Irish Involvement in the American Civil War

[thejuice]

Just recently been doing some reading up on the American civil war (and have read a number of books on the wars with the Natives as well), can any one recommend a good book (or movies) covering the Irish Brigades.

I;ve read bits here and there, we've certainly left a few cultural marks on the US military, every now and again when I hear US military marching music in movies or documentaries its sometimes easy to pick out the traditional tunes they've come from.

Was reading about Thomas Meagher who seems to have lead a chequered career with early glory then later embodying the drunken stereotype.

Anyone know of any other good stories or characters to look up? The thing that piqued my interest was actually watching "They Died With Their Boots On" the soldiers marching tune was "Garryowen", first sung by an Englishman in the movie. 

I prefer Robert Shaw's portrayal of Custer to Errol Flynn's. Though how accurate either portrayal is, is questionable.

[Celt_Man]

It's an interesting topic alright.  I remember watching an American Civil War movie, I pretty sure it was Gods and Generals which I think was about the Battle of Bull Run but one scene in it was amazing - for want of a better word - and harrowing.

One of the Irish Brigades on the Union side attacking the Irish Brigade on the Conferate side and they basically slaughtered each other.  Going half ways around the world to escape whatever or to seek unknown opportunities and they end up fighting and killing their fellow countrymen....

[Ulick]

I have a few books on the Irish involvement but IMO the definitive one is "Green, Blue and Grey: The Irish in the American Civil War"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Green-Blue-Grey-Irish-American/dp/1905172982.

Shocking amount of Irish involvement (and death) on both sides particularly in places like New Orleans where you'd never really have thought would have had many Irish. The book above outlines every engagement of pretty much every Irish company on both sides and some really curious episodes such as Fenian meetings held on the eve of battles attended by men from both sides. 

[Denn Forever]

General Sheridan from Kilinkere in Cavan.

He wasn't too kind the native americans.

[Hardy]

Not the Civil War, but a documentary starting now (9:00) on TG4 about the Irish who died defending Texas against the Mexicans.

[Rav67]

I think John Mitchel's son or sons fought on the Confederate side. Mitchel himself was a strong advocate of slavery.  A bit of an embarassment that there's so many GAA clubs named after him actually..

[Lecale2]

Great scene in "God and Generals" of the Union Irish Brigade charge at Fredericksburg. They were charging a Georgian Regiment who were also Irish. Sad.

[Hardy]

That documentary wasn't up to much. One interesting point - there were more in the Alamo, iconic symbol of freedom that it is, than the famous 180 who died.

At one point it casually mentioned that when Santa Ana finally took it he let go the women, children and slaves.

[moysider]

Just recently been doing some reading up on the American civil war (and have read a number of books on the wars with the Natives as well), can any one recommend a good book (or movies) covering the Irish Brigades.

I;ve read bits here and there, we've certainly left a few cultural marks on the US military, every now and again when I hear US military marching music in movies or documentaries its sometimes easy to pick out the traditional tunes they've come from.

Was reading about Thomas Meagher who seems to have lead a chequered career with early glory then later embodying the drunken stereotype.

Anyone know of any other good stories or characters to look up? The thing that piqued my interest was actually watching "They Died With Their Boots On" the soldiers marching tune was "Garryowen", first sung by an Englishman in the movie. 

I prefer Robert Shaw's portrayal of Custer to Errol Flynn's. Though how accurate either portrayal is, is questionable.

Many of those who died at the Battle of The Little Big Horn were raw Irish recruits. A new book by Nathaniel Philbrick on this battle looks very promising ( I m saving it for holiday reading). I wouldn't be great on the civil war at all though. The Indian wars and the frontier s march westwards I would be more up on. Dee Brown s The American West and Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee are excellent reads. In fact the latter is probably the saddest book I ve ever read.

I must check out Ulicks recommendation ' Green, Blue and Grey, The Irish in the American Civil War'.

[J70]

Agree about Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. Blood-boiling stuff. If you ever get a chance, watch Ric Burns' 1995 series on the defeat of the northern plains Indians. Six parts, one each of which deal exclusively with the Little Bighorn and the Ghost Dance. Dee Brown features a lot and presumably was a major source of info. Its called The Way West in the states. It was either The Wild West or The West in its Irish/British release.

On the US Civil War, how any Irishman (fleeing oppression at home) could have found cause with the south and the evil it represented is beyond me. And the New York draft riots is definitely one of the more shameful episodes in the history of the Irish people.

[moysider]

Agree. How Irish people starved out of their own country ended up taking part in one of the worst cases of ethnic cleansing ever is beyond belief. But, hey, maybe I mgetting off point here.

[thejuice]

Thanks for those. I agree Moysider, Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee is absolutely harrowing. A great book but would burn your soul reading it.

One thing I've gathered from it is how the Irish were largely the only Immigrant group to have their own regiment, (something the Republicans tried to abolish). There were more German immigrants than Irish but they were happy to just blend in among the rank and file. Custer (Küster) was the son of a German immigrants. 

Perhaps its because of the circumstances under which we arrived. Irish were fleeing poverty and persecution, arrived and were looked down upon, the Germans had been among the first settlers, though some were fleeing religious persecution and revolutions, they were more accepted.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Bloody hell lads. I've got Wounded Knee on the shelf here in front of me - been meaning to read it for ages. It'll be ages more. Not in the mood for having my heart broken or my soul burned.

On Moysider's point - one of the things I've learned from history is that people aren't opposed so much to genocide or slavery so much as they're opposed to genocide or slavery happening to them. The Irish did their share of butchering under Havelock after the Indian Mutiny too. Didn't we name a square after him?

You know the Choctaw nation sent money here during the Famine? This was after their own lands had been claimed by the US Government and they'd been driven west, like cattle. I can never get over that. Ireland would have meant nothing to them, and still they did it, when they had nothing themselves. Amazing.

[Celt_Man]

On the US Civil War, how any Irishman (fleeing oppression at home) could have found cause with the south and the evil it represented is beyond me. And the New York draft riots is definitely one of the more shameful episodes in the history of the Irish people.

Hmmm I could hazard a guess and say that the South's whole idea of secession from the Union and the independence and autonomy it could give, would have stuck a cord with thousands of Irish leaving these shores seeking freedom from British oppression!

The American Civil War was certainly not all about the noble cause of slavery!!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

You know the Choctaw nation sent money here during the Famine? This was after their own lands had been claimed by the US Government and they'd been driven west, like cattle. I can never get over that. Ireland would have meant nothing to them, and still they did it, when they had nothing themselves. Amazing.

Anseo Iolair: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000079641443&ref=search