A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)

[trileacman]

Apart from the names mentioned, is that the full squad of who's holding it up?

Or are there others also in the AA5A and these ones are just the public face?

The road will be built. As others said, just need to tidy things up (from the judge's summary) and go again. It'll take time and unfortunately, more lives will be lost in the meantime but hopefully this will make sure everything is done right the next time.

Must have been a tough day for the families of lost loved ones when the announcement was made. Feel for them. 

There's no guarantee that the road will be approved the next time. The A5 was delayed this time because of climate change legislation only implemented after the planning for the road had started. Any new legislation from London or Stormont that comes in could shift the goalposts again. Not to mention the money lost from this delay, handing all the land back, undoing all the development that has been done and returning the fields to grass plus the costs of redoing all the planning. Plus the cost of land will have increased again as will the construction costs. After this and depending on NIs funding from London it's very likely there will not be the funding available to build the road.

This ignores the fact that there'll be another crew of slippery legal bastards to pour over the paperwork again looking for any loophole to postpone the road and line their pockets.

Have you looked at the reports that have been completed to get this far? There's literally thousands upon thousands of pages, nearly 10 years of work, of course there will be errors and oversights that can be exploited.

The equivalent of this is the All-Ireland final result being thrown out because the linesman got a line-ball decision wrong.

[marty34]

Apart from the names mentioned, is that the full squad of who's holding it up?

Or are there others also in the AA5A and these ones are just the public face?

The road will be built. As others said, just need to tidy things up (from the judge's summary) and go again. It'll take time and unfortunately, more lives will be lost in the meantime but hopefully this will make sure everything is done right the next time.

Must have been a tough day for the families of lost loved ones when the announcement was made. Feel for them. 

There's no guarantee that the road will be approved the next time. The A5 was delayed this time because of climate change legislation only implemented after the planning for the road had started. Any new legislation from London or Stormont that comes in could shift the goalposts again. Not to mention the money lost from this delay, handing all the land back, undoing all the development that has been done and returning the fields to grass plus the costs of redoing all the planning. Plus the cost of land will have increased again as will the construction costs. After this and depending on NIs funding from London it's very likely there will not be the funding available to build the road.

This ignores the fact that there'll be another crew of slippery legal bastards to pour over the paperwork again looking for any loophole to postpone the road and line their pockets.

Have you looked at the reports that have been completed to get this far? There's literally thousands upon thousands of pages, nearly 10 years of work, of course there will be errors and oversights that can be exploited.

The equivalent of this is the All-Ireland final result being thrown out because the linesman got a line-ball decision wrong.

So basically you're saying there'll be no big infrastructure projects built again...ever?

[Wildweasel74]

Here purchase order on the land no different than the Dungiven bypass. Somebody in Foreglen actually lost their house as it was in the line of fire plus Foreglen petrol station. 15/20mile of farmland So i can't see the benefit of blocking this, it will be eventually build. How many of these blockers are die hard unionists?

[marty34]

Here purchase order on the land no different than the Dungiven bypass. Somebody in Foreglen actually lost their house as it was in the line of fire plus Foreglen petrol station. 15/20mile of farmland So i can't see the benefit of blocking this, it will be eventually build. How many if these blockers are due hard unionists?

I don't think there was an 'alliance' against it? Maybe there was?

I remember objections against the most recent Toome by-pass, due to swans beside Lough Beg, but it passed.

[OakLeaf]

Plus the cost of land will have increased again as will the construction costs. After this and depending on NIs funding from London it's very likely there will not be the funding available to build the road.

I agree with many of your points, but the increased land and construction costs is a bit of a Red herring. Construction costs increase mainly because of inflation. As inflation rises, so do wages, government tax receipts etc. It may not all happen in lockstep but eventually equiliberium is reached. In other words the standard of living doesnt change that much over the course of a few years.

This road will be built because the business/human justifications are overwhelming. It's very sad that a few people (with less than stellar motives) are holding this up. I agree that the DFI should shoulder a lot of the blame here, but the objections dont seem anywhere near solid enough to justify the delays (and those objections will be overcome), so a significant part of the blame must also fall on the people making those objections.

[Tony Baloney]

Plus the cost of land will have increased again as will the construction costs. After this and depending on NIs funding from London it's very likely there will not be the funding available to build the road.

I agree with many of your points, but the increased land and construction costs is a bit of a Red herring. Construction costs increase mainly because of inflation. As inflation rises, so do wages, government tax receipts etc. It may not all happen in lockstep but eventually equiliberium is reached. In other words the standard of living doesnt change that much over the course of a few years.

This road will be built because the business/human justifications are overwhelming. It's very sad that a few people (with less than stellar motives) are holding this up. I agree that the DFI should shoulder a lot of the blame here, but the objections dont seem anywhere near solid enough to justify the delays (and those objections will be overcome), so a significant part of the blame must also fall on the people making those objections.

As others have stated their objections on paper are merely loopholes they have identified to support their real reasons. These lads don't give a shit about climate change or human rights associated with the duration of the project. They object because they'll potentially lose land and/or money and its part of a big road to Dublin - unfortunately for them the real reasons aren't enough to delay.

[nrico2006]

Here purchase order on the land no different than the Dungiven bypass. Somebody in Foreglen actually lost their house as it was in the line of fire plus Foreglen petrol station. 15/20mile of farmland So i can't see the benefit of blocking this, it will be eventually build. How many if these blockers are due hard unionists?

Are there many who are to lose their homes on the new A5?

[David McKeown]

Easier to blame and personally attack the named lawyers I guess than to address those ultimately responsible.   

There's no question that the department have monumentally fucked this up. However I'd also question the motives of this group taking the action. It's almost certain that this road will be built as planned, sooner or later. This group most likely knows that. The question i have is, what is their long term aim by delaying its construction? They're not the first group to have land vested to build a road. I think it's rather naive to think that there's no vindictive motive involved here.

I too would question their motives but the attacks on Judges for applying the law and lawyers for taking the case on are particularly unpalatable.

Further the suggestion these were minor breaches and should be ignored are simply not correct. The Judge would have ignored them if they could but the potential ramifications of doing so are significant.

To do so he would effectively have to say I don't care what law Parliament enacts I'm going to ignore it.

That is simply unworkable as much as I wish it were to get the road built.

[Wildweasel74]

Them swans are still there, few fields behind the elk and Newbridge, plus across the road in fields also.they just moved up a few fields when the road was built.

[trileacman]

3,000 acres vested for the road is to be returned to the farmers. Stormont now has to pay the cost of denying use of that land to the farmers from last November until the date they are returned to the farmers. Id say that cost alone will be in the range of 400-600£ acre. That's 12-18 million. Then there's the remediation cost of returning the fields to grass, replacing hedges, removing fill, removing fences and returning the old fences. That's probably another 50 million. Then there'll be the guts of 20 million in compensation to those affected by not building the road, contractors etc. They've spent 150 million up to now, I'd guess they'll not have much change out of 100 million once they return back to where they were at the start of all this.

£250 million to not build a road.

[DaleCooper]

Listened to the David McCann podcast with a former SDLP Spad and equivalent from "other side". Seemed to be Consensus it will go ahead eventually.


Of course next time at the ballot box people will vote in the people responsible for the mess. Plus de change.

Get out of NI if you can

[Wildweasel74]

I thought vested land is already bought?

[tiempo]

3,000 acres vested for the road is to be returned to the farmers. Stormont now has to pay the cost of denying use of that land to the farmers from last November until the date they are returned to the farmers. Id say that cost alone will be in the range of 400-600£ acre. That's 12-18 million. Then there's the remediation cost of returning the fields to grass, replacing hedges, removing fill, removing fences and returning the old fences. That's probably another 50 million. Then there'll be the guts of 20 million in compensation to those affected by not building the road, contractors etc. They've spent 150 million up to now, I'd guess they'll not have much change out of 100 million once they return back to where they were at the start of all this.

£250 million to not build a road.

The road will be paid for 2 or 3 times over before its built

Unionists will consider that a win until the day its open

Long term its another contribution from Unionists to constitutional change as their intransigence won't be lost on those in Westminster who will be glad to get shot of them in due course

[marty34]

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2025/0701/1521220-slane-bypass/

Bypass for Slane - main N2 road passed by Meath CC.

Was rejected in 2012 due to it being a heritage area. They went back to the drawing board and resubmitted it....over 10 years later.

A long drawn out process. 

[David McKeown]

I see Liz Kimmins has indicated that there will be an appeal.  Always possible that McAlinden J got the law wrong but given the content of the Judgement I am surprised by this course of action.  Particularly as they have started to return the land and remove all the equipment/