IFA begging Ireland players to play for them

[Chrisowc]

Roger

Why do you think belting out the English national anthem at Northern Ireland games is appropriate?

Here we are belting out the English national anthem again

[saffron sam2]

Good man MW, always to pays to read the whole thread.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.600

[his holiness nb]

How do you manage to translate that into all Nationalists are bigots?

F**k knows    I was daft enough to register here to defend myself against that sort of daftness.  Must have been mad.  Oh well, it's been a gas lads. Bye

Ok you didnt suggest that I take it back, no need to leave in a huff though.
I am genuinely interested in hearing what makes a bigot in your opinion in relation to this matter as per my last post.

[MW]

Anthem of the host state is valid IMO, only if the other component parts of that state have the same protocol

Why? We already have different protocols - England and NI use GSTQ, Scotland and Wales use only their own chosen songs.

and if for example, the flag of the host state is also flown.

I don't think this is necessary either. (The IFA takes down the Union flag that usually flies at Windsor)

I genuinely think that the NI team is here to stay, what form that eventually does take will depend on the outcome of the current talks and the ambitions of young footballers from here. It will have nothing to do with political machinations, nor should it. It (the removal of GSTQ) is a concession only to equality and to how it should always have been.

I see it more along the lines of having a NI anthem for the NI team, as well as the point about the players.

  I am at a loss as to why many NI fans feel the need to use the British national anthem to express their identity, when they are to a man oposoed to the idea of a British team.

A point I have made to those (very small number now) who would bring Union flags to a match is - aren't you here to support Northern Ireland? Why do you think NI games are the place to proclaim your Britishness?

[armaghniac]

When talking about the FAI and IFA being sectarian, it should be borne in mind that the latter represents a sectarian entity, a place that is not a country or state but a part of a country defined by a local sectarian majority. This doesn't make OWC fans implicitly sectarian, but if you oppose sectarianism then you must be opposed to the continued separate existence of the IFA.

[Chrisowc]

When talking about the FAI and IFA being sectarian, it should be borne in mind that the latter represents a sectarian entity, a place that is not a country or state but a part of a country defined by a local sectarian majority. This doesn't make OWC fans implicitly sectarian, but if you oppose sectarianism then you must be opposed to the continued separate existence of the IFA.

OK.  Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't trying to wind anyone up.  All you have to do is look at the history of Irish football to see which association represents (in your words) a sectarian entity.

[MW]

Fair point. Still, someone is bound to point out that Fifa's rules would exclude those with Irish nationality from playing for the Republic of Ireland. If you think that's acceptable, fine. Don't be surprised if people are peeved and react badly.

I think the point needs to be made that playing for Northern Ireland doesn't make anyone less Irish, or indeed less of a citizen of the state they've chosen to be a citizen of. Also the point needs to be made that the Republic of Ireland team is precisely that, the team of the Republic of Ireland. Now I'm not disputing anyone's citizenship of that republic, but what I am disputing is the "Stopping Irish people playing for Ireland" or "Stopping Darron playing for his country" stuff. There's somehwat of a 'nationalist' point to be made that Irishness isn't just a phenomenon of the 26 county state. (This para is a bit rambly and not too well-worded, I admit...)

There's another way through this, which could be adopted either way FIFA rule. The RoI could select any RoI citizen, but players would be 'locked in' to a choice once they had played at any level.

[MW]

When talking about the FAI and IFA being sectarian, it should be borne in mind that the latter represents a sectarian entity, a place that is not a country or state but a part of a country defined by a local sectarian majority. This doesn't make OWC fans implicitly sectarian, but if you oppose sectarianism then you must be opposed to the continued separate existence of the IFA.

You tried this one on before and I've had it out with you.

Basically, it boils down to - "Give me a team that accords with my political outlook, or you are sectarian".

[armaghniac]

Indeed MW you said that I was some piece of work when I suggested this previously. However it is a fact that NI exists for sectarian reasons, you cannot deny this, although you could argue that sectarianism is a reality and so NI is an unpleasant necessity as a consequence.

[his holiness nb]

Perfectly clear Roger, you say you shouldnt let bigots determine that your anthem be changed.
Nifan wants the anthem changed, but you wont call him a bigot.

I don't think our National Anthem should be changed at the behest of bigots. 
Nifan is not a bigot from what I can see but wants to change it which is fair enough and a discussion in an appropriate forum is fine even if I am coming from a different viewpoint at this time. 

Point taken, put it like this. I am not a NI soccer fan, or a ROI soccer fan. But while on the topic I think the anthem should be changed to ensure it more accurately represents both unionists and nationalists (who abhor this anthem).
I'm not demanding anything, just an opinion.
Is this a bigoted viewpoint?
I'm just trying to understand when your opinion of bigot appplies.

Did this Roger fella leave as quick as he arrived?

Good way to avoiding answering the questions put to him. I suppose he will be telling his OWC mates of the dogs abuse he got on here 

[Chrisowc]

Indeed MW you said that I was some piece of work when I suggested this previously. However it is a fact that NI exists for sectarian reasons, you cannot deny this, although you could argue that sectarianism is a reality and so NI is an unpleasant necessity as a consequence.

Northern Ireland exists due to a Unionist majority living here.  It has already been cleared up on this thread that attaching the label Unionist or Nationalist to someone is not sectarian

[T Fearon]

If Roger is the same Roger (aka bitter bastard) on OWC, then he is a nasty piece of work.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that the IFA must remove the exclusively unionist baggage from Windsor Park, if it is to attract cross community support, principally the English National anthem and bastardised ulster flags for starters. Also the name "Northern Ireland" is not acceptable to me nor the vast majority of nationalists.

At the moment the IFA is surely in breach of a raft of equality legislation including Flags and Emblems, Employment discrimination, Racism to name but three.

It has mountains of work to do before it can even think of attracting cross community support. Sadly I think it has neither the will nor the ability to do this.

[MW]

Indeed MW you said that I was some piece of work when I suggested this previously. However it is a fact that NI exists for sectarian reasons, you cannot deny this, although you could argue that sectarianism is a reality and so NI is an unpleasant necessity as a consequence.

I can.  

NI exists because a majority of the people here want be be part of the United Kingdom.

Do you label the Croatian FA's existence as sectarian, or perhaps racist or xenophobic? The Polish FA's? The Latvian FA's?

Why exactly should there be an international football team whose territory crosses an international border, a situation which doesn't exist in world football, just because your political outlook wants it that way?

[MW]

Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that the IFA must remove the exclusively unionist baggage from Windsor Park, if it is to attract cross community support, principally the English National anthem and bastardised ulster flags for starters. Also the name "Northern Ireland" is not acceptable to me nor the vast majority of nationalists.

Brilliant Tony, I have to hand it to you for that one

[T Fearon]

Merely staing a fact. The name of the sectarian RUC was changed to make the force more acceptable to nationalists. The name of the IFA's soccer side similarly must be changed. These are all factors why I and all nationalists support the FAI team, why nationalist players want to play for the FAI side, and FIFA should be investigating the reasons here. Imagine if 50% of the people of France or England shunned the French or English international teams?