prods in the 26

[Milltown Row2]

Also, I note that you talk about Britishness in Britain, as opposed to Britishness in the UK. Any particular reason why you chose that form of words?

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has two parts. In any normal union people would be clear which bit there were from, and staunch in their identity to that part,  rather than identifying with the other bit. The UK is not a real union, it is Britain and a colonial appendage. In the original act of Union with Ireland  the British simply carried on talking about the British government and the British Army etc. as if nothing had happened, because of course nothing had happened  as it was not intended to be an equal union. In a real union people in NI would object to this onsidedness and insist on the term UK being used for official purposes. But were someone to propose greater use of the term UK the greatest opposition to it would be in NI where people would object to being UKites, but would demand to be "British". That is because their affinity is not with their own part of the union, but the colonial identity. If unionist had any real wish for an inclusive NI, inclusive of the Irish people there, remaining in the UK indefinitely they would drop this British this and emphasise the UK thing. But there is zero chance of them doing that.

You keep answering your own posts, I think the clue is they are Unionists and prefer (rightly or wrongly, depending on how you view it) to be British, it doesn't matter that you can explain the make up of the union and how it actually is legally, they would prefer collectively to be part of the UK and have the queen as the head of the state, is that a bad thing? We can't go forcing views on people because it was forced on us. In due time I'm sure it will (like Scotland) get to the point were democratically the referendum will take place and that will give everyone a truer picture.

[armaghniac]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

[michaelg]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Do you know many Protestants?

[armaghniac]

I know as many Protestants as anyone else, given their proportion in Ireland's population. Also I know many people where I have no idea what church, if any, they attend.

[LeoMc]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

[armaghniac]

Thinking yourself Irish in Ireland is simple normality and so not likely to disappear. Thinking yourself other things tends to disappear over the generations.

[BennyCake]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

[LeoMc]

Thinking yourself Irish in Ireland is simple normality and so not likely to disappear. Thinking yourself other things tends to disappear over the generations.

Indeed, but not overnight and that needs to be catered for.

[LeoMc]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

[BennyCake]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

Maybe so, but it's incorrect.

[LeoMc]

So because we live in a British jurisdiction we should rank being British (or UKish) ahead of being Irish?

As Lord Craigavon said "We are Irishmen ... I always hold that Ulstermen are Irishmen and the best of Irishmen."
If you believe that this part of Ireland should be in a political link with Britain then fair enough, it should not diminish the Irishness of Belfast. You can make a case for the UK thing, but that has rarely been made, the fleg issue is only portrayed by those who want a fleg as something they own being imposed on themmuns (because we won the battle of the Boyne).

Indeed everyone native to this Island is Irish whether they acknowledge it or not but Ireland is one of the British Isles so you could argue everyone native to these islands is British whether they like it or not.

Anyway to get back on track  the discussion was on Protestants in the 26. 90 years of living in a British state has not diminished most of our Irishness so it may not have diminished the sense of Britishness of some of those who may consider they were abandoned by Carson. 90 years of a UI may not diminish the sense of Britishness of some of the current generation of unionism so they should be accommodated better than we were.

It's the British and Irish isles. The Aran Islands or The Blaskets aren't part of Britain, are they?

Did someone say they were?

The British and Irish Islands is one of a number (and the most politically correct) term for these Islands but There is no official correct nomenclature and the term I used is the most wildly used.

Maybe so, but it's incorrect.

Like I say there is no official name.

[cadhlancian]

Leo, you ARE wrong. Ireland is not part of the British isles, regardless of how you wanna mince it.

[ardal]

I may be wrong but when studying, a geographical term used was "The British isles" which referred to the totality of both islands.
It was a geography term, not political in sense originally. Thus I believe the term is correct, even though I dislike it.

[BennyCake]

Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

[michaelg]

Political or not, it's incorrect. In the same way it's incorrect when Unionists refer to the North as 'Ulster'.

Or like when Nationalists refer to Northern Ireland as the North perhaps. What about poor old Donegal?