Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[EoinW]

Based on what we've seen here, it is divided. It's only common sense that such huge changes to the game will divide fans.

Down, in their final two games, scored 29 & 30 points and lost both!  Never in championship history has a team scored that many points and lost.  This hasn't been about getting some more offence back into the games.  This is a different game.

Was the game that broken in 2024 that is required such radical change?  Some might say yes, however those fans were about to give up on the game and had nothing to lose.  Even the fans who still enjoyed football were open to the usual one or two rule changes to get a bit more pace and scoring into the games.  The objection is to this complete overhaul of the game.  Has such a thing ever happened before in Gaelic football?

Don't take me the wrong way on Kerry.  A great team, a county that ALWAYS has great teams.  When competing for All Irelands, the #1 objective for the other counties is to be able to compete and beat Kerry.  That's the standard.  Thus we've had counties over the past 20 years, build defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry.  All that work was made obsolete in one off season by a bunch of bureaucrats.  Is that fair?

Regarding modern journalism, their reaction to the new rules is no surprise.  We see this type of Group Think in all fields.  Today journalists are good at one thing: self censorship.  They perceive what Authority wants then toe the Party Line.  Being critical will only put their jobs at risk.  Anyone looking for truth seeking or honesty from the mainstream media is a century too late.

The other social change I've noticed is the behavior of Authority.  It no longer admits to making mistakes for fear of losing credibility.  Instead it is more likely to double down on the original mistake.  Thus I'm not optimistic about the GAA.  I expect all major rule changes to remain and the only change will be adding the 4 point goal.

[Milltown Row2]

So if you are into teams that built defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry  the the new rules is a ass and needs to go back to something like before?

As a watcher/supporter the game is a lot better, as a ref its a pain in the hole, but as a ref that participates in the game I much prefer the game now as there is a lot more to it than the usual 15 men behind the ball replaying it back through defense and waiting for the last 10 minutes to make a push for a win

[johnnycool]

"Under previous rules Donegal were probably looking at going into the final 10 minutes maybe 2 or 3 points down even when being outplayed for large parts of the game"

You cant make that assumption though, as Kerrys game plan would have changed and maybe they may have went more direct for goals.

With the old rules we can be sure Donegal would have had all 14 outfield players behind the ball at every opportunity so goal chances for Kerry would have even fewer and farer between than they were with the new rules.

In the final the new rules had the intended consequences of making scoring easier, Kerry adapted and have the players to take advantage of the new rules, Donegal didn't adapt and never offered enough attacking wise to win the game.

Jim Gavin and co can feel vindicated and coaches need to spend more time coaching kicking for scores, kick passing in an offensive situation and working on attacking patterns rather than zonal defending as it isn't as effective anymore.

Limerick hurlers target 30+ scores per game with an 80% or better conversion rate, in football you'd need to be targeting 20+ scores to win a game now with a few 2 pointers in there.

[trileacman]

Anyone have list of the top 2 point scorers in this years championship?

"Under previous rules Donegal were probably looking at going into the final 10 minutes maybe 2 or 3 points down even when being outplayed for large parts of the game"

You cant make that assumption though, as Kerrys game plan would have changed and maybe they may have went more direct for goals.

With the old rules we can be sure Donegal would have had all 14 outfield players behind the ball at every opportunity so goal chances for Kerry would have even fewer and farer between than they were with the new rules.

In the final the new rules had the intended consequences of making scoring easier, Kerry adapted and have the players to take advantage of the new rules, Donegal didn't adapt and never offered enough attacking wise to win the game.

Jim Gavin and co can feel vindicated and coaches need to spend more time coaching kicking for scores, kick passing in an offensive situation and working on attacking patterns rather than zonal defending as it isn't as effective anymore.

Limerick hurlers target 30+ scores per game with an 80% or better conversion rate, in football you'd need to be targeting 20+ scores to win a game now with a few 2 pointers in there.

"Working on attacking patterns" is just fancy talk for "slow the game down and run a load of set plays". I can't think of anyone who wants to see that.

[AustinPowers]

Based on what we've seen here, it is divided. It's only common sense that such huge changes to the game will divide fans.

Down, in their final two games, scored 29 & 30 points and lost both!  Never in championship history has a team scored that many points and lost.  This hasn't been about getting some more offence back into the games.  This is a different game.

Was the game that broken in 2024 that is required such radical change?  Some might say yes, however those fans were about to give up on the game and had nothing to lose.  Even the fans who still enjoyed football were open to the usual one or two rule changes to get a bit more pace and scoring into the games.  The objection is to this complete overhaul of the game.  Has such a thing ever happened before in Gaelic football?

Don't take me the wrong way on Kerry.  A great team, a county that ALWAYS has great teams.  When competing for All Irelands, the #1 objective for the other counties is to be able to compete and beat Kerry.  That's the standard.  Thus we've had counties over the past 20 years, build defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry.  All that work was made obsolete in one off season by a bunch of bureaucrats.  Is that fair?

Regarding modern journalism, their reaction to the new rules is no surprise.  We see this type of Group Think in all fields.  Today journalists are good at one thing: self censorship.  They perceive what Authority wants then toe the Party Line.  Being critical will only put their jobs at risk.  Anyone looking for truth seeking or honesty from the mainstream media is a century too late.

The other social change I've noticed is the behavior of Authority.  It no longer admits to making mistakes for fear of losing credibility.  Instead it is more likely to double down on the original mistake.  Thus I'm not optimistic about the GAA.  I expect all major rule changes to remain and the only change will be adding the 4 point goal.

Yes, I expect all rules to be ratified. There's just no way  they'll be seen to back down. They can't be seen to  have sent  Jim Gavin  down the road,   with his tail between his legs, having  only introduced one or two of his rules. Nope, I expect all of them to pass.  

The big  change is the arc and 2 pointer. They'll counteract the lack of goals by bringing in a 4 point goal.  And if that brings even more heavy defeats, they'll t**ker  with that too, by  narrowing the goals or have all forwards wear an eye patch  or insist they have to wear   flip flops. 

Its just  like Father Ted hammering  at the motor. 

[DaleCooper]

I heard Pat Spillane say Jim Gavin thought of his role as "making the best amateur game to play and watch on the planet".


Given the source I wondered if this is true. Seems like an odd brief. What is with Irish people and their desperate need to gush about gaelic games?

"Best in the world".

Silly comparing sports this way, everyone is different. That's an incredible stat on Down.

There were also more handpasses in this year's final than last year!

[Blowitupref]

Sandbox games at the weekend apparently had 4 point goals, restricted hand pass rule.  Once you crossed the half way line you couldn't go back and some adjustment to the kick outs and the hooter.

All sounds top heavy on the offensive side of things instead of looking to strike a balance between defence and attack.

[Armagh18]

I heard Pat Spillane say Jim Gavin thought of his role as "making the best amateur game to play and watch on the planet".


Given the source I wondered if this is true. Seems like an odd brief. What is with Irish people and their desperate need to gush about gaelic games?

"Best in the world".

Silly comparing sports this way, everyone is different. That's an incredible stat on Down.

There were also more handpasses in this year's final than last year!

Yeah I think I heard Gavin on a podcast at the start of the year and said that was his aim.

[EoinW]

So if you are into teams that built defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry  the the new rules is a ass and needs to go back to something like before?

As a watcher/supporter the game is a lot better, as a ref its a pain in the hole, but as a ref that participates in the game I much prefer the game now as there is a lot more to it than the usual 15 men behind the ball replaying it back through defense and waiting for the last 10 minutes to make a push for a win

I certainly respect your opinion as a referee.  You know more about the game than I'll ever know.

That said, why must it be a Zero Sum game?  Traditionalist are not complaining about rule changes.  We're complaining about all the massive changes at once.  Plus I'm complaining about the deliberate destruction of defensive football.

Like I wrote: a zero sum game.  Which means winners and losers - a divided football community.

It was not necessary for the FRC to be so radical.  That is my chief complaint.

[Milltown Row2]

So if you are into teams that built defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry  the the new rules is a ass and needs to go back to something like before?

As a watcher/supporter the game is a lot better, as a ref its a pain in the hole, but as a ref that participates in the game I much prefer the game now as there is a lot more to it than the usual 15 men behind the ball replaying it back through defense and waiting for the last 10 minutes to make a push for a win

I certainly respect your opinion as a referee.  You know more about the game than I'll ever know.

That said, why must it be a Zero Sum game?  Traditionalist are not complaining about rule changes.  We're complaining about all the massive changes at once.  Plus I'm complaining about the deliberate destruction of defensive football.

Like I wrote: a zero sum game.  Which means winners and losers - a divided football community.

It was not necessary for the FRC to be so radical.  That is my chief complaint.

I get that, and at the time I voiced many concerns and still do regarding the implementation at club level of the rules, as there may be 7 changes but 30 odd things come into affect because of those calls!

My view on the game though is its in a better place. A typical game for me in terms of distance covered in football prior to the changes was about 3 miles, if I was lucky, the juvenile games you are travelling over 4 miles as they went up and down the pitch.

Now I'm back up at 4 miles or more as the game has evolved into a more attacking game. It's not about how attacking the game must be but more of getting away from the rubbish it was becoming, tense yes but bar your main games in intercounty or high end club the games resorted to being a defensive tactical, stop them from scoring contest.

It is now down to the defenders to defend, instead of them thinking they are forwards running the length of the field. 

Ref's will have to help with regards steps, as that will be one area that defenders can make a difference in their approach   

[Cunny Funt]

Anyone have list of the top 2 point scorers in this years championship?

From a stats guy on twitter

[blewuporstuffed]

Sandbox games at the weekend apparently had 4 point goals, restricted hand pass rule.  Once you crossed the half way line you couldn't go back and some adjustment to the kick outs and the hooter.

All sounds top heavy on the offensive side of things instead of looking to strike a balance between defence and attack.

I think this would be my major gripe with the new rules as a whole (even though i think they have been a net positive)

[Rossfan]

Unless the 4 steps are RIGIDLY enforced or a new more physical version of tackle is introduced (or both) then attackers have nearly  all the advantages.

[EoinW]

So if you are into teams that built defensive systems to be able to contend with Kerry  the the new rules is a ass and needs to go back to something like before?

As a watcher/supporter the game is a lot better, as a ref its a pain in the hole, but as a ref that participates in the game I much prefer the game now as there is a lot more to it than the usual 15 men behind the ball replaying it back through defense and waiting for the last 10 minutes to make a push for a win

I certainly respect your opinion as a referee.  You know more about the game than I'll ever know.

That said, why must it be a Zero Sum game?  Traditionalist are not complaining about rule changes.  We're complaining about all the massive changes at once.  Plus I'm complaining about the deliberate destruction of defensive football.

Like I wrote: a zero sum game.  Which means winners and losers - a divided football community.

It was not necessary for the FRC to be so radical.  That is my chief complaint.

I get that, and at the time I voiced many concerns and still do regarding the implementation at club level of the rules, as there may be 7 changes but 30 odd things come into affect because of those calls!

My view on the game though is its in a better place. A typical game for me in terms of distance covered in football prior to the changes was about 3 miles, if I was lucky, the juvenile games you are travelling over 4 miles as they went up and down the pitch.

Now I'm back up at 4 miles or more as the game has evolved into a more attacking game. It's not about how attacking the game must be but more of getting away from the rubbish it was becoming, tense yes but bar your main games in intercounty or high end club the games resorted to being a defensive tactical, stop them from scoring contest.

It is now down to the defenders to defend, instead of them thinking they are forwards running the length of the field. 

Ref's will have to help with regards steps, as that will be one area that defenders can make a difference in their approach   

I can accept that the game is in a better place, depending on what the GAA does next.  The game has the potential to be much better, however the offence-defence balance has been destroyed.  If they won't make an effort to fix this then we are looking at a hybrid of Gaelic football, not a recovery of the 20th century game.

Personally, if they do not get rid of the 2 pointer than I'll consider trust to be broken.  Other fans have different complaints.  Regardless of individual opinions, there does need to be some kind of compromise..

Yet what we're hearing is the FRC investigating 4 point goals.  Talk about insult to injury!  That would be a clear statement that they do not care about the traditional fans.

My fear is that the GAA is in love with the new game they've created and will not give any quarter to critics of their game.  That's the signals coming from their media propagandists.

If this is where they are going then it is high handed and totally unnecessary.  Leaves me wondering what kinds of egos are involved in decision making and what ulterior motives were always in play with the FRC.

[jb77]

Any truth in a hand pass must be followed by a kickpass being trialled? Sounds like it could be awfully clumsy