Sinn Fein vs Sieg Heil - Spot the Difference

[deiseach]

Are we to assume that you see some sort of equivalence between the Allies and the Axis forces during WWII, then?

Absolutely. If you can't see a comparision between Germany and the Soviet Union you really need to read a bit more.

[GalwayBayBoy]

What's the big deal here anyway? IRA at war with the British seek assistance from the Germans who were conveniently enough at war with the British as well. I'm sure the IRA would have conspired with the Martians if they were also at war with the British at the time.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

What's the big deal here anyway? IRA at war with the British seek assistance from the Germans who were conveniently enough at war with the British as well. I'm sure the IRA would have conspired with the Martians if they were also at war with the British at the time.

My point exactly, but doesn't suit EG's "agenda" here.

[Evil Genius]

Is there anything on Wikipedia Evil Genius won't w**k over??

Wikpedia is neither inherently reliable or inherently unreliable. When I choose to cite it as a reference on this Board, I do so in the full knowledge that any such citation may be challenged.

Mind you, I also do so in the knowledge that any such challenge will invariably be just the usual parrot squawk of "Wiki!, Wiki!", with never any attempt to demonstrate its unreilability or error.

Speaking of which, do you  have any comment on SF's collaboration with the Nazis during WWII, or their (present day) commemoration of collaborator Russell?

(Or are you still too busy trying to prove how Windsor Park was named after the Royal Family in 1905, twelve years before the Royals  even adopted the surname Windsor... )

[tyssam5]

I guess Godwin's law really can't apply here since the Nazi comparison is in the subject heading? Does that mean the 'debate' has run its course before it even started? I think so.

[Evil Genius]

What's the big deal here anyway? IRA at war with the British seek assistance from the Germans who were conveniently enough at war with the British as well.

Even if you imagine that allying themselves with the Nazis is nothing to be ashamed of*, how do you square that with the Shinners' claim to be a Socialist party?

Perhaps when every other Socialist party in Europe (and beyond) was fighting and dying in the fight against Hitler and his cronies, their Shinner counterparts in Ireland were alone in being misled by the Nazis' full title?  (To save you Googling, it translates into English as Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party).  


* - Have you any idea what the Nazis were all about?

I'm sure the IRA would have conspired with the Martians if they were also at war with the British at the time.

Exactly. Even had the Martians vowed to exterminate every single Jew, Homosexual, Gypsy, Mentally Handicapped etc etc in the world.  

Utterly, utterly shameless, right down to lying through their teeth about it, 64 years later...

[tyssam5]

And a General Eric Dorman Smith from Coothill in Co. Cavan was heavily involved in the defeat of Rommell in North Africa.

General Smith was only one of many thousands of Irishmen and women, many from the Free State, whose record in the fight against Fascism in WWII was exemplary.

Which prompts the question as to whether the National Graves Commission* will be erecting a statue to Gen.Smith or his colleagues anytime soon? 

(I won't be holding my breath, btw)

They have a fine looking memorial already.
http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/html/showMemorial.php?show=91

You should visit, nice stroll along the Liffey, maybe take in a spot of boating at the adjacent Trinity Boat Club.

[Denn Forever]

And Bertie Ahern was our most prominent Socialist.

[Evil Genius]

Are we to assume that you see some sort of equivalence between the Allies and the Axis forces during WWII, then?

Absolutely. If you can't see a comparision between Germany and the Soviet Union you really need to read a bit more.

Wow! So Nazism wasn't really any worse than Communism, then?

I may well be advised to read some more, but I sincerely hope it never covers whatever sh1te you've been reading...

[Evil Genius]

And Bertie Ahern was our most prominent Socalist.

Nope. In fact, he wasn't even your most prominent Hypocrite, either (though he looks to have given it his best shot  )

[GalwayBayBoy]

What's the big deal here anyway? IRA at war with the British seek assistance from the Germans who were conveniently enough at war with the British as well.

Even if you imagine that allying themselves with the Nazis is nothing to be ashamed of*, how do you square that with the Shinners' claim to be a Socialist party?

Perhaps when every other Socialist party in Europe (and beyond) was fighting and dying in the fight against Hitler and his cronies, their Shinner counterparts in Ireland were alone in being misled by the Nazis' full title?  (To save you Googling, it translates into English as Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party).  


* - Have you any idea what the Nazis were all about?

I'm sure the IRA would have conspired with the Martians if they were also at war with the British at the time.

Exactly. Even had the Martians vowed to exterminate every single Jew, Homosexual, Gypsy, Mentally Handicapped etc etc in the world.  

Utterly, utterly shameless, right down to lying through their teeth about it, 64 years later...

Do you have to work at at your verbose pomposity or does it just come naturally to you?

[A Quinn Martin Production]

If you look at my posts I don't think I ever stated nor even suggested that Windsor Park was named after the Royal Family.

As I said the information on Sean Russell has been known for years.  Noted historian Brian Hanley (OK I've never heard of him but probably held in higher regard than Henry McDonald) stated...he wasn't a Nazi.  We could list many examples of collaboration of many people with Nazis and other regimes.  Didn't the British and Americans facilitate the escape of many Nazis to South America after the war??  Churchill was well aware taht Stalin was systematically killing his own people and thousands of Poles yet turned a blind eye because the Soviets were on our side.  Are you trying to suggest that Sean Russell, and by extension the 'RA and the current SF leadership were somehow responsible for the actions of the Nazi regime?  Russell is being remembered for his role in the 1916 Rising and War of Indpedence etc, I doubt whether they are celebrating his actions during WW2 much in the same way as you are referencing Molyneaux's and Chichester- Clarke's (he must have been wounded in the head) war exploits and ignoring their support of a regime that denied human rights to many of its citizens.

The 1920s and 1930s in Ireland were a complex time.  I cite the example of my father's uncle who fought at the Battle of Jutland, was burnt out of his house in the 1920s by presumed supporters of his role in WW1, joined the IRA in the 1920s, rejoined the Royal Navy in 1939 (while the IRA was "at war" with Britian), was offered a desk job because of his age, but volunteered for active service, and was lost at sea in 1940.

[red hander]

From the Detroit-based National Socialist Movement

The (recent) furore over Prince Harry of England donning Nazi uniform is astonishing.  There has always been a close association between the Royal Family and the Nazi Party.

The Queen's husband, Prince Philip was trained in the Hitler Youth curriculum, Nordic and Aryan myth, and eugenics.  His four brothers-in-law, with whom he lived, were all German who all became high-ranking figures in the Nazi Party.

Philip was the only boy in the family and his four sisters were considerably older than he "more like aunts than sisters" as one biographer put it. Philip lived with his sisters and their husbands because his parents had a "difficult" home life. His four brothers-in-law were all German and all became high-ranking figures in the Nazi Party.

Through the influence of his sister, Theodora, young Philip was sent to a German school near Lake Constantine that had been founded by her father-in-law, Max von Baden, and his longtime personal secretary, Kurt Hahn. Though half-Jewish, Hahn was an early supporter of the Nazi Party, and the school was a hotbed of Hitler Youth activity, Nordic and Aryan myth, and eugenics.

Philip's sister Margarita married a Czech-Austrian prince named Gottfried von Hohenlohe-Langenburg, a great-grandson of England's Queen Victoria; Theodora married Berthold, the Margrave of Baden; Cecelia to Georg Donatus, Grand Duke of Hesse-by-Rhine, also a great-grandson of Victoria; and Sophie to Prince Christoph of Hesse.

By 1935 Prince Christoph was chief of the Forschungsamt (directorate of scientific research), a special intelligence operation run by Hermann Göring, and he was also Standartenführer (colonel) of the SS on Heinrich Himmler's personal staff.

The Forschungsamt used electronic intelligence-gathering methods to police the Nazi Party, while working with the Gestapo against the Catholic Church and the Jews.

The son of Sophie and Prince Christoph was named Karl Adolf after Hitler and Prince Philip afterwards took a keen educational interest in his nephew

Prince Christoph's brother, Philip of Hesse, married a daughter of the King of Italy, and became the official liaison between the Nazi and Fascist regimes.

Philip's sister Cecilia and her husband Georg Donatus, hereditary grand duke of Hesse-by-Rhine, died in 1937 when the plane they were flying to London in crashed. It was a Junkers belonging to Hermann Göring.

According to Newsweek (April 5, 1976) it was known that Prince Bernhard was a member of a special SS intelligence unit in IG Farben and this had originally been pointed out in testimony at the Nuremberg trials.

Bernhard resigned from the SS, in 1937, when he married the future Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. Adolf Hitler forwarded a congratulatory message though Bernhard, who became a naturalised Dutchman.

Philip and Bernhard remained not just distant relatives but close friends and in October, 1961, founded the World Wildlife Fund.

In the Queen's family her Uncle, the former King Edward VIII, had considerable Nazi sympathies as did his mistress and later wife, Wallis Simpson.

Edward's and Wallis' Nazi sympathies were, in part, responsible for him being forced off the throne although the version the public got was that Wallis, as a twice divorced American, would be an unsuitable wife for a King.

In 1945 MI5 officer Anthony Blunt was sent to Germany as a personal emissary of King George VI to retrieve papers written between the Duke of Windsor and Nazi officials that, had they been made public, would probably have destroyed the Royal family.

Many years' later it was revealed that Anthony Blunt was a Soviet spy. He was enabled for many years to maintain his position as survey of the Queen's pictures because of his implied threat to tell all the Nazi secrets of the Duke of Windsor if he were sacked.

"Wallis Simpson, the Nazi minister, the telltale monk and an FBI plot US papers shed light on efforts to spy on fascist sympathizers."

I dunno, 1 statue against a lifetime of paying taxes to keep those parasites in the comfort they're accustomed to? Mmmmmmmmmmmm

[lynchbhoy]

what would this 'message' actually be ?

but please, what IS your message here?

The "message" is quite simple, actually: namely, whilst the Shinners claim to be a Socialist party, at the same time they made common cause with Fascism during WWII, including eg murdering entirely innocent civilians in England in a bombing campaign, assisting the Luftwaffe in the bombing of Belfast, cheering Hitler's successes against the USSR, and assisting Nazi Agents sent over to the Free State etc.
And far from being repentant about this murkiest and most repugnant of activities, they are actually "honouring" Russell, the most prominent of their Nazi-loving leaders, whilst conveniently attempting to air-brush that particular aspect of his past from the record.
But if such a concept is too difficult for you to follow, just concentrate on the term "hypocrite"...

btw :wikipedia is an impecible source alright

I am standing by the sources which I quoted; if you think them unreliable, then it is up to you to demonstrate how. Which, if nothing else, might provide you with an "escape clause" from addressing the main message of this thread...

and I believe it has been demonstrated on here before that the unionists were guilty of an aparthied system that was not too far removed from what the nazi's implemented, although not to the same level of killing it has to be said.

You may "believe" it, but no such thing has been "demonstrated" on this Board, merely alleged, by you. Moreover, it is notable that when you have sought to repeat your allegation, it has received little or no support from anywhere on this Board, even from amongst "the usual suspects". (I suspect even they find your ludicrous and offensive claims in this respect to be embarrassing).

So if yo0u can manage to find your way back to the real world, perhaps you might care to enlighten us all with your views on Irish Republicanism's collaboration with Nazism during WWII, and their present-day "celebration" of the Collaborator-in-Chief...

so the Sinn fein that was set up in the 1980's is linked to nazi germany and facism, but at the same time are claiming to be socialists

ok tell that to the urban constituents of sf in Dublin and other urban places that support them !

if grasping at straws was ever introduced as an olympic sport, then youd win gold each time !
your 'message' is unintelligible if not completly daft !

You are spouting these things, how about you 'PROVE' them from credible sources and not your fantasy island wikipedia !

I think we all saw your failed attempt to argue against thefact that there was an aparthied system in the north for donkeys years !
Must tear you up inside !

[Evil Genius]

What's the big deal here anyway? IRA at war with the British seek assistance from the Germans who were conveniently enough at war with the British as well.

Even if you imagine that allying themselves with the Nazis is nothing to be ashamed of*, how do you square that with the Shinners' claim to be a Socialist party?

Perhaps when every other Socialist party in Europe (and beyond) was fighting and dying in the fight against Hitler and his cronies, their Shinner counterparts in Ireland were alone in being misled by the Nazis' full title?  (To save you Googling, it translates into English as Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party).  


* - Have you any idea what the Nazis were all about?

I'm sure the IRA would have conspired with the Martians if they were also at war with the British at the time.

Exactly. Even had the Martians vowed to exterminate every single Jew, Homosexual, Gypsy, Mentally Handicapped etc etc in the world.  

Utterly, utterly shameless, right down to lying through their teeth about it, 64 years later...

Do you have to work at at your verbose pomposity or does it just come naturally to you?

Do you have to work at "playing the man", or does that come naturally to you?

Anyhow, now that you have abandoned your earlier, all-too-brief attempt to "play the ball", may I take it that you see nothing wrong with Irish Republicanism actively collaborating with Hitler (at least if it helps them murder civilians in Coventry, at any rate)?