Man Utd Thread:

[marty34]

Manager is not the problem at OT.

[SaffronSports]

They've been repeating the same process for over a decade now. They had a very special manager in charge who created a unique atmosphere but let's be honest, even someone coming in to the modern game with Fergie's attitude would struggle as the balance of power is tipped so much towards the players now. Even if you come into United today, you can't do anything for two months in terms of personnel and even in January you can't make huge changes like the summer.

[gawa316]

Surely now is the time for the fans to rise up and attempt to get the owners out? I asked on here a few weeks ago if there was anything being done and didn't get a response...not sure if it was because there is nothing currently being done behind the scenes or people just don't know. Is Fergie still on the payroll? Never a bad word to say about the owners.

Next 5 in the league are away to Chelsea, home to Villa, away to Liverpool, home to Brentford, away to Newcastle...could seriously be cemented in the relegation zone after that run

[Blowitupref]

Journalist Melissa Reddy is among the best for calling out the situation as it is with Man United

It doesn't matter who is linked with becoming Manchester United manager, because whatever the name (and most of those in circulation have previously already been ruled out), they are set up to fail.

The parasitic Glazer ownership has bled and broken the club, putting a financial noose around it.

In 2024, Sir Jim Ratcliffe talked a big game about a "three-year plan" to rival and outdo Manchester City and Liverpool. But the decision-making under INEOS' charge of football operations has not just been woeful, but costly too. There is zero accountability for expensive mistake after expensive mistake.

There is still no clear direction on club identity, including style of play, which leads to profiling the right signings and manager. That was a major promise made by Ratcliffe, which hasn't been kept.

To borrow his own words: "There have been a whole series of coaches, some of which were very good. And none of them were successful, or survived for very long.
The only conclusion you can draw is that the environment in which they were working didn't work."

It still doesn't. It never will as long as the people who own and run the club betray Manchester United and what is required to be successful in the modern era.

You can harp on about structure, vision, and sell fanciful projects, but you will never have the right operation with the wrong people

[tiempo]

Surely now is the time for the fans to rise up and attempt to get the owners out?

Bunch of layabouts only good for rioting to get games called off
If there was work in the bed they'd sleep on the floor

[Look-Up!]

It's all right saying change the owners but that horse bolted years ago. There's too much damage done. Say new owners came in tomorrow, I don't know what actually changes. They cannot just wipe off the debt, that has to carry over for bookkeeping and FFP rules I believe. You cannot just dump players out of the club and write them down, some club must come in for them and want them. Otherwise it's a massive loss that triggers FFP penalties. It'd still be firefighting stuff.

Also, I cannot see any universe where relegation is an option. They would be at complete mercy of players who would need to walk away from their lucrative deals and take massively reduced contracts elsewhere and allow Utd the transfer fees. That's fantasy. Failing that they are goosed. You're probably talking a £350m hit to revenue straight away. They wouldn't be able to pay wages. That's a 12 point deduction. There'd probably be an addition 9 points deduction because loss making rules and limits are much stricter in championship. Writing off player contracts triggers more losses. Assuming they could stay afloat you're talking transfer embargos. Playing the U21 etc. I just think the club would cease to trade.

They'll plod along as best they can for now. Glazers will chance their arm at getting another dividend payout at some stage. Jim will tell them to GF themselves. He'll try get a safe manager in and run the club on a much tighter budget but trying to protect revenue and status and get the debt under control. And hope at some stage the Glazers get squeezed out. But flip side to that if debts reduce, profits increase and the club becomes a more attractive investment option, Glazers will want the moon and stars.

[tiempo]

Good summary 👆 basically fucked, over a horse

[Armagh18]

It's all right saying change the owners but that horse bolted years ago. There's too much damage done. Say new owners came in tomorrow, I don't know what actually changes. They cannot just wipe off the debt, that has to carry over for bookkeeping and FFP rules I believe. You cannot just dump players out of the club and write them down, some club must come in for them and want them. Otherwise it's a massive loss that triggers FFP penalties. It'd still be firefighting stuff.

Also, I cannot see any universe where relegation is an option. They would be at complete mercy of players who would need to walk away from their lucrative deals and take massively reduced contracts elsewhere and allow Utd the transfer fees. That's fantasy. Failing that they are goosed. You're probably talking a £350m hit to revenue straight away. They wouldn't be able to pay wages. That's a 12 point deduction. There'd probably be an addition 9 points deduction because loss making rules and limits are much stricter in championship. Writing off player contracts triggers more losses. Assuming they could stay afloat you're talking transfer embargos. Playing the U21 etc. I just think the club would cease to trade.

They'll plod along as best they can for now. Glazers will chance their arm at getting another dividend payout at some stage. Jim will tell them to GF themselves. He'll try get a safe manager in and run the club on a much tighter budget but trying to protect revenue and status and get the debt under control. And hope at some stage the Glazers get squeezed out. But flip side to that if debts reduce, profits increase and the club becomes a more attractive investment option, Glazers will want the moon and stars.

Not 100% sure but I think the leveraged debt that the Glazers put on the club when buying it can be paid off by a new owner (theoretically, but in reality who would be willing and able) but the outstanding transfer debt owed on the pile of shite they've bought in the last few years has to be paid off by money the club earns.

[Look-Up!]

It's all right saying change the owners but that horse bolted years ago. There's too much damage done. Say new owners came in tomorrow, I don't know what actually changes. They cannot just wipe off the debt, that has to carry over for bookkeeping and FFP rules I believe. You cannot just dump players out of the club and write them down, some club must come in for them and want them. Otherwise it's a massive loss that triggers FFP penalties. It'd still be firefighting stuff.

Also, I cannot see any universe where relegation is an option. They would be at complete mercy of players who would need to walk away from their lucrative deals and take massively reduced contracts elsewhere and allow Utd the transfer fees. That's fantasy. Failing that they are goosed. You're probably talking a £350m hit to revenue straight away. They wouldn't be able to pay wages. That's a 12 point deduction. There'd probably be an addition 9 points deduction because loss making rules and limits are much stricter in championship. Writing off player contracts triggers more losses. Assuming they could stay afloat you're talking transfer embargos. Playing the U21 etc. I just think the club would cease to trade.

They'll plod along as best they can for now. Glazers will chance their arm at getting another dividend payout at some stage. Jim will tell them to GF themselves. He'll try get a safe manager in and run the club on a much tighter budget but trying to protect revenue and status and get the debt under control. And hope at some stage the Glazers get squeezed out. But flip side to that if debts reduce, profits increase and the club becomes a more attractive investment option, Glazers will want the moon and stars.

Not 100% sure but I think the leveraged debt that the Glazers put on the club when buying it can be paid off by a new owner (theoretically, but in reality who would be willing and able) but the outstanding transfer debt owed on the pile of shite they've bought in the last few years has to be paid off by money the club earns.

Ok fair enough I didn't think they could.
 But looking at the numbers quickly it could not be done by any sane person. And it would probably only work with a 100% buyout. A partial shareholder trading debt for equity would be diluting other shareholder stakes and voting rights. Glazers would need to be literally facing ruin to agree to that.

And by legal requirement any new investor has to match what INEOS paid. That puts an implied valuation of at least £5.5bn on the club. Clear the debt £1bn. New stadium and infrastructure 2bn. That's £8.5bn for a 100% takeover. Even if you could guarantee unprecedented success for Utd going forward, and on top of that HMRC decided to exempt them from tax for the next 20 years, it still would not be a sane investment.

[Look-Up!]

Starting to understand the genuine anger Man Utd supporters feel towards the Glazers. Looking into them it's staggering what the PL have allowed them to do. All the talk of the shady dealings of City. Fair enough they broke rules. But they pumped in their own money and they heavily invested in the area. Good owners. For me what the Glazers have done is far far worse.

The numbers:
-They put up £270m of their own money in initial takeover and not a penny since. Between dividends and share sales they have since taken out £1.35bn of pure cash. They have paid, zero, ZERO tax on this profit to HMRC.
-They still own £4bn effective equity in the club. Theoretically they can sell this as pure profit and walk away with cash for themselves and again not pay a single penny to HMRC.
-The debt they created to buy their stake they walk away from. It's club debt. They are completely free of any obligation to this.
It's scandalous.

I know I said relegation or going bust is not an option for Utd but it's what the Glazers deserve. They should not get one penny more from the club. They are parasites. INEOS are getting stick at the moment but they paid £1.5bn of real cash, their own cash, to run this shitshow. I actually feel sorry for them. Glazers have them over a barrel.

The game really is corrupt to the core. All the talk about rules and City at the moment but realistically it's the Glazers and people like them who decide, or at least have a bigger say that most, in how the PL rules are written and implemented. Rotten to the core. Thank God it's a dodgy box I use.

[Blowitupref]

Going by reports it Looks like Carrick will be kept on until the international break at least?

Chelsea (A) Roma (H) Aston Villa (H)

Then Liverpool (A) for the new manager?

[Baile Brigín 2]

I'm not convinced the problem is money. Uniteds budget is more than competitive. It's who they feel is worth the money that is the problem. Too many committees

[Armagh18]

Starting to understand the genuine anger Man Utd supporters feel towards the Glazers. Looking into them it's staggering what the PL have allowed them to do. All the talk of the shady dealings of City. Fair enough they broke rules. But they pumped in their own money and they heavily invested in the area. Good owners. For me what the Glazers have done is far far worse.

The numbers:
-They put up £270m of their own money in initial takeover and not a penny since. Between dividends and share sales they have since taken out £1.35bn of pure cash. They have paid, zero, ZERO tax on this profit to HMRC.
-They still own £4bn effective equity in the club. Theoretically they can sell this as pure profit and walk away with cash for themselves and again not pay a single penny to HMRC.
-The debt they created to buy their stake they walk away from. It's club debt. They are completely free of any obligation to this.
It's scandalous.

I know I said relegation or going bust is not an option for Utd but it's what the Glazers deserve. They should not get one penny more from the club. They are parasites. INEOS are getting stick at the moment but they paid £1.5bn of real cash, their own cash, to run this shitshow. I actually feel sorry for them. Glazers have them over a barrel.

The game really is corrupt to the core. All the talk about rules and City at the moment but realistically it's the Glazers and people like them who decide, or at least have a bigger say that most, in how the PL rules are written and implemented. Rotten to the core. Thank God it's a dodgy box I use.

Totally agree. Absolute parasites. How on earth are they able to pull all that money out without being taxed at the very least

[Armamike]

It started with a horse and Ferguson's greed.

[Armamike]

Surely now is the time for the fans to rise up and attempt to get the owners out? I asked on here a few weeks ago if there was anything being done and didn't get a response...not sure if it was because there is nothing currently being done behind the scenes or people just don't know. Is Fergie still on the payroll? Never a bad word to say about the owners.

Next 5 in the league are away to Chelsea, home to Villa, away to Liverpool, home to Brentford, away to Newcastle...could seriously be cemented in the relegation zone after that run

Was just thinking about this lately.  Could the supporters not be doing more to heap pressure on the Glazers?  A few of them should get in touch with Spirit of Shankly for tips on how to get rid of parasitic owners!