Margaret Thatcher....

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

No I'm not an admirer of Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao or even De Valera but I do admire Thatcher. I think she was dead right to stand up to the unions and the IRA, when it would have been easier for her to cave. The tail wags the dog too often nowadays, and Maggie wasn't having it. If it makes me a troll to have a different opinion to most of the others on here then so be it.

Vichy Paddy, par excellence.

[stew]

No I'm not an admirer of Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao or even De Valera but I do admire Thatcher. I think she was dead right to stand up to the unions and the IRA, when it would have been easier for her to cave. The tail wags the dog too often nowadays, and Maggie wasn't having it. If it makes me a troll to have a different opinion to most of the others on here then so be it.

You are some craic, you admire Thatcher! she destroyed the industrial economy of her country, she has the blood of hundreds of Irishmen, women and Children on her hands, she was a huge supporter of Apartheid, She was an ally to Pol Pot, she failed to keep the word of her Government in relation to the ten men that died on hunger strike (more blood) She lied about murdering the sailors on the Belgrano as well as destroying the NHS and she made life awful tough on the miners and their families because she cared not one shite about anyone who was not an ally.

Asal, I hope you are in Liverpool in a bar some day and happen to mention your gra for the cnut, what she did to the people of that City, the lies she told and the misery she caused is legend, if she is worthy of your admiration you are a sick, sad individual with sand for brains.

[seafoid]

Private eye had a funny cover at the time Adams and Danny.Morrison were not allowed to travel to the 82 GLC conference. Picture of Thatcher with 2 colleagues.

She says "we can't let people like that into the uk"
Colleague 1 "I thought they were in it already"
Colleague 2 "It's no good arguing with her, Willy"

[LCohen]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thather has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

[seafoid]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thather has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

[LCohen]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thatcher has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Helpfully you dont deny that the IRA has more Irish blood on their hands than Thatcher but are you arguing that she compelled them to continue murdering Irish people?

[Saffrongael]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thather has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Pretty idiotic post there Seafoid.

[deiseach]

Thatcher had balls. I agree with some of her stances and policies but more han that, I admire her for being able to make a brave decision and having the conviction to see it through. In a world of cowardly, vote - buying politicians that was a rare quality. The unions, the IRA, the Argentinians - she stood up to them all. If she's hated in Ireland for standing up to convicted murderers then fair play to her. Ireland needs some brave leaders to turn the country around so our young people will no longer have to choose between emigration and rotting on the dole.

Thatcher's policies turned large swathes of Britain into reservations for the lumpen proletariat while tying the fiscal well-being of the rest of the country to the fortunes of a casino. Her intransigence gave the IRA an open goal for winning hearts and minds among the Nationalist population of the North. What good is strong leadership if the policies are terrible?

[Nally Stand]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thatcher has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Helpfully you dont deny that the IRA has more Irish blood on their hands than Thatcher but are you arguing that she compelled them to continue murdering Irish people?

Were the Old IRA just murderers too?

[Nally Stand]

I think she was dead right to stand up to the..IRA

Were former british leaders right to stand up to the Old IRA too?

[LCohen]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thatcher has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Helpfully you dont deny that the IRA has more Irish blood on their hands than Thatcher but are you arguing that she compelled them to continue murdering Irish people?

Were the Old IRA just murderers too?

In the war of independence ther were no doubt individual acts of terrorism and criminal murder. There was also a absence of access to any democratic system and any hope that access would be granted.

In the period post partition it was always clear that democracy did not demand a united ireland. Post 1969 it was clear that individual acts if terrorism/murder could not single handedly bring about or alternative edge us towards an united ireland. It was therefore not possible to claim those political ends as justification for acts of murder, rendering them precisely that, acts of murder and their perpetrators murderers

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

In the period post partition it was always clear that democracy did not demand a united ireland. Post 1969 it was clear that individual acts if terrorism/murder could not single handedly bring about or alternative edge us towards an united ireland. It was therefore not possible to claim those political ends as justification for acts of murder, rendering them precisely that, acts of murder and their perpetrators murderers

Such nonsense.

So the non-democratic denial of democracy (as Irish partition was) suddenly endows legitimacy on a contrived and totally false political entity (or entities)?

[seafoid]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thather has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Pretty idiotic post there Seafoid.

Do you think if Kinnock had been in power in the mid 80s that Northern Ireland would have had the same experience for the rest of the decade? 
This "law and order/ you have no grievance/ we have a monopoly on violence" does not solve problems, IMO. It just defers a solution.
Northern Ireland is still "special" but at least the Brits are running a reasonably sane policy now.   Thatcher was a conviction politician but some of her convictions were nuts. Complicated regions like NI have very nuanced identity issues and telling everyone on one side of the house to STFU is not very rational. 
All that Protestant ideology about NI being fully British didn't stand up to the cold light of day anyway. Even the Tories more or less gave up on it in the end.   

[lynchbhoy]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thatcher has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Helpfully you dont deny that the IRA has more Irish blood on their hands than Thatcher but are you arguing that she compelled them to continue murdering Irish people?

Were the Old IRA just murderers too?

In the war of independence ther were no doubt individual acts of terrorism and criminal murder. There was also a absence of access to any democratic system and any hope that access would be granted.

In the period post partition it was always clear that democracy did not demand a united ireland. Post 1969 it was clear that individual acts if terrorism/murder could not single handedly bring about or alternative edge us towards an united ireland. It was therefore not possible to claim those political ends as justification for acts of murder, rendering them precisely that, acts of murder and their perpetrators murderers

Yer re-writing history there to suit your argument !

The IRA etc were fighting to protect the Irish nationalist /catholic/working class- or second class people from the persecution , oppression and though many don't like the reality of this comparison- the systematic state sponsored north of Ireland version of apartheid enforced on these people.
It was believed that in a reunified Ireland , this abhoration against human rights wouldn't happen , so a reunited Ireland became a parallel objective.
There was murder of nationalist Irish Catholics by the state and unionist loyalist forces long before 1969 but the b specials was the step too far and showed the way the unionist loyalists wanted to go.

People were being killed and families lives destroyed for decades before the IRA lead retaliation.
Thatcher was worse than prev British gov leaders - a liar also as under her orders, negotiations were going on with the IRA though she refuted this at all times. The hunger strikers got the 5 demands they wanted but only after the passing of a few months so this forked tongued oul hoor coul try to keep it quiet and save face.
Indeed kinnock would have undoubtedly diffused things a ulot more quickly.

This myth that thatcher contributed and indeed inspired the fledgling gfa is preposterous !
She was dragged reluctantly into the ineffectual hillsborough agreement and even her successor John major was effectively coerced into the peace process talks and eventual gfa signing.
John Hume the only man to drive this. Everyone else was a bit part player loading with their own faction - Irish & eng gov, republicans, unionist & loyalist paramilitaries.
As a good man said, he'll is full now with thatcher arriving!

Proving the point, once equality has been implemented and the persecution/ threat to nationalists Catholics and Irish people in the north has stopped, the IRA have stopped and the reunification is being worked on by democratic means.
That's the reality.

[Nally Stand]

No person with the intelligence to cut up their own dinner could argue that Thatcher has more irish blood on her hands than say the IRA.

Thatcher kept it going long past its sell by date. Sunningdale for slow learners. It only finished when she left. I agree with Nally Stand on this one .

Helpfully you dont deny that the IRA has more Irish blood on their hands than Thatcher but are you arguing that she compelled them to continue murdering Irish people?

Were the Old IRA just murderers too?

In the war of independence ther were no doubt individual acts of terrorism and criminal murder. There was also a absence of access to any democratic system and any hope that access would be granted.

In the period post partition it was alwayacy did not demand a united ireland. Post 1969 it was clear that individual acts if terrorism/murder could not single handedly bring about or alternative edge us towards an united ireland. It was therefore not possible to claim those political ends as justification for acts of murder, rendering them precisely that, acts of murder and their perpetrators murderers

Oh dear Lord. I'm not sure which is more astonishing; the level of hypocracy or the  "explanation" behind it. So tell me genius, bearing in mind the conditions which catholics in this newly created sectarian state lived in were a hell of a lot worse than those in the south leading up to the tan war, how do you suggest it could have resolved itself? And also tell me this, genius; bearing in mind that the first british soldier killed (Hugh McCabe in 1969) was killed by the RUC, and that the first RUC officer to be killed (Constable William Arbuckle) was killed by loyalists, and that the first sectarian killings (of John Scullion and Peter Ward) were carried out by the UVF; and that the first bombings (in 1969) were carried out by loyalists and that the first of almost a thousand state killings (of Sammy Devenney, in front of his family; and of nine-year-old Patrick Rooney) were carried out by the RUC...and bearing in mind that the biggest population shift in Europe since the Second World War was of Catholics fleeing across the border for safety in the wake of the sectarian pogroms, why the fcuk do you think the IRA came to be?!!