Ulster JFC/IFC 2026

[statto]

Championship will always be top dog but the league is taken a hell of a lot more seriously these days. It is not easy winning a senior competition in Armagh. We have a competitive championship and a very competitive league at senior level. Ask anyone from Madden, Killeavy, Dromintee, Clann Eireann and I guarantee they absolutely cherish their league medals. As for missing county players. I don't think any of the clubs relegated to intermediate or junior had any county men.

Cullyhanna did a few years ago and they pissed the intermediate the following year before going on to win the AI at that level. Tor na nog have been flirting with dropping down to junior lately-their best player misses the vast majority of their league games every season as he's with the county team. Personally I don't think it's fair that championship grades are dictated by league performance but I also accept that my view is a minority one within the county at the moment.

Cullyhanna were deservedly relegated that year. Had their county men back for tail end of league and still went down. By the same token they secured back to back promotions, mostly without their county men to reach 1A.

Tír na nÓg's fortunes arent really going to be dictated by Conaty's availability, likewise St Paul's with Murnin and Belleeks with O'Neill. They all had poor showings in the league and equally poor showings with their county men on board for championship. Maybe at junior level a county player will make a huge difference but at intermediate and senior level I don't think it's the same. 

Belleek and St Pauls also had a number of other key players missing throughout the league.  There is a significant difference playing these teams when these men are available and when they are not. 

Belleek lost to Keady by one point a game they should have won(having knocked out Ballymacnab the previous round) who subsequently where a kick of the ball from winning the championship.  St Pauls topped their group and made a semi final so their championships weren't as bad as you would make out. 

[statto]

Cullyhanna deservedly dropped down due to a lot more reasons than the county players. Their championship performances weren't pulling up any trees either before they went down.

I agree they hadn't been great for a few years. They were still nowhere near the level of an intermediate team, as was shown by the manner they won the intermediate championship a year later.
I feel having relegation between the grades linked to championship performances is a much fairer system. However, as I said already, I accept this is unlikely to happen as the majority clearly prefer the current set up.

Tír na nÓg are close to junior standard and St Paul's are on the way out and won't be far behind them in the next year or two.

My point is that they could be relegated to a lower level of championship based off league performances. Without Conaty for the majority of their games is obviously a massive factor.

Players make a difference to a team, but they are where they are without them also.  In Armagh, the heavily favoured teams during the league went on to win the championships.  At junior, Ballyheagan won the league without their county man and were heavily favoured based off their league form to win the championship. 

St Peters/Ogs were heavily favoured to win the intermediate league and championship at the start of the year also.  One won the league, the other won the championship (not fully sure, but no established county men in either team if any). 

No one was giving TirNaNog, St.Pauls or Beleek a chance at intermediate with their county men back. 

Personally, I feel playing at a higher level in league and going into a lower championship will give that team an advantage. In Armagh anyway, the players are better, pace is a bit faster, some teams are better organised. 

For that reason I wouldn't be shocked to see either St.Peters or the Ogs drop down again next year.  Best of luck to the Armagh teams out this weekend. 

Belleek struggled in the league for a combination of reasons, injuries being the main one. Once at full strength they put in a decent showing in the championship.
I take your point about the teams that won the league backing it up come championship. Last year however we had a situation where Tullysaran won the intermediate league before getting trounced in championship against teams who had their county men available. They then spent this year at senior level when they likely would have only been 4th/5th favourites for an intermedidate championship. That said, I'm sure they welcomed the opportunity to compete against the likes of Cross and Madden in the group stage.

Tullysaran lost to Wolfe Tones and Clann Eireann Seconds neither with county men and the last game against Shanes was a dead rubber as they where already out.

They also invested so much into winning the league as they where a team that had never been in senior. I would expect that they will be in the mix for an intermediate next season as they won't have as much emphasis on the league. 



 

[Armagh18]

On Cullyhanna, the team that went down was definitely an intermediate standard team but a combination of county men returning, injuries clearing up, lads back from travelling a couple of young lads developing and most importantly a total reset of standards and boot up the hole across the board, according to lads involved.

From memory Tullysaran just didn't turn up in the intermediate championship that year, I think Wolfe Tones and Clann Eireann seconds beat them, definitely not world beaters of teams and none have county men

[Armagh18]

Cullyhanna deservedly dropped down due to a lot more reasons than the county players. Their championship performances weren't pulling up any trees either before they went down.

I agree they hadn't been great for a few years. They were still nowhere near the level of an intermediate team, as was shown by the manner they won the intermediate championship a year later.
I feel having relegation between the grades linked to championship performances is a much fairer system. However, as I said already, I accept this is unlikely to happen as the majority clearly prefer the current set up.

Tír na nÓg are close to junior standard and St Paul's are on the way out and won't be far behind them in the next year or two.

My point is that they could be relegated to a lower level of championship based off league performances. Without Conaty for the majority of their games is obviously a massive factor.

Players make a difference to a team, but they are where they are without them also.  In Armagh, the heavily favoured teams during the league went on to win the championships.  At junior, Ballyheagan won the league without their county man and were heavily favoured based off their league form to win the championship. 

St Peters/Ogs were heavily favoured to win the intermediate league and championship at the start of the year also.  One won the league, the other won the championship (not fully sure, but no established county men in either team if any). 

No one was giving TirNaNog, St.Pauls or Beleek a chance at intermediate with their county men back. 

Personally, I feel playing at a higher level in league and going into a lower championship will give that team an advantage. In Armagh anyway, the players are better, pace is a bit faster, some teams are better organised. 

For that reason I wouldn't be shocked to see either St.Peters or the Ogs drop down again next year.  Best of luck to the Armagh teams out this weekend. 

Belleek struggled in the league for a combination of reasons, injuries being the main one. Once at full strength they put in a decent showing in the championship.
I take your point about the teams that won the league backing it up come championship. Last year however we had a situation where Tullysaran won the intermediate league before getting trounced in championship against teams who had their county men available. They then spent this year at senior level when they likely would have only been 4th/5th favourites for an intermedidate championship. That said, I'm sure they welcomed the opportunity to compete against the likes of Cross and Madden in the group stage.

Tullysaran lost to Wolfe Tones and Clann Eireann Seconds neither with county men and the last game against Shanes was a dead rubber as they where already out.

They also invested so much into winning the league as they where a team that had never been in senior. I would expect that they will be in the mix for an intermediate next season as they won't have as much emphasis on the league. 



 

Hadn't read this post before I replied but totally agree. Anyway we're badly derailing this thread now.

[Dreadnought]

Say it every year. Whilst the JFC and IFC provincial and All Ireland competitions are extremely enjoyable and provide a pathway to Croke Park, they are in essence completely unbalanced lotteries. Mainly due to the different grading systems across the board and the lack of uniformity in competition eligibility.

Which is why the Junior and Inter are often called the biggest dwarf, as they aren't usually small time fairytale, but more a case of a cooked system, deliberate to deliver soft All-Irelands, Kerry and Cavan case in poin

Biggest to ever win the Junior, Ballinasloe or Na Gaeil
Biggest to ever win the Intermediate, Westport
Smallest to ever win the Senior, Caltra

There needs to be standardisation to manage Junior/Inter though doubt it'll happen

Soft All Ireland? What??

[Dreadnought]

Is it best though? Are Edendork not a prime example of where actually League is a very different thing?

A Division 1 club winning the senior championship?

Yes, but would have been in a relegation fight if we went by league, which shows it is mad as they were good enough to win the Championship

[general_lee]

Is it best though? Are Edendork not a prime example of where actually League is a very different thing?

A Division 1 club winning the senior championship?

Yes, but would have been in a relegation fight if we went by league, which shows it is mad as they were good enough to win the Championship

Not really. Not for Tyrone. A highly competitive, straight knockout competition. Didn't Trillick win a senior championship the year after winning Intermediate? Didn't Dungannon do something similar a year after coming up from Intermediate? Relegated Clonoe took Errigal to a replay the year they reached the AI final.

[barelegs]

Is it best though? Are Edendork not a prime example of where actually League is a very different thing?

A Division 1 club winning the senior championship?

Yes, but would have been in a relegation fight if we went by league, which shows it is mad as they were good enough to win the Championship

Not really. Not for Tyrone. A highly competitive, straight knockout competition. Didn't Trillick win a senior championship the year after winning Intermediate? Didn't Dungannon do something similar a year after coming up from Intermediate? Relegated Clonoe took Errigal to a replay the year they reached the AI final.

Trillick only went up in a league play-off having lost a championship final to Dungannon in 2014. Greencastle had won the Division 2 league that year. Trillick then won senior championship in 2015.

[Onhisboot]

Is it best though? Are Edendork not a prime example of where actually League is a very different thing?

A Division 1 club winning the senior championship?

Yes, but would have been in a relegation fight if we went by league, which shows it is mad as they were good enough to win the Championship

Your Argument on this shows how little you know about tyrone football. Its like saying the premier league is pointless because chelsea won the champions league in 2012 but came 6th in the league. Edendork had wat some would say was a fairly easy run to the final and found form. that does not discredit how league form normally matters towards championship. The teams that have been relegated most years are rarely affected by lack of county men for example in recent years clonoe moortown omagh eglish gortin

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Say it every year. Whilst the JFC and IFC provincial and All Ireland competitions are extremely enjoyable and provide a pathway to Croke Park, they are in essence completely unbalanced lotteries. Mainly due to the different grading systems across the board and the lack of uniformity in competition eligibility.

Which is why the Junior and Inter are often called the biggest dwarf, as they aren't usually small time fairytale, but more a case of a cooked system, deliberate to deliver soft All-Irelands, Kerry and Cavan case in point

Biggest to ever win the Junior, Ballinasloe or Na Gaeil
Biggest to ever win the Intermediate, Westport
Smallest to ever win the Senior, Caltra

There needs to be standardisation to manage Junior/Inter though doubt it'll happen

I dunno how you can say Cavan are cooking the system. We have 12 senior 14 intermediate and 13 junior teams. This is not cooking the system.

Clubs like Arva and Lacken getting relegated due to players emigrating and players getting injured and then getting them back to win junior is not cooking the system.

You can't automatically regrade a team just because they're too strong for junior by getting lads back from injury and emigration. You have to win a competition on merit.

If cavan only had 8 senior teams like Kerry I'd agree with you but we don't.

I agree there should be standardization and if there was standardization I don't think Cavan would be effected too much as they've a pretty even distribution of teams.

[general_lee]

Cavan just seems to have a habit of throwing up these anomalies. Butlersbridge finished one place above Lacken in Division 2. Compare that to St Peter's finishing 15 places and 2 divisions above Ballyhegan.

You can't automatically regrade a team just because they're too strong for junior

Yeah you can. Tyrone, Armagh and Monaghan do it.   

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Cavan just seems to have a habit of throwing up these anomalies. Butlersbridge finished one place above Lacken in Division 2. Compare that to St Peter's finishing 15 places and 2 divisions above Ballyhegan.

You can't automatically regrade a team just because they're too strong for junior

Yeah you can. Tyrone, Armagh and Monaghan do it.   

Cavan has thrown up a few anomalies I will give you that - but thats due to players emigrating leaving a club weak then when they get into bother (relegating to junior) getting the cavalry back.

Which was definitely the case with Lacken. - Maybe emigration is a bigger issue in Cavan than other counties or maybe its an issue in the clubs themselves - cant blame young lads for leaving though.

Arva was more of a perfect storm with alot of injuries, emmigration and plus some young lads that came through at the right time also. And even they couldnt win junior at the first attempt.

Didn't realize Tyrone Armagh and Monaghan did that - totally disagree with that approach a team has to prove it on the pitch. Why bother playing the games at all if we are regrading teams just because we think they are strong on paper.

[general_lee]

Didn't realize Tyrone Armagh and Monaghan did that - totally disagree with that approach a team has to prove it on the pitch. Why bother playing the games at all if we are regrading teams just because we think they are strong on paper.

They do it through league promotion, where it is proved over the course of a season.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Didn't realize Tyrone Armagh and Monaghan did that - totally disagree with that approach a team has to prove it on the pitch. Why bother playing the games at all if we are regrading teams just because we think they are strong on paper.

They do it through league promotion, where it is proved over the course of a season.

Through a diluted league without County players?

[rodney trotter]

Is it best though? Are Edendork not a prime example of where actually League is a very different thing?

A Division 1 club winning the senior championship?

Yes, but would have been in a relegation fight if we went by league, which shows it is mad as they were good enough to win the Championship

Not really. Not for Tyrone. A highly competitive, straight knockout competition. Didn't Trillick win a senior championship the year after winning Intermediate? Didn't Dungannon do something similar a year after coming up from Intermediate? Relegated Clonoe took Errigal to a replay the year they reached the AI final.

Trillick only went up in a league play-off having lost a championship final to Dungannon in 2014. Greencastle had won the Division 2 league that year. Trillick then won senior championship in 2015.

Which defeats the purpose of a championship. Losing the Intermediate final but playing Senior the following year