All Ireland Championship 2025.

[SouthOfThe Bann]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin or Derry isnt the toughest.

There's only a week between the last provincial final and the first round of games, so it would make logistics very tight.

There's been little to no evidence of teams managing the provincial final to get into a softer group - can't see it happening in Ulster, Leinster or Connacht. Even in Munster it would be fanciful to see Kerry do it (especially with the group they would be in as winners).

Maybe in years gone by it mightn't have benefitted but in Armagh/Donegal case there is clear benefit to losing the match.

How is there a clear benefit to being in group 4 by losing Ulster?

It's by far the toughest group?

And how do Kerry keep getting these soft draws

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin and Derry wouldnt be the toughest based on recent performances. Therefore their hardest game would be against Mayo/Galway.

In group 1 they will still face either Mayo/Galway and an improving Tyrone team who ran Armagh very close. 2 more difficult games in my opinion

Maybe so but you've a better chance of topping Group A than Group D

Plus there's a real possibility of getting knocked out of D whereas Cavan haven't a hope in A.

Dublin will be dangerous this year yet wouldn't write them off.

Unless there's a shock in Connacht then group A is the better group for me.

[toby47]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

That's arrant nonsense, how could it be better going into a group as provincial losers to take on Connacht provincial winners, Dublin and Derry than playing as Ulster winners against Connacht losers, Tyrone and Cavan .

Totally agree. Nonsensical.

[meatsy86]

Kerry going to be coming into the knockout stages seriously undercooked though with the soft draw. Definitely think that hindered them when it came to the Armagh game last year.

They have a trip to Pairc Ui Chaoimh to get through first. Bound to be a kick in Cork if they have anything about them.

[Gael80]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin or Derry isnt the toughest.

There's only a week between the last provincial final and the first round of games, so it would make logistics very tight.

There's been little to no evidence of teams managing the provincial final to get into a softer group - can't see it happening in Ulster, Leinster or Connacht. Even in Munster it would be fanciful to see Kerry do it (especially with the group they would be in as winners).

Maybe in years gone by it mightn't have benefitted but in Armagh/Donegal case there is clear benefit to losing the match.

How is there a clear benefit to being in group 4 by losing Ulster?

It's by far the toughest group?

And how do Kerry keep getting these soft draws

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin and Derry wouldnt be the toughest based on recent performances. Therefore their hardest game would be against Mayo/Galway.

In group 1 they will still face either Mayo/Galway and an improving Tyrone team who ran Armagh very close. 2 more difficult games in my opinion

There is nothing easy in either group and certainly no advantage to throw an Ulster title. Both counties will want to win their final and then look ahead to the All Ireland series.

I agree Tyrone are improving but the Ulster Champions would have them at home whereas the runners up have to play Dublin in Croke Park and most likely Galway at a neutral venue.

If there was a debate I'd say Group 4 would be the more challenging.

[Manning18]

Every time seems to be the hardest possible group for Armagh.

They've come in as provincial losers though, including backdoor in 2022. Try being the Connacht winners and comparing to other provincial winners

Armagh also got Monaghan in an AI QF in 23. Roscommon last year wasn't bad either

[5times5times]

Kerry's route to QF is
Cork - Div2 this year & next
Clare - Div3 this year & next
Louth or Meath - Div2 this year & next
Roscommon - Div2 this year & Div1 next year
Cork - Div2 arís

Compare that with the ulster finalists....

[mouview]

What is the sequence of fixtures? Seeds 1, provincial winners, at home first to seeds 3 I think? Then away to seeds 2 and neutral venue for seeds 4?

Edit; as below

Dates

Round 1 - 17/18 May, 24/25 May, home team first – Seed 1 v Seed 3, Seed 2 v Seed 4

Round 2 - 1/2 June, – Seed 4 v Seed 1, Seed 3 v Seed 2

Round 3 - 14/15 June, neutral venues – Seed 1 v Seed 2, Seed 3 v Seed 4

All-Ireland preliminary quarter-finals – 21/22 June.

All-Ireland quarter-finals – 28/29 June.

All-Ireland semi-finals – 12/13 July.

All-Ireland final - 27 July.

[twohands!!!]

Kerry going to be coming into the knockout stages seriously undercooked though with the soft draw. Definitely think that hindered them when it came to the Armagh game last year.

They have a trip to Pairc Ui Chaoimh to get through first. Bound to be a kick in Cork if they have anything about them.

Massive if there with Cork.

The last few years Cork have seemed to have developed a really bad habit of following up a good performance with an absolute stinker. Their inconsistency has been the only thing constant about their performances. Doubt any Cork supporter would be confident about what type of Cork will show up for that game against Kerry. You would think it would make more sense for Cork to be concentrating more on the games against Roscommon and loser of Meath/Louth. 

[marty34]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin or Derry isnt the toughest.

There's only a week between the last provincial final and the first round of games, so it would make logistics very tight.

There's been little to no evidence of teams managing the provincial final to get into a softer group - can't see it happening in Ulster, Leinster or Connacht. Even in Munster it would be fanciful to see Kerry do it (especially with the group they would be in as winners).

Maybe in years gone by it mightn't have benefitted but in Armagh/Donegal case there is clear benefit to losing the match.

How is there a clear benefit to being in group 4 by losing Ulster?

It's by far the toughest group?

And how do Kerry keep getting these soft draws

At the minute I would have said meeting Dublin and Derry wouldnt be the toughest based on recent performances. Therefore their hardest game would be against Mayo/Galway.

In group 1 they will still face either Mayo/Galway and an improving Tyrone team who ran Armagh very close. 2 more difficult games in my opinion

There is nothing easy in either group and certainly no advantage to throw an Ulster title. Both counties will want to win their final and then look ahead to the All Ireland series.

I agree Tyrone are improving but the Ulster Champions would have them at home whereas the runners up have to play Dublin in Croke Park and most likely Galway at a neutral venue.

If there was a debate I'd say Group 4 would be the more challenging.

Group 4, without a doubt.

[Cunny Funt]

One should look at the strength of the 4th seeded team when judging what group is best for a provincial finalist.

Ulster winner has Cavan
Ulster runner up has Derry

Connacht winner has Derry
Connacht runner up has Cavan

[Wildweasel74]

There be some argument where a neutral venue is for Dublin v Derry. Played them in Clones yrs ago. Dublin out of Croke Park are not that great.

[Armagh18]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

There's only a week between the last provincial final and the first round of games, so it would make logistics very tight.

There's been little to no evidence of teams managing the provincial final to get into a softer group - can't see it happening in Ulster, Leinster or Connacht. Even in Munster it would be fanciful to see Kerry do it (especially with the group they would be in as winners).

Maybe in years gone by it mightn't have benefitted but in Armagh/Donegal case there is clear benefit to losing the match.

You sure? Winner gets likely Mayo, Tyrone and Cavan, loser gets likely Galway, Dublin, Derry. Both tough groups.

[Armagh18]

Armagh/donegal would be better losing and going into group 4.

Would the draw not be better after provincial finals as now finalists can basically decide if they want to win or lose the game to get into an easier group?

That's arrant nonsense, how could it be better going into a group as provincial losers to take on Connacht provincial winners, Dublin and Derry than playing as Ulster winners against Connacht losers, Tyrone and Cavan .

Just my opinion but with the way Dublin and Derry are I would far rather have games against them than the other option.

I'd say Derry will have a sting in the tail yet. Dublin have men to come back and a point to prove. Neither easy games .

[AnDúnAbú94]

There be some argument where a neutral venue is for Dublin v Derry. Played them in Clones yrs ago. Dublin out of Croke Park are not that great.

Both Kilamacud Crokes vs Glen and Slaughtneil vs St Vincent's in all Ireland club semis were played in Newry so good chance its there

[blanketattack]

Kerry's route to QF is
Cork - Div2 this year & next
Clare - Div3 this year & next
Louth or Meath - Div2 this year & next
Roscommon - Div2 this year & Div1 next year
Cork - Div2 arís

Compare that with the ulster finalists....

Kerry's route to QF is
Cork - Div2 this year & next
Clare - Div3 this year & next
Louth or Meath - Div2 this year & next
Roscommon - Div2 this year & Div1 next year
Cork - Div2 arís

Compare that with the ulster finalists....

Very unfair that Kerry are only playing teams that did worse than them in the league.
Same with Liverpool in the Premier Lesgue, only ever played teams below them.