Messages

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-father-and-son-terrorists-admit-to-murder-and-rape-of-israeli-women-on-oct-7

Lovely individuals-very "heroic"

In his own words

"He shamelessly described raping a crying woman at gunpoint and leaving her without knowing her fate. Abdallah's confession revealed a more harrowing truth: his father killed the woman after multiple rapes by the terrorists, including himself and his cousin"

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

Hamas are using their own civilians as human shields

They are as just much to blame for civilian deaths as the Israelis

So it's nothing to do with the big fúcking bombs the IDF are dropping on built up areas and even refugee camps?

Are Hamas also to blame for the Palestinians being killed on the West Bank?

Sweet Jesus!

So if the Hamas operatives who perpetrated the atrocities on 10/07 are hiding out in a refugee camp are they not responsible for the inevitable bombardment that's sure to follow?

I've not seen anyone giving blind support to Hamas, but in keeping with your bad faith comments.

Would you call children that are killed in war as non combatants

of course, why would anyone consider them combatants...

I haven't seen that term used for the deaths in Gaza, its generally women and children killed that has been used

true, in gaza if you are male and non combatant you don't really count. In Israel there is conscription and more Female IDF so speaking in women and children isn't as clear.

So just use it for Israeli deaths as they have conscription? If you are an unarmed woman or child from any side you are still a woman or child.

I'm an ends doesn't justify the means type person, one loss of life is one too many. So many senseless deaths here over the years hasn't really got us any further, the shift in population will, and won't cause any deaths

I've no idea how they can solve the Gaza situation as Israel won't be going anywhere and the Palestinians will rebuild and have another generation of people that have been tortured/killed and locked up, mad cycle.

Unless there is a moderate government in Israel then this won't even be fixed in our lifetime

Milltown I know you are a let the palestinans continue to suffer under their occupation until the occupier decides otherwise guy. the west donw nothing for 75 years only arm and watch on as Israel every few years 'mows the lawn'... I support international  Law ans it allows resistence and that threshold for armed resistence is clearly been met for Palestinans to rise up against their oppressor and occupier and I fully support that. ( within international law)

if you are a non combatant you are a civilian etc. which would include men, women and children. As stated if you provide women and children for the Israeli dead many will be combantants, the Israeli dead is usually provided as a total including both, Palestinians are usually provided as women and children and a total number.

I think in terms of using sticks and stones in comparison to what Israel has to use against Palestine then you can uprise to the cows come home there will be only one outcome.

Nothing will be resolved unless they sit around a table, create the conditions for that and that's the best outcome 75 years will be 150 years and so on if they do not sit and discuss

I know you are they type of guy that sits at home on a computer type of guy and wave a flag maybe not use Israeli products but that won't stop non combatants from being obliterated 

I am that guy and more and understand how little impact it has but at least I fully support all legal efforts for palestinains while you sit at home on your computer happy for them to die slowing, and stupidly not know that palestinans have numerous times sat at those tables and been offered nothing and somehow speak to me as if you have some moral superiority...

Hamas are using their own civilians as human shields

They are as just much to blame for civilian deaths as the Israelis

The whole thing doesn't make any sense

Netanyahu was about to get booted out of office and a less hardline Israeli PM was the likely successor

World opinion in general was very sympathetic toward the Palestinians

Relations were being normalized between Israeli and other Muslim countries

Now all of that "progress" has gone up in flames

I asked this yesterday and I'll ask it again- What exactly we're Hamas hoping to accomplish by their actions on 10/07?

Not alone has their country been destroyed and tens of thousands of their civilians killed, but they may very well get Trump elected ....you know Trump, the guy who tried to ban Muslims from entering the US

so you didn't answer my question.

What question

The whole thing doesn't make any sense

Netanyahu was about to get booted out of office and a less hardline Israeli PM was the likely successor

World opinion in general was very sympathetic toward the Palestinians

Relations were being normalized between Israeli and other Muslim countries

Now all of that "progress" has gone up in flames

I asked this yesterday and I'll ask it again- What exactly we're Hamas hoping to accomplish by their actions on 10/07?

Not alone has their country been destroyed and tens of thousands of their civilians killed, but they may very well get Trump elected ....you know Trump, the guy who tried to ban Muslims from entering the US

All I see here are lots of lads with their eyes wide shut. You can't even entertain the possibility that Hamas fighters may have raped some women. The same fighters that were gunning down unarmed civilian. Do you deny that also? 

No one is doubting that Israel is a liar and has made up completely spurious stories regarding what happened. They can't help themselves. No one is denying that they are a shower of murdering genocidal criminals. They are cited in the ICC report for it.

But both the UN and ICC say they have grounds to believe sexual violence took place. I'll withhold judgement myself thanks. None of us have seen the evidence and neither have any of your favourite online news blogs.

where have I or anyone not entertained it? I have been consistent and twice in the last 3 posts have said sexual assaults happen in all conflicts... Amit Soussana is the only potential creditable report. the AP (maybe they might meet your standard of reporting) yesterday have a laughable debunking of two Zaka fake claims which were are are widely reported.

again yesterday widely shared on social media was the a video of idf soldiers being captured with fake translation associated with it, already debunked.

you stay ignoring rape by Israelis, torture, genocide, ethic cleansing and keep to to the zionist talking points.

I've said Israel are criminals and committing genocide.

I note also the UN report cited Israeli soldiers for sexual violence and threats at checkpoints. You accept those UN findings, right?

you have 50 posts, under this name (you might be a regeneration of a previously banned poster) and on this topic your focus is zionist talking points.

I dont need UN findings, there is testimonials by former soldiers and current solider admitting it, there is media reporting. The IDF have raped around the world and even their own within the IDF..

What Zionist talking points do you mean exactly?

I didn't intend to get into this argument, I merely brought up that rape was a part of the ICC citation against Hamas members when someone else described the whole thing as debunked.

It's not much of a discussion board if you aren't allowed to have a discussion about certain topics.

1. you have ignore most if not all my questions
2. you have focus on the rape claims,

almost all Israeli claims have been debunked and these claims were printed in the NY times, across MSM and widely accepted before being debunked.

if you read beyond the headlines of the ICC and UN reports the language used and claims appear to be directly from the same debunked Israeli sources.. I have quoted the UN report numerous times now... the Israeli do not allow independent assessments either and no one into Gaza.

So you don't believe the UN Report?

"following allegations of brutal sexual violence committed during and in the aftermath of the Hamas-led terror attacks, Pramila Patten, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict, led an official visit to Israel from 29 January to 14 February to gather, analyse and verify reports of sexual violence related to the 7 October attack"

"It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors," including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity"

So you don't believe the Israelis

You don't believe the UN

The only ones you believe are Hamas

Interesting

What I see is a massive number of claims made by Israel politicians and their media parrots to completely dehumanise an entire population being used a some sort of excuse for them subsequently flattening Gaza. The systematic rape (including anal), 40 beheaded babies, babies in ovens, and the cutting babies out of wombs claims... ALL DEBUNKED... are still being spouted.

No one that I can see is claiming that there may have been isolated instances of rape. How did you miss that?

Speaking as someone whose great grandfather spent time in Frongoch after the 1916 rising, I am highly offended that people on here seem to think there's some moral equivalence between the events of October 7th and the 1916 Rising

Hamas are animals that should be wiped off the face of the planet

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

"It was a catalogue of the most extreme and inhumane forms of killing, torture and other horrors," including sexual violence, she stated.  The team also found convincing information that sexual violence was committed against hostages, and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those in captivity"

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

I'm sure people are going to go ballistic (no pun intended) when I ask this question, but what exactly did Hamas hope to accomplish by the attacks on October 7th?

Was it a revenge attack for decades of oppression on the Palestinians?

Was it an attempt to start a war?

Was it an attempt to derail the normalization of relations between Israel and other Muslim Countries?

Netanyahu was like Tyson Fury on Saturday night and would likely have been removed from office. Why did they give him this lifeline ?

On a scale of 1-10 how did they think Israel would respond ? (1 being do nothing, 10 being dropping a nuke)

All of the above.

If you're living from one aid drop to the next, being picked off and slaughtered day and daily by the IDF in both the Gaza strip and even still in the West Bank you've nothing to lose.

Did it play into Netanyahu and his ultra right wing partners in government hands? To an extent but it may well suit the Palestinians in the longer term with how Netanyahu has went on a genocidal rampage in the Gaza strip.

Those who have turned a blind eye to the atrocities carried out by the IDF for decades can no longer sit by and watch and now I think we're seeing the start of something better for Palestine as there's no way Netanyahu and the Israelis can be seen to have benefited from this genocide.
The Us can no longer be seen to be neutral in this conversation as it never was.

Couldnt all Whiteys questions be similarly asked of Irish rebellions. We were a small, poorly armed peasantry resisting the biggest empire in the world. Could we not ask why did our crazy ancestors rebel in 1641, 1798, Robert Emmett, 1916, Tan War, Troubles. Sure didnt we know what would come to us?

Which makes it all the more galling to see anyone with an inkling of Irishness in them supporting Israel in any form.

We've all been told for decades who the terrorists were whilst those who called us such we covered in the blood of innocent Irish people.

So we're Hamas justified in their actions on October 7th?

There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of this gang rape/mass rape thing. Its also pretty much accepted that Israel shot up a large amount of their own people. If they gave a damn about hostages they would gave negotiated their release, instead they carpet bombed civilian areas. You need to think of Israel as Nazis to understand the evil you are dealing with here.

I have no doubt that Israel wilfully murder and starve Palestinians - it's clear from their actions.

Though hasn't the ICC also accepted that Hamas fighters used sexual violence? I'd imagine they must have seen evidence before stating such.

Well there is that one clip of the girl getting dragged out of the Jeep by the hair-can't imagine what horrors she suffered

I'm sure people are going to go ballistic (no pun intended) when I ask this question, but what exactly did Hamas hope to accomplish by the attacks on October 7th?

Was it a revenge attack for decades of oppression on the Palestinians?

Was it an attempt to start a war?

Was it an attempt to derail the normalization of relations between Israel and other Muslim Countries?

Netanyahu was like Tyson Fury on Saturday night and would likely have been removed from office. Why did they give him this lifeline ?

On a scale of 1-10 how did they think Israel would respond ? (1 being do nothing, 10 being dropping a nuke)

There are thousands of Palestinians detained by the IDF. I believe the intention was to take hostages so as to negotiate prisoner swaps.
Personally feel like this was a setup and Israel wanted an atrocity to react to so they could flatten Gaza and claim it for themselves.

You think that Israel was somehow behind Oct 7th?

I read a book written by the son of the founder of Hamas who got flipped by Israeli intelligence. I find it very hard to believe that the Israelis had no inkling this was about to happen. Hamas is riddled with informers

I also read (but can't remember where) that Hamas just happened upon the music festival. That element of the attack wasn't part of the original plan....it's just happened

I was always under the impression that thousands of heavily armed IDF would arrive within minutes of a large border incursion like what happened on 10/07. Perhaps Hamas thought that they would "invade" and then retreat back accross the border with a few dozen hostages, but when the cavalry didn't show up things just spiraled out of control

I mean....kidnapping grannies and gang raping/murdering teenage girls doesn't exactly do their cause much good

I'm sure people are going to go ballistic (no pun intended) when I ask this question, but what exactly did Hamas hope to accomplish by the attacks on October 7th?

Was it a revenge attack for decades of oppression on the Palestinians?

Was it an attempt to start a war?

Was it an attempt to derail the normalization of relations between Israel and other Muslim Countries?

Netanyahu was like Tyson Fury on Saturday night and would likely have been removed from office. Why did they give him this lifeline ?

On a scale of 1-10 how did they think Israel would respond ? (1 being do nothing, 10 being dropping a nuke)

How do you square the fact that since old Genocide Joe came into Power the world has seen two new major conflicts in which he is stuck in the middle of?

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a total piece of shit and not fit to hold any office. I just think Biden is also a piece of shit and I take great offence that he tries to draw a link to Ireland as if he is some part of us.

Biden (or the US for that matter) had no hand act or part in starting either of those wars.

Once they started he had to take a side

Why does he have to take a side? What about the side of justice?
Arm a country committing genocide?
By the way it started long before last October.. but you know that.

He had long-standing strategic alliances that needed to be upheld

How do you square the fact that since old Genocide Joe came into Power the world has seen two new major conflicts in which he is stuck in the middle of?

Don't get me wrong, I think Trump is a total piece of shit and not fit to hold any office. I just think Biden is also a piece of shit and I take great offence that he tries to draw a link to Ireland as if he is some part of us.

Biden (or the US for that matter) had no hand act or part in starting either of those wars.

Once they started he had to take a side

It's degree lads. The Republicans want to give carte blanche to Israel. They're going mad at Biden for even pausing the shipments of 2000 lb bombs, with the House officially "rebuking" him recently. They're on tv arguing that the Gazan civilians are fair game because they elected and support Hamas. You think it's bad for the Palestinians now? Just wait till Trump wins and the GOP take back the Senate this autumn.

I know of Republicans who wouldn't care if every single resident of Gaza was killed

Their logic is that the Palestinians voted in Hamas, so they now need to live with the consequences

You don't think their are democrats that think that too?

No I don't

If there are, that would be a very peripheral group....whereas for republicans it's the default position