Down Club Hurling & Football

[Hard2Listen2]

Areas that could be targeted are Newcastle and Downpatrick. Is there a hurling GPO?

I think Ulster GAA have GPOs who are dedicated specifically to hurling.
I assume they work in Down?

[befair]

When football was, as it should be, a hobby, dual players would have been more feasible. Now that even club teams are expected to live like Spartans and train like the SAS, it's no longer possible.
The pressure on playing fields of an extra code would also be too much for most clubs.

[Targetman]

Liatroim looking for a new senior football manager

[skat man]

Every club in Ireland should have a hurling team.

Great advantage.  So many cross over skills but the 'football people' in clubs thinks it a disadvantage.  It's an advantage.

Look at the top Dublin clubs, all dual clubs. Throw in Sleacht Néil, Loughmore Castleiney, Dunloy, Naas and a few Clare clubs etc.  These are just a few.

It's a bit like learning two languages - they complement each other and are of benefit, not, as people think, a disadvantage.

biggest city in ireland has enough players to support dual clubs. In other news water is wet . Sucessfull top level dual clubs are rare for a reason

[DuffGael]

The only way to improve hurling in Down is to get more clubs playing, we punch way above where we should and produce hurlers of real quality but just dont have the critical mass to be a top tier team. Some of the bigger football only clubs should start hurling.

Not much football played at the strongest hurling clubs either!

They are small clubs

[Splash]

Disappointing defeat to Kildare for the hurlers yesterday in the Kehoe Cup. No pre-season silverware this year.

Close enough game in the end. Ultimately you have to be happy enough with the pre-season. Beat Meath, and have the potential to beat Kildare. At the end of the day, when we play these teams later in the year, they will be, in all likelihood, must-win games to avoid relegation in the league and championship, let alone gain promotion. Hopefully we finish this preseason off well with a good performance over Wicklow in the next round.

Have to say, Kildare's Hurling Action Plan has been quite remarkable over the past few years, and would be great to see us implement something similar in Down.

How would you improve hurling in the county?

Great bit of hurling discussion going on today. Love to see it.

As others have said, the most fundamental thing which has to be done to improve hurling is to get more people playing hurling. At the end of the day, it boils down to that. I've said it before and I'll say it again; we are lucky to have the fourth biggest population in Ireland. Take out the usual arguments, that a lot of those people don't come from a club that offers hurling, or half of that population wouldn't be interested in hurling for political reasons. At the end of the day, there's  over half a million people in County Down. We should be trying to make hurling as accessible to each and every one of them.

The key thing, for me, would be to get more clubs offering hurling. The most obvious thing would be suggesting teams like RGU or Bryansford offering hurling. Downpatrick and Newcastle are two big population centres in South Down, and neither has a hurling team. Yes, Kilclief and Castlewellen are options for people in those towns, but let's face it, if you have to travel, no matter how little the distance, the game will not be as popular.

It would be great to see clubs that used to offer hurling revive it again. Darragh Cross and Glenn would be the two examples that spring to mind.

It would also be great to see a couple more new clubs come into existence in the near future.

The other big thing would be to improve the standard of the hurling that is being played. A complicated matter, but it has to be done.

Our schools could encourage the game more. Having more Down schools being competitive in the Mageen Cup would be great. Schools competition if often a good step between club and county. Giving more Down players the chance to play against quality opposition from other schools across Ulster would be beneficial in the long run.

There are other things I think that could be done to improve the quality of hurling in Down, but I think those 3 things would be a massive boost in particular.

I don't understand the opposition from some football people to having hurling in their club. If they don't like it, fine. Nobody will force them to play. Don't see why you would try to stop giving anyone else the chance to play it, though. I would agree that the hurling only clubs should offer football, but it's not a good reason to say 'Sure why would we start a hurling team if the Ardsmen aren't playing football.' Every club should offer both, as well as handball.

Regarding the success of dual clubs, Slaughtneil are/were a once in a generation team. You couldn't expect any dual club in Down to be operating at that level. There are plenty of dual clubs that are competitive in both. Dunloy in Antrim. Saint Eunan's in Donegal, etc.

It's ridiculous to think having a hurling team will hamper the football in the club. The Point reached a senior football final and won a junior hurling championship in the same year in 2022. The two can live side by side.

There's a lot that could be done to improve the hurling landscape in Down. But it's nothing that can't be done.

[skat man]

not opposition to hurling , im sure most like to watch a game . its the reality's of it . most clubs struggle for numbers as is , clubs who only have 1 code are doing what they can to promote their chosen code and even w then some are struggling . what clubs realistically in Down except maybe burren and kilcoo could field a hurling team seperate from the football team.
you wont convince people from either code in clubs with a smaller pick that dual can work , it doesnt , naming a few clubs who have done things in 1 off seasons wont change that. the problems of using the same players for both and burnout/injury , lack of facilities and both teams struggling due to training sessions being disrupted still remain . if you have soloutions to them real issues id be interested to hear .

[Splash]

You make it seem as though most clubs are struggling to field 15 players every week in the football. That's simply not the case. A lot of clubs already have reserve teams.

As I said, the most obvious answers would be RGU and Bryansford due to their population centres.

Saval, Mayobridge, Loughinisland, Darragh Cross, Glenn, to name a few.

Plenty of examples of clubs being able to sustain both.

Youre not necessarily using the same players for both codes. You wouldn't be expecting every player to be a dual player. The fact is you will have some fellas who just play football, and some who just play hurling. It's not simply a case of handing the senior football team hurls. You will have people playing hurling who don't play football for the club.

One shouldn't be hampering the other. If it is, you're doing something very wrong. 

Lack of facilities can be difficult, but a lot of clubs have at least two pitches, but you wouldn't be expecting hurling and football to be on the same night, anyway. It's just about being pragmatic with time slots.

The fact of the matter is most clubs in Down aren't struggling to field football teams. No reason most senior football clubs couldn't field a junior hurling team.

If football men are afraid that hurling may take away from football (I assume, because they're afraid lads will enjoy and commit to the hurling?), it is their responsibility to make sure football is enjoyable and keep people interested.

[skat man]

i dont agree on the clubs you suggested as some of them are 1 school clubs with limited numbers going in.

that aside the main issue with hurling though is the lack of appetite for it in clubs that dont provide it. its not like hurling is banned in them clubs , there just isnt an appetite. opening the kids up to the game by bringing it into more schools would be a suggestion because then the players come into clubs looking to play it and clubs maybe facilitate it then .

there is no worry about kids enjoying hurling more , thats evident by the amount of kids who play each code currently . Hurling people have an arrogance over the skill levels and beauty etc of their game and how its somehow better than the football , maybe lose that and people will embrace it more

[Splash]

What clubs would you recommend? Those are clubs that either have a decent population to draw from, or already have a bit of a hurling tradition.

Bringing hurling into schools and improving links between clubs and schools is something which needs to happen to help the game.

I think it goes without saying the fact that there's more kids playing football would be due to the fact that most clubs offer football, whilst most don't offer hurling.

The argument that's there no appetite for it doesn't stand very well. If you build it, they will come as they say.

Don't think you can brand all hurling people as arrogant. Absolutely, there are hurling snobs, same as there is with anything else. Doesn't have to stop people enjoying the game. There's people who have an arrogance about football. I never let them put me off enjoying football, the same way I never let those who have an arrogance around hurling put me off enjoying the small ball.

I'm not going to debate game which is better. It's a subjective matter. I personally prefer hurling. I also enjoy football. If someone prefers football, that's fair. It's a good game, too. Don't think anyone here said the skills and beauty of hurling are superior to that of football. Not really sure where you pulled that one from.

Telling me to 'maybe lose that arrogance' to try and get people to embrace the game isn't the best argument I've heard Skat Man, can't lie.

[thewobbler]

Hurling's challenge in growing within existing football clubs is not one of politics, logistics or player numbers. Those are things for further down the line.

Instead it's almost entirely a cultural challenge, one that is owing to a simple conundrum whereby attempts to  displace a multi-generational disinterest in hurling, are likely to be met with continued disinterest.

Even in the unlikely scenario of a club stumbling upon a messianic group of hurling coaches and admins at the same time, hurling would be a futile and short term project unless those people are immediately followed up by likeminded folks, and then again after those. Developing and maintaining a conveyor belt is, by some distance, the most essential difference between a GAA club flourishing and faltering, in any code. That means suitable and focused coaches ready to step in every other year. For hurling, those people aren't football people.

I would instead suggest the "hurling crowd" focus on two other angles.

One is that there's probably too many football clubs in Down as it stands. Just run with this. Football doesn't need a club in every last town and village, and hurling certainly doesn't. So the existing clubs should be absolutely targeting neighbouring club's primary schools, but only for hurling. And if e.g. driving from Mayobridge or Kilcoo to Hilltown, is proving too much effort, then there's no sport that's going to work out for that family. Don't make excuses about short distances.

The other is that a standalone club like Craobh Rua is probably more likely to attract players from a broader radius, than a club that is traditionally tied to one or two primary schools / parishes. I think this approach would likely serve e.g. the Mournes better, serve Lecale better, etc. and on top of that it would mean that hurling aficionados from those parts of the world, can come together and trust each other to maintain the conveyor belt.

[Splash]

You're absolutely right that the lack of an existing hurling culture is a massive problem. North Down offers a good opportunity. We are yet to build a real GAA presence in that part of the county. Ignoring political and social factors for a moment, if we could manage to establish GAA clubs in Bangor, Newtownards, etc., it could be easier to create a hurling culture in these clubs as opposed to clubs which already have a dominant football culture.

Keeping a conveyor belt going is essential. Look at Darragh Cross. They were a strong team, who produced county hurlers. And then when that generation was finished, they just disappeared.

I do agree with existing clubs drawing from other parishes. Shamrocks do this very well. Especially at under age. A lot of clubs could do well from some sort of mutual agreement, e.g, Ballela and Annaclone. I know what you're saying that if someone isn't willing to travel it will never work out, and this is correct, but at the end of the day, some people won't drive their kids for 15 min every Saturday to play hurling, when they could just go 2 minutes to the football club in their own parish. I'm not saying whether is right or wrong. I'm just saying you'll always have that. And you'll always have people loyal to one club and one club only. There will be many in Kilcoo who will never want to play for Clonduff. Again, this will always be a thing, and there's not much that can be done, but it will exist nonetheless.

The idea of standalone clubs is one Id like to see more of. It has been started in the Mournes, with the clubs feeding an underage club called Clann Mhúrn. Something similar could be trialed in Lecale, or between Glenn/Saval/Drumgrath, etc.

It offers an opportunity for hurling people to come together, and does away with the problem some people may have of playing for their rival parish.

If it happened, and these clubs had the success of Craobh Rua, it would be a massive boost.

[skat man]

i dont think there are clubs you can just say ok lets start there and get them to provide hurling. its the same as anything, its supply and demand , kids love any sport so create a demand by offering summer schemes in 3/4 close proximity clubs and in the local schools maybe you create 3/4 players from each with a passion for taking up hurling , then the idea of your standalone clubs comes into play , very good idea btw.

who funds all this i have no idea but asking non hurling clubs to just start providing it is a non starter in my opinion , the same as it would be for non football teams .

[clonian]

Lots of kids from non hurling clubs play with their schools so I think if the option was there kids would go and parents would take them.

One thing I disagree on is that clubs aren't against hurling (or any other sport). I've been involved with football and hurling for a few years at underage. Everyone wants players that play nothing else so you can give a full commitment to their wee team. I've heard lads boast their lad isn't even allowed to watch soccer on the TV like that's a good thing. Let them play as many sports as possible.

There was hurling days (2 Saturdays a month) to be set aside for underage tournaments, no football blitzes allowed. We had to fight for every one of the Saturdays during August and September and most of the days football won out. Nobody wants to give an inch.

The hurling summer schemes in non footballing clubs would be a great idea. Ballela always did hurling only cul camps and you got a lot of neighbouring clubs coming out to it and they would get an odd one staying on. They would of got quite a few girls from Dromore hockey club coming out to train during the summer too.

[Truth hurts]

Are there any injuries for this week's game in Aughrim?