Election 2011 Offical Thread.

[muppet]

"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).

You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"

Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.

Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.

Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again. 

I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.

[Hound]

"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).

You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"

Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.

Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.

Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again. 

I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.

FFS Muppet. We've been talking about the banks for about 2 years or more. And we'll be talking about for another decade at least!

While its clearly the most important issue, we are allowed talk about other issues too!

Even though FG supporters and in particular it seems Mayo men, really don't want to talk about the fact that his own party don't want Kenny to take part in debates because they view him as a liability. How can he argue Irelands position successfully with the IMF, Europe and the ECB if he is viewed as a liability by his party organisers when he opens his mouth in debate?

Again, I note your only party line is vote Fine Gael, because we're not Fianna Fail!

And then you say to me: ..."what you have done to at least a generation".

You think I'm a FF'er just because I think the leader of Fine Gael is useless! That's typical   
I was a big supporter of John Boland and Nora Owen in Dublin North against the Ray Burke machine back in the day. I'm dying to hear parties come up with good reasons to vote for them (I've heard enough of why not to vote for others).

And personally I very much enjoy leadership debates

[stephenite]

From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?

Not far off: VB made the remark in a jocular fashion. He then immediately and subsequently apologised in writing to FG and Kenny, both of whom accepted fully the apology at the time. And since that time Browne & Kenny have socialised in the same pub, with no mention of that incident.

So suicide has plainly been used as a vehicle of politcal evasion.

[mylestheslasher]

From what I can gather Enda Kenny won't take part in an election debate involving Vincent Browne because Vinny advised to take a bottle of whiskey and a gun into a dark room, and Enda felt that this was offensive to suicide victims. Is this correct?

Not far off: VB made the remark in a jocular fashion. He then immediately and subsequently apologised in writing to FG and Kenny, both of whom accepted fully the apology at the time. And since that time Browne & Kenny have socialised in the same pub, with no mention of that incident.

So suicide has plainly been used as a vehicle of politcal evasion.

Plus Vincent Browne has offered to step away from the debate but still no go.

[stephenite]

Kenny is a f**king idiot of the highest order, all he'd have to do in any debate is continually point out where previous FF government, with current leader as a Senior minister, has landed us.

This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone

[muppet]

"Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down". (If you can show me where I used any excuse, never mind a ridiculous one I'll take my hat off to you).

You refuse to deviate from the 15 year long media/FF mantra of 'blame the opposition' and you say "Talk about what I want to talk about, or I'll shoot you down"

Ireland is drowning in a tsunami of debt and you only want to talk about a media stunt. Two days after any debate it will be forgotten. We will still owe the world €550,000,000,000 and are currently on the hook for around 40% (and rapidly rising) of that.

Your 'blame the opposition at every opportunity' is tried and tested but this time round it is irrelevent in the face of what you have done to at least a generation.

Despite that I still predict this country is stupid enough to return Fianna Fail to power. 100 years ago we were poorer than Albania. We are nearly back there again. 

I don't care if we elect Enda Kenny's talking teddy bear as Taoiseach as long as those that put us back into poverty are lynched at the polls.

FFS Muppet. We've been talking about the banks for about 2 years or more. And we'll be talking about for another decade at least!

What exactly is your point here? That we should or shouldn't talk about it? We are the epicentre of a financial crisis that will remove the words 'Wall Street Crash' from future comparisons.

While its clearly the most important issue, we are allowed talk about other issues too!

That being the only issue which you want to talk about which is one (not all as you misleadingly suggest) of the 3 leadership debates.

Even though FG supporters and in particular it seems Mayo men, really don't want to talk about the fact that his own party don't want Kenny to take part in debates because they view him as a liability. How can he argue Irelands position successfully with the IMF, Europe and the ECB if he is viewed as a liability by his party organisers when he opens his mouth in debate?

None of this is remotely true and betrays your loyalties. The only debate he will miss is the first one, with Vincent Brown. Kenny's row with Brown is 30 years old and while Kenny may be foolish in continuing it, Brown is the usual type of tosser that appeals to a small irreverent part of our society. There are many posters here who will defend Alex Ferguson to the hilt even though he won't do interviews with the BBC. Charlton wouldn't talk to Dunphy. George Bush only answered pre-approved questions from the media (and the 'debates' were scripted as they will be here). Obama frequently does the same. The venom of some for Kenny on this issue isn't motivated by anything other than politics.

Again, I note your only party line is vote Fine Gael, because we're not Fianna Fail!

Ironically the reverse is precisely your only party line only substitute Kenny for FG. As for me I said I will vote for anyone that bans that organisation. Equally I would vote for anyone that renders all of FF/FG/Labour/SF/Greens type politics history. That option isn't available sadly but in the meantime a vote for FF/Greens/PD is a vote for catastrophic banking policy and a vote for economy collapsing cronyism. I will 'debate' with anyone that canvasses fro them overtly or covertly as I suspect you are doing.

And then you say to me: ..."what you have done to at least a generation".

You think I'm a FF'er just because I think the leader of Fine Gael is useless! That's typical   
I was a big supporter of John Boland and Nora Owen in Dublin North against the Ray Burke machine back in the day. I'm dying to hear parties come up with good reasons to vote for them (I've heard enough of why not to vote for others).

I think you are a FFer because you will only talk about how useless the only alternative to FF is. That has been the mantra for a decade and a half with Noonan and Bruton the boring.

And personally I very much enjoy leadership debates

Of course you do.

[All of a Sludden]

This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone

The sad thing is he will become taoiseach by doing sweet f.a. There are far more capable politicians within F.G. but somehow Kenny has seen off all comers when it comes to leadership challenges.  Hopefully FG will see sense early in the new Dail and get rid of him before he does any real damage.
Cant see a FG/Labour government lasting the distance.

[muppet]

This notion of just fudging and saying nothing until election day so he can become the leader of the country shows a staggering lack of integrity and backbone

The sad thing is he will become taoiseach by doing sweet f.a. There are far more capable politicians within F.G. but somehow Kenny has seen off all comers when it comes to leadership challenges.  Hopefully FG will see sense early in the new Dail and get rid of him before he does any real damage.
Cant see a FG/Labour government lasting the distance.

What would you propose in its place?

[All of a Sludden]

I would prefer to see a one party government, even FG. Coalitions don't work, as has been proven time and again. The smaller party gives up all its principals for a seat in government. Look at the PDs, remember them and now the Greens who will probably end up with only 1 seat after the election.
They say we get the government we deserve. We don't seem to be able to make up our minds, hence all these coalitions.

[muppet]

I would prefer to see a one party government, even FG. Coalitions don't work, as has been proven time and again. The smaller party gives up all its principals for a seat in government. Look at the PDs, remember them and now the Greens who will probably end up with only 1 seat after the election.
They say we get the government we deserve. We don't seem to be able to make up our minds, hence all these coalitions.

I don't think there is a hope in hell of any party getting a majority.

In that case we are left with the options of various coalitions. The most likely is FG/Labour. If we get the best of both it could be quite good even despite the damage done up to now. If we get anything it will be disastrous.

For example Labour's liking for pandering to unions (I'm a former shop steward), and high taxes to pay for it, is not going to work in the next few Governments. Meanwhile FG are going to have to do better than their traditional 'FF policies but more realistic' position and both they and Labour are going to have to impose  taxes on their own normal support bases (something no party would dream of doing).

[stephenite]

(I'm a former shop steward)

I thought a beard was required to get that gig?

[muppet]

(I'm a former shop steward)

I thought a beard was required to get that gig?

You need an election to get the gig, you need a beard to keep it.

[muppet]

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/martin-plan-backfires-as-he-clings-to-euro90000-deal-day-of-reform-pledges-2529404.html

Martin plan backfires as he clings to €90,000 deal
Blow to FF leader on day of reform pledges

By Fionnan Sheahan, Aine Kerr and Fiach Kelly
Tuesday February 08 2011
NEW Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin's attempt to promote his new political reform package was overshadowed last night by his refusal to give up his €90,000 pay-off as a former minister.

He and the six remaining cabinet ministers will be paid almost €90,000 in severance payments over the next two years, even though they plan to continue as TDs.

They will get these payments to 'compensate' them for loss of ministerial salaries.

Mr Martin confirmed he will not give up these pay-ments, which Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has promised to abolish for future ministers.

The former Foreign Affairs Minister was sucker-punched by Fine Gael yesterday on the sensitive issue of cutting pay and conditions for ministers and was accused of "failing his first personal leadership test".

Additionally, just as he unveiled his plan for "fundamental, radical reform in government and politics", he also had to defend his past appointment of Celia Larkin to a state board.

After this election, former ministers will not pick up pensions if they continue as TDs.

But Mr Martin and the six remaining cabinet ministers will pick up payments of €88,745 over the next two years in goodbye money from their time in office.

"The existing severance payments stand and that's the way it will be," Mr Martin told the Irish Independent. On being asked a third time if he would take his severance payment, he replied: "Yes."

Mr Kenny, meanwhile, said his party's "radical" plan would "abolish severance pay for ministers leaving office". It would also cut the Taoiseach's and ministers' pay, reduce ministerial pensions, overhaul the expenses regime and ban corporate donations.

"Micheal Martin has spoken about reform from the moment he took over the Fianna Fail leadership and he has failed his first personal test on the matter," a Fine Gael spokesman said last night.

Mr Martin is already getting severance pay since he resigned last month.

Tanaiste Mary Coughlan and ministers Brian Lenihan, Mary Hanafin, Eamon O Cuiv, Brendan Smith and Pat Carey will also receive the payments once the new government is appointed after the election -- if they hold their seats.

Pension

If they fail to be elected, they will be automatically entitled to a ministerial and TD pension, which is often worth far more.

Former ministers receive severance payments for two years to compensate them for the loss of their ministerial salary. The payment is made on top of their TD salary of around €98,000.

Ministers who step down receive 75pc of the ministerial part of their salary for six months, 50pc for the next 12 months and 25pc for the next six months -- the equivalent of one year's ministerial salary.

Mr Martin said the severance payments being availed of by ministers are no different to the arrangements Labour leader Eamon Gilmore and Mr Kenny received "for a long, long time".

"In particular, Enda would have drawn a ministerial pension while serving as a TD for 13 years," he said.

However, Mr Martin's attempts to portray his party's proposals for political reform were yesterday contrasted with his own party's record in office.

His appointment of then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern's former partner Celia Larkin to the board of the National Consumer Agency in 2005 prompted accusations of political cronyism from the opposition.

[mylestheslasher]

Clear as day for anyone who thinks FF will change. Martin talking out of both sides of his mouth. If it is so clear why do I still get the sinking feeling that 20% of people in the state will still vote for them?