Woolwich Islamic Terrorist Attack

[red hander]

Red hander

That fella who spoke to the cameras after the attack was a red hander too.

No relation, thank God (or should that be Allah?)

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Rangers, EDL, BNP, Orange Order, DUP, UKIP, Milwall, Loyalist types getting all worked up over nothing.

They seem to think it is called Achill Islam, rather than Achill Island.

http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.302.347/9717/0/

[muppet]

Rangers, EDL, BNP, Orange Order, DUP, UKIP, Milwall, Loyalist types getting all worked up over nothing.

They seem to think it is called Achill Islam, rather than Achill Island.

http://www.newstalk.ie/reader/47.302.347/9717/0/

This is a great line: "Take ignorance, energise with anger. Remove care for a moment's thought and add the internet."

Although he missed illiteracy, imagine misreading 'Achill Island' as '<something> Islam'.

[whitey]

LOL...that would explain my near decapitation, from a clothesline tackle, while playing against Achill in a Kelly Cup game about 20 years ago.

(FYI the Kelly Cup is a very glamorous Junior B contest held in the West Mayo Division during the months of February and March)

[give her dixie]

http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/iraq/2500-john-pilger-why-the-iniquity-of-tony-blairs-iraq-crimes-are-on-a-par-with-the-woolwich-killing

John Pilger: why iniquity of Tony Blair's Iraq crimes is on a par with Woolwich killing

The dust in Iraq rolls down the long roads that are the desert's fingers. It gets in your eyes and nose and throat; it swirls in markets and school playgrounds, consuming children kicking a ball; and it carries, according to Dr Jawad Al-Ali, "the seeds of our death".

An internationally respected cancer specialist at the Sadr teaching hospital in Basra, Dr Ali told me that in 1999, and today his warning is irrefutable.

"Before the Gulf war," he said, "we had two or three cancer patients a month. Now we have 30 to 35 dying every month. Our studies indicate that 40 to 48% of the population in this area will get cancer: in five years' time to begin with, then long after.
That's almost half the population. Most of my own family have it, and we have no history of the disease. It is like Chernobyl here; the genetic effects are new to us; the mushrooms grow huge; even the grapes in my garden have mutated and can't be eaten."

Along the corridor, Dr Ginan Ghalib Hassen, a paediatrician, kept a photo album of the children she was trying to save. Many had neuroblastoma. "Before the war, we saw only one case of this unusual tumour in two years," she said. "Now we have many cases, mostly with no family history. I have studied what happened in Hiroshima. The sudden increase of such congenital malformations is the same."

Among the doctors I interviewed, there was little doubt that depleted uranium shells used by the Americans and British in the Gulf war were the cause. A US military physicist assigned to clean up the Gulf war battlefield across the border in Kuwait said, "Each round fired by an A-10 Warhog attack aircraft carried over 4,500 grams of solid uranium. Well over 300 tons of DU was used. It was a form of nuclear warfare."

Although the link with cancer is always difficult to prove absolutely, the Iraqi doctors argue that "the epidemic speaks for itself". The British oncologist Karol Sikora, chief of the World Health Organisation's cancer programme in the 1990s, wrote in the British Medical Journal: "Requested radiotherapy equipment, chemotherapy drugs and analgesics are consistently blocked by United States and British advisers [to the Iraq sanctions committee]." He told me, "We were specifically told [by the WHO] not to talk about the whole Iraq business. The WHO is not an organisation that likes to get involved in politics."

Recently, Hans von Sponeck, former assistant secretary general of the United Nations and senior UN humanitarian official in Iraq, wrote to me: "The US government sought to prevent WHO from surveying areas in southern Iraq where depleted uranium had been used and caused serious health and environmental dangers." A WHO report, the result of a landmark study conducted with the Iraqi ministry of health, has been "delayed". Covering 10,800 households, it contains "damning evidence", says a ministry official and, according to one of its researchers, remains "top secret". The report says birth defects have risen to a "crisis" right across Iraqi society where depleted uranium and other toxic heavy metals were used by the US and Britain. Fourteen years after he sounded the alarm, Dr Jawad Al-Ali reports "phenomenal" multiple cancers in entire families.

Iraq is no longer news. Last week, the killing of 57 Iraqis in one day was a non-event compared with the murder of a British soldier in London. Yet the two atrocities are connected. Their emblem might be a lavish new movie of F Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby. Two of the main characters, as Fitzgerald wrote, "smashed up things and creatures and retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness ... and let other people clean up the mess".

The "mess" left by George Bush and Tony Blair in Iraq is a sectarian war, the bombs of 7/7 and now a man waving a bloody meat cleaver in Woolwich. Bush has retreated back into his Mickey Mouse "presidential library and museum" and Tony Blair into his jackdaw travels and his money.

Their "mess" is a crime of epic proportions, wrote Von Sponeck, referring to the Iraqi ministry of social affairs' estimate of 4.5 million children who have lost one or both parents. "This means a horrific 14% of Iraq's population are orphans," he wrote. "An estimated one million families are headed by women, most of them widows". Domestic violence and child abuse are rightly urgent issues in Britain; in Iraq the catastrophe ignited by Britain has brought violence and abuse into millions of homes.

In her book Dispatches from the Dark Side, Gareth Peirce, Britain's greatest human rights lawyer, applies the rule of law to Blair, his propagandist Alastair Campbell and his colluding cabinet. For Blair, she wrote, "human beings presumed to hold [Islamist] views, were to be disabled by any means possible, and permanently ... in Blair's language a 'virus' to be 'eliminated' and requiring 'a myriad of interventions [sic] deep into the affairs of other nations.' The very concept of war was mutated to 'our values versus theirs'." And yet, says Peirce, "the threads of emails, internal government communiques, reveal no dissent".

For foreign secretary Jack Straw, sending innocent British citizens to Guantánamo was "the best way to meet our counter-terrorism objective".

These crimes, their iniquity on a par with Woolwich, await prosecution. But who will demand it? In the kabuki theatre of Westminster politics, the faraway violence of "our values" is of no interest. Do the rest of us also turn our backs?

[seafoid]

http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/iraq/2500-john-pilger-why-the-iniquity-of-tony-blairs-iraq-crimes-are-on-a-par-with-the-woolwich-killing

John Pilger: why iniquity of Tony Blair's Iraq crimes is on a par with Woolwich killing

The dust in Iraq rolls down the long roads that are the desert's fingers. It gets in your eyes and nose and throat; it swirls in markets and school playgrounds, consuming children kicking a ball; and it carries, according to Dr Jawad Al-Ali, "the seeds of our death".

An internationally respected cancer specialist at the Sadr teaching hospital in Basra, Dr Ali told me that in 1999, and today his warning is irrefutable.

"Before the Gulf war," he said, "we had two or three cancer patients a month. Now we have 30 to 35 dying every month. Our studies indicate that 40 to 48% of the population in this area will get cancer: in five years' time to begin with, then long after.
That's almost half the population. Most of my own family have it, and we have no history of the disease. It is like Chernobyl here; the genetic effects are new to us; the mushrooms grow huge; even the grapes in my garden have mutated and can't be eaten."

Along the corridor, Dr Ginan Ghalib Hassen, a paediatrician, kept a photo album of the children she was trying to save. Many had neuroblastoma. "Before the war, we saw only one case of this unusual tumour in two years," she said. "Now we have many cases, mostly with no family history. I have studied what happened in Hiroshima. The sudden increase of such congenital malformations is the same."

Among the doctors I interviewed, there was little doubt that depleted uranium shells used by the Americans and British in the Gulf war were the cause. A US military physicist assigned to clean up the Gulf war battlefield across the border in Kuwait said, "Each round fired by an A-10 Warhog attack aircraft carried over 4,500 grams of solid uranium. Well over 300 tons of DU was used. It was a form of nuclear warfare."

Although the link with cancer is always difficult to prove absolutely, the Iraqi doctors argue that "the epidemic speaks for itself". The British oncologist Karol Sikora, chief of the World Health Organisation's cancer programme in the 1990s, wrote in the British Medical Journal: "Requested radiotherapy equipment, chemotherapy drugs and analgesics are consistently blocked by United States and British advisers [to the Iraq sanctions committee]." He told me, "We were specifically told [by the WHO] not to talk about the whole Iraq business. The WHO is not an organisation that likes to get involved in politics."

Recently, Hans von Sponeck, former assistant secretary general of the United Nations and senior UN humanitarian official in Iraq, wrote to me: "The US government sought to prevent WHO from surveying areas in southern Iraq where depleted uranium had been used and caused serious health and environmental dangers." A WHO report, the result of a landmark study conducted with the Iraqi ministry of health, has been "delayed". Covering 10,800 households, it contains "damning evidence", says a ministry official and, according to one of its researchers, remains "top secret". The report says birth defects have risen to a "crisis" right across Iraqi society where depleted uranium and other toxic heavy metals were used by the US and Britain. Fourteen years after he sounded the alarm, Dr Jawad Al-Ali reports "phenomenal" multiple cancers in entire families.

Iraq is no longer news. Last week, the killing of 57 Iraqis in one day was a non-event compared with the murder of a British soldier in London. Yet the two atrocities are connected. Their emblem might be a lavish new movie of F Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby. Two of the main characters, as Fitzgerald wrote, "smashed up things and creatures and retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness ... and let other people clean up the mess".

The "mess" left by George Bush and Tony Blair in Iraq is a sectarian war, the bombs of 7/7 and now a man waving a bloody meat cleaver in Woolwich. Bush has retreated back into his Mickey Mouse "presidential library and museum" and Tony Blair into his jackdaw travels and his money.

Their "mess" is a crime of epic proportions, wrote Von Sponeck, referring to the Iraqi ministry of social affairs' estimate of 4.5 million children who have lost one or both parents. "This means a horrific 14% of Iraq's population are orphans," he wrote. "An estimated one million families are headed by women, most of them widows". Domestic violence and child abuse are rightly urgent issues in Britain; in Iraq the catastrophe ignited by Britain has brought violence and abuse into millions of homes.

In her book Dispatches from the Dark Side, Gareth Peirce, Britain's greatest human rights lawyer, applies the rule of law to Blair, his propagandist Alastair Campbell and his colluding cabinet. For Blair, she wrote, "human beings presumed to hold [Islamist] views, were to be disabled by any means possible, and permanently ... in Blair's language a 'virus' to be 'eliminated' and requiring 'a myriad of interventions [sic] deep into the affairs of other nations.' The very concept of war was mutated to 'our values versus theirs'." And yet, says Peirce, "the threads of emails, internal government communiques, reveal no dissent".

For foreign secretary Jack Straw, sending innocent British citizens to Guantánamo was "the best way to meet our counter-terrorism objective".

These crimes, their iniquity on a par with Woolwich, await prosecution. But who will demand it? In the kabuki theatre of Westminster politics, the faraway violence of "our values" is of no interest. Do the rest of us also turn our backs?

Iraq is on a par with the Khmer Rouge. "To destroy you is no loss, to preserve you is no gain".   
Woolwich isn't.

[stew]

Allow me if you will to state my dire and depressing synopsis of what we saw yesterday and matters relating to it.

In recent years especially post 9/11 in multicultural England towns with large Muslim communities have seen the slow entrenching and segregation of cultural and religious groups. One in particular being Luton. This town by no coincidence has spawned both radical islamist groups and the EDL. Coupling multicultural society with post-colonialism and the wests insatiable need for oil it is inevitable that there would be conflict abroad and resentment at home.

One gets the sense that the decent into sectarian violence almost on a level with that of the troubles is not all that far away. The economic depression in Europe is starting to put a strain on community relations and given that loyalty to a state is usually low within immigrant communities and particularly those from very different cultural backgrounds and possibly coming from the poorer side of history, it should not surprise us to see rioting and other outbursts against states they may feel they owe nothing to. See Stockholm.

Only a few weeks ago a group of young muslim men were arrested for planning a terrorist attack. Their target was an EDL march.  While we may revile the EDL, they did not fall out of a tree and they do have the right to march and protest within certain limits. We can only imagine what the reprisals may have been for a successful attack on this march. You get the feeling that tit-for-tat violence may spiral out of control and who knows where that may lead.

Also recent events and challenges to traditions has brought thinkers on the right to start calling into question what is happening to European society. They have accused liberalism of having lead us into being unable to define ourselves and defend ourselves. Last week in what some thought was an act against gay marriage, Dominique Venner placed an envelope on the altar at Notre Dame cathedral in Paris. He then shot himself in the head in front of startled tourists. Venner was, as he wrote in his letter, for a common, greater good removing his own life, hoping younger men will be inspired to reverse Europe's decline and secure its destiny. Venner hoped, and we may yet see, that right wing opposition may take radical action in future to achieve this. Of course Brevik got there first.

We supposedly live in an age of tolerance. But tolerance is a dangerous word, for what does it really mean. That we do not love but merely put up with that which we'd rather not have in our midst. So now we lie with the strangest of bedfellows, I hate to be so pessimistic but we may find that tolerance has its limits and the multicultural ideology while it seemed like a nice idea back in the 1960's may not be worth all the trouble.

I think that's a good summary juice but if you look at the North the cost of allowing the society to slip into nihilism is too high and in nobody's interest. It is not like some switch that can be reversed either.
It isn't good for business and those are the ones who decide most things.

I was at a conference on the banks yesterday and Ajay Chopra from the IMF was talking about a system for bank resolution. Needs to be credible and have enough resources behind it. The same goes for integration of poor Muslims into British society.   

Any work with disadvantaged sectors needs money . You can't tell 10 year olds with behavioural problems to cop on and do their homework like the middle class kids.
They need one on one support and people who can show them an alternative path.

A lot of the more radical Muslim stuff that draws disaffected people in is bollocks but of course it's not helpful either for the Yanks and the Brits to bomb Pakistan and Afghanistan whenever they fancy.

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a bastard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

[muppet]

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a b**tard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

It never ceases to amaze me that post Stalin and Adolf, that this bile actually passes for discourse in a 1st world country.

[All of a Sludden]

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

Normal kids don't attract enough benefits. 


Meanwhile, as if we expected anything else. http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/men-charged-with-mosque-arson-were-british-soldiers-595854.html

[Rossfan]

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a b**tard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

It never ceases to amaze me that post Stalin and Adolf, that this bile actually passes for discourse in a 1st world country.

It's terrible to see an Irishman deleting his entire IQ and turning into a Yank.

[stew]

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a b**tard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

It never ceases to amaze me that post Stalin and Adolf, that this bile actually passes for discourse in a 1st world country.

Fack aff, one on one time for these kids? again I ask, where are the funds coming from to pay people to work with these kids? Are their parents incapable of doing whatever it takes to help their kids get on the right path or should the State pay someone to in a one on one situation, how many kids would require this one one one time?



As for that other tit, I am Irish not a yank and questioning people's IQ, really?

So the parents are not to be held accountable for the kids behavior, certainly the kid cannot be held accountable so that leaves the State, yeah, we will fob little Jimmy's behavior off on the Government and let the taxpayer pay for some one on one time because we as parents are not able to take care of our own business.

[muppet]

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a b**tard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

It never ceases to amaze me that post Stalin and Adolf, that this bile actually passes for discourse in a 1st world country.

Fack aff, one on one time for these kids? again I ask, where are the funds coming from to pay people to work with these kids? Are their parents incapable of doing whatever it takes to help their kids get on the right path or should the State pay someone to in a one on one situation, how many kids would require this one one one time?



As for that other tit, I am Irish not a yank and questioning people's IQ, really?

So the parents are not to be held accountable for the kids behavior, certainly the kid cannot be held accountable so that leaves the State, yeah, we will fob little Jimmy's behavior off on the Government and let the taxpayer pay for some one on one time because we as parents are not able to take care of our own business.

You are arguing the usual straw man about the parents being held accountable. Like I said, that lazy stereotype doesn't pass as a serious argument anywhere else, at least not since WW2.

When presented with the issue of a child with behavioural issues here is the standard response: resort to tired insulting rant blaming his parents and some politicians which you don't like. But whatever you do don't pretend the society which you are part of has any responsibility or obligations to the boy.

[stew]

fcuk you are some pup, I assume the 10 year old with behavioral problems has parents, where would the money come from to pay for this one on one support?

Hold someone accountable for the kids behavior, here's a radical thought, how about mummy and or daddy sat the wee fella down and tell him  to do his homework, get him into a routine every night same time for this work and if he fcuks about stick a boot up his hole, you namby pamby liberals make me want to puke!

The Muslims have been slapping the brit goivernment around for years, demanding this, demanding that, feck them, they are citizens and should be treated as equals and no more, Enoch Powell was a b**tard but he is proving to be right on the issue of immigration.

It never ceases to amaze me that post Stalin and Adolf, that this bile actually passes for discourse in a 1st world country.

Fack aff, one on one time for these kids? again I ask, where are the funds coming from to pay people to work with these kids? Are their parents incapable of doing whatever it takes to help their kids get on the right path or should the State pay someone to in a one on one situation, how many kids would require this one one one time?



As for that other tit, I am Irish not a yank and questioning people's IQ, really?

So the parents are not to be held accountable for the kids behavior, certainly the kid cannot be held accountable so that leaves the State, yeah, we will fob little Jimmy's behavior off on the Government and let the taxpayer pay for some one on one time because we as parents are not able to take care of our own business.

You are arguing the usual straw man about the parents being held accountable. Like I said, that lazy stereotype doesn't pass as a serious argument anywhere else, at least not since WW2.

When presented with the issue of a child with behavioural issues here is the standard response: resort to tired insulting rant blaming his parents and some politicians which you don't like. But whatever you do don't pretend the society which you are part of has any responsibility or obligations to the boy.

Lazy stereotype? eh the parents are accountable for their children, it is not a stereotype, it is a fact.

If the parents are not to be held responsible who is?

Again you failed to mention  who was going to pay for this one one one time with these kids? what qualifications do these thousands of helpers have in order to work with these kids?

I am assuming that since no human being is to be held accountable for the kids behavior it then it falls to the State to carry the burden, is that about the height of it?

How many children have behavioral issues in Britain? I would have to think there would be thousands of them your idea of one on one time for these kids is absolutely laughable, of course the State should carry some of the burden but the parents would need to be taught how to deal with these kids, I would say it would be better for the parents to be educated and trained in how to help their own than have some stranger try and straighten them out, it would also be far more cost effective!

By the way, you don't seem to feel that A, the parents bear any responsibility whatsoever and B you have no concept of what it means to be a parent if you think the parents are not a big part of this kids behavior and that they should be held accountable to raise him to be a decent citizen, they should get help sure but not one on one help like you laughably suggest!

We raised our two girls and thank God we never had issues that these people face, if we had we would have met it head on, got ourselves educated on how to best handle it and we would have worked hard at getting to behave, end of.

[seafoid]

Stew-  a lot of poverty is systemic. Apple stashes 100bn abroad instead of paying taxes, for example.

Many poor people don't have problems with their kids but some do. Middle class people too. There can be loads of reasons.
A woman I know from work just got a super promotion but her kids are neglected and all the other kids can't stand them. 

[muppet]

Lazy stereotype? eh the parents are accountable for their children, it is not a stereotype, it is a fact.

If the parents are not to be held responsible who is?

Again you failed to mention  who was going to pay for this one one one time with these kids? what qualifications do these thousands of helpers have in order to work with these kids?

I am assuming that since no human being is to be held accountable for the kids behavior it then it falls to the State to carry the burden, is that about the height of it?

How many children have behavioral issues in Britain? I would have to think there would be thousands of them your idea of one on one time for these kids is absolutely laughable, of course the State should carry some of the burden but the parents would need to be taught how to deal with these kids, I would say it would be better for the parents to be educated and trained in how to help their own than have some stranger try and straighten them out, it would also be far more cost effective!

By the way, you don't seem to feel that A, the parents bear any responsibility whatsoever and B you have no concept of what it means to be a parent if you think the parents are not a big part of this kids behavior and that they should be held accountable to raise him to be a decent citizen, they should get help sure but not one on one help like you laughably suggest!

We raised our two girls and thank God we never had issues that these people face, if we had we would have met it head on, got ourselves educated on how to best handle it and we would have worked hard at getting to behave, end of.

As usual you assume I am making the most extreme argument and dig a trench and fight against it. No one is saying that parents should never be held accountable and equally no one is saying that the State must always be 100% responsible. There is a balance to these things.

Most parents will do everything they can for their kids. This has nothing to do with class, wealth or whether you vote Republican or Democrat. But blindly blaming parents for behavioural problems and absolving the State from responsibility is a recipe for disaster. The States has the highest incarceration rate on earth and probably in history. How much does that cost? How many victims of senseless crime might be saved if some of those incarcerated were caught early (i.e. as soon as they demonstrated the first sign of behavioural or learning difficulty) and set straight?