Party Politics - The single greatest handicap to the Nation

[muppet]

Discuss

[Farrandeelin]

Agreed, my family is steeped in FF and FF have done more harm to the country than good. It's a pity we don't have a left wing v right wing system instead of civil war politics.

[redhugh]

 Thought this was to do with horse racing- .......................I'll back out slowly.

[Billys Boots]

Party politics effectively depends on making oneself re-electable (and often appealing to the lowest common denominator) - rarely does this intersect with serving the national interest. 

[Hound]

Often annoys me greatly when the opposition disagree with a government proposal, for a makey-uppey reason when they are clearly only opposing because they feel they are obliged to, because they are the opposition.

Although clearly when they are practically all in agreement, people arent happy with that either!

Left v Right would possibly be better, but for that people would have to stop falling for the notion that FF are left of centre. Too many left of centre people vote for FF, even though their policies have been firmly right of centre for at least two decades. Labour arent helped by having people in leadership positions that would be perceived to have been getting towards the extreme left viewpoint in their past.

And indeed an excellent point by Billy. The system we have ensures politicians act in a populist manner to enable them to get elected next time. "The future" and what's best for the country is thus ignored totally.

[DrinkingHarp]

If it wasn't for politics goverments would run more smoothly.

[muppet]

Think of all the things politicians have either caused,affected or influenced by sheer incompetence in some way.

Property bubble.
Little or no regulation of the financial sector
Shell debacle
A 3rd world public Health Service - The HSE
eVoting farce
Fás
The Ryan report into Church abuse of children
The Magdalene victims (or employees as Batt O'Keefe calls them  )
Awarding of 2nd mobile phone license
Ray Burke
Liam Lawlor
Haughey
Michael Lowry
John O'Donohue
Bertie 'I won it on the horses' Ahern
170 Quangos
Only luck saving us from a serious train crash in the Malahide estuary.
Bankers bonuses and pay rises - paid for with our taxes
The Golden Circle
Not a single person charged over Anglo
The Tribunals - their cost to the exchequer and their impotence
We produce the least wind power in Europe - despite the amount of it in the Dáil
Bovale/Quarryvale
Roddy Molloy's payday versus the cost of Cervical cancer tests

Anyone like to add to that?

[Hardy]

Lisbon II
Larry Goodman
Barrier-free tolling (how to get the taxpayer to pay three times for nothing).
Shirley Temple Barr (well, somebody must be responsible and as Tommy Tiernan might say, it's not the fuckin Mexicans). Same applies to Marty Morissey, Ger Canning, Martin Carney (very much so).

On the other hand, consider the alternative to party politics and how it works in countries where they don't have party politics.

[muppet]

John O'Donohue expenses and allowances documents released

Here is a snippet:

Houston, New Orleans
Washington -
St Patrick's Day Celebrations
13-19 March 2008


Hotel  €514.52
         €160.68
         €858.10 
T & S €460.93
Gifts   €512.33
Flights €12,404.70
Transport €4956.14

Capetown –
118th Assembly of the IPU - Cape Town
Inter-Parliamentary Union Conference
11 – 19th April 2008

Hotel €3092.03
T & S €699.38
Transport €1598.84
Official Entertainment €575.37
Flights €10,511.22

[Bord na Mona man]

Left v Right would possibly be better, but for that people would have to stop falling for the notion that FF are left of centre. Too many left of centre people vote for FF, even though their policies have been firmly right of centre for at least two decades.

FF were both left and right wing in the last decade and that's why the country is utterly banjaxed now.
What we experienced what Populism, something far more dangerous than either Capitalism or Socialism.
They gave us the excesses of both left and right wing politics.

A left wing welfare system - €200 a week on the dole, 3 times what is in Britain. An overstaffed, inefficient and heavily unionised public sector.
On the other hand, a right wing economic and taxation policy with low taxation and tax breaks.

With an annual deficit now running at €20 billion, one ideology has to give.

[muppet]

Left v Right would possibly be better, but for that people would have to stop falling for the notion that FF are left of centre. Too many left of centre people vote for FF, even though their policies have been firmly right of centre for at least two decades.

FF were both left and right wing in the last decade and that's why the country is utterly banjaxed now.
What we experienced what Populism, something far more dangerous than either Capitalism or Socialism.
They gave us the excesses of both left and right wing politics.

A left wing welfare system - €200 a week on the dole, 3 times what is in Britain. An overstaffed, inefficient and heavily unionised public sector.
On the other hand, a right wing economic and taxation policy with low taxation and tax breaks.

With an annual deficit now running at €20 billion, one ideology has to give.

Very well put.

The difference between the high welfare on one hand and low taxes on the other was filled by an unsustainable property boom with the associated stamp duty.

[Tankie]

corrupt politicians being lifted up in celebration when they return home by all the lads who they probably made rich and then get reelected as an independent

[Pangurban]

Could also be argued that the lack of real party politics is detrimental. the perpetual choice between deedle dum and deedle dee aka FF and FG. allied to the inordinate influence of tiny non representative parties who are called upon to form coalitions of the desperate. Even today following the political debacle and scandals of recent weeks, all the talk is of managing the situation, rather than effecting the root and branch structural changes which are clearly necessary

[deiseach]

Early parliamentary democracy in Britain was about individuals who coalesced into anti-Royalists (Whigs, eventually Liberals) ad pro-Royalists (Tories, eventually Conservatives). If you have any proposals for preventing people grouping together into parties under a shared attiitude to the burning issue of the day, please propose.

[Hound]

Left v Right would possibly be better, but for that people would have to stop falling for the notion that FF are left of centre. Too many left of centre people vote for FF, even though their policies have been firmly right of centre for at least two decades.

FF were both left and right wing in the last decade and that's why the country is utterly banjaxed now.
What we experienced what Populism, something far more dangerous than either Capitalism or Socialism.
They gave us the excesses of both left and right wing politics.

A left wing welfare system - €200 a week on the dole, 3 times what is in Britain. An overstaffed, inefficient and heavily unionised public sector.
On the other hand, a right wing economic and taxation policy with low taxation and tax breaks.

With an annual deficit now running at €20 billion, one ideology has to give.

well said