Mickey Harte joins the Irish News

[muppet]

Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money? 

[Hardy]

I oppose government grants for GAA players and have done so publicly. I support government grants for radon remediation works on private houses and will accept one if I get it.

Am I a hypocrite?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

And as has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread already muppet, and which you seem to be singularly incapable of absorbing: Mickey Harte has no problem with people making money out of the GAA, repeat none! He has an issue with the amateur status of players and in keeping it that way, and players only, as in his view payment of players will be to the detriment of Gaelic Games, and by extension to the detriment of the GAA. So therefore he does not do both, and your fundamental premise is fatally flawed. If you want to keep a closed mind on the basis of that misconception be my guest, for I do now see that there's no further point in debating this point with you.

None so blind as those who will not see.

[supersarsfields]

Muppet, I have to agree with FOSB. Mickey has only ever said he doesn't believe in Pay for play. He's never given out about a player getting a job over another better qualified person because of who he is rather than what he does, which lets be honest isn't unheard of. It wouldn't be too hard to name players who picked up jobs easy enough because of who they are. Now if Mickey had came out and condemned this then I'd say you'd have a point on the hypocrisy but I just think your comparing two different views on two separate issues. Mickey doesn't believe in Pay for play and has spoken out against it. Mickey has as far as I know never given out about a GAA player picking up a job because of who he is, which is what Mickey has done.  

[muppet]

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

And as has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread already muppet, and which you seem to be singularly incapable of absorbing: Mickey Harte has no problem with people making money out of the GAA, repeat none! He has an issue with the amateur status of players and in keeping it that way, and players only, as in his view payment of players will be to the detriment of Gaelic Games, and by extension to the detriment of the GAA. So therefore he does not do both, and your fundamental premise is fatally flawed. If you want to keep a closed mind on the basis of that misconception be my guest, for I do now see that there's no further point in debating this point with you.

None so blind as those who will not see.

I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

[Malone Aristocrat]

Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money?

Are you for real?

[muppet]

Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money?

Are you for real?

Sorry MA I missed the word official. However any paid official who publicly attacked others in the association would also be hypocrites in my opinion.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

There you go again: he IS NOT taking money because of his participation in the GAA, he may be getting paid for writing a column, which is NOT the same thing.

[muppet]

I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

There you go again: he IS NOT taking money because of his participation in the GAA, he may be getting paid for writing a column, which is NOT the same thing.

What is the column about?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

What is the column about?

What is your obsession? FFS it doesn't matter, he's getting paid (probably) for putting the necessary effort into writing a column for a newspaper that's fit for publication. Simple as.

[muppet]

What is the column about?

What is your obsession? FFS it doesn't matter, he's getting paid (probably) for putting the necessary effort into writing a column for a newspaper that's fit for publication. Simple as.

You call me obsessed? 

[redhandluke]

I wonder what MH's reaction would be if one of his star players (or Mugsy for that matter ) were offered the opportunity to pencil a column for a rival newspaper, would MH have any right to say to the player in question to desist from such ramblings - or would the threat be implicit in that he would drop him from the first 15.

Now that would be hypocritical from MH.

ps you're a star Mugsy.

[ONeill]

Muppet, do you believe Mickey should not have written his book in 2003 if he was receiving money?
Do you honestly believe that because he opposes PFP he should desist from putting pen to paper on GAA matters for fear of getting a couple of punts from it?

If your answer to both is yes, then you've a fairly warped interpretation of what amateur and professional status, and ones oppostion or support for it, actually means.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

What about this damned hypocrite? Getting his few bob for his Hoganstand column, yet calling for the amateur status of players to remain intact, and getting paid for writing about that very same thing!

KEVIN McSTAY column
17 February 2006

Professionalism is not a route best taken

The provincial leagues masquerade as the first serious blows of the season but the veteran GAA fan knows they constitute nothing more than springtime shadow boxing. Yet the crowds have turned out in record numbers to get their first sightings of teams that are under strength, experimental at best and certainly in challenge game mode. It proves, I suppose, that we are living in a very special time for the game of Gaelic football.

Indeed you could argue that the GAA never had it so good - a magnificent new stadium to play host to our national games, Rule 42 relaxed to allow HQ play host to some international games and as mentioned above, big attendances. Throw in the queue of television stations that want to give us live broadcast of our leagues, college and university finals, the championship summer, ladies football and camogie and of course our first cousins from the compromise/international rules series.
There is little question but the skill and fitness levels coupled with the intensity of the games at all levels has made for better contests and up to a dozen teams now harbour ambitions of attaining provincial and All Ireland goals.

The downside, strange to report, concerns the increased income flows that this GAA 'Celtic Tiger Sporting Explosion' has delivered. When the FAI and IRFU are finished their rental agreements for 2007, the GAA will lodge the best part of a cool 10 million euro. Nice work if you can get it. And this particular stream may flow for another few years beyond this while the nation awaits the new stadium on the Southside.

Downside? Afraid so, for as soon as the boys from the GPA completed the maths, the call went out. Grants, increased expenses, a play for pay survey and a couple of well-orchestrated solo runs by high profile players to keep the topic at the top of the sports pages hit the unsuspecting public. The GAA had better get to grips with this for a spark (and it is a little more than that at this stage) neglected can lead to a great fire.

A sport searching for and struggling to find, a solution to the problem of an amateur era attempting to somehow transform into a quasi-professional model, is a phenomenon that is neither new nor exclusive. Rugby in this island walked the path some years ago, so we have a certain type of template to guide us. But I expect no model exists that reflects the traditions and history of the GAA so we can expect difficulties along the way.

It is my strongly held opinion that the association and the players must stay well away from the idea of full time professional engagements. I retired from inter county football almost 16 years ago and in the interim the way players prepare for and play the game has changed dramatically. In fact, it is nearly unrecognisable. The organisation of your sporting week is now as close to professionalism as makes little odds.

At the time we felt the sacrifices were great too but understood very clearly that we, like those who trained us, had volunteered our services and could walk away at any time if we felt we had more important things to do with our lives. By the way, that option still applies to both sides today.
We trained twice a week, fairly hard usually and had a training game on the Saturday and maybe a club or challenge game on the Sunday. The NFL started in October and there was a game every fortnight and a break usually for December and January. Off again in the springtime and usually an exit by the end of March from the league. Another two month break as we eyed the championship! The modern inter county player might laugh at this schedule, especially as it might not compare favourably with a top-level club team in 2006.

No games midweek, no games under lights, few meetings and only a little bit of weights, nutrition and psychology. Over the past few years I decided to sneak into the training sessions of teams I admire from afar so that I can judge for myself how training is going and what type of drills and intensity they apply. It proves that every minute is accounted for and any coach worth his salt has planned the evening and not a single minute will be wasted. The end result is perfectly tuned athletes but the cost to the player is one of time and serious commitment.

To get to and remain at this elite level is not easy and players very often park family, social educational and career responsibilities. The man that sets these standards is exclusively the manager and if he has a few like minded players so much the better. And getting the best manager for your team is often a costly business. This is where the GAA money comes in - there are counties, supporters and business people prepared to do all in their power to get the best, because his expertise and knowledge when dovetailed with a talented crop of players often leads to unimagined levels of success.

But the players are beginning to get envious and want a slice of the action. They obviously do not realise the short life span of a modern manager - those in charge are hired to be fired - or the workload involved. At inter county level it is almost a second full time job; at club standard certainly a twenty five-hour week (three sessions and a match at an average of five hours each and throw in telephone and meeting time) if you are serious about success.

I cannot deny that players have a strong case for certain allowances - travel, accommodation, food, kit and most importantly, loss of earnings due to their football. But the GPA jumped the gun a little and their argument is not well thought out. This extra money will be for a three-year cycle at best before it slows to a trickle. Long term funding for grant aid needs a fixed source of funding - a percentage of league gates, sponsorship from the title sponsor, etc but not one that changes from year to year. At any rate we need a position paper from the GPA that sets out the road map for the next 10-20 years.

When the applause begins to fade and retirement from the playing fields comes into focus, players will have all the time in the world to become managers or pundits or part time columnists if that is their fancy, but they can hardly lay claim to owning the association and thus be in charge of its future. As players we played for the enjoyment, the contest, the fun and the friendships. We played for the pride we had in the jersey and the colours. Today, footballers play for all those reasons too and in my opinion those are reasons enough to keep you at it. If you are lucky enough to play in finals and win them then you are one of the chosen few and those memories are priceless.

And I'll finish with an obvious question: it is late January as I type these words and 50%-60% of clubs are unable to find suitable managers. Money is not the problem - every club is able to offer reasonable rates. So, why all the vacancies if it is so lucrative? The figures rarely stack up if you are honest and I know plenty of managers who ended up in the red as a result of their passion for certain appointments. These matters are rarely tracked by straight lines.

[Doohicky]

Damning evidence there Fear.

I also think that any players who want the game to stay amateur should not accept jobs where they are expected to teach anything to do with Gaelic Games as they are obviously working and using their experience from Playing Gaelic.

So being a PE teacher in schools is out.

Pundits on TV who want to keep the game amateur are also hypocrits. They are getting paid to talk about it, so them out too.



Edit for terrible spelling