The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[el_cuervo_fc]

RAFA TURMOIL
Liverpool face same old enemy - themselves


UNDER PRESSURE - Kop boss Rafa Benitez
By CHRIS BASCOMBE, 10/08/2008

NOT for the first time in his Liverpool career, Rafa Benitez feels undermined, embarrassed and isolated by his board.

His summer pursuit of Gareth Barry over, Benitez has two options.


He can accept the decision and use the £18million earmarked for the Villa man to make an alternative target — David Silva — the third most expensive player in Liverpool's history.


Or, as his latest cryptic Press conference hinted, he can end the uneasy truce since 'Klinsmanngate' made Liverpool the grubbiest story in town and ensure the new campaign starts amid similar chaos.


So hurt is Benitez by what he perceives as a challenge to his leadership, even his hierarchy have no idea what he'll do or say next.


They hope Benitez will be wise enough to see, on top of the £20m spent on Robbie Keane, the kitty available would be the envy of every other Premier League manager outside Stamford Bridge.


Instead, Benitez spent part of Friday backing a move from Belfast tycoon John Miskelly to loan the club £12m for transfers.


Such a proposal was doomed. It wasn't that Hicks and Gillett couldn't meet the asking price for Barry. They just didn't want to.


The decision not to pursue Barry wasn't due to lack of funds, nor did it reflect a mistrust of Benitez's judgement in the transfer market.


Put simply, the Americans didn't think Barry was worth the money and would rather the manager invested elsewhere on the team.


The delay in enforcing that decision was bewildering — doubts about the deal were first reported in this paper two weeks ago — but the argument has validity.


The circumstances which made a deal seem attractive in May had altered.


Benitez originally said Xabi Alonso would be sold and Barry recruited at a profit.

But as the summer progressed, it became clear that would not happen and if the deal had gone through, Alonso would have gone for nothing like the £25m Benitez had hoped for. In fact, Liverpool would have made a huge loss.

Strategy
If such a strategy was applied at every football club, it's the quickest way towards bankruptcy, especially as Alonso is one of Liverpool's most popular assets inside and outside the dressing room.


At every club, a line has to be drawn. Even Bill Shankly was sometimes told to think again when he drew up a list of targets.


Any concerns Hicks and Gillett harboured about how their decision would be received were eased against Lazio when The Kop, always more sympathetic to the underdog, warmly supported Alonso.


Alonso was given the same backing Benitez received when it was he who was seeing replacements courted behind his back.


What the latest spat demonstrates is the poor working relationship between Benitez and his board was never cured. It was like trying to heal a terminal wound with a sticking plaster.


There is a dangerous philosophical split in how Liverpool should be run which is irreparable, so the club is limping along making the best of a woeful situation. In recent years, Benitez has become a bullfighter as much as manager, engaging in one public scrap after another.


His closest aides act as if they relish and invite public confrontation to try to alert the fans to disagreements, rather than resolving differences with private discussions. This is the latest example.


Hicks and Gillett, for all their flaws, were as infuriated as Martin O'Neill when the pursuit of Barry was made public.


They've begun to recognise the conflict between Benitez's approach to transfer deals — firmly rooted in the Real Madrid tradition — and the Liverpool way, which the fans crave a return to.

Misery
The situation won't be resolved until one side, or all, are finally moved on, putting themselves and the increasingly fed-up Liverpool fans out of their misery.

It would enrage the supporters if Benitez said enough was enough, but the Spanish boss is cunning enough to recognise Liverpool's ownership issue remains unresolved and he might yet see off both Hicks and Gillett, who still can't stand each other.


The Dubai International Capital interest in Liverpool is all but dead, but that of Sheikh Mohammed is not.


He's now instructed alternative Arab investment companies from his vast portfolio to make capturing a controlling interest at Anfield a priority.


It's hoped a £240m bid for a 60 per cent stake may be enough to tempt Gillett and Hicks to sell-up — with both receiving £120m and a share of future profits.


Such a deal is still some way off, however, and for now Liverpool must head into a new campaign facing the same eternal questions.


"It's hard enough trying to fight Manchester United and Chelsea without fighting each other," captain Steven Gerrard warned last May.


Once again, Liverpool's most dangerous opponents appear to be themselves

http://forums.liverpoolecho.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=48432

[el_cuervo_fc]

From Arab press

DIC ready for fresh Liverpool bid


The National Staff

Last Updated: August 09. 2008 11:37PM UAE / August 9. 2008 7:37PM GMT DUBAI // Dubai International Capital (DIC) have made it clear they still want to buy Liverpool, as the club's ownership battle threatens to flare up again over the proposed transfer of Gareth Barry.

Manager Rafa Benitez is reported to be at loggerheads with Liverpool's American owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett after it emerged the duo had turned down an offer of a £12million (Dh84.6m) interest-free loan to help to buy Aston Villa midfield player Barry, 27.

Benitez had waited all week for money to be put in place to allow him to end the Barry saga before he sells any more players to fund the deal. But the US owners' failure to produce the promised short-term loan may mean the £18m transfer deal could soon be dead.

The debacle might play straight in to the hands of long-term suitors DIC who have let it be known they are still waiting in the wings with their own proposals for the club.

The investment group had a £400m offer for the Merseyside club turned down in March and a source close to DIC said: "Just because it is has been a quiet summer does not mean DIC have lost interest. They are happy that things have now become low key, and they are awaiting developments."

There is also speculation a former prospective buyer, and several rich US-based fans, are ready to help the club out of their cash problems.

Observers believe plans for the new stadium have, as yet, not included confirmed building contracts or the lease being agreed with the local council. The club's owners are also going to have to find cash soon to fund the stadium as well as re-finance the current loans.

But the delay over the Barry deal is beginning to embarrass Liverpool. As soon as it was suggested the owners were looking to borrow money to fund the deal, City sources – admittedly close to the DIC bid – insisted borrowing would be difficult in the current climate.

http://forums.liverpoolecho.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=48436

[Mentalman]

Somethings got to give here.

[Chrisowc]

Somethings got to give here.

Hopefully dum and dummer fcuk right off.  And take Parry with them!

[GalwayBayBoy]

This Barry thing has been a complete fiasco. It's not the job of the owners to be telling the manager what players he should or should not be buying. The manager is given his budget and he should be free to spend it how he chooses if he believes it will improve the team. The owners are only there to sign the cheques not to query the managers judgement. They either have faith in him or not.

[slow corner back]

The whole point is surely that Liverpool do not have the money to buy Barry without selling players or borrowing more. The owners/ banks will have the final say on any more borrowing. The owners have stumped up quite a lot of cash for Rafa and apart from torres most of it has been badly spent.

[under the bar]

Surely Hicks and Gillett have the right to put their employee Benitez in his place and tell him what's what?  Same goes for the fans. Who owns the club after all?

[Mentalman]

Surely Hicks and Gillett have the right to put their employee Benitez in his place and tell him what's what?  Same goes for the fans. Who owns the club after all?

Maybe, but previously David Moores didn't slap down Rafa, or Houllier or Evans, in public, this type of stuff was all discussed and agreed in private. Also I'm not sure dumb and dumber actually agree on principle, but rather agree they don't want to spend anymore money than they need too to keep the club competitive until one of Sheik Mohammed's investment vehicles moves in. As mentioned by GBB it's more typical for the owners to agree a budget with the manager which he can spend as he pleases, rather than veto who the manager should and shouldn't sign, after all what do a pair of septic tanks know about "soccer"? 

[gawa316]

The owners have stumped up quite a lot of cash for Rafa and apart from torres most of it has been badly spent.

Yeah Mascherano, Babel, Skrtel, Lucas etc etc have all been a waste of money. What was Rafa thinking

[BerfArmagh]

Liverpool have turned into a real mickey mouse club. Rafa loses the run of himself, if he had'nt shouted his big mouth off in the first place and done his business on the QT, he would'nt be embarassed as he currently is.

At the end of the day, the money is'nt there. Rafa to spit his dummy out by the end of the week

[GalwayBayBoy]

Liverpool have turned into a real mickey mouse club. Rafa loses the run of himself, if he had'nt shouted his big mouth off in the first place and done his business on the QT, he would'nt be embarassed as he currently is.

At the end of the day, the money is'nt there. Rafa to spit his dummy out by the end of the week

Actually Rafa has said very little during the whole Barry saga apart from the fact that he is interested in the player after Liverpool lodged a number of offical bids which they are allowed to do. It was actually Martin O'Neill who was in the papers every second day whingeing about the whole thing because he didn't want to lose his best player.

And it's already been established that the money is there since they are now looking to spend it on a different player. What the yanks were objecting to was spending it on a 28 year old who they feel would have very little resale value in a few years and the fact that feel that he wasn't needed in the team. That's all well and good but it's not their job to tell the manager what type of player he should or should not be looking to sign. Would Ferguson would put up with it from the Glazers?

[Hound]

But in this case the Americans are probably right! Buying Barry for £18m does not make financial sense - unless it means we win the league, which presumably is what Benitez thinks.

I have no doubt that the fans' reaction to Alonso and Barry in the friendly v Lazio last Friday was fed back to the Yanks and that made up their minds for them. They probably think they are sure to have the fans support in this stance - and they'll find it very hard to comprehend when they don't 

[Shrewdness]

Will Degen be a regular in the defence this season, or will he be another victim of Benitez's rotation policy

[nifan]

Will Degen be a regular in the defence this season, or will he be another victim of Benitez's rotation policy

It remains to be seen if he is better than the other options there.

[stiffler]

Any word on the Silva deal?