A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[Caesar]

Currently it's impossible to form an opinion on a UI beyond sentiment or principle, because there is no proposal on the table. You can't have a position on something that has never been properly defined.

The responsibility for driving that discussion has always rested with the South. A conversation needs to move beyond the constitutional principle itself and begin exploring what a best-case scenario could actually look like in practice.

The discussion needs to focus on the idea of a new 32-county Ireland, not simply the six counties being absorbed into the existing 26-county state. Then consider what the best possible arrangements might look like for the entire island, with new and improved systems for areas such as healthcare and education, rather than automatically adopt the Republic's existing structures.

Only then will voters have something tangible and hopefully credible to consider, rather than asking them to make a decision based largely on identity or sentiment. Until then its pie in the sky.

[Rossfan]

The 6 being incorporated into the 26 is not a runner.
When are those who shout loudest going to lay out their outline of a new All Ireland Independent State?Moving from "Border poll now" to "Dublin have to do it" isn't going to help the objective.

We need grown up thinking from the proponents of an AI new State.
What will be the status of the 6 Cos?
What arrangements will there be for the "Ulster Brits"?

[Milltown Row2]

So, devils advocate

Ireland can be just called Ireland, not Republic of Ireland, as that, to the unionist, might appease the name

Devolved government in the regions of the provinces, so running the place mainly is still within its own areas

An inclusive National Anthem, (I know, but hear me out)

Obviously one national team for all sports

Inclusion for the Northern prods to be still part of the British Commonwealth, having that dual nationality

50 years of NHS continued funding for those that feel they want that, others may decide to follow a Southern Ireland format

All public state pensions to be honored until they die, if Northerners want to keep their 'own' state pension they can

Benefits to match the best available. Be that the UK one or the Irish one

The 12th is still a National Holiday, parades to still be allowed and obviously parades commission still reviewing them 

Policing, again, if we can still have devolution for the provinces then policing should reflect that

Keeping as many of the constitutions in place for a 2 generation period at least to allow the integration of the north to finally mix

This isn't pandering to unionists or loyalist or even the middle of the road prods, its not going to get done without sitting around the table and talking about it, ironing out the grievances, finding solutions and giving assurances, in writing..

Prods can still be prods in the 6 counties and will do regardless of a 50+1% majority if a poll was rushed in without the consent, but if someone can et them to agree, begrudgingly, that they are better off, health wise, education wise, traditionally wise, nationality (dual citizenship) wise, benefits wise, then, maybe you might get people talking..

What's more important is who's doing the talking, the movement that looks after that will decide who is ready to listen on their side.

These are not my debates, just a few things that need resolving     

I'm sure I've missed loads out of the conversations of what could get people around the table, there will be complete diehards who'll never, never be interested, but they are old

[dec]

• The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.
• The English language is recognised as a second official language.
• Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

Switch the order of the two official languages to recognise the practical reality?

[Rossfan]

A few responses to your excellent post Milltown--

So, devils advocate

Ireland can be just called Ireland, not Republic of Ireland, as that, to the unionist, might appease the name
*26 Cos calls itself Ireland.

Devolved government in the regions of the provinces, so running the place mainly is still within its own areas
*Yes but 2 Home Rule areas to start based on 6 and 26 under a "Confederation of Ireland"

An inclusive National Anthem, (I know, but hear me out)
* There will be a new flag and anthem.

Obviously one national team for all sports
*not necessarily. The "UK" has 4 International soccer teams.

Inclusion for the Northern prods to be still part of the British Commonwealth, having that dual nationality
*Yes. If Scotland is gone Independent......What would their 2nd Nationality be?

50 years of NHS continued funding for those that feel they want that, others may decide to follow a Southern Ireland format
* Who'll pay for a 6 Cos NHS?

All public state pensions to be honored until they die, if Northerners want to keep their 'own' state pension they can

Benefits to match the best available. Be that the UK one or the Irish one

The 12th is still a National Holiday, parades to still be allowed and obviously parades commission still reviewing them

* Yes. If they'd all parade like Rossnowlagh there's be no need for a Commission.

Policing, again, if we can still have devolution for the provinces then policing should reflect that
* 2 uniformed civil police services with a 32 County FBI  type for serious crime,.

Keeping as many of the constitutions in place for a 2 generation period at least to allow the integration of the north to finally mix

* Id imagine there'd be a new Constitution

[AustinPowers]

Ok, let's start with  the flag and anthem

What will they be?

(If you say  Ireland's Call, you get a  kick in the stones)

[Rossfan]

Flag - probably green with that red X (St Patrick's Cross apparently) from the Union Jack.

Anthem - a new one. "Our lovely Island"?
Definitely not the rugger rubbish.

Could we have a bottom up approach to Government instead of the inherited English top down model?

GAA and Credit Union movements are 2 of the most successful things in Ireland. They start local and feed into a National system.

Our pro UI advocates should be looking at the Swiss system (or Belgian?)

[Finnser]

Go back to the green flag with the gold harp

[Milltown Row2]

How much are you prepared to bend or willing to give up to create a new Ireland tomorrow?

[AustinPowers]

How much are you prepared to bend or willing to give up to create a new Ireland tomorrow?

I suppose if the planning was done , and things prepared for , then you would expect the new state to  function (albeit  with a bedding in period)  as  you'd expect most countries to  function

It took time to  adapt to the Euro , as I'm sure it did with things like  when the NHS started , pensions, benefits  system , or when more services moved online etc. Yes, there's  a lot more to deal with in a UI , but  things should run smoothly in time

Flags and anthems  , unionists won't recognise them anyway , just as  northern nationalists don't recognise GSTK and the union flag, so  that's hardly  the greatest obstacle. It's more symbolic than anything. 

So how much would  we be giving  up or compromising on  in reality? The main thing  would  potentially  be  peace.

[armaghniac]

Ireland can be just called Ireland, not Republic of Ireland, as that, to the unionist, might appease the name

It already is, no change there.

Devolved government in the regions of the provinces, so running the place mainly is still within its own areas

what are these going to do?

An inclusive National Anthem, (I know, but hear me out)

A nation once again?

Inclusion for the Northern prods to be still part of the British Commonwealth, having that dual nationality

We could all join the Commonwealth as Ireland has independent links to Australia, Canada etc.

50 years of NHS continued funding for those that feel they want that, others may decide to follow a Southern Ireland format

Do you mean free care or the lower level of expenditure?

All public state pensions to be honored until they die, if Northerners want to keep their 'own' state pension they can

Pensions are complex, but people in the NI may mostly want the higher Irish rates.

Benefits to match the best available. Be that the UK one or the Irish one

Sinn Féin would vote for that. Will we also have the highest taxes of either of the present systems to pay for it?

The 12th is still a National Holiday, parades to still be allowed and obviously parades commission still reviewing them

The battle of the Boyne is not a proper thing to commemorate in a holiday. But you could put the second Monday in July as a holiday and let people spend it as they wish. 

[Milltown Row2]

Ireland can be just called Ireland, not Republic of Ireland, as that, to the unionist, might appease the name

It already is, no change there.

Devolved government in the regions of the provinces, so running the place mainly is still within its own areas

what are these going to do?

An inclusive National Anthem, (I know, but hear me out)

A nation once again?

Inclusion for the Northern prods to be still part of the British Commonwealth, having that dual nationality

We could all join the Commonwealth as Ireland has independent links to Australia, Canada etc.

50 years of NHS continued funding for those that feel they want that, others may decide to follow a Southern Ireland format

Do you mean free care or the lower level of expenditure?

All public state pensions to be honored until they die, if Northerners want to keep their 'own' state pension they can

Pensions are complex, but people in the NI may mostly want the higher Irish rates.

Benefits to match the best available. Be that the UK one or the Irish one

Sinn Féin would vote for that. Will we also have the highest taxes of either of the present systems to pay for it?

The 12th is still a National Holiday, parades to still be allowed and obviously parades commission still reviewing them

The battle of the Boyne is not a proper thing to commemorate in a holiday. But you could put the second Monday in July as a holiday and let people spend it as they wish. 

I'm not speaking for me, I said that in the post. It's about posing questions or conditions that they may want answered, I'm personally not really concerned about though, as I'm not a loyalist or a unionist

But are you willing to bend to their requests/demands if a UI was granted? What are you willing to compromise for a UI?

For at the minute, it's not happening in your lifetime

[Wildweasel74]

Prepared to Bend,? u do nothing but complain about Irelands call, it be,we want integration on our rules. Which be, change very little, and that why we not win middle voters in the north. U dont know the unionist middle vote when bcked in a corner, they go with the UK.

[weareros]

Flag - probably green with that red X (St Patrick's Cross apparently) from the Union Jack.

Ah Jaysus, bad enough having Ballaghaderreen festooned in green and red besides making the national flag green and red too.

[Rossfan]

Not many posters on this subject.
Obviously not much real interest in a reunited Ireland.