anyone else shouting at the tv at rte's coverage of the hurling?

[Zapatista]

As oppsed to "I cannot understand provide me with an English alternative" go out and learn some feckin Irish or put up with it.

In what way does not speaking Irish reflect on his own lot?

For him to say that the commentry should not be in Irish I think that the fact he does not understand it is a bigger point.

Maybe you should ask why he doesn't understand it and place blame (if you're looking for someone to blame) were it should be rather than spout off about it being a bad reflection on anyone. Would you go to South America and blame individuals for speaking Spanish rather than their native languages if they are lucky enough to exist?

Too many people prepared to get angry at others over the language and use it as a football. This is the most unattractive aspect to the Irish language.

[ziggysego]

Yesterday I thought the presentation was all the better without the crowd invasion.
The Tipp players were able to recover and celebrate with their team mates and mentors who've they've been on the road with for months and years. The team was then able to do the lap of the stadium and let everyone see the cup.
The Kilkenny players were also given a bit of peace, rather than being caught up in the throng.

My guess is the players, though not wanting to publicly heard dissing supporters, would rather this, than be set on and saddled by a 16 stone human jockey who happens to be most determined to burst onto the field first.

Which scenario would the players prefer?

A:


B:

Which scenarios indeed?

A:


B:

[spuds]

As oppsed to "I cannot understand provide me with an English alternative" go out and learn some feckin Irish or put up with it.

In what way does not speaking Irish reflect on his own lot?

For him to say that the commentry should not be in Irish I think that the fact he does not understand it is a bigger point.

Maybe you should ask why he doesn't understand it and place blame (if you're looking for someone to blame) were it should be rather than spout off about it being a bad reflection on anyone. Would you go to South America and blame individuals for speaking Spanish rather than their native languages if they are lucky enough to exist?

Too many people prepared to get angry at others over the language and use it as a football. This is the most unattractive aspect to the Irish language.

I know why he doesn't understand it, he didn't get taught it in school and hasn't picked up any more since. So we should change the commentry to suit him ? What colonial South Americans understand is another story Zapatista ! Forgive me if I don't go about the country being all understanding to all those that haven't Irish and bend over backwards to facilitate their every whim. Little enough servive has been provided over the years to promote the language so when one of the better traditions is threathened I feel the need to speak for it to be upheld.

I'm not using it as a football, just giving my tuppence worth. Are we to have all programmes on TG4 in English also to appeal to those who do not understand. Oh ye, we pay the license fee too ! 

[Farrandeelin]

Taithníonn sé go mór liom go bhfuil an tráchtaireacht ar na Cluichí Ceannais Mionúir i nGaeilge.
Ach cén fáth nach mbíonn Tráchtaire Connachtach agus Ultach gach tríú bliain?
Ceapann a lán daoine gur Gaeilge na Mumhan an t-aon saghas Gaeilge atá sa tír mar sin an las a cloiseann siad an t-am go léir ar RTE.

Aontaím leat Rossfan, má tá Gaeilge Chonnachta uait, éist le Seán Bán Breathnach ar Raidio na Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith liom tuiscint Gaeilge Ultach chomh maith, ach ní dóigh liom go mbeidh mé ábalta.

[johnneycool]

i far prefer listening to ó'sé than morrissey, canning and co.

You know what, I agree and what I know in Irish you could write on the back of a feg packet.

[Rossfan]

Taithníonn sé go mór liom go bhfuil an tráchtaireacht ar na Cluichí Ceannais Mionúir i nGaeilge.
Ach cén fáth nach mbíonn Tráchtaire Connachtach agus Ultach gach tríú bliain?
Ceapann a lán daoine gur Gaeilge na Mumhan an t-aon saghas Gaeilge atá sa tír mar sin an las a cloiseann siad an t-am go léir ar RTE.

Aontaím leat Rossfan, má tá Gaeilge Chonnachta uait, éist le Seán Bán Breathnach ar Raidio na Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith liom tuiscint Gaeilge Ultach chomh maith, ach ní dóigh liom go mbeidh mé ábalta.

Plaidhc ceart Gaillimheach nach bhfuil focal maith a rá faoi Ros aige.
An bhfuil éinne as do chontae a bhfuil Gaeilge ó dúchas aige/aici a mbeach in ann tráctaracht a dhéanamh?
Tá Gaeilge Mhaigh Eo an cosúl leis an saghas Gaeilge a mhúinter dúinne sa mbunscoil.

[Eamonnca1]

My old club used to do Irish lessons, I found them deadly handy when I was at primary school.  Gave me a great head start when I went to secondary school and had a year up on everyone else that was starting Irish.  That said, things fell apart five years later when I got a vicious and abusive incompetent teacher who put me off it for a long time. I've forgotten over half of what I learned.

Some people talk about the GAA in terms of "them", "those other people, over there."  If you feel strongly enough about promoting Irish, go and get a bit of teacher training and then run an Irish class at your local club. It's a volunteer association, you're free to volunteer to do your bit to help the language.  I used to "wish" the GAA would produce videos to explain what Gaelic games are, and when they finally did, they did an awful job.  I could have bitched about it, but instead I eventually took matters into my own hands and made my own movies.  I took positive action.

This business of pointing fingers and blaming people for the sorry state of the Irish language isn't going to do much good.  Some of this thread reminds me of when I was in school and teachers would give out to us and tell us we were "a disgrace" because we knew so little about our own country. Well excuse me Mr teacher sir, but how do you expect us to know this stuff if we're not taught? 

Ever go to a football match in the north?  Listen to the sound of the crowd singing the national anthem.  There is no sound. People don't know the words to it. Why? Because they're not taught anywhere. Parents think it's the schools' job to teach that sort of thing. Schools think it's up to the parents. GAA clubs don't think it's in their remit, or if it is they're too busy thinking about winning this year's championship to bother with such things.  Everybody looks at everybody else, waiting for someone else to do the work and then we wonder why it doesn't get done.

So if you want to see something done, take positive action. Don't just bitch about it and complain that somebody else didn't do it for you! Come up with a plan for teaching Irish, even if it means paying a teacher to come to your local club or clubs for a couple of hours a week.  Set some goals, like getting class members qualified to sit the Junior Cert (or GCSE in the north) within a fixed time frame and run a course over a fixed period of months leading up to it.  Run different lessons for specific age groups. Get primary school youngsters learning it. Come up with a fee that you can charge for taking the class, if people pay up front they'll be more likely to finish the course.  Cost it up, write up a plan, and submit it to your club committee or county board and see if you can get a bit of funding for it. Be positive and proactive.

Back on topic.  RTE used to piss me off with their build-up to the match where you'd hear over an hour of speculation from the experts almost right up the last minute and get to see nothing of the pageantry on the field, until Michael Lyster says "And we have to stop you there Cyril because the teams are now on the field."  So the explosive moment when the teams burst onto the field one at a time (which the GAA does better than any other sport including international soccer and American football) was completely overlooked.

The camera work leaves a lot to be desired too.  I seem to remember watching hurling on RTE years ago and you got to see a lot more close-up action. Now it all seems to be long-range stuff, so you can see where everyone is on the field but where the hell is the sliothar? And with the puckouts, they used to show the keeper actually hitting the ball before cutting to the long view, now they cut to the long view just before he hits it. Very annoying.

[Eamonnca1]

Oh, and that rule about translating names into their Irish equivalents doesn't apply to foreign names that don't translate.

It's still a silly rule though. Pedro Delgado the cyclist was never called Peter Thin in the anglophone media. Your name is what your name is in whatever language your parents used to name you.

[del_carroll]

Eamonnca1,
You've summed up exactly what I mean. I've started scraping away at Irish to get back into it, it's a bit of a slog, but it is very possible.

@Hardy: Having the games commented on in Irish is, based on the feedback on the discussion board, wanted by a lot of people, so would you still be against it? I would say Irish is, for various reasons, very much a minority language now, but it is a fundamental part of our heritage and is deserving of its slot on the big day. I think it would be an awful shame to drop it. The fact that it is wanted by a substantial portion of viewers (not necessarily 50%), means that showing it is not just tokenism.

The word Gael gets chucked around a lot on the site, so i suppose I would use it to define someone who takes an interest in supports and practices Irish Culture with their time, effort and money....this would include the language, the games, the music.....so yes it excludes those who don't ;- ). I would find it hard to reconcile the idea that a supporter of Irish culture would begrudge 120 mins of exposure via sports to the language.

[Hardy]

@Hardy: Having the games commented on in Irish is, based on the feedback on the discussion board, wanted by a lot of people, so would you still be against it?

Where did I say I was against having the games commentated on in Irish?

Eamonnca1: I agree with nearly all you say. I just want to point out that my posts were railing against the hyposcrisy of "official" GAA - i.e, the administrators in HQ, in pretending to fulfil the remit of promoting Irish while actually achieving the opposite and, in the process, inhibiting the promotion of under-age gaelic games. Full marks to any club that takes the initiative in Irish lessons, etc. I'm just pointing out the lack of any incentive or support from HQ for such initiatives and asking can anyone here think of one single thing GAA central administration has done in the last, say 50 years to promote Irish REALLY?

[seafoid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_1926.jpg

Very interesting map. Most of Mayo, Galway and Clare, Donegal, Kerry and Waterford would have been Gaeltacht in 1926.


I think it's great to have the minor match as Gaeilge. It's no worse than any other strand of hypocrisy in Ireland. i think say the treatment of travellers or the saving of money for the taxpayer by pumping 25bn into Anglo are worse, TBH.
Gaelgeoiri don't need the approval or the unwilling participation of Bearloiri to keep talking.   

[Eamonnca1]

Eamonnca1: I agree with nearly all you say. I just want to point out that my posts were railing against the hyposcrisy of "official" GAA - i.e, the administrators in HQ, in pretending to fulfil the remit of promoting Irish while actually achieving the opposite and, in the process, inhibiting the promotion of under-age gaelic games. Full marks to any club that takes the initiative in Irish lessons, etc. I'm just pointing out the lack of any incentive or support from HQ for such initiatives and asking can anyone here think of one single thing GAA central administration has done in the last, say 50 years to promote Irish REALLY?

Not much apart from the lip-service of having official minutes from Central Council written half in English and half in Irish.

AFAIK, Scór is the official 'cultural' arm of the GAA, but all it seems to do is organise competitions for song, and dance. It doesn't actually deal with anything that might directly involve teaching these things, so it's up to the clubs to make their own arrangements to make sure that this stuff is taught to their competitors.  That said, there is some merit in incentivising people to learn these activities by giving them a competition in which they'll be useful, and Scór taps into the inter-club and inter-county rivalries that the GAA has built up over the years to keep people interested.  For song and dance it seems to work reasonably well.  I dunno how popular Scór is now but when I was a kid I remember it being a huge big deal, every Sunday night it would get huge crowds up north.  Sure what else would you be at on a Sunday night?

The speaking of Irish is something that doesn't generally come in useful at Scór though.  It's been a long time since I went to one but in the bad old days of the endless Question Time round there was one round in which a question would be asked of each team in Irish to be answered in Irish. If there was three teams in it then that would be the three times in the whole night when you'd hear Irish spoken.

Learning a language isn't easy, and teaching a language is a skilled job.  At my old club we had someone that was a decent teacher at first, but later my Godfather took over. He passed away a few years back and he was the nicest man you'd ever meet and he knew his Irish inside out, but bless his heart back in the day he didn't know much about how to teach.  The GAA's volunteer base just doesn't have much in the way of expertise to deliver a specialised service like that, and there's no structure in place that's capable of addressing the issue. 

Maybe it's time to ask if it's time to set up a dedicated GAA wing that can put the systems in place to teach Irish through the network of clubs.  Set aside a budget, and use the money to hire paid Irish teachers who actually have the latest teacher training.  Charge students a nominal fee for attending the classes to keep the drop-out rate low, let them pay for their own books, and run the course over a fixed period and then qualify students to sit actual exams and get real government-endorsed qualifications.  After that you could organise social nights at the club where instead of learning Irish, you'd just use it.  Play board games and other activities where everything is done through the medium of Irish.  For example, translate the Monopoly Board into Irish and teach the kids all the vocabulary they'd need to know to play a complete game of Monopoly in Irish.  Board games would be great because there's a lot of interaction and speaking involved.

Instead of spreading the money thin all over the country from the start, concentrate on a few "centres of excellence" where you think you're likely to get good measurable results and prove the concept first before you roll out a national plan.

Just an idea.