Gay Marriage in Scotland

[Applesisapples]

The Church of which I am a member has lost it's moral authority, but I want to change it from within.

And how exactly does that work?

By bitching on the GAA board.... solves everything........   

Seems to work for you!

[mylestheslasher]

Isn't the only mention if men lying with men in the book of Leviticus, a book of the old testament that any sane person could only laugh at given the amount if crazy stuff in it. So why do some religions fixate on one part of this book only. Why not the bits about only growing one crop in your field or the bit where you should be stoned to death for braking these laws. Who decided what should be adhered to and why must a believer just accept this without question.

In fairness Gazzler the reply was indirectly to those that say that people who don't follow every rule of the catholic church are not true catholic. I was just pointing out the insane places that "some" of those rules come from, such as the one against homosexuals.

It's the old "the devil can quote scripture" syndrome. They cherry-pick the scriptures to make them fit whatever they like.  If a christian is homophobic then he's going to be able to quote the miniscule bit of text that could be interpreted as opposing homosexuality. If he's more enlightened and more tolerant then he's going to be able to interpret the Bible to discard the anti-gay bit.

The laughable thing is that they claim to get their morality from the Bible.  The reality is they get their interpretation of the Bible from the same instinctive morality that we all have.

The majority of Christians and those who has some faith and beliefs don't go around preaching the bible or using quotes from it to back up their opinions.
You could be a Christian but just hate the idea of two men or women having sexual intercourse it probably has nothing to do with what it says in the bible or scriptures.And it works the other way too.
You can't just generalise like that.
Someone else already said on this thread that you can have faith and beliefs without being religious or being part of a religious organisation and I agree with that.
You make it sound like anyone who has faith is going around quoting scriptures all day long.

[The Iceman]

Isn't the only mention if men lying with men in the book of Leviticus, a book of the old testament that any sane person could only laugh at given the amount if crazy stuff in it. So why do some religions fixate on one part of this book only. Why not the bits about only growing one crop in your field or the bit where you should be stoned to death for braking these laws. Who decided what should be adhered to and why must a believer just accept this without question.

There are 3-4 quotes in the NT on the matter but also you have to consider the Church and Tradition. If you want to be purely Biblical and only follow the Bible to the letter then the Protestant Church is the one for you. The Catholic Church relies on the Bible and the teachings and Traditions of the Church passed down for the past 2000 years or so. Anyways:
Romans1: 26-27
For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality

1 Timothy 1:9-10
and witting this thing, that the law is not set to a just man, but to unjust men and not subject, to wicked men and to sinners, to cursed men and defouled, to slayers of father, and slayers of mother, to manslayers [witting this thing, that the law is not put to a just man, but to an unjust and not subject, to unpious men and sinners, to cursed men and defouled, to slayers of fathers, and slayers of mothers, to menslayers] and lechers, to them that do lechery with men, lying-mongers and forsworn, and if any other thing is contrary to the wholesome teaching

Yes you can do all the research you want and find different translations of words or interpretations of words but the Catholic Church's teaching on the matter is based on these quotes and the traditions of the Church passed down over the centuries.

Regardless of what is practiced by rogue priests and pedophiles this is about teaching. Everything you need to know about the Church and their stance is in the Catechism.

[nifan]

The church has changed on other traditions, why can it not change on this?

When the traditions have changed where has it come from - is it the pope directly, or is there some sort of commttee? Really I mean how is the "tradition" element maintained?

[EC Unique]

It would be interesting if there was ever a referendum on the matter amongst practicing Catholics. By practicing I mean people who go to mass on a Sunday and base there lives on Catholic teachings but don't have to be as stringent as iceman is. A 5/8th Catholic.

Would you be in favour of gay marriage ceremonies taking place in Catholic Churches?

Yes or No?

I'm pretty sure it would be a very large no!

[johnneycool]

The church has changed on other traditions, why can it not change on this?

When the traditions have changed where has it come from - is it the pope directly, or is there some sort of commttee? Really I mean how is the "tradition" element maintained?

There's been a few modernisation programs within the holy catholic church such as the council of trent and the likes, so its not uncommon for traditions to change.

Are these epistles not more so the thoughts and feelings of St Paul and the likes rather than the word of god?

[The Iceman]

All the letters are agreed upon by all the Christian Churches as not just the instructions of Paul or Peter to the early Church but part of God's word, guided by the Holy Spirit and just as relevant today as they were 2000 years ago (in context).
Yes there have been changes over the centuries and they come as was pointed out through councils and meetings over decades. these too, as Tradition teaches us, are guided by the Holy Spirit and therefore accepted by the entire Church.

All the answers you need are in the Catechism. Read it in context, read it with a bible beside it and look up references in their context too. Speak with a spiritual adviser, clergy member or friend who takes their faith seriously and work through whatever questions you have. You're not going to find honest answers unless you ask honest questions.

If your only goal in all of this is to wind people up, dangle bait and poke at people for having faith then fair enough. Go and try it with Mickey Harte Eamonn and see what kind of response you get from people......

[Puckoon]

Does Jesus trump Catholicism, the Catechism?

Do you think Jesus would approve of the Catholic church today?

Wonder what he'd have to say about gayness in Scotland. He was a progressive thinker ahead of his time, but his church (if indeed the catholic one is his church) seems unable to think as smartly or with as much love and compassion as he was able to ( especially for those deemed outside of the rules). It's almost like the years have turned it into man made power base, so far removed from the visions of JC.

T'is a pity he can't get a handle for the Gaaboard, I'd really love to know what he'd have to say to some of the religious folks about their opinions on his matter.

[The Iceman]

Does Jesus trump Catholicism, the Catechism?

Do you think Jesus would approve of the Catholic church today?

Wonder what he'd have to say about gayness in Scotland. He was a progressive thinker ahead of his time, but his church (if indeed the catholic one is his church) seems unable to think as smartly or with as much love and compassion as he was able to ( especially for those deemed outside of the rules). It's almost like the years have turned it into man made power base, so far removed from the visions of JC.

T'is a pity he can't get a handle for the Gaaboard, I'd really love to know what he'd have to say to some of the religious folks about their opinions on his matter.

Puck in fairness how can you on the one hand say that you'd like to know what he would have to say, and on the other hand know what he would have to say?
The mystery of the trinity - God head 3 in 1. Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with us, guiding the church therefore so is Jesus.

I am not telling or at least I'm not trying to tell people what to do say or think - I'm just saying don't label whatever you are doing as Catholic if it isn't.
If you want to go off and have your own interpretation of what Jesus said good luck to you.

[Gazzler]

I thought Jesus was Jewish?

[Captain Obvious]

I thought Jesus was Jewish?

And don't mention the Pope's Hitler youth past

[Gazzler]

I thought Jesus was Jewish?

And don't mention the Pope's Hitler youth past

I didn't, you did.

[nifan]

The mystery of the trinity - God head 3 in 1. Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with us, guiding the church therefore so is Jesus.

At various points through history the church has had some pretty ropey policies which have since, by and large been changed. Was the holy spirit at play during these periods?
Is it possible that the holy spirit could guide the church to be accepting of gay people?

[Eamonnca1]

At various points through history the church has had some pretty ropey policies which have since, by and large been changed. Was the holy spirit at play during these periods?

Economics was at play. They were short of cash and fancied building a big chapel in Rome, so they invented purgatory and started accepting payments from people who wanted to keep out of the place. It was the medieval equivalent of the Nigerian internet scam. To this day people are still falling for the purgatory idea even though it was a blatant fabrication that has long outlived its original purpose.

[Hardy]

Was the Holy Spirit guiding this sort of carry-on? What was Jesus's take on it?