'know more than him' about peaking.

No wild claims, I said I disagreed with his view and supported it without mentioning anything about myself. You then (tongue firmly in Jack's ass cheeks) asked what myself or moysider would know about this compared to Jack. I happen to know a good deal about this and said so. That is no great boast as Jack has little scientific knowledge of physical preparation, unlike Flanagan for example.

You've been given two opportunities, in public (as Mike Sheehy demands) or privately and you've ignored both.

And as I pointed out to you I could claim I worked with Man U, the All Blacks and Usain Bolt and you couldn't prove otherwise so what would me listing out the coaches and athletes I have be involved with prove? You seem to be under the impression that if Jack says something it must be the case and that it isn't possible that someone posting here might know a bit more about the concept of peaking that a school teacher, albeit one involved in coaching. 

Arrogance, naivety and stupidity.

Three characteristics you clearly have in abundance.

[The Konica]

It's a very simple point which you're still not grasping ...

Jack O'Connor has done it.
Repeatedly.

You say you know more and yet can't or won't give any proof.

Who are people going to believe? A proven All Ireland winning manager with a track record or a fantasist?

[Zapatista]

And as I pointed out to you I could claim I worked with Man U, the All Blacks and Usain Bolt and you couldn't prove otherwise so what would me listing out the coaches and athletes I have be involved with prove? You seem to be under the impression that if Jack says something it must be the case and that it isn't possible that someone posting here might know a bit more about the concept of peaking that a school teacher, albeit one involved in coaching. 

Ahh but Jack O' has worked with Usain Bolt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PousjvySZvE&feature=PlayList&p=6110ED2EFD85E3B6&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=47

[The Konica]

And as I pointed out to you I could claim I worked with Man U, the All Blacks and Usain Bolt and you couldn't prove otherwise so what would me listing out the coaches and athletes I have be involved with prove? You seem to be under the impression that if Jack says something it must be the case and that it isn't possible that someone posting here might know a bit more about the concept of peaking that a school teacher, albeit one involved in coaching. 

Ahh but Jack O' has worked with Usain Bolt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PousjvySZvE&feature=PlayList&p=6110ED2EFD85E3B6&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=47

         

[Zulu]

It's a very simple point which you're still not grasping ...

Jack O'Connor has done it.
Repeatedly.

You say you know more and yet can't or won't give any proof.

Who are people going to believe? A proven All Ireland winning manager with a track record or a fantasist?

It is you who can't grasp the simple point. Jack claimed that both Dublin and Mayo peaked too early and the only reason he seemed to have for this claim is that both did well in the league but had performed poorly in the championship. I disagreed with this and pointed out that other teams, i.e. Cork, Sligo, Limerick, Wexford, Monaghan etc. who had done well in the league and had put a good effort into it had also perofrmed well in the championship. So Jack was either 'yerraing' or he was wrong.

You then suggested that because Jack has won AI's that he must be right and any poster here must be wrong. I then pointed out that I have a good deal of knowledge and experience in this area and would know what I was talking about, you then assume that this can't be true as apparently a poster having some experience of professional sport is akin to claiming you walked on the moon. I can't prove what I have done as I'm not going to post personal information about myself and giving a list of coaches and athletes I've worked with would prove nothing anyway as you wouldn't know if I had or not.

I've never lied on this forum about anything I have done, if doing some work in professional sport is such a fantastical concept to you that anyone claiming to have done it must be lying well then you must live a sheltered life.

I've supported my view that teh Dublin and Mayo footballers didn't peak with a logical argument all you have is that Jack said it so it must be true. I'd say many posters here would be of a similar opinion to myself and moysider as most of them can think for themselves.

[Dinny Breen]

Zulu you're not arguing with posters you're arguing with the myth that surrounds successful GAA managers.

What do you think of Kildare? Because speaking of peaking, Kildare rightly fecked up their training, they were sluggish as hell against Louth but were flying against Antrim in the 2nd half and with the Leinster final on next week it seems obvious what Kildare were trying to do but completely under-estimated the challenge of Louth. Kildare just don't have the players to win those kind of games that Kerry and Tyrone seem to be able to do.

[Zulu]

Zulu you're not arguing with posters you're arguing with the myth that surrounds successful GAA managers.

Sorry Dinny, I'm not sure what you mean. Konica seems to think that if Jack says it then none of us can disagree with him which I think is utter nonsense. I don't want to give the impression that I don't rate Jack or that he doesn't have an informed opinion I just disagree that there is any real evidence that Mayo or Dublin 'peaked' early.

What do you think of Kildare? Because speaking of peaking, Kildare rightly fecked up their training, they were sluggish as hell against Louth but were flying against Antrim in the 2nd half and with the Leinster final on next week it seems obvious what Kildare were trying to do but completely under-estimated the challenge of Louth. Kildare just don't have the players to win those kind of games that Kerry and Tyrone seem to be able to do.

If I'm not mistaken Dinny you manage/coach a rugby team so you know as well as I do that sometimes teams go out and play poorly a week later they play brilliantly and there seems to be no reason for it. IMO everyone is now jumping on this peaking bandwagon and apportioning any sluggish performances to a poorly timed training program when this isn't necessarily the case.

I was listening to 'Take your point' yesterday and one of the analyst mentioned the fact that Galway hurlers may have 'peaked' in the league three times. Now the only reason he said that was because they played well then and haven't done so since but if you asked him about Galway's training programme or what the physiology of peaking is I'm sure he wouldn't have a clue therefore all he really did was bandy about a buzzword, as did Jack O'Connor IMO.

Peaking is a concept takien from individual sports and IMO it is nigh on impossible to get teams to peak. Instead the training programme should be about maintaining a fairly high standard across the year and managing fatigue. Any coach who trains through early games like Louth doesn't know what he is doing IMO as there is no need to do so with breaks of 2-3 weeks between championship games.

Kildare just don't have the players to win those kind of games that Kerry and Tyrone seem to be able to do.

This is a key point, Kerry and Tyrone (Cork too) can beat most teams while at 70-80% so they can engage in harder training prior to games and still win, though I don't think they necessarily need to do so. However, most of the rest can't do that and therefore it shouldn't be attempted, periodised you season based on the games you play. That may mean that you break your training up into blocks of 3 weeks or even two weeks or it may mean you use a mixture of different periodised strategies  but the concept of training through games to 'peak' for a game you may not even get to is utter rubbish IMO.

[Dinny Breen]

I just mean that a winning All-Ireland manager is treated as if he can walk on water and everything he says should be taken as gospel because he has won an All-Ireland and if you disagree then you must be mad.

I know what training Kildare were doing through the League and I believe they got it wrong because as you say it's not an exact science, I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, it was over a year ago that we were debating the benefits affects of periodisation and how it wouldn't be suited to a team etc. But Kildare imho opinion were not fresh for the Louth game physically or mentally as all 15 players looked off the pace. For that I lay the blame with management in particular the evidence since in the two games against Antrim when we looked much quicker to the ball and dominated the physical exchanges.

[Zulu]

I just mean that a winning All-Ireland manager is treated as if he can walk on water and everything he says should be taken as gospel because he has won an All-Ireland and if you disagree then you must be mad.

Yep that's the one alright, a myth that Konica fully signs up for.

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon

I didn't say you were Dinny but many people/pundits are now throwing this peaking thing around without having any knowledge about it and therefore it can, and should be, challenged.

But Kildare imho opinion were not fresh for the Louth game physically or mentally as all 15 players looked off the pace.

You could be right and if they did train through that game in the belief that they would win it and that this would allow them peak for the Leinster final then I would question whether they know what they are doing.

Just to highlight how little is still known about periodisation and the nonsense that is often spoken.  A few years ago, a study was conducted of the training practices of all the NFL coaches in American football. I can't remember the exact figures but most of them said that they conducted periodised training programmes but when the investigators looked at their training programmes in detail, less than half were actually doing a periodised programme. In other words most of them didn't know what periodised training was (outside of a vague notion) or how to do it. This was about 10 years ago in fairness but I've no doubt that the training programmes of many IC teams have little scientific rationale underpinning them. I know the Limerick training programme doesn't yet they are doing fine.