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Good thread here Dinny Breen - For a Down supporter it's been a great year - I had two January bets that Down would be playing in August, honestly didn't think at the start of the year that they'd be there in September too! - An observation and a question to you lads - Down changed football in the 60's with their midfield strategy of not going for the clean catch and kick at midfield, but rather the palmed ball down to the second midfielder - Kerry changed it in the 80's with the hand-pass (Despite Pat Spillane's dislike for it) - Tyrone and Armagh changed it again in the 00's with the blanket defense - Do you think we're seeing another change in Gaelic Football with how Down let Marty Clarke roam as much as he does - I know he's not the first to do it, but do you think it might be a trend with other teams? - Comments welcome

Completely agree with the point re how Down play but to play that game requires a particular talent - such as Down have in Clarke - to play that roving playmaker role, and there aren't too many like him around.

As to the question about the championship as a whole, I think that it has been a very enjoyable one and, given that the stupid experimental rules were binned, officially and unofficially, along the way, proves that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the game and thus there is no real reason To go messing around with it as the offeecials seem determined to do.

Silly thread considering the thousands of people that moved from Mayo to elsewhere in Ireland.

Should we include Bolton from Kildare. His father played senior club football for Aughamore.

Father Mother from Mayo, Born in Castlebar general Hospitable moved to Galway as an 8 year old. Dont see what the big problem is. The reason he is a top class player is because of the DNA passed down from his father.

Feck sake, you want Ronan O'Gara to come and play for us too do ya? The Brogans got Mayo backgrounds too while your at it. Eamonn O'Hara another for the hitlist.

The Brogans were tempted when they were youngs one when they visited the Sunflower in Castlebar. Eamon O'Hara by rights should of played for Mayo.

given that his father before him played with distinction for Sligo, can't see how you can claim O'Hara

Got out the wrong side o' th'oul bed today Iolar ?

I don't know Rossfan, I don't know. FOT bugs me at the best of times, but that piece really got up my nose. I'll be interested to see if I'm alone or if anyone agrees with me.

Firstly for the avoidance of doubt, I think MO'M is a one off, a genius of his craft and worthy of celebration but I for two don't need FO'T to tell me that so I am totally with you there Iolar.

It sickens me to the core that the anointed theatre critic of the Irish Times is wantonly allowed spew gibberish on any given subject pretty much as he wishes and even more sickening that the national broadcaster at my expense repeatedly componds the sin by affording him free passage of the airwaves to repeat his biases on topics about which he knows little or nothing.

This thread though put me in mind though of something that I read recently about folk that make a career about talking about things that they know nothing about so I hit the search engines and found an article online - http://is.gd/eBFU3 - that sets it all out.  To save folk reading it all  it lists a five point template as follows

• Settle on a Topic
  
• When in doubt, equivocate
  
• Take a Contrary Position
  
• Generalize
  
• Triple the Length of Your Article by telling them what you're gonna tell them, telling them again and then telling them what you just told them.

Seems about par for the course for the expert that, from the in-depth and varied experience of his attic in Ballsbridge, knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Personally I prefer the values of those that say nothing until they know something

[if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis]

And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.

I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.

"if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis" - either they are not as good as they were reputed to be or the didn't have the discipline, focus and mental strenght to get back to work after their provincial success. For that we should give them a second chance?  In other words win a championship, don't bother too much about the next game because you know you will have a second chance and can regroup later - sorry that type of bread buttered on both sides approach doesn't wash

Every team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.

Every team bar the provincial winner has to this point in the year nothing to show for their efforts, and only in this pretty unusual year are we assured that one other will.  It's pretty simple - success or second chance - you can't, and shouldn't, have both.

...the team with the best players won in the end although they'd sicken your ar*e looking at their rugby league type of sideways and backways walking pace style. However when they started putting ball in after O'Neill came on the frailties in the Dublin defence came into play

I've seen this point made a few times but while Cork might have a tendancy to do it in any company, the reason they spent so much time doing that yesterday was because Dublin forced them to, as they had done Tyrone before.  The reason Cork were into double figures in wides by early in the second half yesterday was because Dublin forced them to shoot from where they didn't want to and under pressure, as they had done to Tyrone before and the reason Cork eventually got past Dublin yesterday was precisely because of that over and back passing because when the chips were down they were good enough and smart enough to keep possession knowing that the chance or, increasingly as the game progressed, the the foul would come

Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.

No one's asking for pity Paddy, just parity.

And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.

At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system  .

Meath did get a second chance.  They were beaten by Louth and Kildare.

Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.

[On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.]

The fact that Cork squeaked by the team that was 4th of the four, by a distance, doesn't change that, although they are now 2/5 for the AI with all the major bookies (PP, Ladbrokes, Boyle and Betpack) which is total nuts. On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.

Unlikely I'd say. They'll ease out a shade after next Sunday. Whoever wins next Sunday will be around the 13/8 mark - maybe 7/4 max.

Most bookies probably have significant antepost liabilities on Cork since the League but I imagine there'll be plenty willing to lay them as the Final approaches on the evidence of today.

That would make more sense but still won't reflect the reality of capability

A number of things have struck me about today and I'll try and go through them.

1. Dublin are a one man team, everything is built around BB and bar Alan the Dublin team is a crowd of muscle bound athletes with limited football ability. Fair play to Gilroy who realised this and came up with a fantastic gameplan that maximised his resources! If he was Cork manager they would have won the game at an absolute canter.

2. Cork are surviving through hunger and having decent footballers, their tactical naieveté will be found out by either Kildare or Down unless they come up with a decent system of play for the final.

3. The way Down are being dismissed on this thread is staggering!! They played excellent football to get to this stage and are playing a team that got beat by Louth and were lucky to escape with a draw against Antrim. This is not to say Kildare are a bad team but they haven't been up against a serious side yet and I think the Down game will be very close!

While I don't agree with the assessment of Kildare, I agree with the other three points. Down at 9/2 for the AI is a good bet. IMO, the two best teams left after the quarters are playing next week. 

The fact that Cork squeaked by the team that was 4th of the four, by a distance, doesn't change that, although they are now 2/5 for the AI with all the major bookies (PP, Ladbrokes, Boyle and Betpack) which is total nuts. On that basis the winners next week will be 2/1 or 5/2 which is decent odds in such a two horse race and should make the handicap betting really good value.

Guys - take a chill pill.  It's not journalism - it's opinion for which one needs no qualifications other than sufficient active nuerons between the ears to form and then express the thought. 

You don't even need to be able to write as most celebrity columnists make their contributions by taking a phone call from a hack who then transcribes what they say into an article, althoiugh I imagine Hayes produces his own copy. A lot of opinion pieces are completely off piste - for example the same Tribune has a failed and NAMA dependant property developer writing opinion pieces that go against any currently accepted wisdom.

We should all read Hayes for reassurance of our sanity because the day he pens something we agree with is the day to start getting worried

[McConnell 'drove through' his man]

That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.

I know I'm in a small minority on this one but does no-one think the defender was pulled over?

There was definitely an 'element' of that; a consummate draw for the foul.

There was and that is clear in the last of the three photos in the sequence. I didn't see the play back on TV but from the angle I had O' Connell drove forward into O'Neill with his upper body, had both hands free and around the attacker - think you can see that in the first photo of the sequence and had already taken his feet off the ground with the impact of the  'body hug' (again that is clear in the photo). The entrapment of the arm comes on the way down - 'just to be sure like'.

From that discussion though and it was referreed elsewhere, the Cork team is right up there as being one of the most cynical around at the minute. They were falling and feigning against Roscommon, again today and against Kerry. Mind you they got plenty of legitimate contact today as well and while there were a few soft frees either way, they evened out.  Thought the referee was barely with the game but wasn't a winning or losing factor for either side IMO.

Thoughts from the match:


1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.

2. Cork were there for the taking.

3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.

4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls

5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team

6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis

7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.

7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.

8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.

That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.

As to the Dublin changes, Bud should be declaring his Boden membership in making the case for Keaney. O'Gara is no butterfly and was not as good today as in each of the last two days but he did endless ploughing for Brogan - the type of selfless dirty work that Keaney would never do. When Keaney did come in he made bad decisions on the ball and did nothing to take the pressure off Brogan.

Dublin played this game at a very high pace and in the last ten minutes that caught up with them. McConnell's indiscretions were a result of a tired mind as much as anything else.

My reaction on the final whistle was that the best team lost but then factor in all the possession Cork had, the wides, the number of frees that Dublin conceded and that Cork came from 5 points down within the last 20/25 minutes and it is hard not to say that Cork deserved it.

In terms of the All Ireland, I think there is an awful amount of ramaish being written here about how either Cork or Dublin would / will win the final. For my money, literally, going into the semi finals these two teams were 3rd and 4th best of those left in the championship in terms of performances this year to date and that has to be the reference point for assessing their prospects. Granted Cork have experience and a great squad and having emerged from this test will likely be favourites but barely deserved.   

I don't entirely know the answer to the question raised by Shrewdness as I'm resident in Dublin but my guess is that no one will be going mad in Sligo but that it will be well celebrated and appreciated within the GAA community itself and respectfully acknowledged beyond but without capturing the public imagination.

I think it is an important building block and agree with the comment made by Seanie comparing it to NFL games. I recently started a blog and I've copied in below a post I made there earlier.

The only other thought would be to endorse the comments made re Egan who would be a proper addition and a guy with the mental toughness required at a higher level of football as well as serious physical power and football ability.

"Junior football would never have been overly prominent on my football agenda as a youngster in Sligo but for all that there is great sense of pride in hearing that Sligo tonight are All Ireland champions in the junior grade.

For many it will not make up for the disappointment of how the senior team fell away but when you add this victory to the victory by the U-16 team in the Fr Manning Cup, the fact that the U21s and U16s got to their respective Connacht finals and that both Attracta's and Summerhill had good seasons in Colleges, then – without ever considering what has been achieved by the senior team – it has been a good year.

Leaving aside the pleasure of winning, this and all of those other achievements are important as this is what establishes, in both their own and others' minds, a real sense that Sligo have what it takes and that Sligo now are, in their own words a "serious" county. As those that have read here over time will know, I believe that this is the only tradition that counts in Gaelic football today.

Full credit then to all those in Sligo football that have contributed to this contemporary tradition and here's a wish that they don't let up on the good work now"

I'm not experiencing too much hype either, but I only live in Dublin mind and only read newspapaers printed in Dublin.

The Dubs in fairness have done really well this year and Cork are not exactly pulling anyone up by the roots. That all said, I think Cork have the winning of this.  They just have more better players with experience. The battle for possesion will tell a lot. I think that the Dublin FF line could do more damage than the Cork on but that they will not see as much possesion.  If Dublin can get sway in the middle, particulalry early on and get scores ahead, then they have a real chance. I think though that Cork just have more firepower in that middle third to dominate the ball and thus create enough chances to eek out the win.  Don't think it will be high scoring, don't think it wil be pretty and don't think that we will be talking in glowing terms about either side aftre but someone has to win. I think it will be Cork and impressive or not, they will be where they want to be, with more to give.

Couple of points. On what Roscommon deserve? Park the sentiment. Roscommon is a Div 4 team that played like that for all bar one game. Deserving and all as their win was there, it was a tactical victory by the team against a team in paralysis. 3 points from play with silver salver service against a non existent defence and 7 place kicks out of 13 attempts does not make an All Star out of Shine. Gine player yes, nomination yes but is he better and did he do more this year (up to now, and never mind what might be to come) than Martin Clarke, John Doyle, Bernard Brogan, David Kelly, Colm Cooper, Ciaran Sheehan, Eoin Mulligan... and some of those boys have NO chance of an All Star this year

Equally on goalkeeping, Claffey did make a game shaping save in thge Commacht final and played well against Cork but this is the first year in many that there is actual competition for the goalkeeping slot.  Of the three teams remaining McVeigh, Cluxton and Quirke have all done particularly well and again by Sept 17 the deeds of July wil be long forgotten.

Stephenite - thanks and agree with you about the 'talk for the sake of talk point' and about mayogaa.com Am on a learning curve here but Willie Joe is way ahead of me - can only dream of that. Thanks again