The Official 2010 FIFA World Cup

[Norf Tyrone]

I know England are a long way from being as good as the Media, Irish and English by the way, make them out to be, but they are a long way better than they've shown in this World Cup as well.

Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Rooney etc *are* good players. You can't play well in the Champions League if you are not a good player, and while Gerrard has been poor all season, the rest have been good in England and Europe.

But it's as Norf says, you either pick a system to suit the players you have (which probably would have been a variation of 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1, or else you pick the players that suit your system, which would have been a straight call between Gerrard and LAmpard, or maybe Gerrard and Defoe.

In the end Capello picked a system which he wanted, and picked players that suited a completely different system.

Hard to fathom really, but as bad as England looked in the 4 games, they are not that bad as individuals and that is something the manager has to take a real look at himself about. It's a managers job to make the players he has perform to the best of their ability, and to come up with a game plan that suits them. Either that, or change the players he has to play to a plan he is comfortable with. End result is the same, a group of players playing to their maximum in a system that suits them.

Then if you are good enough you win, and if you're not, you don't. The frustrating thing for England is they had a group of decent players not playing anywhere near their maximum in a system designed to accomodate the players rather than to have a real pattern.

Spot on. 100% agree here with AZ.

[Doogie Browser]

I have to say,  yet again, that Dayo Richardson is excellent as the co-commentator on RTE. He was upgraded to the big match last night

He does his homework before a game, he prepares meticulously, watches the game like a hawk and offers top quality analysis of what we can see and what we cant see on the screen. I hope RTE do the sensible thing and make him the main co-commentator.

It is one of the disturbing factors among  co-commentators that they do feck all preparation before a game and offer lazy predictable descriptions of stuff we can see for ourselves.
Richardson is miles ahead of anybody else bar Trevor Steven, who is only half a street behind.

RTE's coverage has been second to none thus far.

[Main Street]

Usually I watch the games on Sky+ because I haven't time to watch the whole game and fast forward though the gaps in play, but I don't ff when Dayo is there.

[Billys Boots]

You see, I disagree with AZ (what heresy!) - there didn't appear to be a system at work at all.  For f's sake they couldn't retain the ball at all for more than three passes, even in their own half. 

That either means that: (1) the coach hasn't devised a system for them to do so, (2) the players are not capable of understanding or following such orders, or (3) the players are blatantly not obeying the instructions they were given.  All this assumes that they have the technical capability to do so, and have trained together enough to apply a system.  If it's (1) the coach must go, if it's (2) the English FA need to look carefully at how their youth policies are operating, or if it's (3) England need to examine their sporting culture or face a long period of doldrums.

[longrunsthefox]

I have to say,  yet again, that Dayo Richardson is excellent as the co-commentator on RTE. He was upgraded to the big match last night

He does his homework before a game, he prepares meticulously, watches the game like a hawk and offers top quality analysis of what we can see and what we cant see on the screen. I hope RTE do the sensible thing and make him the main co-commentator.

It is one of the disturbing factors among  co-commentators that they do feck all preparation before a game and offer lazy predictable descriptions of stuff we can see for ourselves.
Richardson is miles ahead of anybody else bar Trevor Steven, who is only half a street behind.

Agreed. I saw him on last night and thot 'who the f** is this boy?' and he was excellent.

[AZOffaly]

Billy, I have a loose definitiion of system in this England team.

As far as I can see it the 'system' was ..

Johnson and Cole attack down the flanks
Barry anchor the middle
Lampard advanced centre midfielder
Gerrard coming in off the wing to pop in behind Rooney, who's playing off a big man.

Basically the last chance Gerrard had was the England system in motion.

However, that's grand against poor teams where England can attack with impunity, and they won't be punished when they give the ball away (as they do all the time). Against good teams that hurt you on the break, what you ended up with was Barry AWOL, Gerrard caught upfield and infield, Cole isolated, Johnson brainless and Rooney injured and/or sulking.

If they *were* playing that way, warts and all, I can't understand how Crouch was not playing.

[johnneycool]

I'm surprised the legend that is JT isn't getting more abuse than he is. How he allowed a ball to travel 50 odd yards and totally misjudged it which left Upson high and dry as he'd no time to recover as he assumed 'one of the best defenders in the world' wouldn't make such an elementary mistake.

In all fairness to Capello, no system can legislate for JT's ineptitude

[AZOffaly]

That was poor alright, and individual errors are impossible to legislate for. However, the core issue remains. It's compounded by the errors, but it's wrong anyway.

[brokencrossbar1]

All the talk about system, players, coaches, media etc about England mask the main factor....they are out and deserve to be out and surely we shoul simply bask in the glory of Italy, France and England being out early

Seriously though, I don't care apart from the impact it has on Liverpool.  With England being out it means that the players will get an extra few weeks off.  The big bonus has been that Gerard has not been good and therefore the likelihood of a bid from another team has lessened.  Same with Torres.  Also with England being out the shambles that is Liverpool FC may actually have something fixed, as in reality, the WC is over as England are out!

[AZOffaly]

Your commas there threw me BC

I think you're right - LFC might get something fixed as, in reality, the World Cup is over because England are out.

[Doogie Browser]

Stevie-G may not have excelled but I thought he and Cashley Cole were prob the only two to emerge with any credit for the Brits.

[Norf Tyrone]

Billy, I have a loose definitiion of system in this England team.

As far as I can see it the 'system' was ..

Johnson and Cole attack down the flanks
Barry anchor the middle
Lampard advanced centre midfielder
Gerrard coming in off the wing to pop in behind Rooney, who's playing off a big man.

Basically the last chance Gerrard had was the England system in motion.

However, that's grand against poor teams where England can attack with impunity, and they won't be punished when they give the ball away (as they do all the time). Against good teams that hurt you on the break, what you ended up with was Barry AWOL, Gerrard caught upfield and infield, Cole isolated, Johnson brainless and Rooney injured and/or sulking.

If they *were* playing that way, warts and all, I can't understand how Crouch was not playing.

Again, that's exactly as I see it.

Re the John Terry point from Johnnycool. He defiantely had a poor game, but pre that I thought he was fairly decent in the 3 group games where England under performed.
England's primary failure in this WC was going forward. They had no craft, balance or a forward to be feared.

[Billys Boots]

Yep AZ, as you say there's no system, as the rest of the world understands the word.  To me, the teams that are doing well concentrate on keeping the ball, and using it sensibly and patiently.  It's not as if England (ostensibly anyway) don't have the players with the skills to do this - they appear to believe that their way will work, when it's patently obvious it won't.

Agree wholeheartedly about Richardson too - very good analyst, sharp as a sharp thing.

[Aerlik]

Heard this from an England fan mate: England are to change their name from "The Three Lions" to "The Three Tampons"; the last week was their worst period ever. ha ha ha

[Main Street]

Yep AZ, as you say there's no system, as the rest of the world understands the word.  To me, the teams that are doing well concentrate on keeping the ball, and using it sensibly and patiently.  It's not as if England (ostensibly anyway) don't have the players with the skills to do this - they appear to believe that their way will work, when it's patently obvious it won't.

Actually England do not have the midfield players with the skill to receive the ball and use it sensibily, at least they are not glaringly obvious in the epl. As I mentioned already - maybe Jamie O´Hara, maybe Upton but they would be anyway fecked if it came to the likes of Carrick.
A main issue imo, is that Capello did not recognise this after Scholes retired and did not blood in a replacement, maybe the pressure from most of the press and fans (empty vessels) would have been too much because it would have taken time to settle.  He neglected imposing a rational foundation to forming a team and it was beyond repair after that.