Sigerson Cup 2009

[Zulu]

Can't agree with too much of what you've said there Indiana, if the players are injured and there is a good chance of inflaming it or making it worse I can understand Crokes stance. But to say the Sigerson isn't all that or that players don't form bonds that last a lifetime is wrong. I played Sigerson myself and I have been involved coaching at University for the last 3 or 4 years and I can say with out fear of contradiction that players and mentors put a huge effort into this competition and rate it very very highly. It is a magnificent competition and many lads who have played senior IC love the Sigerson, players like Cian O'Sullivan and Mark Vaughan aren't easily replacable regardless of the size of the University, to take that point further is Bernard Brogan easily replacable for a county of well over a million?

                                     In situations like this it is a matter of opinion as to what is right but for me the injury risk would want to be very high for me to agree with Crokes position. Everyone in DIT and UCD have put in a great deal of time, money and effort into getting to Sigerson, for them now to lose two of their best players days before the final weekend is very harsh and I know I'd be livid if I were involved with either college, very few people have AI club medals but very few have Sigerson ones either.

[mattockranger]

Zulu your spot on....fair play

[INDIANA]

Can't agree with too much of what you've said there Indiana, if the players are injured and there is a good chance of inflaming it or making it worse I can understand Crokes stance. But to say the Sigerson isn't all that or that players don't form bonds that last a lifetime is wrong. I played Sigerson myself and I have been involved coaching at University for the last 3 or 4 years and I can say with out fear of contradiction that players and mentors put a huge effort into this competition and rate it very very highly. It is a magnificent competition and many lads who have played senior IC love the Sigerson, players like Cian O'Sullivan and Mark Vaughan aren't easily replacable regardless of the size of the University, to take that point further is Bernard Brogan easily replacable for a county of well over a million?

                                     In situations like this it is a matter of opinion as to what is right but for me the injury risk would want to be very high for me to agree with Crokes position. Everyone in DIT and UCD have put in a great deal of time, money and effort into getting to Sigerson, for them now to lose two of their best players days before the final weekend is very harsh and I know I'd be livid if I were involved with either college, very few people have AI club medals but very few have Sigerson ones either.

Zulu these universities actively target these players and bring them in under mickey mouse degress if necessary and they do it in bulk. One player is not crucial to their chances. How in God's creation Zulu could a guy who has never played senior inter county football in his life be irreplaceable? You're not seriously suggesting Cian is as good as Bernard are you? Based on what?
As for Vaughan -do posters really want me to embarass them over what they 've said about him in the last few years? Most of you think he's useless and you've said as much to that effect. He hasn't played in all of their games either and they've won without him.
What would the reaction be towards the Crokes management if one of them got injured at the weekend. They'd never be let into the place again.They are absolutely irreplaceable as far as Crokes are concerned. If they lose one of them, Cross have the game won. UCD and DIT are better able to absorb the loss and I'll argue that with anyone. Both squads have multiple inter county footballers , club sides don't.

[dodo]

Zulu these universities actively target these players and bring them in under mickey mouse degress if necessary and they do it in bulk. One player is not crucial to their chances. How in God's creation Zulu could a guy who has never played senior inter county football in his life be irreplaceable? You're not seriously suggesting Cian is as good as Bernard are you? Based on what?
As for Vaughan -do posters really want me to embarass them over what they 've said about him in the last few years? Most of you think he's useless and you've said as much to that effect. He hasn't played in all of their games either and they've won without him.
What would the reaction be towards the Crokes management if one of them got injured at the weekend. They'd never be let into the place again.They are absolutely irreplaceable as far as Crokes are concerned. If they lose one of them, Cross have the game won. UCD and DIT are better able to absorb the loss and I'll argue that with anyone. Both squads have multiple inter county footballers , club sides don't.

Kilmacud Crokes:
Paul Griffen
Adrian Morrissey
Liam McBarron
Brian Kavanagh
Mark Vaughan
etc.


Crassmaglen Rangers:

Paul Hearty
Francie Bellew
Aaron Kernan
Tony McEntee
John Mcentee
Stephen Kernan
Oisin McConville
etc.

[Zulu]

You're not seriously suggesting Cian is as good as Bernard are you? Based on what?

Not at all, i'm merely pointing out the falacy of your argument, you said that because UCD had 22,000 students Cian would be easily replaceable but we can all agree that Brogan, despite playing for a county with over 1 million people to pick from isn't easily replaceable. Cian O'Sullivan is center back on the UCD team and Mark Vaughan is the main forward on the DIT team so both arte irreplaceable for their respective teams, at least by the standards of any other team you'd care to mention. Maybe some lads are in college on dubious grounds but they still put in a huge effort into their football while there, as do all involved in the GAA at university level that that effort can be so easily dismissed is nonsense. If the injury concerns are genuine then fair enough but if they are being exaggerated to justify preventing these young players palying in one of the best GAA weekends of the year, then it's a real shame. Anyone who has been involved in Sigerson knows how important it is to those involved and how important it is to the GAA nationally.

[INDIANA]

Its not highly regarded in Dublin Zulu . I'm not saying thats right but club and county is all that matter in Dublin. Sigerson doesn't really raise any emotion in Dublin. Like I said the management would never be forgiven by the club for letting them play because Sigerson doesn't register with club suporters. It really doesn't. Hence the reason why Dublin colleges don't do very well. Because students are living at home and not away with college they are expected to choose thier club over their university

[The GAA]

Zulu these universities actively target these players and bring them in under mickey mouse degress if necessary and they do it in bulk. One player is not crucial to their chances. How in God's creation Zulu could a guy who has never played senior inter county football in his life be irreplaceable? You're not seriously suggesting Cian is as good as Bernard are you? Based on what?
As for Vaughan -do posters really want me to embarass them over what they 've said about him in the last few years? Most of you think he's useless and you've said as much to that effect. He hasn't played in all of their games either and they've won without him.
What would the reaction be towards the Crokes management if one of them got injured at the weekend. They'd never be let into the place again.They are absolutely irreplaceable as far as Crokes are concerned. If they lose one of them, Cross have the game won. UCD and DIT are better able to absorb the loss and I'll argue that with anyone. Both squads have multiple inter county footballers , club sides don't.

Kilmacud Crokes:
Paul Griffen
Adrian Morrissey
Liam McBarron
Brian Kavanagh
Mark Vaughan
etc.


Crassmaglen Rangers:

Paul Hearty
Francie Bellew
Aaron Kernan
Tony McEntee
John Mcentee
Stephen Kernan
Oisin McConville
etc.

There were 18 county seniors on the Queens squad this year

[The GAA]

Its not highly regarded in Dublin Zulu . I'm not saying thats right but club and county is all that matter in Dublin. Sigerson doesn't really raise any emotion in Dublin. Like I said the management would never be forgiven by the club for letting them play because Sigerson doesn't register with club suporters. It really doesn't. Hence the reason why Dublin colleges don't do very well. Because students are living at home and not away with college they are expected to choose thier club over their university

They are not expected to do anything of the sort. you are asserting your own presumptions on the masses.
University hurling and football is not heavily supported outside of the immediate players and their family / friends anywhere in the country. past players etc also row in.
beyond that there is no supporter base so its never going to have massive gates.
That doesn't mean the competitions don't mean everything to those who play in them and citing the opinion of unconnected clubs is irrelevent.

Students are not expected to choose club over university because that dillemma very rarely occurs. sigerson and fitzgibbon are february / march tournaments and the clash only occurs when a dublin club makes an all ireland semi or final. how often has that happened in the last 20 years?

[INDIANA]

Did Paul Kernan and Kyle Carragher line out for UUJ two weeks ago- if not why?

Gaa you're not from Dublin. So I'll try and use english in the clearest possible terms. Sigerson means very little in Dublin. Thats life. I'm not saying its right but thats just the way it is. Lads live at home because they can commute to college daily, thye are still available to train with their club and Dublin clubs largely expect them to do so. A country lad can't go home to train during the week and generally plays with the university all year round. I know hundreds of players who pack in university football because they wouldn't give it the time over their club. I'm not saying thats right but thats the way it is. Thats why dublin universities have a very poor record in the Sigerson.

[corn02]

Did Paul Kernan and Kyle Carragher line out for UUJ two weeks ago- if not why?

Gaa you're not from Dublin. So I'll try and use english in the clearest possible terms. Sigerson means very little in Dublin. Thats life. I'm not saying its right but thats just the way it is. Lads live at home because they can commute to college daily, thye are still available to train with their club and Dublin clubs largely expect them to do so. A country lad can't go home to train during the week and generally plays with the university all year round. I know hundreds of players who pack in university football because they wouldn't give it the time over their club. I'm not saying thats right but thats the way it is. Thats why dublin universities have a very poor record in the Sigerson.

Kernan played full back,, I think Carragher was on the bench but not 100%.

[The GAA]

Did Paul Kernan and Kyle Carragher line out for UUJ two weeks ago- if not why?

Gaa you're not from Dublin. So I'll try and use english in the clearest possible terms. Sigerson means very little in Dublin. Thats life. I'm not saying its right but thats just the way it is. Lads live at home because they can commute to college daily, thye are still available to train with their club and Dublin clubs largely expect them to do so. A country lad can't go home to train during the week and generally plays with the university all year round. I know hundreds of players who pack in university football because they wouldn't give it the time over their club. I'm not saying thats right but thats the way it is. Thats why dublin universities have a very poor record in the Sigerson.

Sigerson means very little anywhere - except to the players. dublin is no different

That most certainly is not why dublin universities have a poor record in sigerson. just how many dublin club players do you think would be making the DCU, DIT or UCD panels?

[Zulu]

With respect Indiana you seem to know little about what University football/hurling is really like, plenty of lads regularily go home for training in Universities around the country. As GAA points out Sigerson and Fitz aren't well supported in any city or town, in fact most of teh student population don't really care about it either but to those involved it is as serious as any competition anywhere in the GAA. There are massive sacrifices made and a few people help to keep the whole thing running, all on top of their club and county committments, I can assure you that may IC players have been shattered after being knocked out, including some of the real legends of the game. I can't speak for Dublin but I know here in Munster the Sigerson and Fitz competitions are highly prized and any club attemopting to pull players from the weekend would be met with stiff opposition. In truth I don't think any club would try to do so.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Sigerson can be compared to the Railway Cup in a lot of ways. Outside of the players there isn't a massive interest but among the players it is taken extremely seriously. And its as high a level outside inter-county that one can get to. Unlike the Railway Cup there is a camaraderie to college teams. You spend a lot of time with them, training through the winter, and, in many cases living with your teammates. I know a good few lads who played Sigerson in NUIG and elsewhere and they rank it very, very highly.
But the original point I made remains - if Vaughan and O'Sullivan don't want to play in the Sigerson then they can make that decision themselves without having it to be made for them. Perhaps the players want to play, despite what you are saying Indiana about the lack of importance of the competition in Dublin. If Vaughan and O'Sullivan don't take the comp serious, they would not have to be told what to do. Perhaps it means a lot to them?

[corn02]

Did Paul Kernan and Kyle Carragher line out for UUJ two weeks ago- if not why?

Gaa you're not from Dublin. So I'll try and use english in the clearest possible terms. Sigerson means very little in Dublin. Thats life. I'm not saying its right but thats just the way it is. Lads live at home because they can commute to college daily, thye are still available to train with their club and Dublin clubs largely expect them to do so. A country lad can't go home to train during the week and generally plays with the university all year round. I know hundreds of players who pack in university football because they wouldn't give it the time over their club. I'm not saying thats right but thats the way it is. Thats why dublin universities have a very poor record in the Sigerson.

And the race for Sam Maguire is not taken seriously in Kilkenny, but it does not give Kilkenny folk, or you in this situation, the right to devalue it because personally it does not mean much.

It is a competition regarded in the highest esteem.

[full back]

Question for all.........
If it was you & you were involved in both finals what would you do?
Take it that your home club dont make many AI finals so the chances are you may not make it again, same with the Uni