Mc Hughs call for radical fix for club football

[haranguerer]

With the overall set-up as it is at the minute, it is easy to forecast the demise of the clubs; however, imo, were there moves towards professionalism (which wont be for a while yet), I think it would be through the clubs, and probably somewhat at the demise of the IC, initally at least, rather than vice-versa.

Are you for real? How many GAA clubs do you know of that are anywhere near wealthy enough to support professionalism?

Slow down Brains. By not a while yet, I mean 10 - 15 yrs at the very least. And I didn't think anyone thinks that one day we'll have amateur players, the next day they're getting 50k a week....
A lot of the current structures will change first, including the distribution of money. A regular league involving the top club teams will bring in decent crowds, and generate TV money, sponsorship, etc.

You seem to have a problem with it being clubs, rather than counties that turn professional; at the min thats all anyone seems to see because its the top level. However, the problem I see is that if county players are paid, they become assets for their county, and will not be allowed to play many (if any) club games. Yet it will still be the clubs who will be producing these players.

It thus becomes counter productive to produce top class players if you're going to lose them to the county. The only way you can hang onto them is to match the wage, and get them to declare for club rather than county. This is what I can see happening, and will lead to the club championship becoming as important as, and eventually surpassing, the intercounty championship, at which point intercounty matches are cut back, i.e league done away with or championship played every 2 yrs, for e.g.

Granted, it is a bit of crystal ball gazing, at the end of the day none of us know what twists the course of professionalism will take, but I'm sure its inevitable, and this is the most likely way for it to be maintained imo.

[mountainboii]

Other professional team sports on this island cannot sustain more than a handful of professional teams, despite drawing support from infinitely larger populations bases than your average GAA club. Whats going to happen over the next 10-15 years that will allow a parish of a couple of thousand support 20-30 professional footballers, even on the most modest wages.

Professionalism would be unsustainable at intercounty level, never mind club level.

[dowling]

"However, the problem I see is that if county players are paid, they become assets for their county, and will not be allowed to play many (if any) club games."

Haranguerer you need to think about that a wee bit more. That's one of the problems those of us who are anti gpa see but unlike you we don't see the gpa focusing on the club player.

As for Martin McHugh ideas they seem to be in a football context only and not a GAA one. Zulu alluded to the duel player but what consideration has the playing of hurling been given in all this? There doesn't seem to be any.
A bit more effeciency in running leagues and championships by county boards without hindrence from clubs would be a good starting point.
I've always believed that leagues, even the national leagues in some way, should be relevent to championship, perhaps in relation to championship seeding so that there's more to gain or lose and more incentive to play matches.

[haranguerer]

The point is that its not your average GAA club. This would involve only the top club teams in Ireland. The majority of GAA clubs will never get to that level: the majority of their (that is the local clubs) supporters would also support a top level team, probably one they're close to geographically. Bearing in mind that there would be professional status, (this'll give you another fit...) there would be transfers, so certain local clubs would have connections to larger clubs - i.e. as feeder clubs or whatever; this would be another basis on which support would be split.

Professionalism in the GAA is sustainable at sensible levels, and indeed, will be necessary in years to come for the development of the game. Gaelic games are much more widely supported than either soccer or rugby on these islands, both of which, despite being run seemingly by imbeciles, manage to maintain professional status.

Just noticed your point when i went to post, Dowling - I have not considered the GPA at all - I'm talking about where I see the GAA going in broad terms over the next 20-30 years - I think these changes will occur almost naturally, I'm not sure the GPA themselves have any vision of their own future.

[ha ha derry]

"However, the problem I see is that if county players are paid, they become assets for their county, and will not be allowed to play many (if any) club games."

Haranguerer you need to think about that a wee bit more. That's one of the problems those of us who are anti gpa see but unlike you we don't see the gpa focusing on the club player.

As for Martin McHugh ideas they seem to be in a football context only and not a GAA one. Zulu alluded to the duel player but what consideration has the playing of hurling been given in all this? There doesn't seem to be any.
A bit more effeciency in running leagues and championships by county boards without hindrence from clubs would be a good starting point.
I've always believed that leagues, even the national leagues in some way, should be relevent to championship, perhaps in relation to championship seeding so that there's more to gain or lose and more incentive to play matches.

In my best DUP accent here here, I agree 100%.

[mountainboii]

The point is that its not your average GAA club. This would involve only the top club teams in Ireland. The majority of GAA clubs will never get to that level: the majority of their (that is the local clubs) supporters would also support a top level team, probably one they're close to geographically. Bearing in mind that there would be professional status, (this'll give you another fit...) there would be transfers, so certain local clubs would have connections to larger clubs - i.e. as feeder clubs or whatever; this would be another basis on which support would be split.

These 'top club teams', supplemented by local feeder clubs, sound very similar to what we now call county teams.

Professionalism in the GAA is sustainable at sensible levels, and indeed, will be necessary in years to come for the development of the game.

Can you provide any evidence for this? Or is it just a hunch? At a glance, most county boards don't seem to have massive surpluses that could be ploughed into player wages. What will change in the future? The isn't that much potential for additional attendances, and I can't see a professional era attracting significantly more sponsorship than at present.

Gaelic games are much more widely supported than either soccer or rugby on these islands, both of which, despite being run seemingly by imbeciles, manage to maintain professional status.

In rugby's case, a whole four teams, despite the additional benefits of European competition. Professional soccer in Ireland isn't even worth mentioning, if anything it should be held up as a deterrent for anyone thinking of persuing this path.

[pearseog]

The point is that its not your average GAA club. This would involve only the top club teams in Ireland. The majority of GAA clubs will never get to that level: the majority of their (that is the local clubs) supporters would also support a top level team, probably one they're close to geographically. Bearing in mind that there would be professional status, (this'll give you another fit...) there would be transfers, so certain local clubs would have connections to larger clubs - i.e. as feeder clubs or whatever; this would be another basis on which support would be split.

Professionalism in the GAA is sustainable at sensible levels, and indeed, will be necessary in years to come for the development of the game. Gaelic games are much more widely supported than either soccer or rugby on these islands, both of which, despite being run seemingly by imbeciles, manage to maintain professional status.

Just noticed your point when i went to post, Dowling - I have not considered the GPA at all - I'm talking about where I see the GAA going in broad terms over the next 20-30 years - I think these changes will occur almost naturally, I'm not sure the GPA themselves have any vision of their own future.

if this was to happen it would also see most of the big rivalries in club football disappear. in order for clubs to maintain professionalism, big clubs would have to amalgamlate. thus meaning more membership, bigger attendances etc. however this could cause splits in clubs and ultimatley lead to the downfall of professionalism in the gaa

[BennyHarp]

Am i missing something? I didnt get to read the full article by McHugh - but did he make some suggestion about the clubs going professional? If not, why have people jumped to this conclusion on this thread? My understanding is that he wants a higher profile to be given to the club game - this doesnt have to be in a professional capacity!

[haranguerer]

No, he didn't - the debate has moved into that, I think mainly because I said his idea is roughly how I envision professional competitions in the future, i.e. club based.

[thewanderer]

There seems to be a lot of misinterpretation going on in this debate. There is no desire or request for club or county to become professional. If it happened you can forget about the gaa surviving all the club volunteers will disappear and you wont have games.

[BennyHarp]

No, he didn't - the debate has moved into that, I think mainly because I said his idea is roughly how I envision professional competitions in the future, i.e. club based.

When someone makes a suggestion about how we can develop the game - and i think this idea has its merits though not perfect - there is always someone who needlessly "moves the debate on" to professionalism! This provincial club championship idea from McHugh in no way requires professionalism, so moving the debate this way is pointless!

[haranguerer]

Benny, If you'd bothered your arse to read the thread you wouldnt have had to post a stupid question that i had the decency to answer.

If a point is made in a post and someone responds to it, should not a response to that be made? Is it not pretty much the point of discussion boards? Threads often take turns - why dont you go over onto the Robinson thread for eg and tell them off for not sticking to the title - last I checked they're talking about scotlands independence.

Professionalism is the biggest issue in the GAA at the min, hardly surprising it comes up frequently in GAA related debate.

[BennyHarp]

I dont agree that professionalism is the biggest issue facing the GAA at the minute - there is very few people round my club and who i come into contact give a rats ass about professionalism at the minute - but would be interested in an ulster club champinship for example! There is too many scaremongers who bring up professionalsim to beat down any suggestion that is made! And what has the Robinsons got to do with this thread? You plainly have a talent for irrelevance?

[Hardy]

I dont agree that professionalism is the biggest issue facing the GAA at the minute - there is very few people round my club and who i come into contact give a rats ass about professionalism at the minute

Which is precisely how professionalism gets introduced. Those pushing the professionalism agenda are working on it full time while the majority don't even know it's on the agenda until after they've been sleepwalked into it because they didn't "give a rat's ass".

[BennyHarp]

I'll make a bold prediction here and this can be brought back up to haunt me if anyone wishes to do so - but there will never in any of our life time be a professional club football scene in the GAA! Its is not the biggest issue face our club players and this suggestion by McHugh was specifically a club based suggestion! So I feel its not relevant in this discussion - we should be focusing on the merits of the idea - how could we fit it in? Is there a demand for it? Would it add to the profile of the clubs? Would it cause burn out amongst our players? Would TV be interested? Would clubs treat it seriously? Would people attend it? Would it add to or detract from local rivalries? Will it produce new rivalries? Would one counties clubs dominate? When i first read the first post in this thread i never in a million years would have thought - will it lead to professionalism?