AISF 2010: Corcaigh vs Áth Cliath

[Over the Bar]

The All-Ireland final was today.

What are you basing that statement on O'Neill?   I think Kildare would give either Cork or Dublin all they wanted and more.

[screenexile]

Thoughts from the match:


1. The penalty was a nailed on, stonewall no brainer. Simple as that.

2. Cork were there for the taking.

3. Cork are seriously overrated but have the best bench in football.

4. And have at last devleoped a set of b@lls

5. Gilroy has done wonders with that Dublin team

6. Dublin are still not a "top 3" team and won't be until they get some composure in the last 10 on a regular basis

7. The "top 3" themselves are not really that far ahead of the pack.

7. Bernard Brogan is feckin fantastic - never thought he would be that good when he came on the scene.

8. McConnell let his team down badly today in the final quarter. Brainless.

That is a good and fair summary. I was on the corner of the Davin and Cusack stands and had a 'side on' view of the penalty. What the photos above don't show is that McConnell 'drove through' his man. As Donnelly's said, the only question was how a man on a yellow card managed to get away without a second for that foul.

As to the Dublin changes, Bud should be declaring his Boden membership in making the case for Keaney. O'Gara is no butterfly and was not as good today as in each of the last two days but he did endless ploughing for Brogan - the type of selfless dirty work that Keaney would never do. When Keaney did come in he made bad decisions on the ball and did nothing to take the pressure off Brogan.

Dublin played this game at a very high pace and in the last ten minutes that caught up with them. McConnell's indiscretions were a result of a tired mind as much as anything else.

My reaction on the final whistle was that the best team lost but then factor in all the possession Cork had, the wides, the number of frees that Dublin conceded and that Cork came from 5 points down within the last 20/25 minutes and it is hard not to say that Cork deserved it.

In terms of the All Ireland, I think there is an awful amount of ramaish being written here about how either Cork or Dublin would / will win the final. For my money, literally, going into the semi finals these two teams were 3rd and 4th best of those left in the championship in terms of performances this year to date and that has to be the reference point for assessing their prospects. Granted Cork have experience and a great squad and having emerged from this test will likely be favourites but barely deserved.   

It has nothing to do with my Boden membership, Keaney is a better footballer than O'Gara at the start of the game much less coming on as a sub.  I dont know how you can say when Keaney came on he did not make an impression because he didn't have time to do so as the ball only came near him two times.  He won a free and stuck it over out of that sequence.  It appears to me the two Brogan brothers will only pass the ball to each other.  If I was on the All-Stars selection panel and somebody played me a video of a forward on a team, two points down in an All-Ireland Semi Final and him ballooning the ball high into Hill 16 with no more time on the clock instead of passing the ball (for once) to a player knowing that the only way to win was with a goal then I would not be giving him an All-Star. The best team lost on the day and they lost because of stupid decisions like that and what was made on the sideline.  Next year will be the same. And the year after.

No way I can agree with that Bud. . . Dublin were not the better team on the day. They had a better gameplan but the only Dub player you could argue played well was Brogan and the rest just tackled and hoofed the ball. Also on the Keaney thing you are right Keaney is twice the player O'Gara is no doubt but O'Gara is a ball winner and suits the system much more than Keaney. In fairness he should have come in earlier.

Anyway all told I'm glad the Dubs are not in the final as I don't like the way they play. Having said that if I were a Dublin fan I would be mighty proud of the honesty of effort and the commitment of the lads. At the end of the day they don't just have the talent but by god they gave it a lash and played to their strengths and for that they can't be faulted!

[AZOffaly]

On the penalty, I felt there was definitely a grab by O'Neill on McConnells shoulder after the initial hit by McConnell, and he dragged him down on top of him. McConnells weird body position is testament to the fact that he was trying to stay on his feet I think.

However, the initial contact was a foul I reckon because he put his arms around O'Neill in a bear hug.

As for the game itself, I thought Cork were doing their best to throw it away. Their inside forward line was hiding, and was kicking abysmal wides, not all of them under pressure either. However, credit to them in the way they stayed going, and kept their composure. They are still not playing well, but at least they have found a way to win games like that.

I think Dublin tired. Cork are a strong team, and that amount of possession deficit means a lot of hard work. I think they just ran out of gas, and then the discipline went, as it often does when teams get tired. Silly frees become the easy option. That is the downside of the Gilroy plan, it really does require savage conditioning, and savage mental strength when your body starts to go. But it does make you a hard team to beat.

Bernard Brogan was brilliant for 65 minutes, but he too got tired as he galloped around Croke Park and really took the fight to Cork. O'Gara is like a new born foal when the ball is in his hand, and a two man inside line with himself and Brogan was always going to put an unreal amount of work on Brogan, because he was going to have to finish everything, O'Gara can't.

Very compelling game though, although frustrating at time (especially Cork), but I do think Kildare have the game to beat Cork, if they can get over Down themselves.

[AZOffaly]

This is the foul I think. McConnell's arms come around. However......

The body positions here make me think O'Neill hooked his arm over McConnell's shoulder and pulled him down on top of him. I think McConnell got out foxed there by O'Neill.

[Onlooker]

At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system  .

Meath did get a second chance.  They were beaten by Louth and Kildare.

[paddypastit]

At least Dublin got a second chance in the championship, unlike Meath & the other 3 provincial winners. Some system  .

Meath did get a second chance.  They were beaten by Louth and Kildare.

Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.

No one's asking for pity Paddy, just parity.

[Reillers]

It was a great day out in the end, thought we'd lost it, honest to God, was dreading every bit of the journey home and bias media coverage, thank God I didn't have to sit there and watch it on tv because Joe Brolly is something else. Anyway, due credit to Dublin they gave it everything, Cork were awful but the subs bench, experience and maybe fitness told in the end, wasn't crazy to say the least about some of the Dublin's players "tackling" but they gave it a good go, thankfully now Cork are in the final, and hopefully we'll finally bring back Sam to Cork. We'll be favs to bring it back and I think that this team deserves it when you look at the last few seasons, that said though, we've still that one last game to go and we can't play like that in the final.

And on another note, Cadogan for me deserves a mention, fair play to him, I guess playing dual isn't impossible as everyone said.

[AZOffaly]

Cadogan did well when he came on. Should have started when Canty was obviously not right.

Why did he go down as if shot, holding his face, when O'Gara shouldered him?

[Chris agus Snoop]

Cork management seemed to want to lose this game and it was saved only by the bravery of the players,  going man for man with the 2 forwards was suicide, a simple expediant of putting an extra man as a screen in front of Brogan would have cut out 50% of the ball going in, as it was Dubs scored from nearly every attack, whereas Cork had to work through 12 dublin backs. Dubs had 42% possetion and still scored  3 more than cork by the 65 minute.
Win or lose in the final Counhihan should depart.

Amusing hearing Dara "kennedy" repeatedly going on about colm o'neil going down easy for one of the frees. I dont remember thte sunday game ever touching the issue of going down easy when Gooch and other Kerry forwards were doing  Jurgen Klinsmann impressions over the last few seasons. The anti Cork bias coming out of the sunday game is getting sickening, the langers can't wait to see us fail. Well F**k them.

[paddypastit]

Meath (leaving aside the Louth stuff) and the other three mentioned got a trophy this year. If they weren't good enough to buildon that in their next game then why should we feel sorry for them.

No one's asking for pity Paddy, just parity.

And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Stonewall penalty, McConnell basically barged into him, not even O'Driscoll with his core strength would have remained upright after that tackle. O'Neill made sure though the penalty was awarded by hooking his arm, otherwise I think we'd have seen McConnell on all fours above O'Neill...

Watching it again - Kerrigan wasn't far off MOTM.

Spot on, can't believe he wasn't even nominated by the panel  He drove Cork on when they looked like the were slipping below the surface and if it wasn't for him I don't think Cork would have been capable of taking advantage of Dublin's indiscipline.

Gilroy improved Dublin no end this year but there's still room for more improvement. Can't believe he brought Bastick & Keaney on yesterday, Fennell is a better midfielder than McConnell and they need to find a target man who can point. Very disappointed in Cork, they've stumbled their way to an AI final and Counihan still doesn't know his best team. They are missing Miskella's driving runs from half back and will need a fully fit Canty for the final. They need Cadogan in the corner if he can play in there, horrible player though, always involved in something and then goes crying to the referee showing him his lip or taking to the ground. I think Kildare can take both teams left.

[magpie seanie]

On the penalty, I felt there was definitely a grab by O'Neill on McConnells shoulder after the initial hit by McConnell, and he dragged him down on top of him. McConnells weird body position is testament to the fact that he was trying to stay on his feet I think.

However, the initial contact was a foul I reckon because he put his arms around O'Neill in a bear hug.

As for the game itself, I thought Cork were doing their best to throw it away. Their inside forward line was hiding, and was kicking abysmal wides, not all of them under pressure either. However, credit to them in the way they stayed going, and kept their composure. They are still not playing well, but at least they have found a way to win games like that.

I think Dublin tired. Cork are a strong team, and that amount of possession deficit means a lot of hard work. I think they just ran out of gas, and then the discipline went, as it often does when teams get tired. Silly frees become the easy option. That is the downside of the Gilroy plan, it really does require savage conditioning, and savage mental strength when your body starts to go. But it does make you a hard team to beat.

Bernard Brogan was brilliant for 65 minutes, but he too got tired as he galloped around Croke Park and really took the fight to Cork. O'Gara is like a new born foal when the ball is in his hand, and a two man inside line with himself and Brogan was always going to put an unreal amount of work on Brogan, because he was going to have to finish everything, O'Gara can't.

Very compelling game though, although frustrating at time (especially Cork), but I do think Kildare have the game to beat Cork, if they can get over Down themselves.

Fair enough. Maybe you are correct on it being a foul for the initial contact (it was but one that's usually not given in my book). I contend there is no way a penalty would have been given without O'Neill pulling McDonnell down on top of him so basically a foul by a forward clinched the penalty. I know if it was a man wearing a Sligo jersey the penalty wouldn't have been awarded. Anyway, i've gone on too much about this so I'll leave it.

I think Donnacha O'Connor was sure he had missed it when he kicked it.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.

I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.

Every team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.

[AZOffaly]

And if a provincial winner were to win a QF and then lose a semi should they get a second chance. Provincial winners have a trophy. That puts then ahead of at least 28 other counties - is that not enough for ye.

I've said enough about this on other threads, so to summarise: if not one of the 4 best teams in their provinces makes it through to the semis, either a) some teams don't give a toss about the Provincials, in which case they're worse than useless, or b) the Qualifiers' route is a distinct advantage.

Every team, bar the Provincial winners, every single team has one opportunity to lose, just one. Is that a fair system, i.e., you're penalised for winning? The Quarter Finals were introduced to faciliate the re-entry of losers, yet even though the Provincial winners have to negotiate this extra hurdle they alone do not have the luxury of a loss. That's c**k-eyed.

Facilitate the *early* entry of Provincial losers into the All Ireland series.
Provincial winners have a bye all the way to the quarter final.