Proposed Papal Visit to Ireland.Will it

[Esmarelda]

I'd say all the women that have had abortions will be flocking out to thank him for allowing priests to forgive them for their sins. Must be a weight of their shoulders.

I don't mind if he come any more than any other  head of state. Once he brings his own security at his own cost.

Do you wish to discriminate against one particular head of state?

I don't see him as a head of state. Even if he was, what benefit is he going to bring to Ireland by visiting? I'm surprised he's even recognised as the pope considering his predecessor left the post without God's say so.

Well he is recognised as such by the state he is visiting (and a good few others), just as the Irish President is recognised by the state he represents, its a basic fundamental of international diplomacy.

Would his predecessor be more acceptable to you for the funding a state visit? Or is there a particular reason that you dont see him as head of the Holy See?

I'm sure it is. When Michael D heads off to such states, or when we welcome in other Heads of State, it is generally to mutually benefit the relevant states and its people. The Vatican City is a state in name only. Few of the basic fundamental characteristics of a state apply to it. Which pope it is is irrelevant.

I'm surprised he's even recognised as the pope considering his predecessor left the post without God's say so.

Did God tell you this personally or was it in a tweet?

I've never met nor heard from God. Have you?

Is there a suggestion that there was a communication from this figure to direct the last pope?

In what way would a visit from another sovereign head of state be of any more mutual benefit than one from the Pope?

See above. Economically, travel visas, trade deals etc.

[Franko]

Very blasé.  With that criteria you would object to visit from any EU head of state.

[Esmarelda]

Very blasé.  With that criteria you would object to visit from any EU head of state.

I'm not sure why you think that. It wasn't meant to be.

I suppose human rights violations would probably make me object. I'd have to take each case in isolation.

[omaghjoe]

Esm

So you dont recognise the sovereignty of the Vatican, rather than an issue with its particular head of state, is that the problem? 

The only criteria any country has for sovereignty is adherence of its citizens to its ideal and acceptance of that sovereignty by other sovereign states. The Vatican would appear to meet both of these, Which of the two do you have an issue with?

The institutions of The Republic of Ireland, The United Kingdom, The EU and The UN all recognise it as a sovereign state. For what reason exactly do you wish one or all of them to depart with protocol and not extend standard diplomatic courtesy for a recognised head of state?

Wouldnt meeting and hosting with one of the worlds most influential people not be of benefit to any country?

I don't have a problem with the sovereignty of the Vatican. It has no bearing on my life. So if it fits the criteria, as you see and describe them then so be it and on that basis if the leader of this state wishes to invite the leader of that state I suppose I don't have a good reason to object.

However, the Vatican differs from your average state. He won't be coming over discussing trade agreements, work visas or anything that I can see that is worth discussing. Sure people that believe the particular belief system that he leads, rather than the ones that haven't stood the test of time will see this mere mortal's attendance as some great event.

I see it as a waste of time (not my time, our public representatives' time) and our money.

On your last question, how would meeting him be of benefit to Enda Kenny or any other politician that meets him, in the context of his influence over people?

Fair play Esm I always enjoy our discussions your logical and mannerly even if we rarely agree, but sure if we did what would there be to talk about.

I would say the benefit to any politician is obvious, with a raised profile and thus favourability among the Catholic faithful.
There will also be renewed and strengthened faith the country's congregation so they should be happier. Increased adherence to the church's values and esp Pope Francis's message of forgiveness, mercy, understanding etc should also mean a more cohesive society overall. 
The benefits to the country economically have been highlighted previously of the trip itself. I would also add increased profile for the country from the publicity generally and especially among the massive global Catholic community. Any increase in global publicity will lead to increased general tourism, and specifically from a visit like this, pilgrimages of which a good number are likely for the visit itself.
Also from the global Catholic community there would be a renewed understanding of common values which may lead to strengthened links in all aspects of public life including business. Admittedly its difficult to gauge that of course, but like many of the benefits they can't be totted up financially on a balance sheet.

[omaghjoe]

Very blasé.  With that criteria you would object to visit from any EU head of state.

I'm not sure why you think that. It wasn't meant to be.

I suppose human rights violations would probably make me object. I'd have to take each case in isolation.

In the Vatican?

[T Fearon]

The Papal visit is not about the temporal aspects of commercialism,tourism.It is about spiritual renewal in a country which is sadly, in the southern part,spiritually bereft.

[Esmarelda]

Esm

So you dont recognise the sovereignty of the Vatican, rather than an issue with its particular head of state, is that the problem? 

The only criteria any country has for sovereignty is adherence of its citizens to its ideal and acceptance of that sovereignty by other sovereign states. The Vatican would appear to meet both of these, Which of the two do you have an issue with?

The institutions of The Republic of Ireland, The United Kingdom, The EU and The UN all recognise it as a sovereign state. For what reason exactly do you wish one or all of them to depart with protocol and not extend standard diplomatic courtesy for a recognised head of state?

Wouldnt meeting and hosting with one of the worlds most influential people not be of benefit to any country?

I don't have a problem with the sovereignty of the Vatican. It has no bearing on my life. So if it fits the criteria, as you see and describe them then so be it and on that basis if the leader of this state wishes to invite the leader of that state I suppose I don't have a good reason to object.

However, the Vatican differs from your average state. He won't be coming over discussing trade agreements, work visas or anything that I can see that is worth discussing. Sure people that believe the particular belief system that he leads, rather than the ones that haven't stood the test of time will see this mere mortal's attendance as some great event.

I see it as a waste of time (not my time, our public representatives' time) and our money.

On your last question, how would meeting him be of benefit to Enda Kenny or any other politician that meets him, in the context of his influence over people?

Fair play Esm I always enjoy our discussions your logical and mannerly even if we rarely agree, but sure if we did what would there be to talk about.

I would say the benefit to any politician is obvious, with a raised profile and thus favourability among the Catholic faithful.
There will also be renewed and strengthened faith the country's congregation so they should be happier. Increased adherence to the church's values and esp Pope Francis's message of forgiveness, mercy, understanding etc should also mean a more cohesive society overall. 
The benefits to the country economically have been highlighted previously of the trip itself. I would also add increased profile for the country from the publicity generally and especially among the massive global Catholic community. Any increase in global publicity will lead to increased general tourism, and specifically from a visit like this, pilgrimages of which a good number are likely for the visit itself.
Also from the global Catholic community there would be a renewed understanding of common values which may lead to strengthened links in all aspects of public life including business. Admittedly its difficult to gauge that of course, but like many of the benefits they can't be totted up financially on a balance sheet.

Me, logical? I have no idea what that means

The benefits to politicians is obvious, but I was referring to the people of the country.

Your economic points are fair enough; he basically fills the same void that someone like Garth Brooks will fill. A load of people wanting to get a peep at a famous person who has graced little old Ireland with his presence. Coffee will be bought in the cafes near where he walks. I imagine that the cost of putting Garth Brooks up is covered in the ticket price. Maybe they should sell tickets to come and see the Pope. Seriously. Let's see who really wants to see him.

There may be renewed strength of faith in some and there may be an increased sense of fury in others given the Church's murky past. I'll take it that it'll do very little net good.

I completely disagree with your line in bold above. Love they neighbour = be respectful to everyone. I don't see how anyone in Irish society needs to be told this. If they do, I don't think the pope telling them is going set off a light bulb in their head.

Your last paragraph is at a level of wishy washiness that only a Catholic could come up with in this context. Catholics around the world are going to hear the pope make a speech and reach out to people on the street. They'll gather around to assess what his utterances mean (everything needs to be interpreted before we can move on to the next level) and there'll be an intangible increase in world at large.

[Esmarelda]

Very blasé.  With that criteria you would object to visit from any EU head of state.

I'm not sure why you think that. It wasn't meant to be.

I suppose human rights violations would probably make me object. I'd have to take each case in isolation.

In the Vatican?

Franko asked "With that criteria you would object to visit from any EU head of state." That was an answer. Just an example of the top off my head. Not specific to the Vatican. I

[Rossfan]

.It is about spiritual renewal in a country which is sadly, in the southern part,spiritually bereft.

Those Munster haythens need bucking up....... yet he won't be visiting them at all.