Margaret Thatcher....

[johnneycool]

+1

Just wondering .....has anyone within unionist political circles ever acknowledged the shameful way they ran this country to suit themselves after partition? Maybe they're not allowed to

I remember a program on either UTV or BBC NI about showing old super 8 film footage or some other camcorder effort from viewers and their archives from the 60's, 70's and beyond, one of the opening lines from whoever was narrating it was 'wasn't this a great wee place until the troubles', f**k I near threw the remote at the TV in disgust.

This is the line trotted out by most unionists as they just either were far removed what was happening nationalists/catholics or they just didn't care. This mentality is still embedded into them as they did nothing wrong and all the bad came from the IRA who didn't really exist in a meaningful way when all this came to a head.
Just look how they react to the historical inquiries investigations.

[seafoid]

+1

Just wondering .....has anyone within unionist political circles ever acknowledged the shameful way they ran this country to suit themselves after partition? Maybe they're not allowed to

I remember a program on either UTV or BBC NI about showing old super 8 film footage or some other camcorder effort from viewers and their archives from the 60's, 70's and beyond, one of the opening lines from whoever was narrating it was 'wasn't this a great wee place until the troubles', f**k I near threw the remote at the TV in disgust.

This is the line trotted out by most unionists as they just either were far removed what was happening nationalists/catholics or they just didn't care. This mentality is still embedded into them as they did nothing wrong and all the bad came from the IRA who didn't really exist in a meaningful way when all this came to a head.
Just look how they react to the historical inquiries investigations.

I think John Hewitt's poem "the Coasters" nails that particular argument

http://virtualmethodist.blogspot.ch/2009/09/coasters.html

You coasted along
To larger houses, gadgets, more machines
To golf and weekend bungalows,
Caravans when the children were small,
the Mediterranean, later, with the wife.



You did not go to Church often,
Weddings were special;
But you kept your name on the books
Against eventualities;
And the parson called, or the curate.



You showed a sense of responsibility,
With subscriptions to worthwhile causes
And service in voluntary organisations;
And, anyhow, this did the business no harm,
No harm at all.
Relations were improving. A good
useful life. You coasted along.



You even had a friend of two of the other sort,
Coasting too: your ways ran parallel.
Their children and yours seldom met, though,
Being at different schools.
You visited each other, decent folk with a sense
Of humour. Introduced, even, to
One of their clergy. And then you smiled
In the looking-glass, admiring, a
Little moved by, your broadmindedness.
Your father would never have known
One of them. Come to think of it,
When you were young, your own home was never
Visited by one of the other sort.

Relations were improving. The annual processions
began to look rather like folk-festivals.



When that noisy preacher started,
he seemed old-fashioned, a survival.
Later you remarked on his vehemence,
a bit on the rough side.
But you said, admit, you said in the club,
'You know, there's something in what he says'.



And you who seldom had time to read a book,
what with reports and the colour-supplements,
denounced censorship.
And you who never had an adventurous thought
were positive that the church of the other sort
vetoes thought.
And you who simply put up with marriage
for the children's sake, deplored
the attitude of the other sort
to divorce.
You coasted along.
And all the time, though you never noticed,
The old lies festered;
the ignorant became more thoroughly infected;
there were gains, of course;
you never saw any go barefoot.

The government permanent, sustained
by the regular plebiscites of loyalty.
You always voted but never
put a sticker on your car;
a card in the window
would not have been seen from the street.
Faces changed on posters, names too, often,
but the same families, the same class of people.
A Minister once called you by your first name.
You coasted along
and the sores supperated and spread.



Now the fever is high and raging;
Who would have guessed it, coasting along?
The ignorant-sick thresh about in delirium
And tear at the scabs with dirty finger-nails.
The cloud of infection hangs over the city,
A quick change of wind and it
Might spill over the leafy suburbs.
You coasted along.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Running away from nothing - a majority wanted to stay in the union and they got it. Democracy

The majority of Ireland wanted independence.
The majority of Ulster wanted independence.

All based on Unionist/Loyalist threats of Civil War and Paramilitary war against the majority community and the forces of the British crown. Sectarianism, bigoted bias, Impearlism meant that the minority got their own little way as per usual. It is the exact same as if the Afrikaners had been allowed to get their own white majority country which submitted large amounts of other majority and minority groups to their eternal rule and domination. The Afrikaners tried it, but South Africa and the International community was having none of it.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

LCohen has demonstrated himself to be nothing more than an adherent of Protestant supremacy in Ireland, rather sinisterly, alas.

[LCohen]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Have I denied protestant misrule?

Have I attempted to justify misrule/discrimination?

If so, point out the references.

I have asked you lot to identify the murders by the IRA that were justified. Not one single reply. Yous are struggling with that one seemingly. Very hard to take you seriously.

[lynchbhoy]

To run away from the question admitting the north was I democratically founded, and reply with a request for a fit for tat justification of all the killing done by IRA against the killing and persecution and generations of lives ruined by unionist/loyalist killer gangs/ruc/British army/b specials/ colluding unionist & political parties and their killing squads.

Some might say that none of the deaths were justified.
Others might say that they were all justified as retaliation especially when the ultimate goals of peace and equality have been realized.

It doesn't matter what is said as your blinkered outlook won't deviate from the unionist/loyalist party line!

[glens abu]

Simple for me all those involved with the RUC,UDR,British Army,RIR,UDA,UVF,UFF,SAS,informers,prison officers,and all others who assisted in any way the upkeep of these thugs and oppressed the Nationalist people.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Have I denied protestant misrule?

Have I attempted to justify misrule/discrimination?

If so, point out the references.

I have asked you lot to identify the murders by the IRA that were justified. Not one single reply. Yous are struggling with that one seemingly. Very hard to take you seriously.

You justify the unionist/loyalist 'right' to carve up territory, however small, wherein they constitute a 'majority', however construed and constructed, at every turn. Yet, not once, not one measly time, have you defended the right of the natives to protect their polity. (And you've also ignored those posts hereon for which you have no answer.)

You're a fairly nasty piece of work in my book.

[the waffler]

The Provo's first came about for protection of the catholic population not to fight the Brits for a united ireland it was protection from the loyalists,ruc ,b specials.Yes then the situation changed but the Provo's were in part a creation of the unionist regime that ran the place for themselves,but ya dint hear that that's why they are afraid of the maze long kesh project because people will question why the Provo's started wont look kindly on the unionist c***ts

[Eamonnca1]

Sorry, Lcohen, I've somehow overlooked your answer to this:

Just before the passage of the Act of Union, was Ireland being governed as a single entity or was it not?

Care to repeat it?

[LCohen]

To run away from the question admitting the north was I democratically founded, and reply with a request for a fit for tat justification of all the killing done by IRA against the killing and persecution and generations of lives ruined by unionist/loyalist killer gangs/ruc/British army/b specials/ colluding unionist & political parties and their killing squads.

Some might say that none of the deaths were justified.
Others might say that they were all justified as retaliation especially when the ultimate goals of peace and equality have been realized.

It doesn't matter what is said as your blinkered outlook won't deviate from the unionist/loyalist party line!

How have I ran away from the question about the foundation of NI. A majority of people in the 6 counties wanted to stay in UK. They stayed. The will of majority obviously impacted on the minority. Thats democracy.

Retaliation cannot be a justification for murder. What good does it do?

[LCohen]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Have I denied protestant misrule?

Have I attempted to justify misrule/discrimination?

If so, point out the references.

I have asked you lot to identify the murders by the IRA that were justified. Not one single reply. Yous are struggling with that one seemingly. Very hard to take you seriously.

You justify the unionist/loyalist 'right' to carve up territory, however small, wherein they constitute a 'majority', however construed and constructed, at every turn. Yet, not once, not one measly time, have you defended the right of the natives to protect their polity. (And you've also ignored those posts hereon for which you have no answer.)

You're a fairly nasty piece of work in my book.

Presumably if there was a vote in France and Spain on Catalan independence and a majority of Catalan's voted for indepence but that majority was not carried in wither Spain, France or both you would deny the democratic voice of the Catalans?

[LCohen]

Sorry, Lcohen, I've somehow overlooked your answer to this:

Just before the passage of the Act of Union, was Ireland being governed as a single entity or was it not?

Care to repeat it?

Apologies Eamonnca1, An oversight on my behalf (though there some other unanswered question you should address your attention to - in the interests of fairness).

No - Ireland was never rules as a single entity.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Presumably if there was a vote in France and Spain on Catalan independence and a majority of Catalan's voted for indepence but that majority was not carried in wither Spain, France or both you would deny the democratic voice of the Catalans?

WUM, feck off.

[Rossfan]

. A majority of people in the 6 counties wanted to stay in UK. They stayed. The will of majority obviously impacted on the minority. Thats democracy gerrymandering .

A majority of people in Fermanagh and Tyrone wanted to be part of a free Ireland.
A majority of the people of the "Ireland" part of the then "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" voted for independence in 1918.
Neither of those majorities of exoisting official units got their way.
I suppose when a majority of the 6 Cos voters vote to join the rest of Ireland ye'll dream up another " area" where a majority won't want to leave the UK and look for another re Partition.
Tough - the Good Friday agreement has prevented that oul trick..