The DUP thread

[David McKeown]

I don't think she'll get off with it if they are found guilty, I just think she doesn't have to show her face in court and her counsel will speak for her? I'm sure David will confirm

She can not be found guilty. She will instead face a fact finding hearing. Either alongside Jeffrey's trial or at a later date.

A fact finding hearing doesn't assess guilt or innocence but does assess whether someone did the act.

If there is an adverse finding then the range of options open to the court is different. They range from an absolute discharge to a hospital order.

[Milltown Row2]

I don't think she'll get off with it if they are found guilty, I just think she doesn't have to show her face in court and her counsel will speak for her? I'm sure David will confirm

She can not be found guilty. She will instead face a fact finding hearing. Either alongside Jeffrey's trial or at a later date.

A fact finding hearing doesn't assess guilt or innocence but does assess whether someone did the act.

If there is an adverse finding then the range of options open to the court is different. They range from an absolute discharge to a hospital order.

How many people try/go down this route  ?

[David McKeown]

I don't think she'll get off with it if they are found guilty, I just think she doesn't have to show her face in court and her counsel will speak for her? I'm sure David will confirm

She can not be found guilty. She will instead face a fact finding hearing. Either alongside Jeffrey's trial or at a later date.

A fact finding hearing doesn't assess guilt or innocence but does assess whether someone did the act.

If there is an adverse finding then the range of options open to the court is different. They range from an absolute discharge to a hospital order.

How many people try/go down this route  ?

It's not common but it's not unusual. It's usually not their choice either. If I have a concern about a client and their ability to provide me with instructions I'll direct they see experts. The court will do the same. It's not the case that I client will come and say I'm not fit for this. They occasionally do but they invariably always are fit.

It's also not an easy way out. Finding of facts against and potential hospital orders are not easy things to live with.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I don't think she'll get off with it if they are found guilty, I just think she doesn't have to show her face in court and her counsel will speak for her? I'm sure David will confirm

She can not be found guilty. She will instead face a fact finding hearing. Either alongside Jeffrey's trial or at a later date.

A fact finding hearing doesn't assess guilt or innocence but does assess whether someone did the act.

If there is an adverse finding then the range of options open to the court is different. They range from an absolute discharge to a hospital order.

How many people try/go down this route  ?

It's not common but it's not unusual. It's usually not their choice either. If I have a concern about a client and their ability to provide me with instructions I'll direct they see experts. The court will do the same. It's not the case that I client will come and say I'm not fit for this. They occasionally do but they invariably always are fit.

It's also not an easy way out. Finding of facts against and potential hospital orders are not easy things to live with.

Easier than dying in prison?

[David McKeown]

I don't think she'll get off with it if they are found guilty, I just think she doesn't have to show her face in court and her counsel will speak for her? I'm sure David will confirm

She can not be found guilty. She will instead face a fact finding hearing. Either alongside Jeffrey's trial or at a later date.

A fact finding hearing doesn't assess guilt or innocence but does assess whether someone did the act.

If there is an adverse finding then the range of options open to the court is different. They range from an absolute discharge to a hospital order.

How many people try/go down this route  ?

It's not common but it's not unusual. It's usually not their choice either. If I have a concern about a client and their ability to provide me with instructions I'll direct they see experts. The court will do the same. It's not the case that I client will come and say I'm not fit for this. They occasionally do but they invariably always are fit.

It's also not an easy way out. Finding of facts against and potential hospital orders are not easy things to live with.

Easier than dying in prison?

Possibly. I don't fancy either option to be fair

[Tony Baloney]

Two pencils up the nose and a pair of underpants on the head will be my defence. Wibble.

[Windmill abu]

Two pencils up the nose and a pair of underpants on the head will be my defence. Wibble.

That may be part of the evidence against Jeffery.

[Wildweasel74]

How come she was all fine before this came about, same with Peter Robinson wife, i just cant see Joe Bloggs not been took to trial for this. Hell if u a borderline psycopath u still be seeing a trial.

[DaleCooper]

Yup. There is no "getting off" if the facts clearly implicate you. You may get a nicer cell.

[David McKeown]

How come she was all fine before this came about, same with Peter Robinson wife, i just cant see Joe Bloggs not been took to trial for this. Hell if u a borderline psycopath u still be seeing a trial.

How do we know she was fine?  The process she has gone through is the exact same process any defendant would have gone through if there were concerns over their fitness to give instructions.

[SaffronSports]

How come she was all fine before this came about, same with Peter Robinson wife, i just cant see Joe Bloggs not been took to trial for this. Hell if u a borderline psycopath u still be seeing a trial.

How do we know she was fine?  The process she has gone through is the exact same process any defendant would have gone through if there were concerns over their fitness to give instructions.

Would there be many examples of working class people going down this path? That's ultimately what people will see this as. Someone of status getting what they would deem as preferential treatment.

[NAG1]

Appropriate page number for Jeffrey's little fwyiend 

[johnnycool]

Appropriate page number for Jeffrey's little fwyiend 

Did he not fall out wiff Jweffery about the Irish sea border and the DUP going back into Stormont.

[David McKeown]

How come she was all fine before this came about, same with Peter Robinson wife, i just cant see Joe Bloggs not been took to trial for this. Hell if u a borderline psycopath u still be seeing a trial.

How do we know she was fine?  The process she has gone through is the exact same process any defendant would have gone through if there were concerns over their fitness to give instructions.

Would there be many examples of working class people going down this path? That's ultimately what people will see this as. Someone of status getting what they would deem as preferential treatment.

Absolutely there's plenty at an estimate of say between 5 and 10% of cases. They just don't tend to attract press coverage.

I have 6 such cases at the moment

All with the same process as Lady Donaldson went through with many of the same experts and similar concerns.

I understand the optics are bad. I think that's a combination of a number of factors. Poor reporting, social media, human nature, a lack of education on actual procedures etc to name just a few of those.

[marty34]

How come she was all fine before this came about, same with Peter Robinson wife, i just cant see Joe Bloggs not been took to trial for this. Hell if u a borderline psycopath u still be seeing a trial.

How do we know she was fine?  The process she has gone through is the exact same process any defendant would have gone through if there were concerns over their fitness to give instructions.

Would there be many examples of working class people going down this path? That's ultimately what people will see this as. Someone of status getting what they would deem as preferential treatment.

Absolutely there's plenty at an estimate of say between 5 and 10% of cases. They just don't tend to attract press coverage.

I have 6 such cases at the moment

All with the same process as Lady Donaldson went through with many of the same experts and similar concerns.

I understand the optics are bad. I think that's a combination of a number of factors. Poor reporting, social media, human nature, a lack of education on actual procedures etc to name just a few of those.

David, you're going to be tortured with questions and queries during this trial. 

Maybe take a holiday for a week or two...without your phone.