Election 2011 Offical Thread.

[mylestheslasher]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.

It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU

If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html

[Hardy]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

[muppet]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.

It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU

If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html

I don't know, ask him yourself. All I know is that their history goes back to an out of the blue filleting Brown gave Kenny as a young TD in the early 1980s. If Kenny wants to give two fingers to a narcissist, it might not be the cleverest thing to do, but so big deal?

Before the end of the year social welfare, pensions and all public service jobs are likely to be on reduced or no pay as we default thanks to the two Brian's banking policy. How is it possible that an educated country, that knows this is coming, is ignoring it over a spat between a poor public image and a narcissist?

[AZOffaly]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it? There is a 30 year history between them which is the issue there.

It is very annoying that people see the likes of serial interrupters such as Dobson and Brown as intelligent interviewers. It gets worse when they have more than one interviewee which simply descends into farce such as the Joan Burton fiasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU

If there is a 30 year history then why is Kenny saying he won't go on the show because of the suicide remark (for which Browne apologised)

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0204/brownev.html

I don't know, ask him yourself. All I know is that their history goes back to an out of the blue filleting Brown gave Kenny as a young TD in the early 1980s. If Kenny wants to give two fingers to a narcissist, it might not be the cleverest thing to do, but so big deal?

Before the end of the year social welfare, pensions and all public service jobs are likely to be on reduced or no pay as we default thanks to the two Brian's banking policy. How is it possible that an educated country, that knows this is coming, is ignoring it over a spat between a poor public image and a narcissist?

Muppet, why doesn't Kenny use any platform he is offered to explain to us poor ignorant nyucks what he's going to do about preventing what you've outlined? How is it possible that an educated man doesn't see this as being to his benefit? Could it be that he has no answers, and doesn't want that exposed?

I'm not voting FF this time around, I'm begging someone to tell me why I should vote for them (FG/Lab/SF/Other).

**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation to the current incumbents.

[muppet]

**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation  the current incumbents.

I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.

As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.

No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:

1) To  vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.

[AZOffaly]

**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation  the current incumbents.

I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.

As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.

No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:

1) To  vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.

If you think FG or any other politicians will promise to jail anyone I think you're set to be disappointed.  Surely there are alternatives to defaulting? How about burning the banks and letting them go to hell in a handbasket?

[muppet]

**Edit. I think you're trivialising the 'spat' as well. You seem to think it's about Kenny being criticised for being a 'coward'. I see it rather as a criticism of him not being open with potential voters, something that he was very critical about in relation  the current incumbents.

I accept you see it as an honest broker, but there are others with the ad hominem agenda.

As for policy to prevent the default. I think it is way too late. I think they all know there is nothing that can be done other than damage limitation so. My vote is not to save the country, we are two years to late, my vote will be for any party that promises to jail those who put us here.

No party has promised that so I intend to vote FG for two reasons:

1) To  vote for a party that might actually replace FF in Government after an election.
2) They are least likely to raise taxes to 60% or higher. Note I said least.

If you think FG or any other politicians will promise to jail anyone I think you're set to be disappointed.  Surely there are alternatives to defaulting? How about burning the banks and letting them go to hell in a handbasket?

I dont think FG will jail anyone and I thought my post made that clear.

Letting the some of banks go should have been done two years ago. I even suggested that the day after the Guarantee. However the senior bondholders at that time have already been paid back using State collateral. If anyone can find a way out of that mess then they are welcome to my vote but it is not as simple as saying separate the debt. Lenihan and co have done everything they can to prevent that from happening.

[muppet]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.

If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?

[mylestheslasher]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.

If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?

Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did

[muppet]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.

If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?

Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did

And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?

[mylestheslasher]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.

If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?

Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did

And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?

Which, I presume, is why he apologised.

Got my first canvas tonight from FG. Two local lads that I know so couldn't really go to town on them. I'll probably give FG a 3rd preference which is up about 10 from any previous election.

[muppet]

Hardy, if Brown simply meant Kenny to resign why would he feel the need to retract it?

I don't think you really think he meant for him to shoot himself. I'd say the retraction was succumbing to hassle from his bosses. Given the reaction here, I can imagine TV3 got a lot of flak from people who don't recognise it as a common metaphor for resignation with dignity. I didn't realise it wasn't generally recognised as such. I have certainly never understood it to mean that someone should literally go away and shoot himself and, as I said, I've used it myself intending the "leave with honour" meaning.

As an aside, I always thought the metaphor was a dark room, a bottle of Vodka and a revolver.

If Ross is right about the Russian Generals in WW2 being the source of the quote, then it was hardly the Whiskey suggested by Vincent Brown?

Ah come on muppet, anyone could slip up and mix up whiskey and vodka in such a statement. Hardly crime of the century if that is all he did

And anyone could think he meant suicide. See?

Which, I presume, is why he apologised.

Got my first canvas tonight from FG. Two local lads that I know so couldn't really go to town on them. I'll probably give FG a 3rd preference which is up about 10 from any previous election.

And offered to stand aside. If he thought he had a leg to stand on then surely the great self-appointed intellectual juggernaut that is Vincent Brown would have stood his ground?

[Maguire01]

Any way to watch the debate online? No TV3 up here.

[muppet]

The hints are slowly getting stronger and stronger:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0208/economy-business.html

Ireland 'needs EU help with banks'
Updated: 15:00, Tuesday, 8 February 2011

Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.

A report from Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.
In a report on Irish debt levels, Goodbody says there should be some form of risk-sharing with bondholders. But it adds that Ireland cannot do this on its own, and should push for a Europe-wide solution to the problem.
Goodbody says some €21 billion of bank debt should be restructured now - otherwise there will have to be a restructuring of Irish sovereign debt some time after 2014. Goodbody economist Dermot O'Leary says a new government must act urgently, as two-thirds of these bondholders are due to be repaid over the next 24 months.
Goodbody estimates the savings to the taxpayer could be around €10 billion if a 50% haircut were applied to the outstanding stock of unsecured, unguaranteed senior and subordinate bondholders.
The stockbroker believes Ireland will not reach the target of a 3% of GDP budget deficit by 2014, as foreseen under the four-year plan. Instead it believes the deficit will still be 4.3%, and the debt/GDP ratio will reach 115%.
The report also warns that reducing Ireland's debt to levels required by the EU Stability & Growth Pact could take 20 years of tight budgets, even if the targets set out for the next four years are met.
Goodbody says the costs of the banking crisis make it less likely that Ireland will be able to pay back its debts in the future. It has raised its estimate of the cost of the banking crisis to €57.5 billion or 36% of gross domestic product.
'The new Government has a small window of opportunity to convince the EU that it is in everyone's interest to implement a more comprehensive reform of the banking system, which recognises that the Irish sovereign can no longer support the burden alone,' said economist Dermot O'Leary.
Other options suggested by Goodbody are allowing the European Financial Stability Facility to directly recapitalise weak banking systems such as Ireland's or facilitate the sale of Irish banking assets through an EU-wide insurance scheme.
The Goodbody report also says a reduction in the interest rates charged under the EU/IMF bail-out is needed. It calculates that every one-point reduction saves €675m a year in interest payments.
Ireland will need more EU help to raise funds - NCB
Stockbroker NCB has said that Ireland will need further EU help after 2013 to raise funds. It says a lowering of the interest rate on EU loans would give Ireland a higher probability of weaning itself off aid by 2014.
The 'Ireland Moves Forward' report also identifies state assets that could be the first to be sold off to help the Government finances, including those in the areas of forestry, energy, networks and ports.
The report says Ireland can look forward to a two-tier jobless recovery in 2011 with exports continuing to grow but domestic demand remaining weak. It says that the country's competitiveness has improved significantly through the economic downturn.
It also points out that foreign direct investment in Ireland increased significantly last year, despite the global pot declining by 8%.
NCB says the country will be rolled into the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), the permanent EU crisis mechanism to replace the current European Financial Stability Fund.
It says a lowering of the interest rate on EU loans would give Ireland a higher probability of weaning itself off aid by 2014.
But it argues that any post-general election attempt renegotiation of the terms of the EU/IMF financial support for Ireland would lead to a deal that looks 'very similar' to the existing one.
It says the only changes would be in the exact details of how the €15 billion in budgetary corrections in coming years are achieved. However, NCB does see changes to the interest rate taken at a European level as likely in the coming months.
Today's report says the Irish banks remain reliant on the state for capital and on the ECB and Irish Central Bank for liquidity. It adds that the March stress tests will determine whether any additional capital is needed apart from the €10 billion already earmarked for the financial institutions.
NCB predicts that the National Asset Management Agency will be a major 'dictator of activity in 2011' and beyond.
NCB says the VHI, Coillte, Rosslare Port as well as energy sector assets like Bord Gáis and the ESB with generation and supply assets should be sold off ahead of network assets such as distribution and transmission.
Today's report also says there are further falls in house prices with a further 10% fall from peak levels expected.
NCB says that the Irish equity market is no longer a reflection of the Irish economy. The report notes that Irish derived profits now represent 17% of overall profit in its sample of recommended Irish shares. That compares to 36% in 2006.
It says publicly quoted food and construction companies are likely to be active acquirers of other businesses this year, while the area of renewable energy/cleantech industries continue to be an area of significant investor interest.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Ireland 'needs EU help with banks'
Updated: 15:00, Tuesday, 8 February 2011

Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own.

A report from Goodbody Stockbrokers has argued that the State cannot bear the losses from the banking crisis on its own...

In other words default is a certainty unless the burden is redistributed. They'll listen to the Shinners yet!