our boys

[Cáthasaigh]

Nally, your rush to attack mghu here without ever expressing agreement with the opinions of this new fella speaks volumes. Very cheap point scoring.

A good friend of mine is a young officer in the Irish Army and I'm damn proud of him. I'm also damn proud of his commanding officer and colleagues who helped him bury his girlfriend after a car crash and were there for him when many others couldn't be. I really don't give a f**k what someone thinks about a particular legacy from the era of the civil war.

As to the original question, I find the tabloid attitude copied from the English papers to be cringeworthy.

Are you also proud of their participation in the war for control of heroin production in Afghanistan? How many deaths, in Ireland and Afghanistan does that facilitate annually?

[Hardy]

I'm not getting into any sort of debate on the 26 county army myself, but jaysus lads, for the sake of interesting reading if nothing else, if yis disagree with Cáthasaigh then have the balls to outline why, in terms of his arguments (not just by picking out one of his arguments and blissfully ignoring the rest, EG/Muppet.) (Or in the case of MGHU, blissfully ignoring all of his arguments).

It's impossible to debate with Cáthasaigh's logic - that because x happened in the past, y is going to happen in the future. Morrissey said recently that "if the British people decided tomorrow that the Queen must go, then the Queen wouldn't hesitate to turn her tanks on the British people. It would happen. Because the police are commissioned to protect the Queen against the people of England. That's their first and foremost task. And I find that absolutely absurd". No doubt he could look to Bloody Sunday (x2) and Amritsar as evidence for this assertion. Yet how do you disprove it? You can't prove a negative.

You mightn't feel the need to try to disprove it once you've formed an opinion on its credibility. Such an opinion might be informed by drivel such as the following:

the same garrison families who provided the officer corps of Britain's Irish regiments have consistently formed the backbone of the 26C officer corps

The echo of the ethos which accompanied such behaviour can be found today in the state's relationship with IRMS, the company which trains right wing extremists for corporate death squads, which was founded by former senior members of the 26C elite Ranger Wing 

The 26C army has never been anything other than the willing henchman of the 26C state

That last one is one of the funniest things I've read here in a while. Next we'll be hearing that the legislature is in cahoots with the judiciary and the presidency in a conspiracy to govern the country.

Good man, go with the ridicule rather than an attempt at reasoned debate of incontestible facts. It's the only option open to you which in effect renders your own post ridiculous and confers a certain status upon yourself. No doubt you are surrounded by clean windows.

I'm afraid ridicule is the appropriate response to the ridiculous. When you present reasoned points, I'll attempt a reasoned response. If your facts are incontestable, you'll have no problem providing a bit of supporting evidence for them, I'm sure. In the meantime, don't be worrying yourself about my status or, speaking of the impenetrably ridiculous, the state of my windows.

[muppet]

I love being lectured on how to be Irish. Really I do. It is even better when it is obviously a minority viewpoint, cherry-picking events from history, with no perspective, with no mandate, or any hope of a mandate.

I fear we are in danger of going down the road of the middle eastern countries who seem to bounce between the corrupt (dictators) and the (religious) zealots.

[ExcellentDriver]

I love being lectured on how to be Irish. Really I do. It is even better when it is obviously a minority viewpoint, cherry-picking events from history, with no perspective, with no mandate, or any hope of a mandate.

I fear we are in danger of going down the road of the middle eastern countries who seem to bounce between the corrupt (dictators) and the (religious) zealots.

Er, it always has. :p

[Cáthasaigh]

I'm afraid ridicule is the appropriate response to the ridiculous. When you present reasoned points, I'll attempt a reasoned response. If your facts are incontestable, you'll have no problem providing a bit of supporting evidence for them, I'm sure. In the meantime, don't be worrying yourself about my status or, speaking of the impenetrably ridiculous, the state of my windows.

Most of what I have presented can be found in any decent historical text, if you choose to deny Irish history there isn't much I can do for you. In the meantime here's a wee bit of background on IRMS to get you started

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Risk_Management_Services

[Rossfan]

Cathasaigh , what do you think of the people who tried to murder Peadar Heffron and succeeded in murdering the other 2 Catholic PSNI men?
This happened very recently , not in 1921 

Explain to my how this is relevant to the topic which concerns the 26C forces not the crown forces.

Just answer the ****ing question  ..... or would that give you away 

[Hardy]

I'm afraid ridicule is the appropriate response to the ridiculous. When you present reasoned points, I'll attempt a reasoned response. If your facts are incontestable, you'll have no problem providing a bit of supporting evidence for them, I'm sure. In the meantime, don't be worrying yourself about my status or, speaking of the impenetrably ridiculous, the state of my windows.

Most of what I have presented can be found in any decent historical text, if you choose to deny Irish history there isn't much I can do for you. In the meantime here's a wee bit of background on IRMS to get you started

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Risk_Management_Services

Ah, Wiki. That settles that, then. Anyway, even accepting the unimpeachable veracity of Wikipedia, what does that entry contain other than allegations? And even if this company was the modern day reincarnation of the SS, what has it got to do with the Irish Army? Go again.

And while you're at it, I'm beside myself with anticipation of your substantiation of your claim that "the same garrison families who provided the officer corps of Britain's Irish regiments have consistently formed the backbone of the 26C officer corps" and your explanation of the ludicrous statement that "The 26C army has never been anything other than the willing henchman of the 26C state".

[AZOffaly]

Well Hardy, in fairness, the Irish Army is volunteer, so that makes them 'willing'.

They are paid, so I suppose they are 'henchmen' under a specific view of the definition of henchmen, i.e. for personal gain.

And they are under the direction of the Minister for Defence, who is obviously part of the democratically elected government of the State.

So, ergo, they are willing henchmen of the state.

Why that seems to be a bad thing, I'm not sure.

[deiseach]

And because they've committed atrocities in the past, they will definitely commit atrocities in the future

[muppet]

And because they've committed atrocities in the past, they will definitely commit atrocities in the future

Even though the actual culprits have been dead for decades?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I see you have provided some hard evidence there newbie 

According to your link, this company does the following

"Services ProvidedI-RMS provide the following services:

Corporate: Business risk consultancy, Logistics security, Surveillance & counter surveillance.
Standard Security: Guarding ,Cash in transit, Patrols, Key holding.
Events Services: Corporate & private events,Festivals & sporting occasions, security personnel, Mobile ATMs.
Special Services: Security consultancy, Courier services, International security project management"

I fail to see what the problem is with that unless you don't want to be caught ripping an ATM out of a bank wall, want to sell Es to youngsters at concerts, riot at a sports event, rob a security van or physically assault the tax paying employees of a corporation.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

By the way Cáthasaigh, the name of the army of the Irish State areThe Irish Defence Forces &/or Óglaigh na h-Eireann. They are the only legitimate organisation to bear that name.

http://www.military.ie/

[Cáthasaigh]

Cathasaigh , what do you think of the people who tried to murder Peadar Heffron and succeeded in murdering the other 2 Catholic PSNI men?
This happened very recently , not in 1921 

Explain to my how this is relevant to the topic which concerns the 26C forces not the crown forces.

Just answer the ****ing question  ..... or would that give you away 

The question is off topic and as such you can hardly demand an answer. Explain to me the sectarian nature of your request as it appears that it is only Catholic victims which concern you. You neglected to mention the two young British soldiers killed at Massarene. I don't remember any media mention of their religion. Have you ascertained that they were non-Catholics and thus unworthy of your concern?

[Cáthasaigh]

I'm afraid ridicule is the appropriate response to the ridiculous. When you present reasoned points, I'll attempt a reasoned response. If your facts are incontestable, you'll have no problem providing a bit of supporting evidence for them, I'm sure. In the meantime, don't be worrying yourself about my status or, speaking of the impenetrably ridiculous, the state of my windows.

Most of what I have presented can be found in any decent historical text, if you choose to deny Irish history there isn't much I can do for you. In the meantime here's a wee bit of background on IRMS to get you started

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Risk_Management_Services

Ah, Wiki. That settles that, then. Anyway, even accepting the unimpeachable veracity of Wikipedia, what does that entry contain other than allegations? And even if this company was the modern day reincarnation of the SS, what has it got to do with the Irish Army? Go again.

And while you're at it, I'm beside myself with anticipation of your substantiation of your claim that "the same garrison families who provided the officer corps of Britain's Irish regiments have consistently formed the backbone of the 26C officer corps" and your explanation of the ludicrous statement that "The 26C army has never been anything other than the willing henchman of the 26C state".

The henchman bit would describe their traditional willingness to execute their countrymen through firing squad or atrocity. You can be sure that such tradition is factored into the training; particularly of the elite/death squad units such as the ARW.......this is exemplified in IRMS.

[Cáthasaigh]

I see you have provided some hard evidence there newbie 

According to your link, this company does the following

"Services ProvidedI-RMS provide the following services:

Corporate: Business risk consultancy, Logistics security, Surveillance & counter surveillance.
Standard Security: Guarding ,Cash in transit, Patrols, Key holding.
Events Services: Corporate & private events,Festivals & sporting occasions, security personnel, Mobile ATMs.
Special Services: Security consultancy, Courier services, International security project management"

I fail to see what the problem is with that unless you don't want to be caught ripping an ATM out of a bank wall, want to sell Es to youngsters at concerts, riot at a sports event, rob a security van or physically assault the tax paying employees of a corporation.

Interesing that you completely ignore complicity in the CIA-backed, attempted right-wing overthrow of the democratically elected government of Bolivia, assaults on Irish people at Corrib and IRMS's office in Mombasa where they source out mercenaries to participate in the rape of Africa. If you're at any higher level that Fine Gael Jugend I would really have to laugh.