The Fine Gael thread

[Snapchap]

From The Ditch:

"Paschal Donohoe had a secret phone call with his Israeli counterpart to assure him the Irish government would "block" the Occupied Territories Bill.

Donohoe didn't record the call, which the Israeli side called "confidential", in his ministerial diary."

https://x.com/wereontheditch/status/1838915361044938752?t=Fy7QbES0XayMAhlehNRBHQ&s=19

[johnnycool]

From The Ditch:

"Paschal Donohoe had a secret phone call with his Israeli counterpart to assure him the Irish government would "block" the Occupied Territories Bill.

Donohoe didn't record the call, which the Israeli side called "confidential", in his ministerial diary."

https://x.com/wereontheditch/status/1838915361044938752?t=Fy7QbES0XayMAhlehNRBHQ&s=19

Bowing down to interference from an external state, surely that's a resigning matter?

[Snapchap]

From The Ditch:

"Paschal Donohoe had a secret phone call with his Israeli counterpart to assure him the Irish government would "block" the Occupied Territories Bill.

Donohoe didn't record the call, which the Israeli side called "confidential", in his ministerial diary."

https://x.com/wereontheditch/status/1838915361044938752?t=Fy7QbES0XayMAhlehNRBHQ&s=19

Bowing down to interference from an external state, surely that's a resigning matter?

That, or maybe it just warrants a fresh attack on the journlaists of The Ditch from the floor of the Dáil by the government, for having the absolute temerity to uncover yet more of their secrets.

[Rossfan]

Don't know what sort of accuracy these people have had previously....

https://irishelectionprojections.com/constituency-list/

[Snapchap]

The resignation of Heather Humphries means over 50% of sitting Fine Gael TDs are not contesting the election.

For a party in government, as far as I can see, that has never happened before, anywhere.

What does it say about whats going on in Fine Gael? And what does it say about the media in the south that they aren't asking that glaring question?

[Captain Scarlet]

Let's be honest if you want a seat you normally join FF or FG.
A lot of these politicians were anointed and I think liads see the game is up and don't want to go out on a loss.

The reason the journos in the south know this, but don't ask is that there's a nice cosy set up with trips and the chance of a press job by not rocking the boat.

[Snapchap]

Let's be honest if you want a seat you normally join FF or FG.
A lot of these politicians were anointed and I think liads see the game is up and don't want to go out on a loss.

The reason the journos in the south know this, but don't ask is that there's a nice cosy set up with trips and the chance of a press job by not rocking the boat.

There has to be more to it than fear of losing their seat. Lots of politicians in lots of countries can see when the game is up ahead of an election. That's a normal thing. But to react by losing half your parliamentary party to resignations is not normal bye-product. As I say, an albeit brief bit of research tells me that never before, anywhere, has a governing party had over half its MPs/TDs etc announce their retirement ahead of an election. Incumbancy is perhaps the biggest advantage a party can have. It's a lot easier to defend a seat than to gain it.

Imagine the media circus there would be if half of SF TDs decided they would not be contesting the next election. It would be a RTÉ/Indo/Irish Times/Newstalk feeding frenzy. We cal all imagine the line of questioning.

Maybe it just goes to show the sort of easy life that €725,000,000 can buy you.

[weareros]

Let's be honest if you want a seat you normally join FF or FG.
A lot of these politicians were anointed and I think liads see the game is up and don't want to go out on a loss.

The reason the journos in the south know this, but don't ask is that there's a nice cosy set up with trips and the chance of a press job by not rocking the boat.

There has to be more to it than fear of losing their seat. Lots of politicians in lots of countries can see when the game is up ahead of an election. That's a normal thing. But to react by losing half your parliamentary party to resignations is not normal bye-product. As I say, an albeit brief bit of research tells me that never before, anywhere, has a governing party had over half its MPs/TDs etc announce their retirement ahead of an election. Incumbancy is perhaps the biggest advantage a party can have. It's a lot easier to defend a seat than to gain it.

Imagine the media circus there would be if half of SF TDs decided they would not be contesting the next election. It would be a RTÉ/Indo/Irish Times/Newstalk feeding frenzy. We cal all imagine the line of questioning.

Maybe it just goes to show the sort of easy life that €725,000,000 can buy you.

It's a lot but in a PR system, if their vote reflects current opinion polling they will gain seats. FG are generally good at maximizing vote on the ground. Many of those stepping down like Ring, Bruton, Flanagan and Humphreys are well up in age and it's time to go. And in Flanagan's case, very high time. Others like Coveney who is only 52 is a surprise but he has also been in the Dail since 1998, lost the leadership election to Varadkar and when Varadkar stepped down, most of the party rallied behind Harris so he probably saw his leadership ambitions disappear with that. Some no doubt thought they were facing carnage from electorate but as the old saying goes: "a week is a long time in politics" and now even Mary Lou's seat is not safe. And if the latest SF grievance is to be believed, Paddy Kielty is a Blueshirt telling lame jokes about SF on the Late Late. Ah here!

[Snapchap]

Let's be honest if you want a seat you normally join FF or FG.
A lot of these politicians were anointed and I think liads see the game is up and don't want to go out on a loss.

The reason the journos in the south know this, but don't ask is that there's a nice cosy set up with trips and the chance of a press job by not rocking the boat.

There has to be more to it than fear of losing their seat. Lots of politicians in lots of countries can see when the game is up ahead of an election. That's a normal thing. But to react by losing half your parliamentary party to resignations is not normal bye-product. As I say, an albeit brief bit of research tells me that never before, anywhere, has a governing party had over half its MPs/TDs etc announce their retirement ahead of an election. Incumbancy is perhaps the biggest advantage a party can have. It's a lot easier to defend a seat than to gain it.

Imagine the media circus there would be if half of SF TDs decided they would not be contesting the next election. It would be a RTÉ/Indo/Irish Times/Newstalk feeding frenzy. We cal all imagine the line of questioning.

Maybe it just goes to show the sort of easy life that €725,000,000 can buy you.

It's a lot but in a PR system, if their vote reflects current opinion polling they will gain seats. FG are generally good at maximizing vote on the ground. Many of those stepping down like Ring, Bruton, Flanagan and Humphreys are well up in age and it's time to go. And in Flanagan's case, very high time. Others like Coveney who is only 52 is a surprise but he has also been in the Dail since 1998, lost the leadership election to Varadkar and when Varadkar stepped down, most of the party rallied behind Harris so he probably saw his leadership ambitions disappear with that. Some no doubt thought they were facing carnage from electorate but as the old saying goes: "a week is a long time in politics" and now even Mary Lou's seat is not safe. And if the latest SF grievance is to be believed, Paddy Kielty is a Blueshirt telling lame jokes about SF on the Late Late. Ah here!

You've verging on making my point for me. I also don't buy the suggestion that FG TDs are resigning because they are facing some sort of an electoral wipeout. As it stands, they are (sadly) the front runners in the polls. That, in conjunction with the fact that seat incumbancy is the best advantage their TDs could ask for, makes it all the more eyebrow raising that over half of them aren't seeking re-election.

Are their TDs getting too hard a time over their government having built the world's most expensive hospital? Or the world's most expensive bike shelter? Or is all not well in the party? Is there some sort of toxicity? Bullying?

Or are we to take our lead from RTÉ and refrain from asking such speculative questions when it comes to Fine Gael?

[weareros]

You've verging on making my point for me. I also don't buy the suggestion that FG TDs are resigning because they are facing some sort of an electoral wipeout. As it stands, they are (sadly) the front runners in the polls. That, in conjunction with the fact that seat incumbancy is the best advantage their TDs could ask for, makes it all the more eyebrow raising that over half of them aren't seeking re-election.

Are their TDs getting too hard a time over their government having built the world's most expensive hospital? Or the world's most expensive bike shelter? Or is all not well in the party? Is there some sort of toxicity? Bullying?

Or are we to take our lead from RTÉ and refrain from asking such speculative questions when it comes to Fine Gael?

I think a lot may have made the decision when they were facing a beating from the electorate. But things took a turn. While the Irish working class that looked set to flock to Sinn Fein are left on economic matters, they are similar to British working class in that they are right wing on immigration. So SF looking like it was going to storm to victory have now lost that vote to a motley crew of independents and lost some of younger vote by wavering on things like climate. Fine Gael are really accidentally finding themselves in a stronger position though Harris is clearly more popular with their traditional base than Varadkar. I doubt the hospital will lose votes. Most people know parents who have been in difficult situations with the lack of a top class children's hospital. It will be like Knock Airport back in the day. A lot of criticism but now considered a great investment.

[Snapchap]

You've verging on making my point for me. I also don't buy the suggestion that FG TDs are resigning because they are facing some sort of an electoral wipeout. As it stands, they are (sadly) the front runners in the polls. That, in conjunction with the fact that seat incumbancy is the best advantage their TDs could ask for, makes it all the more eyebrow raising that over half of them aren't seeking re-election.

Are their TDs getting too hard a time over their government having built the world's most expensive hospital? Or the world's most expensive bike shelter? Or is all not well in the party? Is there some sort of toxicity? Bullying?

Or are we to take our lead from RTÉ and refrain from asking such speculative questions when it comes to Fine Gael?

I think a lot may have made the decision when they were facing a beating from the electorate. But things took a turn. While the Irish working class that looked set to flock to Sinn Fein are left on economic matters, they are similar to British working class in that they are right wing on immigration. So SF looking like it was going to storm to victory have now lost that vote to a motley crew of independents and lost some of younger vote by wavering on things like climate. Fine Gael are really accidentally finding themselves in a stronger position though Harris is clearly more popular with their traditional base than Varadkar. I doubt the hospital will lose votes. Most people know parents who have been in difficult situations with the lack of a top class children's hospital. It will be like Knock Airport back in the day. A lot of criticism but now considered a great investment.

That's a reply that belongs in the WTF Thread! How many times do Fine Gael have to kick people in the ba11s before they stop crawling back for more?
You're talking about a hospital that was supposed to be completed by 2020 and at a budget of €650 million. Would you say delivering it 5 years late (at the earliest), and €1.5 BILLION over budget says about FGs competency? What does the bike shed episode suggest they have learned from the hospital build? And of course people want a modern, fit for purpose children's hospital,  but you're not seriously suggesting that such a thing can't possibly be delivered for any less than €2.2 billion? Accidentally the most expensive hospital ever but ok earth. "Who cares" sez he. Mad.

[armaghniac]

I think a lot may have made the decision when they were facing a beating from the electorate. But things took a turn. While the Irish working class that looked set to flock to Sinn Fein are left on economic matters, they are similar to British working class in that they are right wing on immigration. So SF looking like it was going to storm to victory have now lost that vote to a motley crew of independents and lost some of younger vote by wavering on things like climate. Fine Gael are really accidentally finding themselves in a stronger position though Harris is clearly more popular with their traditional base than Varadkar.[

I do not think that the Irish working class are right wing or as anti immigration as in Britain. However, even if you are fully accepting of immigrants as individuals you can reasonably believe that there are too many of them. SF managed to give the impression that more immigration was desirable and the more the merrier, and this is totally in contradiction to their ranting about housing.

That's a reply that belongs in the WTF Thread! How many times do Fine Gael have to kick people in the ba11s before they stop crawling back for more?
You're talking about a hospital that was supposed to be completed by 2020 and at a budget of €650 million. Would you say delivering it 5 years late (at the earliest), and €1.5 BILLION over budget says about FGs competency? What does the bike shed episode suggest they have learned from the hospital build? And of course people want a modern, fit for purpose children's hospital,  but you're not seriously suggesting that such a thing can't possibly be delivered for any less than €2.2 billion? Accidentally the most expensive hospital ever but ok earth. "Who cares" sez he. Mad.

Who would you elect to do better? SF have no concept of controlling expenditure, as we have seen in NI.

[Snapchap]

That's a reply that belongs in the WTF Thread! How many times do Fine Gael have to kick people in the ba11s before they stop crawling back for more?
You're talking about a hospital that was supposed to be completed by 2020 and at a budget of €650 million. Would you say delivering it 5 years late (at the earliest), and €1.5 BILLION over budget says about FGs competency? What does the bike shed episode suggest they have learned from the hospital build? And of course people want a modern, fit for purpose children's hospital,  but you're not seriously suggesting that such a thing can't possibly be delivered for any less than €2.2 billion? Accidentally the most expensive hospital ever but ok earth. "Who cares" sez he. Mad.

Who would you elect to do better? SF have no concept of controlling expenditure, as we have seen in NI.

The executive have no fiscal powers so anyone who makes such silly comparisons may as well slap an "I don't know what I'm talking about" post-it to their forehead.

I honestly suspect boys like yourself and weareross are really not grasping how large a number €1.5 billion is. They went over budget by €1500,000,000. That's not an "ah sure who could do better", or an "ah sure it'll be grand when it's finished" as weareross says. It's mismanagement and incompetence and probably corruption on an eye watering scale.

Hospital aside, have you any thoughts on why over 50% of FG represents are not seeing re-election? A rate which as far as I can see is way above anything that has ever happened within a governing party anywhere in the world before?

[Pub Bore]

I think a lot may have made the decision when they were facing a beating from the electorate. But things took a turn. While the Irish working class that looked set to flock to Sinn Fein are left on economic matters, they are similar to British working class in that they are right wing on immigration. So SF looking like it was going to storm to victory have now lost that vote to a motley crew of independents and lost some of younger vote by wavering on things like climate. Fine Gael are really accidentally finding themselves in a stronger position though Harris is clearly more popular with their traditional base than Varadkar.[

I do not think that the Irish working class are right wing or as anti immigration as in Britain. However, even if you are fully accepting of immigrants as individuals you can reasonably believe that there are too many of them. SF managed to give the impression that more immigration was desirable and the more the merrier, and this is totally in contradiction to their ranting about housing.

That's a reply that belongs in the WTF Thread! How many times do Fine Gael have to kick people in the ba11s before they stop crawling back for more?
You're talking about a hospital that was supposed to be completed by 2020 and at a budget of €650 million. Would you say delivering it 5 years late (at the earliest), and €1.5 BILLION over budget says about FGs competency? What does the bike shed episode suggest they have learned from the hospital build? And of course people want a modern, fit for purpose children's hospital,  but you're not seriously suggesting that such a thing can't possibly be delivered for any less than €2.2 billion? Accidentally the most expensive hospital ever but ok earth. "Who cares" sez he. Mad.

Who would you elect to do better? SF have no concept of controlling expenditure, as we have seen in NI.

Really??

[armaghniac]

Who would you elect to do better? SF have no concept of controlling expenditure, as we have seen in NI.

Really??

Yes, really.
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/councils-20m-plan-to-duplicate-headquarters-branded-flagrant-waste-of-ratepayers-money-SXNMCBXPWRA6RJWCPG6HDO6KEU/

That's a reply that belongs in the WTF Thread! How many times do Fine Gael have to kick people in the ba11s before they stop crawling back for more?
You're talking about a hospital that was supposed to be completed by 2020 and at a budget of €650 million. Would you say delivering it 5 years late (at the earliest), and €1.5 BILLION over budget says about FGs competency? What does the bike shed episode suggest they have learned from the hospital build? And of course people want a modern, fit for purpose children's hospital,  but you're not seriously suggesting that such a thing can't possibly be delivered for any less than €2.2 billion? Accidentally the most expensive hospital ever but ok earth. "Who cares" sez he. Mad.

Who would you elect to do better? SF have no concept of controlling expenditure, as we have seen in NI.

The executive have no fiscal powers so anyone who makes such silly comparisons may as well slap an "I don't know what I'm talking about" post-it to their forehead.

I honestly suspect boys like yourself and weareross are grasping how large a number €1.5 billion is. They went over budget by €1500,000,000. That's not an "ah sure who could do better", or an "ah sure it'll be grand when it's finished" as weareross says. It's mismanagement and incompetence and probably corruption on an eye watering scale.

Hospital aside, have you any thoughts on why over 50% of FG represents are not seeing re-election? A rate which as far as I can see is way above anything that has ever happened within a governing party anywhere in the world before?

If you appoint a leader below the median age of the TDs then you remove a lot of hope for advancement.