Man Utd Thread:

[Milltown Row2]

Utd put out a poor team and were beaten well by the better side, they even looked worse when they brought on the 'star' players. They aint a bad side, they are just constantly being judged by the sports media and social media a lot worse because of what they have achieved and the size of club.

Expectations, some players and managers live up to that, others struggle, as has been the case since Fergie left..

As for the constant predictable post from someone on here about Roy Keane, f**k me! It's BORING and has absolutely no intention of bringing him in to the discussion of sensible conversation on modern day managers

If you could back up one simple argument for his inclusion as a coach/manager at Utd I'd like to hear it

[tiempo]

13, one for each year so far

1 He understands exactly what Manchester United standards used to look like day-to-day
2 He would bring authority into a dressing room that looks short of it
3 Poor effort, preparation and accountability would be challenged immediately
4 He captained United through one of the most successful periods in the club's history
5 He understands the unique pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for United
6 He has genuine senior management experience, not just ex-player status
7 He took Sunderland from the Championship relegation zone to promotion in his first season
8 He has international coaching experience with the Republic of Ireland
9 He would judge players on standards and performance, not reputation or transfer fee
10 He could be particularly valuable in mentoring younger players entering the first team
11 He has enough stature that senior players could not easily dismiss him
12 He would provide a hard edge in an environment that has gone soft
13 United keep talking about restoring standards, culture and accountability; Keane was the man Ferguson trusted to enforce all three

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Tiempo. The gift that keeps on giving 😄

Never stop never change 🤝

[JollyGreenGiant]

13, one for each year so far

1 He understands exactly what Manchester United standards used to look like day-to-day
2 He would bring authority into a dressing room that looks short of it
3 Poor effort, preparation and accountability would be challenged immediately
4 He captained United through one of the most successful periods in the club's history
5 He understands the unique pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for United
6 He has genuine senior management experience, not just ex-player status
7 He took Sunderland from the Championship relegation zone to promotion in his first season
8 He has international coaching experience with the Republic of Ireland
9 He would judge players on standards and performance, not reputation or transfer fee
10 He could be particularly valuable in mentoring younger players entering the first team
11 He has enough stature that senior players could not easily dismiss him
12 He would provide a hard edge in an environment that has gone soft
13 United keep talking about restoring standards, culture and accountability; Keane was the man Ferguson trusted to enforce all three

I think there are a few issues (although I appreciate the effort in identifying 13 good points for Keane).

First, his last truly successful managerial stint was with Sunderland almost 20 years ago. Thereafter, it has been underwhelming, or in a capacity as second fiddle to Martin O'Neill.

Second, the Manchester United that existed when he left in 2005 (and before) has changed several times over.

Third, the footballing landscape that prevailed the last time he was in the dugout has changed. Therefore the standards have changed.

Finally, he still seems to hold a massive candle for Brian Clough, and the mentality that prevailed at Forest over 30 years ago. Again, that style, while perhaps endearing to the fans, is not necessarily something that would work today.

[Armagh18]

Roy Keane or Joachim Löw to the end of the season

If Roy Keane as manager is the answer, your question is wrong.

If you'd Roy Keane of 25 years ago there as a captain now I'd say majority of the problems would be solved. As a manager, I'd love to see it as well

[AustinPowers]

You're all forgetting  one very important detail

Fergie wouldn't allow it

[tiempo]

I think there are a few issues (although I appreciate the effort in identifying 13 good points for Keane).

First, his last truly successful managerial stint was with Sunderland almost 20 years ago. Thereafter, it has been underwhelming, or in a capacity as second fiddle to Martin O'Neill.

Second, the Manchester United that existed when he left in 2005 (and before) has changed several times over.

Third, the footballing landscape that prevailed the last time he was in the dugout has changed. Therefore the standards have changed.

Finally, he still seems to hold a massive candle for Brian Clough, and the mentality that prevailed at Forest over 30 years ago. Again, that style, while perhaps endearing to the fans, is not necessarily something that would work today.

Appreciate the thoughtful reply

Where I think Keane has a strong case is Madrid and Barcelona appointed Zidane and Pep to great effect, peers of Keane whose gravitas carries farther than most others

Also Madrid have re-appointed Jose, no doubt with a factory reset in view so the onward manager has a base to work from, Keane is still a relevant shout on both points

Major kicker though as also highlighted, an octogenarian is king maker

Carrick finished by Halloween?

[Armagh18]

Experienced - Moyes, Van Gal, Mourinhio, Rangnick
Upcoming - Amorim, Carrick, Fletcher
Stop gap - Van Nistlerooy, Giggs


I just can't see where united go next, or what 'type' of manager they go for? They have tried everything from the most experienced, the up and coming, guys with 'United DNA' and everything in between. Not forgetting Ten Hag.

I think we all know for a fact Carrick isn't the man that an elite club need, but is there any point in sacking him either?

He wasn't backed properly in the summer, people crying out for Yoro and Heaven to get a chance over Maguire/Martinez learned last night why they haven't played together, needed a leader there especially with changing goalkeeper as well.

Zero pace, fitness or physicality from most of the team, S&C coaches need looking at. Bruno is a fantastic player but not a leader when the chips are down, Roy Keane there or any leader worth a damn and there would have been punches thrown in the dressing room after that shite. Heaven and Sesko were absolutely disgraceful.

 I like Carrick but just don't see the players fearing him like they would a top manager, Fergie would have had Zirkzee, Rashford, Dalot, Shaw etc gone years ago, not given the chance to stink the place up again and again.

They had players like Keane Hughes  Ince Bruce Cantona Schmeichel, Butt, Rooney  etc who  would get stuck in , stand up  and not get pushed around. Most teams were beaten before the match  because of that physicality, fear, intimidation. United have no players  with physicality . Are  there even  any out there? 

They have no players with game intelligence  either.  Rashford 10 years later, still runs with the head down  and still has no end  product.

It's a desperately poor squad.  None of them  are worth  watching , bar Bruno.  No doubt Carrick will get the road in the coming months if  results don't improve.  The board will  have to be seen to be  "doing something" , and Carrick will be the casualty just to keep the fans off  their backs.  Another man in, same cycle of  shite will continue.

Those players came in in phases over years.

The point remains that if Fergie got the job now he would be gone by Christmas. These things take time. Give a manager three years.

But modern soccer fans want instant gratification. Win now or out.

Things do take time. But  it's taking a long  time too to  get rid of the likes of Dalot, Shaw, Maguire  etc. 

And I don't know how you can  build anything with the  quality of players brought in in recent times though.  Sancho, Garnacho, Antony the Jack Russell, absolute wasters.  Onana, De Ligt , Fred- no explanation needed.

As for Zirkzee, Christ almighty. Every time I see him , I think it  might as well be  a high as a kite  Afroman  in there. The worst I've ever seen

Unfair to lump De Ligt in there, he's a good player but got a serious injury.

The rest are woeful. Dalot, Maguire, Shaw all decent squad players but all a level below what you need to compete.

[Maroon Manc]

Going out last night is a blessing, squad is nowhere near strong enough. Dalot who had his best season by a mile last year has has been so bad, the 2 centre half's both need a loan but United didn't have the luxury of doing that. Its a very tough position for lads that age too play, I've no idea if their going to be United players in the future but the right thing is to get more experience elsewhere.

Santos had a shocker, hoping he can improve but I don't get why out of the 3 midfielders we've bought only one has real legs which seems ridiculous considering we had Mainoo already. Delighted with Tielemans, he'll be a great buy. Mount again very poor for a man with his experience.

Zirkee up there with one of the worst players I've ever seen at OT, last nights cameo was diabolic but I've come used to expecting nothing else. Rashford poor enough, his all round play is so limited he needs to be scoring goals and he hasn't so far.

Lets see how the next 5/6 league games go before losing the plot completely, it was always going to be a lot tougher with all the extra games. With this squad finishing top 5 is the aim this season.

[Baile Brigín 2]

13, one for each year so far

1 He understands exactly what Manchester United standards used to look like day-to-day
2 He would bring authority into a dressing room that looks short of it
3 Poor effort, preparation and accountability would be challenged immediately
4 He captained United through one of the most successful periods in the club's history
5 He understands the unique pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for United
6 He has genuine senior management experience, not just ex-player status
7 He took Sunderland from the Championship relegation zone to promotion in his first season
8 He has international coaching experience with the Republic of Ireland
9 He would judge players on standards and performance, not reputation or transfer fee
10 He could be particularly valuable in mentoring younger players entering the first team
11 He has enough stature that senior players could not easily dismiss him
12 He would provide a hard edge in an environment that has gone soft
13 United keep talking about restoring standards, culture and accountability; Keane was the man Ferguson trusted to enforce all three

14. Hasn't had a management job in 15 years.

[tiempo]

Has managed to stay alive for 55 and a half years baby!

[Blowitupref]

Going out last night is a blessing, squad is nowhere near strong enough. Dalot who had his best season by a mile last year has has been so bad, the 2 centre half's both need a loan but United didn't have the luxury of doing that. Its a very tough position for lads that age too play, I've no idea if their going to be United players in the future but the right thing is to get more experience elsewhere.

Santos had a shocker, hoping he can improve but I don't get why out of the 3 midfielders we've bought only one has real legs which seems ridiculous considering we had Mainoo already. Delighted with Tielemans, he'll be a great buy. Mount again very poor for a man with his experience.

Zirkee up there with one of the worst players I've ever seen at OT, last nights cameo was diabolic but I've come used to expecting nothing else. Rashford poor enough, his all round play is so limited he needs to be scoring goals and he hasn't so far.

Lets see how the next 5/6 league games go before losing the plot completely, it was always going to be a lot tougher with all the extra games. With this squad finishing top 5 is the aim this season.

Looking at Mount and Santos enough evidence to know to stop buying players off Chelsea?

Cahair O'Kane tweet on Zirkzee last night

"He's like that lad who got on an U15 development squad and has been walking around in the county shorts for 10 years since, completely unaware of how little effort he makes"

Best hope for Carrick and United to recover from this poor start to the season is for Amad,De Ligt,Baleba to hit the ground running when they return from injury.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I think there are a few issues (although I appreciate the effort in identifying 13 good points for Keane).

First, his last truly successful managerial stint was with Sunderland almost 20 years ago. Thereafter, it has been underwhelming, or in a capacity as second fiddle to Martin O'Neill.

Second, the Manchester United that existed when he left in 2005 (and before) has changed several times over.

Third, the footballing landscape that prevailed the last time he was in the dugout has changed. Therefore the standards have changed.

Finally, he still seems to hold a massive candle for Brian Clough, and the mentality that prevailed at Forest over 30 years ago. Again, that style, while perhaps endearing to the fans, is not necessarily something that would work today.

Appreciate the thoughtful reply

Where I think Keane has a strong case is Madrid and Barcelona appointed Zidane and Pep to great effect, peers of Keane whose gravitas carries farther than most others

Also Madrid have re-appointed Jose, no doubt with a factory reset in view so the onward manager has a base to work from, Keane is still a relevant shout on both points

Major kicker though as also highlighted, an octogenarian is king maker

Carrick finished by Halloween?

While I would consider Keane a better player than Pep, and one of the few players who approached even Zidane, he is a long way behind both of them in terms of what has been achieved in management. Keane's trophy haul is a single Championship title, while Pep and Zidane both won multiple Champions Leagues within their early years of management. It is more than just their "legendary" and psychological status that made Pep and Zidane what they are as managers.

[Armagh18]

Going out last night is a blessing, squad is nowhere near strong enough. Dalot who had his best season by a mile last year has has been so bad, the 2 centre half's both need a loan but United didn't have the luxury of doing that. Its a very tough position for lads that age too play, I've no idea if their going to be United players in the future but the right thing is to get more experience elsewhere.

Santos had a shocker, hoping he can improve but I don't get why out of the 3 midfielders we've bought only one has real legs which seems ridiculous considering we had Mainoo already. Delighted with Tielemans, he'll be a great buy. Mount again very poor for a man with his experience.

Zirkee up there with one of the worst players I've ever seen at OT, last nights cameo was diabolic but I've come used to expecting nothing else. Rashford poor enough, his all round play is so limited he needs to be scoring goals and he hasn't so far.

Lets see how the next 5/6 league games go before losing the plot completely, it was always going to be a lot tougher with all the extra games. With this squad finishing top 5 is the aim this season.

Looking at Mount and Santos enough evidence to know to stop buying players off Chelsea?

Cahair O'Kane tweet on Zirkzee last night

"He's like that lad who got on an U15 development squad and has been walking around in the county shorts for 10 years since, completely unaware of how little effort he makes"

Best hope for Carrick and United to recover from this poor start to the season is for Amad,De Ligt,Baleba to hit the ground running when they return from injury.

Yeah they're all improvements if they're at their best.

Be interesting to see how he gets Mainoo, Tielemans, Baleba and Bruno in the same team. Drop Cunha and let Bruno play that false 9 role?

[Milltown Row2]

13, one for each year so far

1 He understands exactly what Manchester United standards used to look like day-to-day
2 He would bring authority into a dressing room that looks short of it
3 Poor effort, preparation and accountability would be challenged immediately
4 He captained United through one of the most successful periods in the club's history
5 He understands the unique pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for United
6 He has genuine senior management experience, not just ex-player status
7 He took Sunderland from the Championship relegation zone to promotion in his first season
8 He has international coaching experience with the Republic of Ireland
9 He would judge players on standards and performance, not reputation or transfer fee
10 He could be particularly valuable in mentoring younger players entering the first team
11 He has enough stature that senior players could not easily dismiss him
12 He would provide a hard edge in an environment that has gone soft
13 United keep talking about restoring standards, culture and accountability; Keane was the man Ferguson trusted to enforce all three

So that's a no then?

As I thought/knew, pure trolling 

I'd rather have Henderson for the craic in the dressing room and his ability to break an arm when celebrating