The record isn't that hot.
We always knew the league was going to be difficult and staying up was always going to be them aim. Losing out in close games, conceding easy scores, and relying on old guns left us fearful for the Summer months. The fact that the manager was fully focussed this season, instead of on an election campaign gave us hope for the Summer.
Now we are out, disappointed once again. The "what if" will start about Ciaran McDonald? The manager will come under intense pressure? The County Board will be rudderless and directionless, and more than likely we will be having the same discussions next year.
Its my own view that the players really need to take a very long, hard and serious look at themselves. Many see themselves as the pin-up boys of the county simply because they are given the jersey. Yes, they will put in the hours with their clubs, and with organised training. But outside of that? Are they pushing themselves as far as they can? Where is the work ethic on the field? Even in their better games do they come anywhere near the work ethic of say Monaghan, Fermanagh or Westmeath? Many have talent to be better than they actually are but have been living on Easy Street for too long.
John O'Mahony according to setanta.com has hinted that his future is not cut and dried:
QuoteMayo boss John O'Mahony indicated after yesterday's one-point defeat to Tyrone that he may not be in charge of the Westerners for much longer.
O'Mahony's men went down on a scoreline of 1-9 to 0-13 in a low-key clash at Croke Park, and the two-time All-Ireland winning boss was in despondent mood afterwards, saying any decision on his future was not his to make.
"I took this job two years ago on a three-year term," he said.
"I've given it absolutely everything I can along with my backroom team. The way the GAA works is, you might have a three-year term but that means little and I have never stayed in any job where I was not wanted."
O'Mahony has balanced his managerial role with being a Fine Gael TD for the Mayo constituency, but some have doubted whether it is possible to successfully sustain both jobs.
Since O'Mahony took over, he has presided over just two championship wins, against Cavan and Sligo respectively. Mayo have been beaten by Galway in both years of his tenure, and they also went down to Ulster opposition in the qualifiers last year, when they were beaten by Derry by ten points.
"I'm willing to live by my commitment but obviously I'll sit down with the County board and see what they want. It's down to other people. It won't be my decision. It never is," he concluded.
I'm sure the political allegiences of the County Board will not sack their man. Is it a case that the manager wants an out without any political damage? There has been so much spin over the past two years you wouldn't know. Personally I don't think there is anybody out there to replace him. His record has been appalling in championship football but he is probably still the best man in the county for the job.
Anyway for the record here are the results of the year (courtesy of www.mayogaablog.com (http://www.mayogaablog.com) (P14 W5 D1 L8 F13-164 A 17-132)
FBD Connacht League
Mayo 0-14 NUIG 2-9 (Ballinrobe, 6/1/2008). MAYO: T Higgins; C Moran, BJ Padden, T Howley; C Cafferkey, L O'Malley, K Higgins; J Gill (0-1), P Gardiner (0-3); R Haran, A Dillon (0-2), M Mullins (0-1); B Benson (0-1), A O'Malley (0-5, 2 frees), J Prenty (0-1). Subs: S O'Shea for Haran, A Higgins for Moran.
Mayo 1-12 Sligo IT 1-6 (Charlestown, 13/1/2008). MAYO: S Nallen; J Brogan, BJ Padden (0-1), A Higgins; D Geraghty, T Howley, K Higgins; P Gardiner, S O'Shea; J Gill, A O'Malley (0-1), D Corrigan (0-1); M Mullins (0-2), A Dillon (0-5), B Benson (1-2). Subs: J Kilcullen for O'Shea, O'Shea for Corrigan.
Roscommon 2-8 Mayo 2-14 (Ballinlough, 20/1/2008). MAYO: S Nallen; C Moran, BJ Padden, L O'Malley; D Geraghty, T Howley, C Cafferky; S O'Shea, P Gardiner (0-1); J Gill (0-4), A O'Malley, A Dillon (0-7); M Mullins (1-1), E Varley (0-1), B Benson (1-0). Subs: K Higgins for D Geraghty, A Higgins for C Cafferky, J Kilcullen for B Benson.
National Football League Division 1
Derry 2-9 Mayo 1-9 (Celtic Park, 2/2/2008). MAYO: D Clarke, C Moran, BJ Padden, L O'Malley, C Barrett (0-1), T Howley, K Higgins; S O Shea, P Gardiner; J Gill, A Dillon (0-2), M Mullins (0-1); C Mortimor (1-2), A O'Malley (0-1), A Moran (0-2). Subs: T Cunniffe (for C Moran), D Heaney (for Gill), T Parsons (for Padden).
Mayo 0-16 Donegal 2-11 (McHale Park, 17/2/2008). MAYO: S Nallen; T Cunniffe, BJ Padden, L O'Malley; C Barrett, T Howley, K Higgins (0-2); S O'Shea, P Gardiner; J Gill (0-2), A Dillon (0-3, one free), M Mullins; C Mortimor (0-6, three frees), A O'Malley (0-1), A Moran (0-1). Subs: D Heaney for Cunniffe, T Parsons (0-1) for O'Shea, A Kilcoyne for A O'Malley, T Mortimor for Mullins.
Laois 1-13 Mayo 1-13 (O'Moore Park, Portaoise, 1/3/2008). MAYO: D Clarke; T Cunniffe, BJ Padden, L O'Malley; C Moran, T Howley, K Higgins; D Heaney, J Gill (0-1); P Gardiner (0-2), A Dillon (0-1), M Mullins (0-1, free); C Mortimor (0-2, one free), A O'Malley (0-4), A Moran (1-0, pen). Subs: T Mortimor (0-1) for Dillon, R McGarritty for C Moran, A Kilcoyne (0-1) for Mullins, K Conroy for Padden.
Mayo 0-16 Kerry 1-12 (McHale Park, 16/3/2008). MAYO: D Clarke; T Cunniffe, K Conroy, L O'Malley; D Heaney, T Howley, K Higgins; J Gill (0-1), R McGarritty; P Gardiner, A Dillon (0-2, two frees), T Mortimor; C Mortimor (0-7, five frees), A O'Malley (0-5, one free), A Moran (0-1). Subs: C Boyle for L O'Malley, T Parsons for Gill, P Harte for Dillon.
Kildare 2-8 Mayo 2-14 (St Conleth's Park, Newbridge, 30/3/2008). MAYO: D Clarke, T Cunniffe (0-1), K Conroy, C Boyle; D Heaney, T Howley, K Higgins; R McGarritty (0-1), T Parsons (1-0); J Gill, A Dillon (0-2, two frees), T Mortimor; C Mortimor (0-6, four frees), A O'Malley (0-3), A Moran (1-1). Subs: P Harte for T Mortimor (inj.), M Ronaldson for C Mortimor, B Moran for Dillon.
Mayo 1-11 Galway 2-9 (McHale Park, 6/4/2008). MAYO: D Clarke; T Cunniffe, K Conroy (0-1), C Boyle (0-1); D Heaney (0-1), T Howley, K Higgins; R McGarritty, T Parsons (0-1); J Gill (0-1), A Dillon (0-1, a free), P Harte; C Mortimor (0-2, one free), A O'Malley (0-3, frees), A Moran (1-0). Subs: B Moran for Harte, P Kelly for Cunniffe, M Ronaldson for B Moran.
Tyrone 0-15 Mayo 0-13 (Healy Park, Omagh, 13/4/2008). MAYO: D Clarke; T Cunniffe, K Conroy, C Boyle; D Heaney, T Howley, K Higgins; R McGarritty, T Parsons (0-2); J Gill, A Dillon, A Campbell; C Mortimor (0-6, three frees), A O'Malley (0-4, one free), A Moran. Subs: P Kelly for Cunniffe (inj.), M Mullins for Dillon, A Higgins for Heaney, M Ronaldson (0-1) for Gill, B Benson for Campbell.
Connacht Championship
SEMI-FINAL:
Mayo 3-11 Sligo 0-7 (McHale Park, 22/6/2008). MAYO: David Clarke; Colm Boyle, Kieran Conroy, Keith Higgins; Tom Cunniffe, David Heaney, James Nallen; Ronan McGarritty, Tom Parsons (0-2); Peadar Gardiner, Pat Harte (1-1, goal from a penalty), Trevor Mortimor (1-0); Conor Mortimor (0-5), Austin O'Malley (0-2), Andy Moran. Subs: Aidan Kilcoyne (1-1) for Gardiner, BJ Padden (for O'Malley), Mickey Mullins for Trevor Mortimor, Mark Ronaldson for Conor Mortimor.
FINAL:
Mayo 1-14 Galway 2-12 (McHale Park, 13/7/2008). MAYO: David Clarke; Keith Higgins, Kieran Conroy, Colm Boyle; Tom Cunniffe, David Heaney, James Nallen; Ronan McGarritty (0-1), Tom Parsons; Alan Dillon (0-7, five frees), Pat Harte (0-1), Trevor Mortimor (0-1); Conor Mortimor (0-2), Austin O'Malley, Andy Moran. Subs: Aidan Kilcoyne (1-0) for T Mortimor, Aidan Higgins and Peadar Gardiner for Boyle and Conroy, BJ Padden (0-2) for O'Malley, Mark Ronaldson for Parsons.
QUALIFIER
Tyrone 0-13 Mayo 1-9
im not one for grave dancing so all I'll say is i think JOM's time is up now for all to see.
what mayo have missed this year is a little spark all these one point losses have me right sicken Coz they were all games we could have won but for a lack of a bit of direction and/or leadership. Im not close top any of the squad members so i dont know who within the team should be providing that but there was a sense of panic in the last 5 on saturday the spoke volumes. Previous incarnations of this team had a coolness that some took almost as a lack of fire or passion but it was a sign of confidence as i believe that thiese are an exceptionally talented group who have been poorly led.
Thare were some good pointers for the future Parsons confirmed he is a class act as did K higgind, gardiner,Howley, CLarke, BJP and Dillon
others disappointed or were neither here not there but these are the guys along with harte and mcgarrity we will be looking to lead for the next few years,
the powers that bee need to pick a new manager carefully and not give in to another populist choice because of stuff they did years ago. For such fine players many of the need to improve some very basic skills look ho many times we kicked they ball directly over the sideline or were penalize for a bad pick up not to mention some players very poor shooting at goal when they just looked very awkward and unused to it.
At least least it was better than last years humiliation to derry .
maybe be O'mahony has made Progress ::)
MAIGH EO ABU
A very disappointing year. Shocking error of judgement re MacDonald and it was always going to end badly after that.
O Mahoney to go? Personally I could nt care less for the simple reason we ve fallen away badly and will probably get worse before it gets better so he may as well hang around. Another manager would be ate after a year with a team on the wane. The next guy will be on a hiding to nothing with Mac, Nallen, Aiden and Heaney more than likely gone. We may as well hit rock bottom before someone knew takes over like we were when Maughan took over.
As this mess is largely managements own doing they should remain to clean up before quitting. At least leave some shape of a team behind. Also if Johnno goes I see the awful spectre of Holmes and Connelly looming in the background. No coach there either but it would be something this craven Board would do.
Lads ye need a reality check, Mayo didn't win yesterday and haven't won Sam in the last few years because ye haven't got the players. It has little or nothing to do with management and everything to with the talent available to you, the bottom line is you don't have any top class scoring forward, midfield player, centre back or full back.
Well, most of us placed our faith in John O'Mahony to deliver Sam. It had to end in failure I suppose. He still has one year left to do but it seems that from what I can gather from his statements since the match yesterday that he doesn't really want to carry on. Usually after other disappointments I can find some sense of optimism after those defeats. This year I can find none. I don't know what to think anymore.
Quote from: Zulu on August 03, 2008, 10:13:28 PM
Lads ye need a reality check, Mayo didn't win yesterday and haven't won Sam in the last few years because ye haven't got the players. It has little or nothing to do with management and everything to with the talent available to you, the bottom line is you don't have any top class scoring forward, midfield player, centre back or full back.
Sorry zulu, but when the best centre-back is played out of position at no 4 maybe the management have to take a bit of a look at themselves.
Quote from: Zulu on August 03, 2008, 10:13:28 PM
Lads ye need a reality check, Mayo didn't win yesterday and haven't won Sam in the last few years because ye haven't got the players. It has little or nothing to do with management and everything to with the talent available to you, the bottom line is you don't have any top class scoring forward, midfield player, centre back or full back.
We re not talking about winning Sam. But making progress and getting the most out of players available was something we expected management to achieve. 2 years into the job with a talented group of players he fails against an average Galway team at home as well as a declining Tyrone team that are only a patch on their former selves. Both failures largely down to poor selection and tactical cluelessness.
QuoteSorry zulu, but when the best centre-back is played out of position at no 4 maybe the management have to take a bit of a look at themselves.
I only caught bits and pieces of the game at work yesterday so I'm not sure who you are talking about (Howley I presume) but Mayo didn't lose because of that. Parsons shooting, Mortimer's missed goal chance and the inability of Mayo players in general to kick easy scores when on top were crucial.
QuoteWe re not talking about winning Sam. But making progress and getting the most out of players available was something we expected management to achieve. 2 years into the job with a talented group of players he fails against an average Galway team at home as well as a declining Tyrone team that are only a patch on their former selves. Both failures largely down to poor selection and tactical cluelessness.
I think you are being harsh on Galway there Moysider, but tell me this who should the management have played and what tactics should they have used? IMO a lack of quality forwards is killing Mayo not any real deficencies in the management.
As a Rossie I had mixed feelings yesterday as to who I wanted to win. Normally I would have wanted Mayo as I have some good Mayo friends who are passionate to see Mayo win an AI, I would love to see a player like Nallen win an AI medal (he reminds me of the late John Morley) and I know how much it would mean to the ordinary Mayo supporters including some of the posters here. My hesitancy is mainly due to my feelings about Johnno who I think is just a mite too clever for his own good and for the good of Mayo football. Back in 2005 O'Mahony and his spin masters created an impression that he was ready to take over and Maughan resigned (the fact that we ended up with Maughan has not helped my objectivity on this issue). Then for what I believe were political reasons i.e. the general election was not going to happen before 2007 O'Mahony pulled back spinning out some yarn about not getting some assurances from the county board – horse manure. In come M&M and Mayo get to an AI final and in the process win one of the best ever AI semis I have ever seen. Yes they blew it in the AI and failed to perform but Moran had done enough to be at least asked to continue. But no –politics intervened and while I do not think that O'Mahony was all that interested in the manager's job political realities demanded he take the job on. Not a lot of principles involved.
His performance as manager has been poor and it is hard to fathom what he is about. He talks about team building yet the best players are those who are near the end of their careers. There is no obvious pattern emerging that would indicate a new approach from Mayo and indeed he does not even seem to know what his best team is. Individual players have not improved and neither has he shown us that he has imbued a sense of confidence or will to win in the team. Contrary to what some people think I believe that Mayo have a strong panel, the won an U21 AI and were narrowly beaten in another while they have won the AI club on 2 or 3 occasions. They might not have the perfect player for every position but overall they have 25 or so players that are just as good as what most of the top counties have. Johnno is supposed to be the guru that ensures that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts but he has not given any evidence so far that he can deliver.
I have always felt that he has been over rated as a manager but has been lucky. He had some great talent and leaders in Galway yet in '98 they were very lucky to draw with us in Tuam (Prior can take some credit) while I wonder if Galway had met Meath or Kerry in the final rather than an inexperienced Kidare would they have won. Indeed if Mayo had met Kildare in 97 and Galway had met Kerry in 98 maybe it would be Maughan who would be the saint in Mayo (and TD!). Again in 2001 Johnno was saved by the newly introduced backdoor and a lucky draw in the qualifiers. I don't want to take away from Galway's 2 AI victories but I wonder has Johnno got too much credit for them.
If he does stay on he should be told that an AI in '09 is the target – none of this team building cop out stuff he goes on with. He should be told that he gets the best players in Mayo on the panel, pick the best players available and to put out a team that wants to and believes they can win. If not then he should step down now and let someone else take charge. He has done nothing since he took over that gives the impression that a team is being built and either he stays on for '09 to have a proper cut off winning the AI or he steps down and lets somebody else start the team building. The bluff and blather should stop.
Johnno wanted 3 years, given that no one else is going to take the job now he needs to see out what he started.
Quote from: stephenite on August 04, 2008, 12:15:06 AM
Johnno wanted 3 years, given that no one else is going to take the job now he needs to see out what he started.
The last thing Mayo want is For John o to go . Mayo need to get good qualiy forwards . The best Mayo forwards I have seen in the past 10 years are Casey and Horan .
Quote from: Tatler Jack on August 03, 2008, 11:49:26 PM
I have always felt that he has been over rated as a manager but has been lucky. He had some great talent and leaders in Galway yet in '98 they were very lucky to draw with us in Tuam (Prior can take some credit) while I wonder if Galway had met Meath or Kerry in the final rather than an inexperienced Kidare would they have won. Indeed if Mayo had met Kildare in 97 and Galway had met Kerry in 98 maybe it would be Maughan who would be the saint in Mayo (and TD!). Again in 2001 Johnno was saved by the newly introduced backdoor and a lucky draw in the qualifiers. I don't want to take away from Galway's 2 AI victories but I wonder has Johnno got too much credit for them.
That was a fine Kildare team at the very peak of their powers that we beat in 1998 that had already beaten both Meath and Kerry that year and were hot favourites in the final. I have no doubt we would have beaten either Kerry or Meath in the final if we had met them. People forget that Kildare team nearly reached another final in 2000 only to lose to us again in the semis. Plus you will probably find that most All-Ireland winners come through at least one game they could well have lost during the Summer.
As for 2001 yes we lost early on but then went through Wicklow, Cork, Armagh, Roscommon, Derry and Meath. There was no doubt that we were the best football team that year.
You can argue that Johnno was lucky as he inherited a gifted bunch of footballers that came very close to winning 3 AI's in 4 years. How much was down to himself and down to the players I can't answer but I think he deserves another chance with Mayo. He knows what he's doing but even he can't turn water into wine.
Remarkable how similar all this is to Johno's last time in charge of Mayo. After the All-Ireland appearance of 89, two disappointing years (1990, 1991) where supporters were expectant, but nothing delivered. Letters in the paper complaining about the absense of a gameplan in the Connacht final replay against Ros in Hyde. Johno I think had a year to go then too, but resigned. Only difference is then he did not have the full support of the county board. This time he probably does. But the soundings from the man himself are similar to those of 1991.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on August 04, 2008, 02:12:27 AM
Quote from: Tatler Jack on August 03, 2008, 11:49:26 PM
I have always felt that he has been over rated as a manager but has been lucky. He had some great talent and leaders in Galway yet in '98 they were very lucky to draw with us in Tuam (Prior can take some credit) while I wonder if Galway had met Meath or Kerry in the final rather than an inexperienced Kidare would they have won. Indeed if Mayo had met Kildare in 97 and Galway had met Kerry in 98 maybe it would be Maughan who would be the saint in Mayo (and TD!). Again in 2001 Johnno was saved by the newly introduced backdoor and a lucky draw in the qualifiers. I don't want to take away from Galway's 2 AI victories but I wonder has Johnno got too much credit for them.
That was a fine Kildare team at the very peak of their powers that we beat in 1998 that had already beaten both Meath and Kerry that year and were hot favourites in the final. I have no doubt we would have beaten either Kerry or Meath in the final if we had met them. People forget that Kildare team nearly reached another final in 2000 only to lose to us again in the semis. Plus you will probably find that most All-Ireland winners come through at least one game they could well have lost during the Summer.
As for 2001 yes we lost early on but then went through Wicklow, Cork, Armagh, Roscommon, Derry and Meath. There was no doubt that we were the best football team that year.
You can argue that Johnno was lucky as he inherited a gifted bunch of footballers that came very close to winning 3 AI's in 4 years. How much was down to himself and down to the players I can't answer but I think he deserves another chance with Mayo. He knows what he's doing but even he can't turn water into wine.
Take your point GBB. And that may well be the stigma that the Johnno era leaves behind in this County. As if we have nt enough stigmas. I can hear O Rourke , Brolly and others saying that if Johnno could nt do it in Mayo then we re a dead loss. We re in a scary place as a result of Johnno s return. He s not going to fix things and a recovery operation could take some time.
Zulu its bull to say that Dillon is the only player that we have. Ok we do not have the same quality as Kerry, but the young players that are coming through if managed properly can come together as possibly the most talented bunch of Mayo players since 1996. Some have had bad years, bad days etc etc but the likes of David Clarke, Keith Higgins, Trevor Howley, Tom Cunniffe, Tom Parsons, Alan Dillon and Aidan Kilcoyne are all young enough and have all done it on big days. Ger Cafferkey has potential as a full-back. Seamus O'Shea will hopefully grow into an able partner for Parsons. Aidan Campbell is a big man that has played u21 football for 3 years. The talent is there if properly honed. We won an AI u21 in 2006. Had a better team in 2007 and lost to a good Laois team (albeit that our best player left for Oz), and some more promise again this year.
Now, the interview on The Sunday Game was on in our local last night and went down like a lead balloon. Tatler Jack has posted an excellent analysis of the situation and the manager talking about being put under "intense pressure" to take the job, and now being questioned about his failures is a bit rich. Its a straightforward question that needs to be put to Johnno - Do you want the job for 09. If yes, he should be given the chance, with possible a re-structuring of his back-room team. If no, he should walk. The County Board have their faults but he should not be allowed to hang them out to dry on this one. They supported his Blue Shirt Crusade. Now he should stick by them.
But again the players have to ask themselves. How badly do we want this? JOM had them in preparing with individual programmes since last August/September. When left to their own devices how many are actually going about their own training, away from the collective sessions. There are people that say that some have not been too diligent. A manager can try and change attitudes but cannot do everything.
And finally any assessment of JOM should be his dealings with the team overall. Not the McDonald issue. There was no guarantee that McD would have played for Mayo this year or that he would have succeeded. He has had great days in the Mayo shirt but a manager should not hang because of a decision made about a 32/33 year old. The Ole Oler lunatic fringe of the Mayo support should not be allowed dictate to that extent.
JOM sounds like a man that wants out and is trying to look for a way of leaving without losing face. Why not blame the county board so, says JOM.
I agree with Barney, if he really wants to wait then he probably should be left where he is.
But if his heart is not in it, let him go, be it walking away or pushed. And lets not worry about another 'shafting' tale going around. His heart doesn't seem to be in it going by his quotes. In three or four years I think we can be extremely competitive, we can't afford a year of going through the motions though.
Snippets of quotes can be very misleading. Looking at the papers a fuller picture can be painted:
ExaminerQuoteInevitably, O'Mahony was asked about his own future after two years where his only championship wins were against Cavan and Sligo. "I took this job two years ago for a three-year term," he said.
"I have given it absolutely everything along with all my backroom team, everything I can. The way the GAA works is you might have a three-year term, but I have never stayed in any job when I wasn't wanted.
"That would be the situation now as well. I'm willing to live by my commitment. Obviously I have to sit down with the county board and see what they want, and we will go forward from there.
"I am not going to monopolise or say I had a three-year year term. All I can say is I have to sit down with (selectors) Tommy (Lyons) and Kieran (Gallagher) yet and probably say I would want to continue, see how the dust settles."
IndependentQuoteTwice in the space of four weeks Mayo had been edged out of major championship games by a point and now O'Mahony doesn't know if his masters on the county board want any more of him.
It wasn't meant to be like this. Having visited so much joy on Galway and Leitrim, O'Mahony was brought back to his native Mayo to close out the All-Ireland deal after final failures in 2004 and 2006. Two seasons on, Mayo's only championship wins were against Cavan and Sligo while they lost to Galway (twice), Derry and Tyrone.
O'Mahony still has a year to run and is keen to see it through but if the board want him out (which they won't if they have a thimble-full of sense) he'll leave quietly and quickly.
"I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I'm willing to live by my commitments but obviously I'll sit down with the county board and see what they want," he said.
He also suggested that it was a time for Mayo to hold their nerve. His squad are a work in progress and panic trading won't achieve anything.
"I've no problem walking out the door if somebody else can come in and win an All-Ireland for Mayo next year. I've a fair idea that I know what needs to be done so it's important to hold the nerve."
Quote from: Barney on August 04, 2008, 09:41:13 AM
The Ole Oler lunatic fringe of the Mayo support should not be allowed dictate to that extent.
Jesus Christ Barney. Lunatic fringe? Calm down, for the love of God. Things are bad enough without starting a civil war.
The biggest mistake John O'Mahony made in dropping Ciarán McDonald was doing so without having anyone better to replace him.
As such, maybe the people calling for Johnno's head now might also suggest who would replace him. Johan Cruyff, maybe.
People need to walk away from this, watch and enjoy the club Championship and see what develops from that. The most thing Mayo need are leaders. If anyone feels like making a name for himself, let him lead his parish to the Moclair Cup. That's where it's at now.
Quote from: Zulu on August 03, 2008, 10:13:28 PM
Lads ye need a reality check, Mayo didn't win yesterday and haven't won Sam in the last few years because ye haven't got the players. It has little or nothing to do with management and everything to with the talent available to you, the bottom line is you don't have any top class scoring forward, midfield player, centre back or full back.
If only it were that simple, Zulu. If only it were that simple.
Micheal O Muircheartaigh waxed about the greatest football game of all time when Mayo squeezed past Dublin in 2006. True, they collapsed in the final but talent doesn’t evaporate like water in the sunlight. If the team was good against the Dubs they still had the potential to be good a few weeks later.
O’Mahony was to inherit a battle-hardened and gifted squad. Mickey and Beefer were making some questionable decisions regarding both players and tactics.
Brady, Nallen, O’Neill and Gardiner, amongst others, started assuming leadership and influencing team tactics.
John O’Mahony was to inherit that team.
Furthermore, he was able to draw on recruits from a successful u21 squad that had tasted All Ireland success. What other county manager in recent times has had the same pool of talent at his disposal?
Having been given the resources he asked for, O’Mahony has managed to beat Cavan last year and Sligo this year. There his record of achievements comes to an end. There is absolutely no personal malice or any sort of begrudgery behind any criticism I level at the man. I really was hoping things would go well for him.
What really grinds my gears is that he appears to have a subtle PR campaign ticking over in the background, explaining away hiccups and distancing himself from any possible blame for the team’s performance.
He was to explain the performance against Galway in 2007 by saying he never saw a side so mentally drained before and it was down to the nightmare of the final against Kerry.
Hmm..
The same players had gotten through to a league final a short while before that and the fightback in the second half was very spirited indeed. No sign of mental meltdown I would say.
If he really wanted to drop Supermac, he could have done what the player asked for and met him face to face. Surely that was the least Ciaran deserved?
Arra, I’m sick of it all. I do wish John the Messiah and John the Deppity would meet face to face and sort out which of them takes precedence.
[quoteZulu its bull to say that Dillon is the only player that we have.][/quote]
I didn't say that Barney, the point I'm making is most of the Mayo players are decent IC footballers rather than very good ones and you need at least 3 or 4 of those if you are going to beat the best. Lar Naparka you refer to the U21 AI winning side but both Cork and Laois have had a number of very good U21 sides recently yet if I mentioned them as potential AI winners many would laugh at me. The point I'm making is Mayo are doing ok for the talent they have, Mayo are good enough to compete with most teams but not good enough to beat the top 5 or 6 on a regular basis IMO.
Think he's right lads - you can't replace lads like DB and Ciaran Mac, and even in their pomp we either shot ourselves in the foot by leaving DB on the bench or they didn't have the extra 2-3 lads of similair quality to back them up. And we leave Mac out of it altogether this year. ???
We have the guts of a good team coming together and providing that everything falls into place and lads hold form and stay injury free we can be up there challenging again.
If Johno does want to get out, he will have to be very careful how he engineers it.
The next general election is less than 4 years away at most, and if he antagonises the Mayo public by jumping ship now, he might still be paying for last Saturday's defeat in 4 years time.
If he does go, would there be any welcome in Mayo for a third term for John Maughan?...He took Mayo to All Ireland Finals in both of his previous terms.
I don't think Maughan would get a third term - but if Mayo were to win an All Ireland I think it would be great for JM to oversee it. Not going to happen in all probability though.
Heart says yes - head says no.
a change in management is not the solution. JOM was given a 3 year contract and lets see out the 3 years. We are too fond of changing management. In 09 i would think heaney, nallen and aidan higgins will have retired. The rebuilding (although slowly) has unearthed some new players and hopefully will unearth somemore. IMO the problems we have now are more to do with the manner in which micky moran was shafted. He should have been given another year and then if that didn't work JOM could then have taken over - if he wanted the job. References to politics and the sort is very unhelpful and alot of the jonno bashing is of this nature so i think it is important we stick to the football.
The CMD debate is over now the "what ifs" are irrelevent. I think we could have done with him this year and feel the issue was dealt with badly and a greater degree of transparacy on both sides would have closed this issue.
Mayo are lacking players in some key positions and a change in management at this stage will not solve this. The key to our sucess is continuity with development. We are used of defeats and i think one of our main problems is that we think we have agod given right to be participating in all ireland semi finals and finals. We lads we dont. I would rather have one or two years like what we have had and then comeback and be actually compeditive enough to win one. I am sick of winning connacht titles , qf and semis only to collapse in finals. I believe that if JOM gets us to another final that this will not happen.
For now though i would like to put out the positions i think we have nailed down players for and then leave blanks in where i feel we have found no one yet.(feel free to knock my thoughts but give a reason!- as this is only my opinion) You will notice i have no full back line as i can not honestly say i have seen anyone over the last 2 years that i have been entirely impressed with apart from keith higgins who i would rather as a half back.i have mcgarrity at ff so he can go out to the middle to help out if required leavig space for dillon to come in with the ball
Clarke
? ? ?
D Kilcullen T Howley K Higgins
Parsons O'Shea
BJP Harte Dillon
C Mortimer R McGarrity T Mortimer
then players bring from the bench a moran, kilcoyne, cambell.
I've seen a fair bit of Seamus O'Shea at U21 and Sigerson level and he'll never make a senior IC midfielder IMO. Sorry if I'm coming across as anti-Mayo lads but I just don't think ye are realistic about the quality of player available to you. The real question is why Mayo don't produce more quality players, not decent players but players of the quality that Kerry mass produce.
Kinda glad we lost on Saturday as I dont think we have a side good enough to win this year anyways. I think the lads will be better off in the club championship than playing another game that they will probably lose. My hope is that
1 Johno stays to finish his term
2 We find a Full Back and a Full Forward
3 There is a more settled side takes the field in the Connacht opener next year. (Hell of a lot of switches in the 6 back positions all this year)
4 We are lucky with injuries as we dont have the depth that for example Kerry have (6 or more All Ireland winners on their bench yesterday)
Looking to next year we could be going the qualifier route next year anyways as we have to go to Pearse and we have a 100 % failure rate there. So if we do manage a victory down there we will know we have a strong team and things may progress to at least a semi from there - if not the management team will probably go and the new one should have a settled spine and the springboard of a home game v galway which I always think we should win ( Still think we were cheated out of it by Coldrick bottling 2 2nd yellow decisions this year). And if there is one man I want to see on the next management team and maybe even as a selector this year its Noel Connelly.
He may not be a coach but he has been at the heart of some of Mayos finest performances the past 12 years as a player and manager.
Keep the Faith people ;)
i'll probably be told to f**k off by mayo posters. But Mayo have a lot of good footballers Zulu, i've seen them at underage a fair bit against dublin underage teams that i've been linked with and the first thing i'll say is, mayo players tend to dis-improve on the senior side. Why that is , I don't know , but at underage either at u21 they are not far off the top4 in the country every other year at least.
To be honest i don't know ifs its a management thing,but very few Mayo players are willing or are comfortable with repsonsibility in championship football. They are always looking for someone else to step up. Mortimer is the marquee forward up front, but he dosn't want to be for some reason. He has the talent but not the willingness to lead the forward line. The defence has no leader either and there is a lack of people in that area willing to step up. nallen at 36 was mayo's best player last Saturday, that isn't a good thing. Parsons was the only guy in my view who took responsibility last Saturday and is probably a future captain yet he's even been pilloried by his own for missing a few shots. At least he was willing to have a go, because plenty of others a lot older than him didn't want the responsibility.
But that the crux of the issue for Mayo players they always look for someone else to do it and as a result lose virtually all the tight games they are involved in. Galway have padraig joyce , thats why they won the connacht final, mayo had no-one.
The mistake Johnno made was getting rid of players that had something to offer. The number one rule of managament is you get the best players into the squad. O Mahony didn't do that, why i don't know. But don't also assume that u21 will follow into senior success. dublin reached and won 1 consecutive u21 all-ireland finals in 02 and 03 and still haven't landed the big one, possibly for similar reasons to mayo. BUt the first thing Johno has to do is find some players who thrive on responsibility in championship football and have the heart for battle down the stretch. I'm not sure Mayo have alot of them and its killing them. But its a mistake to say they don;t have talent, they do, its more mental issues in my view. But that can be as big a drawback as a lack of talent as well.
Sad exit but changing the Manager is not the answer.
Many posters here saw this coming from way back in the league campaign where our full back line struggled miserably and never got sorted, that was a bad mistake and hopefully this lesson can be learned for 09.
IMO we need to find at least another 5 Natural footballers similar to Dillion, Parsons and Keith Higgins before we will be able to compete at the top six level.
Looking at yesterdays match Kerry have 20 natural footballers and no one will touch them from here on in, they will beat Galway out the gate and take the semi handy also and prob beat Armagh by 6/7 points in the final.
I'm not going to criticise individual players but as was stated earlier you have to question some lads hunger? Losing 2 match's by 1 point is possibly evidence of a lack of hunger/will to win ? this I find is the most dissappointing aspect of the whole campaign, which is a lack of leadership.
Hopefully some lads will return back to the Mayo fold for the end of their club campaigns and stay and please god next year with the knowledge that it will be Johno's last stand they will give it their all for the County Team.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2008, 08:25:53 PM
i'll probably be told to f**k off by mayo posters. But Mayo have a lot of good footballers Zulu, i've seen them at underage a fair bit against dublin underage teams that i've been linked with and the first thing i'll say is, mayo players tend to dis-improve on the senior side. Why that is , I don't know , but at underage either at u21 they are not far off the top4 in the country every other year at least.
To be honest i don't know ifs its a management thing,but very few Mayo players are willing or are comfortable with repsonsibility in championship football. They are always looking for someone else to step up. Mortimer is the marquee forward up front, but he dosn't want to be for some reason. He has the talent but not the willingness to lead the forward line. The defence has no leader either and there is a lack of people in that area willing to step up. nallen at 36 was mayo's best player last Saturday, that isn't a good thing. Parsons was the only guy in my view who took responsibility last Saturday and is probably a future captain yet he's even been pilloried by his own for missing a few shots. At least he was willing to have a go, because plenty of others a lot older than him didn't want the responsibility.
But that the crux of the issue for Mayo players they always look for someone else to do it and as a result lose virtually all the tight games they are involved in. Galway have padraig joyce , thats why they won the connacht final, mayo had no-one.
The mistake Johnno made was getting rid of players that had something to offer. The number one rule of managament is you get the best players into the squad. O Mahony didn't do that, why i don't know. But don't also assume that u21 will follow into senior success. dublin reached and won 1 consecutive u21 all-ireland finals in 02 and 03 and still haven't landed the big one, possibly for similar reasons to mayo. BUt the first thing Johno has to do is find some players who thrive on responsibility in championship football and have the heart for battle down the stretch. I'm not sure Mayo have alot of them and its killing them. But its a mistake to say they don;t have talent, they do, its more mental issues in my view. But that can be as big a drawback as a lack of talent as well.
I would agree wholeheartedly with all you say. Players were never trusted with responsibility in this county. I could go into detail re. establishment v players in last 10 years but I wont.They are treated as an irritating distraction by the committee men. X players that are given managerial jobs turn into Ogres that are afraid of losing control like a virgin schoolteacher rather then cherishing the opportunity they are given to work with talented and the pick of young lads. Make you cry. There is a conveyou belt of footballers coming through as usual, 15 - 18 ,but unless we choose how we bring them along more carefully - I m being tactful here - none will make it. I mean none will have the ambition to think about AI. It ll be well knocked out of him.
Quote from: Tatler Jack on August 03, 2008, 11:49:26 PM
But no –politics intervened and while I do not think that O'Mahony was all that interested in the manager's job political realities demanded he take the job on. Not a lot of principles involved.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 04, 2008, 11:49:51 AM
Arra, I'm sick of it all. I do wish John the Messiah and John the Deppity would meet face to face and sort out which of them takes precedence.
Some interesting non-football analysis here : can anyone expand on ulterior motives the County Board may have had in appointing Johnno?
Who is \ are the power broker(s) in Mayo football capable of pulling off something like this? Did the club delegates speak up at the time?
Genuinely sorry to see Mayo losing, but it looks like ye just haven't the players at the moment. Mayo have always been a 'confidence' team, losing to Galway really seemed to have taken something out of ye for the qualifiers this year.
moysider, you mentioned dissatisfaction in the camp regarding selection before the CF - do you have an opinion on the players' views on Johnno staying or going?
Quote from: ildanach on August 04, 2008, 01:21:11 PM
a change in management is not the solution. JOM was given a 3 year contract and lets see out the 3 years. We are too fond of changing management. In 09 i would think heaney, nallen and aidan higgins will have retired. The rebuilding (although slowly) has unearthed some new players and hopefully will unearth somemore. IMO the problems we have now are more to do with the manner in which micky moran was shafted. He should have been given another year and then if that didn't work JOM could then have taken over - if he wanted the job. References to politics and the sort is very unhelpful and alot of the jonno bashing is of this nature so i think it is important we stick to the football.
The CMD debate is over now the "what ifs" are irrelevent. I think we could have done with him this year and feel the issue was dealt with badly and a greater degree of transparacy on both sides would have closed this issue.
Mayo are lacking players in some key positions and a change in management at this stage will not solve this. The key to our sucess is continuity with development. We are used of defeats and i think one of our main problems is that we think we have agod given right to be participating in all ireland semi finals and finals. We lads we dont. I would rather have one or two years like what we have had and then comeback and be actually compeditive enough to win one. I am sick of winning connacht titles , qf and semis only to collapse in finals. I believe that if JOM gets us to another final that this will not happen.
For now though i would like to put out the positions i think we have nailed down players for and then leave blanks in where i feel we have found no one yet.(feel free to knock my thoughts but give a reason!- as this is only my opinion) You will notice i have no full back line as i can not honestly say i have seen anyone over the last 2 years that i have been entirely impressed with apart from keith higgins who i would rather as a half back.i have mcgarrity at ff so he can go out to the middle to help out if required leavig space for dillon to come in with the ball
Clarke
? ? ?
D Kilcullen T Howley K Higgins
Parsons O'Shea
BJP Harte Dillon
C Mortimer R McGarrity T Mortimer
then players bring from the bench a moran, kilcoyne, cambell.
a change in management is not the solution. JOM was given a 3 year contract and lets see out the 3 years. We are too fond of changing management.True. Might as well stay. We d probably end up with a lot worse.
In 09 i would think Heaney, Nallen and Aidan Higgins will have retired. The rebuilding (although slowly) has unearthed some new players and hopefully will unearth somemore. Yeah those three probably will be gone which leaves 3 more big gaps to fill as well as those still gaping open still.
Now I dont think Johnno has unearthed anybody. Buried one perhaps but who did he discover that was nt going to be there anyway. So lets not give him credit for that. Parsons was coming through anyway regardless of who was manager. Cuniffe has nt improved and played out of position. Ditto Boyle. Kilcoyne under his third county manager and and no better. Campbell was one of our bankers from recent underage teams and now you have to worry about his progress as well. We thought for a while Conroy was an unannounced gem but... He did nt find one single player that was nt well sign posted. If you and me sat down tonight we would come up with 6 0r 8 names from age 16 - 21 that may well play football for Mayo for 8-10 years. managers are unearthing nobody. They are handed on players by clubs and colleges and they sometimes have to do very little as long as they dont f**k them up. Johnno got Joyce , meehans , Donnellans etc straight out of nurseries and as long as he did nt damage them they would do what they did. Previous managers got fellas like Mcgarrity, Nallen, Harte that were ignored at minor. Maughan plucked Horan from relative obscurity in 95/96. If Johnno had moulded a Horan or brought O Shea along so he could have started instead of Mcgarrity I would have sat up. Whats the point of having a specialist midfielder in the panel if he cant be used when needed? As regard rebuilding is Pat kelly on a merry- go- round of selection? Nowhere v Galway. Ahead of Boyle Conroy and O Malley v Tyrone. Strange.
References to politics and the sort is very unhelpful and alot of the jonno bashing is of this nature so i think it is important we stick to the football. I see very little reference to politics. I m not into politics much myself and I could nt care less if he was a member of the Monster Raving Looney Party. Football is my only concern.
Mayo are lacking players in some key positions and a change in management at this stage will not solve this.Debatable. Depends on who the manager is. As I ve said I m not looking for change because I dont thrust the county board to get a coach. They ll go for a personality or a safe pair of hands rather than somebody that can nurture young players and build a team. We need a proper coach eventually more than a ready made fullback or whatever. As it stands with the type of managers we usually get, Johnno, Holmes, it would take 8 or 10 exceptional talents to emerge at the same time [as happened in Galway in 98] to give us any chance of winning AI.
We have a problem with coaching in that many of our established players[ mid 20s] look beyond change and seem only interested in doing their own thing, sulk if subbed etc. Remember the problems Moran had trying to get players to execute the simplist of forward ploys. Coaching is an alien concept in many parts of Mayo - not to be confused with training, running and gym.
I would rather have one or two years like what we have had and then comeback and be actually compeditive enough to win one. I am sick of winning connacht titles , qf and semis only to collapse in finals. I believe that if JOM gets us to another final that this will not happen.If you are sick of winning Connacht titles fair enough. But in my time I ve only seen them win 11 + zero AI. They won 3 more between 51 and 81. Thats a total of 14. In that time Galway have won 28 Connachts+ 6 AI. In the same time Roscommon have won 12 Connachts - only 2 less than us.
We ve won 2 Connachts this century so far[ at this rate we will win 20 by 2099 in a province of 5 and we regard ourselves as in the big 2]
At this rate how can we expect to compete at AI level. It s not like galway have been brilliant since 2001. More like we ve been muck for all but 2 years at a time when our clubs were at their strongest and plenty quality coming through. Who to blame? We cant build teams if we dont at least win province and win qfs minimum on a regular basis.
Next year the league will be another series of auditions and we ll probably tog 5 or 6 rookies as well as 1or 2 naer- do- wells against a settled Galway to get a lesson in Salthill in the Champ. 3 or 4 changes then and we ll get a chasing in the qualifiers again.
We think we have a great rivalry with Galway but in the last 50+ years its been kinda one-sided. 2-1. I think it should be obvious that provincal success is a prerequisite to national success. Galway won and lost AI s with settled teams who dominated in the province for a few years. Mayo have been unable to put more than 2[usually 1] Connachts in a row and we go through greater change than Galway from year to year. In my time we ve only doubled up twice. Our best chance of winning one was probably 98. We were probably at our best that year but lost softish in Castlebar.
Clarke
? ? ?
D Kilcullen T Howley K Higgins
Parsons O'Shea
BJP Harte Dillon
C Mortimer R McGarrity T Mortimer
then players bring from the bench a moran, kilcoyne, cambell.
[/quote]
I have a problem with DK. If I was designing an intercounty player he would fit the bill as regards appearance but his discipline/ temperment and defensive instinct??? Now if Johnno had turned him into a Paul Galvin I would have sat up and applauded. But he did nt. He probably saw trouble and .... well, got rid of him. Safer option, but I would have liked to have seen Johnno put his stamp on these fellas. That was his job imo. My grandmother would have selected Parsons - for his curly head alone. He took looks like the easy way out it seems.
Andy and Killer have been breastfed by 3 different management teams and have not progressed. And they wont at this stage. Take them off the tit and let them fend for themselves and they need rescuing. These are the ones we need to replace, not the Nallens. Time we started picking panels with players who actually can play at a level and leave the calendar out of it.
Quote from: spectator on August 04, 2008, 11:14:12 PM
Quote from: Tatler Jack on August 03, 2008, 11:49:26 PM
But no –politics intervened and while I do not think that O'Mahony was all that interested in the manager's job political realities demanded he take the job on. Not a lot of principles involved.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 04, 2008, 11:49:51 AM
Arra, I'm sick of it all. I do wish John the Messiah and John the Deppity would meet face to face and sort out which of them takes precedence.
Some interesting non-football analysis here : can anyone expand on ulterior motives the County Board may have had in appointing Johnno?
Who is \ are the power broker(s) in Mayo football capable of pulling off something like this? Did the club delegates speak up at the time?
Genuinely sorry to see Mayo losing, but it looks like ye just haven't the players at the moment. Mayo have always been a 'confidence' team, losing to Galway really seemed to have taken something out of ye for the qualifiers this year.
moysider, you mentioned dissatisfaction in the camp regarding selection before the CF - do you have an opinion on the players' views on Johnno staying or going?
No. Have nt talked to any of the players since. Johnno is old school. Some players would respect that. Others not.
Yeah. Players knew Johnno was gone off track but in fairness most acquitted themselves well against Tyrone, and many of our lads played very well and did nt deserve to lose. But in the circumstances most did well. If I was Johnno what would annoy me most is not the critics but players he thought he d empowered pullin the equivalent of a sickie at that level. Mind You the hair gel was beyond reproach on at least one individual and hey! its important to be lookin good when you calf on RTE. And they ll play for him again next year but it wont be on a winning team. Collectively they can not be in a good place right now. 13 months on and there was f**k all difference between Celtic and Croke Park. Forget about the respective scorelines. Last year we still had Brady, Nallen, Hanley, Mac, O Neill. A year later maybe all those gone and some of the younger lads patently not up yo it.
From my experience players are honest and will play for anybody. but they play better for some than others. Not a deliberate thing from players but good managers get better performances than others.
As in all teams some players will like the manager, some less so. Players play and managers manage. A footballer is a very selfish man and at any level the individual comes first. This stuff about there being no i in team is a shit cliche to be honest. There s a pecking order in every team. There are 15 i s in successful teams and maybe in all teams. How they perform as a team is partly due to management. It s up to management to create a team spirit and a sense of common purpose. Look at the way Johnno has gone about things. Changes in the middle of Summer. Players are nt fools. They know the best player most of them have ever seen in the county is nt around to help.
Remembering making this point about Saipan. A young Damien Duff before WC match, in the tunnel, who does he want leading out the team? Keane or Stan?
They also know who the best players are - and maybe the best team too. Would Johnno s efforts to build a team last 2 years convince the players he knew what he was at? I would speculate that most of them were relieved they were picked in the chaos. Those that we re not were probably left alienated and confused.
I d love to know how S O Shea felt about being not trusted with a role last Saturday. 21 years of age. Is he good enough or not? I remember Maughan at least stickin in Heaney in 97 and him only a kid. And he did better than ok. Maughan got as much right as he did wrong i think.
A lot of you are missing the point here. The county board are developing McHale Park this year and that is where all the extra funds will be going over the next year. Thats the priority from now. The CB were under pressure to appoint JOM two years ago and they did that. It hasnt worked out, so now the CB have to rethink on wheather they are getting value for money? If O'Mahoney has had enough of it and wants out - then the CB wont try to change his mind... If that happens then look out for a low budget/low profile apointment late on this season. Someone like Tommy Jordan or the Connolly/Holmes combination (Next in line is Dempsey - but god firbid if that happens).. Finally, best of luck to the Minors playing Monaghan in Longford next Saturday. Would be nice if they could get us back to Croker for September...
Sureley you're not suggesting that managers are getting paid money to manage Mayo Senior teams? :o
good post moysider which i think hits the nail on the head.for some reason i have always felt o mahony never gives off an air of confidence and is always looking to downplay our chances of winning which ithink spreads to the team and thus they do not have the conviction or confidence to win close games. i have no doubt that all the players gave it there all on saturday but the ironclad confidence that they are going to win the game is not there.i was always very impressed with john maughan,when on his appointment in 1995 he said his aim was to win the all-ireland in his first year.most people thought he was nuts as we were terrible at the time but he truely believed it and that conviction spread to the players and they played with a confidence and a belief that had never been seen in a mayo team before. i hear alot of supporters saying that they are happy that we lost on saturday as they feared we would get a drubbing in our next game but i could not disagree more. win every game and see where it takes you and if we do get a hammering so be it. in my opinion we do have the players to challenge for honours every year but we are simply not getting the best out of them.i do not think o mahoney will succed in this and is looking for a way out of this mess and for him to say that it is not up to him if he stays or goes is totall bullshit-and if i ever hear of a 3 year plan to win the all-ireland again i will shoot someone-
I think we're witnessing a lot of the typical Mayo attitude on here. Things go wrong and suddenly everything someone else did was great.
We're seeing a lot of people say about how well Maughan did, in hindsight. Yet when he was in charge every second person in the county had something bad to say about him. I'm not saying the same people were knocking him are now praising him but its frightening when you look at the difference in opinion.
And then there's Mickey Moran. The perfect 'victim'. Nice man. Great coach, something we rarely have in this county. Brought Mayo back to an All-Ireland final after the embarrassment of 2004. Did so by beating Dublin in what the 'great' Micheal O Muireachtaigh described as the best game he ever saw. Conveniently 'shafted' by the county board for alterior political motives so that JOM can come in and ride to general election success. Appointed for a three year term. Everyone expects the ultimate return in those three years.
But after two years things aren't going to that plan. Suddenly Mayo were foolish to get rid of Moran. O'Mahony is not the Messiah we thought he was. He can't bring through Under 21 winners from 2006. He left the best forward in the county off the panel. Its all stacking against him.
But I think people are looking at things in a misguided way to suit their own argument.
Lets be real about a couple of things.
------- Mayo against Dublin in 2006 may have been one of the most entertaining games ever played but that doesn't mean either side involved were anything close to great teams. It was a 'great' game because both teams were very naive in their approach to the game and particularly to defence. Dublin especially didn't know what to do with a seven point lead. I know people might say that that was there problem but we've used it as an excuse countless times after 1996. Bottom line we won an entertaining match but Jack O'Connor left that game knowing that Kerry had the All-Ireland in the bag.
------ Mickey Moran and John Morrison did well in 2006. They brought Kevin O'Neill back, got Dillon playing well. But they ignored David Brady, didn't care too much about Trevor Mortimer. They took a lot of credit for the Dublin win. But remember it was the players who decided to warm up in front of the hill. The players (Heaney and Brady) who refused Moran's calls to return to the Canal End.
------- I'm amazed at how people forget about the final. In the same way that Moran and Morrison decided to forget about the 2004 final in the run up to September 2006. That was a disaster in terms of management. I firmly believe Kerry were the best team in the country that year but Mayo could have been so much more competitive if the management weren't so naive. The way they prepared Mayo we were on a hiding to nothing. Mayo's full-back line gets cleaned out in 2004. Kerry turn up in 06 with a bigger full-forward and M & M try and play the same way!
------- Most importantly of all Mickey Moran and John Morrison fell out after the final. This seems to be conveniently forgotten. They were a team, one needed the other to be alongside him for them to work well. Mickey Moran met the county board without Morrison. That was the end of that. If they hadn't fallen out and then they were 'sacked' then we could look at things differently, question the county board's agenda. But the fact is simple - there would be no M & M for 2007 regardless.
------ We won an Under 21 All-Ireland in 2006 but anyone who had watched those players closely will be aware that it wasn't individual talent that won the day. It was an incredible collective effort engendered by a motivated management, Noel Connelly especially. It is no conincidence that the only Under 21 player to start the All-Ireland senior final later that year was Keith Higgins. Trevor Howley has come on since. Tom Cunniffe too. Chris Barrett will. Seamus O'Shea will. Ger Cafferkey possibly. Kenneth O'Malley if it wasn't for a bad injury. But serious question marks hang over Barry Moran, Aidan Campbell and the man of the match in that final - Aidan Kilcoyne. Michael Conroy looks like he has flown the nest. Mark Ronaldson is an outstanding footballer but just may suffer at the highest level because of his size. So I don't think people can be too hard on JOM for not bringing through enough of that minor team. They overachieved that year.
------ Ciaran McDonald. Both men erred. But the responsibility is with the manager to handle these types of situations. If we are to be hard on him for anything, I think this is the one issue he failed badly on.
I think we have to be realistic about all these things as we judge how JOM has done. I thought he would have done better myself. There has be no out of the ordinary approaches, nothing that would make you say 'God fair play Johnno, that one worked well'. But it has been far from catestrophic either. I think we have to be realistic in our appraisals of all the surrounding circumstances when we are looking to the future. There have been mistakes made but lets not lose the run of ourselves about Mickey Moran or the Under 21 team from 06.
After reading the points here,i think Mayo have quite an experienced squad when it comes to Playing Croke park. To look at them playing out there on Sat. one would think that they had only met up an hour before the game, messing with the ball in the back line leading to numerous scores for Tyrone, kicking line balls straight out over the sideline. Wrong options been taken in front of the posts and dont get me started on picking the ball up off the ground. The team and managment didn't have the air of confidence or drive to win that game, there seemed to be a lethargic air about the whole set-up. Look at Monaghan/Kerry as a contrast, all the players put their bodies in where it hurt to win the hard ball and most of the time the players took the right options coming out of defence and in front of goals, Why cant Mayo do this consisently at this level. Is it the coaching for a young age to blame for this or is the short passing to be dispensed wit and a team put together where we play more directly and win more games "ugly". JOM has a year left, why not give it to him ? Has the team progressed from last year...... The jury is still out in my opinion. Sam is as far away at the moment as it ever has been in the past 20 years.
Monday August 04 2008
MICKEY Harte smiled like a man who had just struck a private deal with the gods while John O'Mahony wore the bewildered look of somebody who just couldn't figure out why the world was such a stinking place.
Twice in the space of four weeks Mayo had been edged out of major championship games by a point and now O'Mahony doesn't know if his masters on the county board want any more of him.
It wasn't meant to be like this. Having visited so much joy on Galway and Leitrim, O'Mahony was brought back to his native Mayo to close out the All-Ireland deal after final failures in 2004 and 2006. Two seasons on, Mayo's only championship wins were against Cavan and Sligo while they lost to Galway (twice), Derry and Tyrone.
O'Mahony still has a year to run and is keen to see it through but if the board want him out (which they won't if they have a thimble-full of sense) he'll leave quietly and quickly.
Progress
"I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I'm willing to live by my commitments but obviously I'll sit down with the county board and see what they want," he said.
He also suggested that it was a time for Mayo to hold their nerve. His squad are a work in progress and panic trading won't achieve anything.
"I've no problem walking out the door if somebody else can come in and win an All-Ireland for Mayo next year. I've a fair idea that I know what needs to be done so it's important to hold the nerve."
Indeed it is. And if Mayo doubt that, all they have to do is study how Tyrone retained their composure when faced with a three-point deficit (1-7 to 0-7) 15 minutes into the second half of Saturday's third-round qualifier.
The margin should have been greater as Conor Mortimer hoofed high over the bar from a clear goal opportunity in the 47th minute. Still, Mayo were in full flow while Tyrone looked edgy and, at times, even clumsy.
Then all changed. Sean Cavanagh and Enda McGinley increased the supply rate from midfield and, in the space of 10 minutes, Tyrone scored six unanswered points to pull three clear.
Mayo responded and cut two back but their season ended in bright Croke Park sunshine with Trevor Mortimer and Aidan Higgins both feeling aggrieved that they hadn't been awarded a free on the Tyrone 45-metre line after being surrounded by defenders right at the end.
Referee Cormac Reilly ignored their call, deciding instead that Tyrone's swarm approach was perfectly legal. Unquestionably, some referees would have seen it differently and presented Mayo with one last shot at salvation.
But then Mayo had been at the wrong end of another crucial call a few minutes earlier when Ryan McMenamin fouled Conor Mortimer as he sped down on goal. There was a clear overlap and a great goal opportunity but the referee whistled play back and awarded Mayo a free which they pointed.
It was a clear example of crime paying and another perfect illustration of the nonsense of a rule that punishes the fouled party rather than the transgressor.
On such tiny margins are seasons decided. Mayo will feel hard done by but then if you allow others to decide your fate you can expect disappointment. The uncomfortable reality for Mayo was that they scored just 1-3 from play and only three players got on the scoresheet as opposed to eight for Tyrone.
Conor Mortimer and Billy Joe Padden were the only two of Mayo's starting six forwards to make a real impression although there were extenuating circumstances for Pat Harte who had a tummy bug on Friday and who lasted only to half-time. Trevor Mortimer added some clout to the attack in the second half while Tom Parson had some good spells at midfield.
Harte's rejigging of his Tyrone forces, including bringing Cavanagh to midfield, worked well and while it took the attack a long time to establish momentum they finally did enough to pick off a series of match-winning points.
Harte praised his side's energy and also noted that they didn't panic when they fell three points adrift in the second half. It was a position they never expected to find themselves when they raced into a three-point lead after 15 minutes before Mayo's rapid improvement, decorated with a smartly created goal which Conor Mortimer finished, gave them a one-point lead at the interval.
Mayo dominated the first 15 minutes of the second half, during which Tyrone failed to score but they still only found themselves three points behind, which was well within the recovery range once they launched their mission.
They squeezed through to their sixth quarter-final in eight seasons, much to the relief of their manager, who acknowledged that the jigsaw pieces needed to fit tighter together to complete the picture.
"We're not converting enough of our chances. We need to nail more of them and then go on to play with more fluency," he said.
Tyrone missed some excellent opportunities on Saturday with Tommy McGuigan, who kicked four wides, the main culprit. Is Harte worried that so many games in a short space of time might dull the team's edge for their clash against Dublin?
"That's what you buy into when you're in the qualifiers. The alternative is to be watching the action from the sidelines," he said.
SCORERS -- Tyrone: S Cavanagh 0-4 (1f), T McGuigan (2f), C McCullagh (1f) 0-2 each, D Harte, E McGinley, R McMenamin, B Dooher, M Penrose 0-1 each. Mayo: C Mortimer 1-4 (0-3f), A Dillon 0-3 (3f), BJ Padden 0-2.
TYRONE -- J Devine 6; C Gourley 7, Justin McMahon 7, C Gormley 7; D Harte 7, R McMenamin 7, P Jordan 7; R Mellon 6, E McGinley 8; B Dooher 6, B McGuigan 5, Joseph McMahon 6; C McCullagh 7, S Cavanagh 8, T McGuigan 6. Subs: M Penrose 7 for Mellon (47), C Holmes 7 for B McGuigan (47), D Carlin 7 for Harte (54), O Mulligan for T McGuigan (68), D McCaul for McMenamin (74).
MAYO -- D Clarke 7; K Higgins 7, T Cunniffe 7, A Higgins 7; T Howley 7, J Nallen 7, P Gardiner 7; D Heaney 6, T Parsons 7; A Moran 5, P Harte 6, BJ Padden 7; C Mortimer 7, A Dillon 6, A Kilcoyne 5. Subs: T Mortimer 7 for Harte (ht), A Campbell 6 for Kilcoyne (55), P Kelly for Howley (62), R McGarrity for Moran (63).
Is o' mahony for real there he is for the past 2 years telling all the mayo fans that our expectations have to be realastic and in 1 sentence he goes and says that he will walk away if there is somone better out there that can win the Ai ???
For f**k sake less of the Bullshit John this coming from a man that has won 2 of his six championship games mayo supporters don't expect to win the Ai but we do expect progress and from what i can see its backward steps that we are taking. So if you do stay on for the year stop taking us like fools and concentrate fully on the job in hand.
QuoteIs it the coaching for a young age to blame for this or is the short passing to be dispensed wit and a team put together where we play more directly and win more games "ugly". JOM has a year left, why not give it to him ? Has the team progressed from last year...... The jury is still out in my opinion. Sam is as far away at the moment as it ever has been in the past 20 years.
No; I don’t think it can all be put down to faulty coaching at underage levels.
I’d be inclined to put it down to the mindset of the players out on the field.
An unwillingness to accept responsibility due to a fear of the consequences could very well be the reason.
I think if I were a player lacking in self-belief and confidence my first thought when I’d get possession would be to get rid of the ball as if it were a hot potato.
With Mayo the same sort of panic is evident when it comes to attempts at knocking points over.
Certainly, some players are better than others when it comes to kicking for scores from between the 30 and 40m marks but even here the returns are not up to intercounty standard. We tend to get our scores after a long chain of hand passes; passes as often as not that eventually will be intercepted and cleared.
I don’t imagine that flaws in under age coaching techniques are solely to blame for the lack of purpose and direction that seems to afflict our players when they compete at senior intercounty level.
All the coaching in the world will count for nothing if backs don’t mark up tight. The same goes for opposition forwards being left unmarked around the square.
Up front we returned a score of 1-9 the last day. On the open spaces of Croker that is nowhere nearly enough to entertain serious hopes progressing any further.
(It’s no consolation to say that Tyrone’s 0-13 is unlikely to see them over the next hurdle.)
The inability of our forwards to score well and consistently was problem before O’Mahony took over. However, he has done little or nothing to improve the situation.
I’d certainly say that a lack of coaching up through the ranks is partly to blame and so is the obvious lack of natural talent. One cannot fault the manager here.
But a lack of a game plan and of positive guidance from the sideline are matters he should have remedied.
There was a time when a player anywhere on the field would try and pick out the lad with the dreadlocks and the white boots and hoof it at him. What Ciaran did next could be unpredictable and maybe not always effective but he could be depended on to get possession and make space to decide on his next move.
I thought Andy Moran and Conor Mortimer in particular benefited form his ability to pass accurately.
For two games running, Conor got high balls lobbed in on top of him with bigger and heavier opponents standing behind him. Where were the daisycutters he could have thrived on?
Wouldn’t a few roars from the sideline help smarten up those who persisted in crucifying him? I don’t see a dearth of underage coaching as the problem.
Honestly, I am not being vindictive in hindsight here. I am totally at a loss as to why basic faults were not spotted and eradicated.
The man asked for and was given a three year term and I feel the county board is honour bound to leave any interim decision to him alone.
But does he even bother to study the video replays he is said to be so fond of?
You are did right in what you say there LNP. You mentioned the high ball been sent in on top of Mort. and Moran, when Tom Parsons was moved in to the edge of the square with i think 10 mins. to go, only one high ball was sent in in his direction, the result? holding by the Tyrone back and a free in front of the sticks, that was the last high ball that went in. Even when we got two frees in a row in injury time, both frees were only kicked ten yards to a mayoman who was surrounded by Tyrone players. If senior intercounty players can weigh up the correct option when they have a free, well they have no chance in open football. One final point, Mayo players dont look as physically strong or built as most other intercounty teams that played over the weekend with maybe the exceprion of Fermanagh. We need to get some strenght and physicallity into our game for next year.
on mature recollection
i think people are seriously over reacting to what was actully a very ordinary loss of a match by one point wirh 3 or 4 very good shouts for a free that the ref chickened out of in the last 5 minutes to a team who will probably trouble whoever they meet from here out.
Call ing for mass culls of players now is stupid in the extreme we may well have 3 or 4 undiscovered/discarded or maturing gems out there but thats about it . Talent itself is not the problem. All mayo lacked last week was a coherent game plan(guess whose fault that was) and a little composure in front of goal.
there nothing simpler than to write players off but as the management found out it one thing making an example of your best player but another thing to replace him.
what really shows the weakness of the mayo management is the way some players are considered an integral part one week yet are dropped without trace the following. im talking about the likes of Ciaran conroy and Austin here . while im normally not one of austie biggest fans but he must have felt sorely let down not to have been given a run when scores were so hard to come by. that kind of shunning canty help team morale.
So we've all had a few days to reflect and think about the loss and Saturday and look at the season and Johnno's reign so far as a whole. Here are some of my thoughts on the present state of Mayo football.
- There is a rebuilding job on without doubt and people do need to recognise this and adjust there expectations accordingly. Every county (bar Kerry maybe) goes through these periods where older players leave and younger ones must be brought in and take responsibility. These are always difficult and contentious periods. A lot of posters said Johhno inherited a good team and has needlessly taken it apart. Wrong. He inherited a good ageing team. In 06 DB, Heaney, Nallen, Mac, O'Neill, Aiden Higgins were all key members of the squad who were leaders. All of these were around the 30 at the time. Basically they had to go sooner or later as they had reached the peak some could be useful in the mean time but all are in the winter of their careers.
- People say we have the talent of 2 recent AI club winning sides but if we really look at those teams all the best guys are playing already or have retired. There are few hidden gems in Cross or Ballina. If we look at the club championship we can see the power bases shifting a bit with other clubs catching up. This only further reiterates the uncertainty in Mayo football and the need to continue rebuilding.
- As the old lads go through retirement or more controversial measures young lads have to take there place. Not just 20 - 23 year olds but also the 25 - 30 year old established players have to step up to be leaders. This means the Dillons, Gardiners, Mortimers and McGarritys. To my eyes neither of these tasks has been fully completed. If we remember the 96/97 team we all know the above guys were on them but alot were naive young lads at the time it wasn't until Holmes, McHale, Flannagan, McMannamon and co. left the stage that the other guys took on responsibility.
- So in the next year I would be looking to McGarrity, T Mort, Harte and Dillon to really step up to the plate in terms of leadership in the changing room whatever about on field performances. We also need to remember that U21 teams don't directly jump to senior squad. We have got some of these guys through Howley, Higgins, Parsons, Cunniffe have all established themselves as first teamers with Kilcoyne, Campbell and Ronaldson as squad players. This needs to continue and nearly all of the panel bar those who retire should be brought back again next year.
- There is no doubt this group of players isn't fulfilling it's potential - fair enough they ain't good enough to win an AI but a Connacht was gettable this year. Some of that can be attributed to management and some to players not stepping up to the mark in terms of leadership and cool heads. Unfortunately defeat now may be the only way for some guys to learn how to move on.
- Getting rid of Johnno now won't do us a hell of a lot of good. The next lads in would only have to continue rebuilding to progress. Anyone who remembers the Derry game and compares it to the Tyrone game will see some progress albeit slow. I came out of the Derry game with 2 reasons for hope Pearse Hanley at 11 and Barry Moran at 14. Now Pearse went and set us back a bit and Barry got injured which deprived us of an extra option. This year I saw a little more, defence had less of a thrown together look and midfield looks very promising. Hopefully next year will bring some more of this together.
- This year of course was about achievement as well as rebuilding and we didn't achieve enough. When we look at where the problems were most of the year and where they were on Sat it's very strange. All year we where putting up big scores and conceding them as well. By Saturday this had switched. We kept a decent score in backs but our forwards failed us. Why? I would go with player problems rather than management. Johnno managed to get the backs relatively sorted by going back to the past to get the job done for the day (but stuck with Cunniffe who I reckon has a big future). But the forwards failed. They failed to move, they failed to make the right choices, they failed to keep their head and they failed to live up to their potential. Apart from Conor and Dillon they were poor. There is no easy solution.
- On O'Mahonys future if he isn't 100% interested he should go, otherwise he should stay. No one was going to win AI's for us and Johnno is as good as anyone to rebuild the team.
- On players future we can only hope for improvements in leadership from the established players and good performances from the younger ones. It's difficult to say at the moment but I would like the following to be involved in first team affairs next year
Clarke - pure solid
Higgins, Howley, Cunniffe, Gardiner, Barrett - most of them young but all showing good enough football, Gardiner must except responsibility along with Higgins and Howley, Cunniffe played ok in FB a more settled partnership is essential.
Parsons and McGarrity - Parsons to continue good form and McGarrity to bulk up a little and get a clear run with injuries
Dillon, Trevor, Harte, Conor, Barry Moran - A half forward line of the first 3 would be powerful and experienced as long as injuries don't kill Trevor. Conor has limitations but must continue he might thrive with Moran in FF.
Bench/Squad - A Higgins, Pat Kelly (would both add some experience) O'Malley, Conroy and Boyle (if their form improves they could be involved) McLoughlin and Cafferkey (the obvious 2 to see if they work out), O'Shea (if he improves he nay turn into a good backup), BJP (for some experience if struggling around the middle but not as a playmaker), Campbell, Kilcoyne and Ronaldson (hopeful one of these will come from the pack to really push on as a good scoring forward), Durkan and Regan (two lads who were previously involved but didn't seem to make the cut both going well for their respective clubs and worthy of a look).
One joker in the pack could be David Geragthy - not very subtle but causes diffculty in FF against pretty much every club in Mayo, not sure if he's up to the standard but could be looked at for his bull-in-the-chinashop approach we sometimes lack.
Quote from: kevmy on August 05, 2008, 06:26:05 PM
. I came out of the Derry game with 2 reasons for hope Pearse Hanley at 11 and Barry Moran at 14. Now Pearse went and set us back a bit
Aye indeed - the Rosness broke out in him. :D ;D :D ;D
I'm starting to finally get over the massive disappointment that was saturday. The post mortem in the western helped in terms of therapy, hopefully the Mayo news today will see me right and the recovery process will be near complete. The main disappointment I felt about the game against Tyrone was our decision making and our coolness under pressure. No matter how long I am watching Mayo football this never seems to improve. When the heat is on and good calls have to be made, time and time again our lads seem to choose the wrong option. They try to walk it out when it should be kicked, they shoot when there's a free man, they don't shoot and pass to a man who is marked or in a worse position. They don't do this throughout games, but when the pressure is at its greatest they serve up some act that has to tearing your hair out and turning sane people into full scale nut jobs for 70 minutes.
This implosion under pressure must be a coaching thing, I agree fully with James Horans opinion that lads will always go back to their comfort zone (bad habits) when hard questions are asked and that is what our lads do.
Like any team sport, Saturdays defeat wasn't all down to the players, Management don't come out of it in a great light either. I never agreed with the Mac issue and I know going back to it now won't achieve anything but.......... when he wasn't chosen for the panel there needed to be a suitable replacement and that wasn't the case. He could have been the difference in our 2 one-point defeats this year, although he wouldn't have turned us into an All-Ireland winning side. Like alot of posters I feel that's where Johnno got it wrong this year, the tactics the last day were pretty good by and large. we kept Tyrone to 13 points, on the flip side, with BJP and Andy helping out the backs we were short on numbers in the forwards and as a result we only scored 1-9 ourselves, you won't win much doing that!
There is hope though. we have more talent at our disposal than most counties, will we use it correctly is the issue and do we have quite enough to win an All-Ireland I don't know. The likes of Ger Cafferky has to be given a chance, he is to my mind the only real deal full-back in the county and should have been included this year but for some reason wasn't, Parsons will improve as will T Howley and with talent like Aidan O'Shea on the horizon it can't all be bad. Getting all these lads to do the right things when the game is in the melting pot is another days/decades work altogther!
QuoteThis implosion under pressure must be a coaching thing, I agree fully with James Horans opinion that lads will always go back to their comfort zone (bad habits) when hard questions are asked and that is what our lads do.
Powerful stuff, OM; now you’re suckin’ diesel!
I’ll go further and say that the quality of posts on this thread is as good as any I’ve ever come across. There is one hell of a lot of loyal and concerned Mayo posters out there.
James Horan is spot on with his analysis. If in doubt, players will always press the panic button and pass the buck on to someone else. James was as cool a man, under pressure or not, that ever wore the green and red.
What he says about players’ reactions when the pressure is on should be listened to.
When the adrenalin is pumping and the crowd is roaring a player has enough to do staying focussed. The thought of making an ass of himself or of being hauled off in full view of his family and friends in front of the whole nation would be enough to buckle the best of them.
Maybe that’s a little bit dramatic to armchair critics like me but not to some young lad out there under match conditions.
Experienced players can stay cool. They keep their nerves and follow a well-rehearsed game plan. Those without firm directions from the sidelines panic and run about like headless chickens.
Galway and later Tyrone were to keep the cool and tried to play out of trouble when Mayo put the pressure on. Both succeeded.
O’Mahony didn’t make panic a keystone of his coaching; it was there long before he took over. But he has done nothing to eradicate it either. Credit is due to the man for organising the backs to cope with Tyrone’s attack. This was a big improvement over the Galway game. Unfortunately, he seemed to run out of creativity from there onwards.
Why was Tom Parsons up front taking pot shots at goal? The likes of Mick O’Dwyer would have hauled him out to his selected position. He played very well indeed whenever he found himself there.
OM makes a valid point also about BJ and Andy dropping back to help out the defence. Who let them fall back time after time?
A manager cannot be expected to make silk purses outa sows’ ears; he can only make best use of what he’s got. For me, Johnno got the order of things wrong and tried to do things the wrong way around.
Maybe he didn’t have many silk purses to start with but he sure produced a lot of sows’ ears!
At our present rate of progress we could be serious contenders for the Tommy Murphy yet. ;D
Fair enough that we aren't making the best of the players we have at our disposal and the management has to take some of the blame for that but we shouldn't over-react either. We improved this year - slightly and slowly I'll grant you and not as much as we should have - but we still improved. Last year we got hammered by a very mediocre Galway team and then put in one of the most abject performances I've ever seen from a Mayo team against Derry. This year we lost by a point to an improving Galway team and by a point to Tyrone with our forwards playing badly (but we had fairly good performances from 1-9).
So none of this Tommy Murphy/ we'll end up like Cavan talk, simple fact is we underperformed. We have players and management who are both capable of doing better (I wouldn't see AI's for another couple of years anyway but we can certainly improve). We were not outclassed by Galway or by Tyrone, some poor decisions got us here but decision making can improve. We have the guts of a good young team and they can improve.
I have been a bit disappointed by Johnno and I think he has gone too far with his poor mouth act and dropping Mac at the juncture he did was a mistake. Having said that he is still a good, proven, intercounty manager. I don't think anyone next year could swoop in and do a Micky Moran on this team so incremental improvement is what we're aiming for. Give Johnno another year of team building and then let someone else have another crack if he hasn't made it by then.
I agree kevmy, Johnno is still the best man for the job and IMO should see out his 3rd year if he wants to. When I mentioned the coaching issues I didn't mean the current senior team mgt/coaches. They are inheriting lads with bad habits, I really think it is a fundamental thing that has to be looked at and the way our underage teams are being taught. It is very hard to hold a 25 year olds hand in croke park and make him put his toe under the ball when picking it up or asking him to stick his head up and not solo a ball to death but a 14 year old might listen a bit easier. As I said earlier, we have more talent than most and with some new introductions next year we might improve further. Unforunately, the holy grail seems a good distance away at the moment.
Long time reader of the board but I thought I'd register to enter my two cents on our latest setback.
Where do you start?
The simple things to start with that any County can take on board to improve/stop leaking points.......
1) O'Mahony or whoever comes in to replace him has to get rid of this hand passing around your goal mouth. When under pressure or in danger kick. That cost us a few points on Saturday and to watch us dig our own graves by doing something as stupid bewildered me.
2) Never EVER pick up a ball off the ground. Heaney in the 52nd minute was put through by Billy Joe in acres of space and he picked the ball up straight off the ground. What happened next? Tyrone went up the other end and scored. It would be tolerable if it was the only occasion but we must have done it 4/5 times. Schoolboy errors which cost us territory which in turn probably cost us points.
The more difficult stuff
3) We need to identify hard men/leaders if any exist. For too long now we are outmuscled and outfought when the going gets tough. Tyrone hunted in three's and fought with a ferocity that I envied watching on. I don't question the players committment but how I wished for a David Brady or K O'Neill out there. Someone who could whisper into Parson's ear after he missed a couple of points, somebody to inspire the youngest members of the panel. Who have we got to do that role at this moment in time?
4) We're also too soft as a GAA County - we're not street smart for the likes of Kerry and Tyrone. They bully us off the ball, waste time e.g. tie their shoe laces to eat up time, moan at the ref etc........all the cynical things that infuriate me as a spectator - yet if we had a 1 point lead in injury time could you see us playing those kind of tricks? No we'd start hand passing near our own gk. We also need to develop a winning mentality, be headstrong and confident so when the pressure mounts up we're able to cope and not implode.
5) Find some players with a bit of height. For a game that involves hitting high balls into the air our front 3 are a little on the short side. I'd love to see at least 1 forward with a bit of stature and height up there so that our MF and backs can bomb the ball forward instead of having to hand pass it. Parsons did a fine job on Saturday and won plenty of ball in the middle of the pitch but wished we moved him up the field a lot sooner.
6) Call up MAC.
The issue of coaching is an interesting issue. Certainly we have a problem with a lot of our players unable to pass and kick off their weaker sides. It is an issue that we need to address but how to do so?
When players come into county development/minor/Under 21's there is an assumption that they can do all these things. Often they can't and the county coaches have to waste valuable time teaching them a few basics.
I think some of the onus falls back on the clubs to ensure players from Under 10's up are well versed in the rudiments of the game but there can be problems here too. A lot of trainers aren't terribly great coaches, they are willing but not very able and a club only has limited resources. But if a club coaching officer can oversee these sort of things being worked on then I think we would see a level of progress.
But a lot of the responsibility falls back to the players themselves. I've been involved with underage teams in the last few years (and when a few years before when I was underage meself) and I've ran and participated in drills that work on kick-passing and hand-passing, initially off your good side and then off your bad side.
There tends to be two types of attitudes from players in these drills. One type will just be trying to get through it without slicing the ball in four directions of the pitch and will laugh when he does so. The second will be concentrating, trying to use the right technique and cursing himself when he mis-directs the ball. The second type will be the lad who will be kicking off his bad side in a pre-match kick-around and he'll be the lad that will be able to kick successfully off his bad side when he has to in a match. The first type, if he has to kick off his bad foot in a game, will send a hail mary up in the air.
So I think an awful lot comes back to the attitude of the players. Do they care enough to toil away working on their bad foot when most of their teammates won't do that? But if we can convince enough lads how vital it is, then this might start to change.
If we look at the current Mayo team how many ambidexterous lads have we? Alan Dillon is excellent in this regard. So is Billy Padden. Tom Parsons is reasonably good off his bad side and will get better. Jimmy Nallen and Trevor Mortimer are both very confident hand-passing off either side and their kick-passing isn't bad either. But after that I think we've an awful lot of one footed players and it is very easy to wrap these type of players up.
Welcome shakermaker, good first post
Quote from: shakermaker on August 06, 2008, 06:29:27 PM
3) We need to identify hard men/leaders if any exist. For too long now we are outmuscled and outfought when the going gets tough. Tyrone hunted in three's and fought with a ferocity that I envied watching on. I don't question the players committment but how I wished for a David Brady or K O'Neill out there. Someone who could whisper into Parson's ear after he missed a couple of points, somebody to inspire the youngest members of the panel. Who have we got to do that role at this moment in time?
4
This is a huge problem for us. Brady and O'Neill are massive losses in a motivational sense. McDonald from a point of view of grace under pressure. Jimmy Nallen is probably going to go as well. So too might Heaney and Aidan Higgins. That leaves us very, very short of leaders. I think there can be a distinction between leaders and hard men and I think we're lacking in both. Leaders wise Dillon, McGarrity, Conor Mort, Keith Higgins have to step up to the mark.
In terms of hard men/enforcers, we've been lacking a sufficient amount of these since the likes of Colm McManamon, Ray Dempsey, Noel Connelly et al stepped aside. The only two I think we have at the minute who definitely have their names on starting jerseys for 2009 are the two Trevors - Mortimer and Howley. On the panel Seamus O'Shea is made of the right stuff in this regard but who else is out there?
If we look at the top club teams they have enforcers. Crossmolina have Enda Lavelle, Henry McLoughlin, Mark Leonard; Ballaghaderreen have James Kilcullen; Charlestown have Ginger Tiernan and Aidan Higgins. I'm not sure if any of these that aren't already in are of the required talent. Maybe JOM will unearth some from further down the ranks but I won't hold my breath on this one.
A lot of the same applies to points four and five you make. We need to know how to be able to close out games etc. I'm not sure about tall players though. If we can get a strong ball winner at 14 I'd be happy - Trevor Mortimer imo. But it should be a lot easier to work on the type of balls that NEEDS to go into the full-forward line rather than throwing in tall lads just because lads out the field haven't the brains to work out that high ball on top of Conor Mortimer is about as useful as Trevor Welsh's grasp of GAA players.
Quote from: small white mayoman on August 05, 2008, 11:45:13 AM
Is o' mahony for real there he is for the past 2 years telling all the mayo fans that our expectations have to be realastic and in 1 sentence he goes and says that he will walk away if there is somone better out there that can win the Ai ???
For f**k sake less of the Bullshit John this coming from a man that has won 2 of his six championship games mayo supporters don't expect to win the Ai but we do expect progress and from what i can see its backward steps that we are taking. So if you do stay on for the year stop taking us like fools and concentrate fully on the job in hand.
Found that statemet amazing myself as you said he has been dampning our expectations the past two years and then he comes out with a statement like that. As regards whether he stays or goes well he really has to stay otherwise he will be going against all that he has been preaching for the past two years saying that he is building for the future (his 1st mistake imo he should be playing his bext players available and he clearly not been doing this) I myself am not too optomistic about the next few years for mayo football as a lot of you said we could be loosing the likes of Jimmy , Aidan Higgins and maybe David Heaney next year so its going to be very difficult to find replacements for these lads a lot has been said about the Ai winning under 21 team but to be honest i think that the best of that team are allready in the squad . i was thinking last night that things could have been very different this year if it wasn't for the Fecking Aussies, Injuries, and the management weren't so quick to write of Ciaran Mc imagine a team from midfield up of
Tom Parsons ---- Ronan Mc Garrity
Pat Harte Pearse Hanley Alan Dillon
Conor Mortimer Ciaran Mc Trevor Mortimer
we can only dream :(
Without having read all of your impressive looking analysis lads, could i offer a very simple solution to your woes?
Stop Tom Parsons from shooting.
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Without having read all of your impressive looking analysis lads, could i offer a very simple solution to your woes?
Stop Tom Parsons from shooting.
In fairness to Tom Uladh it was not like him he is usually fairly accurate he buried us in a club quatrer final last year scoring 3 or 4 points from play. It was his 1st game in Croke Parke and i'm sure his was nervous what i liked about him the last day was at least he had the balls to shoot again even after the earlier misses he hadn't a lot of options inside and he is definatley going to be one of our main players over the next few years
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Without having read all of your impressive looking analysis lads, could i offer a very simple solution to your woes?
Stop Tom Parsons from shooting.
Thats bull blaming parsons, the young lad 20yrs of age stepped up this year in his madien c\ship and played very well which cannot be said for his captain McGarrity who has been really poor this year. He will be a future all-star
You cannot blame all our woes on Tom's poor shooting. There are worse than him around who are expected to have more expertise where it comes to accuracy than a young and largely untried midfielder.
I honestly feel he was the best player in his sector but he would have served the cause better if he had remained there instead of moving up forward. He was over-anxious and inexperienced and was only doing his best. He is a find for the future; make no mistake about that.
But, going back to James Horan's point; players under pressure will not react wisely unless they have very clear instructions. At the same time you had forwards dropping back to the defence to try and get possession.
All concerned were doing their damndest but were only contributing to the genera confusion.
They should have been given a clear game plan, where everyone would know where he should be and what he should be doing.
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 07, 2008, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Without having read all of your impressive looking analysis lads, could i offer a very simple solution to your woes?
Stop Tom Parsons from shooting.
Thats bull blaming parsons, the young lad 20yrs of age stepped up this year in his madien c\ship and played very well which cannot be said for his captain McGarrity who has been really poor this year. He will be a future all-star
Might be a tad harsh on Ronan there also - thankfully I've never had never had to overcome the rigours of chemotherapy myself but I'd imagine it's not too easy. Perhaps Ronan and management put too much store on his recovery, however I feel Ronan has a hell of a lot to offer Mayo in the future.
Maybe the responsibility of captaincy didn't suit him, I don't know.
However Uladh has a valid point, doesn't matter whether Parson's is 20 or 30, at this level if you can't kick simple points in Croke Park you're in trouble long term, he did good but hardly stands up when compared with McGarrity's maiden year in '04 when Sean Cavanagh robbed either him or William Kirby of an All Star
I feel a lot of it goes back to proper coaching as mentioned earlier, shooting at the wrong time etc.
Personally I think either Ronan or Tom won't prosper until there is a dog in the ilk of DB beside them to do the grunt/defensive/skelping/dirty job.
I wouldn't be blaming either
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Quote from: stephenite on August 07, 2008, 03:31:14 PM
[put too much store on his recovery, however I feel Ronan has a hell of a lot to offer Mayo in the future.
However Uladh has a valid point, doesn't matter whether Parson's is 20 or 30, at this level if you can't kick simple points in Croke Park you're in trouble long term, he did good but hardly stands up when compared with McGarrity's maiden year in '04 when Sean Cavanagh robbed either him or William Kirby of an All Star
I feel a lot of it goes back to proper coaching as mentioned earlier, shooting at the wrong time etc.
The thing about parsons is that he is normally well able to take those scores he scored 2 against sligo as for the future i think he will be well able to do a bit of sledging when needs must. he spent last summer in Boston i think before coming back to play for charlestown and he seriously bulked up he is the main man for Charlestown and can only get better.
Valid point about Mc Garrity as weel stephenite as you said last year he was having treatment for cancer so maybe he came back too early for the rigours of intecounty football.
Almost a week after another dismal end in Croker!
Most of our failings have been well highlighted here....lack of players / lack of stature / lack of forwards / lack of killer instinct / lack of leadership / lack of skill / poor management
All of these in a way are the reasons we fail to achieve. I am loathe to criticize players and management too much because in fairness it is very easy to criticize while sitting on your backside.
In summary my opinion of this season is:
- we really don't have enough raw talent at the moment. I believe this comes in 7-10 year cycles
- same old failings persist
- I have no doubt management have tried their best this season, but I am generally disappointed with whet JOM has brought to the set-up. As I said I don't think we have the talent at present, but I thought at least JOM would bring more fight / level of effort / cuteness into the set up and even if we were loosing, you might feel we were progressing. I clearly feel that none of this has been achieved. Particularly disappointing (esp. after watching the intensity of Monaghan v Kerry on Sunday) that our effort was pedestrian at best. As has often been said before, how much starvation do Mayo need to not have an almighty hunger? Again, I am mindful of being too critical, but there was clearly not enough hunger shown there on Saturday. Indeed I agree it was drummed into us before the match not to expect too much, it was clear among the fans before the match that we would not expect too much, and sure that is what we got! What do we expect?! I have a lot of time for JOM, but this is NOT the attitude to be in during a Championship, re-building or no re-building. I am of the mind, as another poster says here, you should enter EVERY championship expecting to win the title, otherwise forget it.
However, having said all that, and as I said before, I believe the problem in Mayo is a fundamental one and much more deep-rooted. Yes, we all want a quick fix, that is human nature, but until all concerned relaise that a top-down, root & branch analysis of the Mayo football set-up needs to be carried out and proper laid plans put in place to almost GUARANTEE future success, then we will be facing the same disappointment year on year.
I truly believe that our youngsters coming up through the ranks are not being properly coached. I have nephews playing underage in mayo and they will tell you this. They are also playing hurling, and they are getting much more one-to-one skills coaching than in football. One only has to attend underage club and county games to witness that coaching is deficient. Frustrating and sad that you can see all the raw material there but lacking in the coaching and temperament. Sure its no wonder that in fairness, all our best talent over the years have been somewhat flawed.
There is a general tendency I believe to allow the stand-out youngsters progress as if they 'have the talent' whilst the others 'make up the 15 on the team. No player has all the natural talent to make it to the very top, all you have is very good raw-material. Every player should be made perfect what they are good at and improve where they are deficient but also as important, hone their temperament and set-out aspirations and what it means and is expected when playing for their club and county. We also rely too heavily on the stand-out players through the under age teams - a player who is considered average at U-14 or U-16 can be a different specimen altogether at 20. I think this is one of our main issues...if these guys are not also properly coached at an early stage, they will in particular loose interest or initiative and their potential will forever be lost. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe some of the present Kerry team, particularly up to No.9 were likely what one would consider ordinary 'good' players underage, certainly no better that their Mayo counterparts at that age, however I think a lot of them look like they have been selected based on physique and coached extensively in the basic art of defending and doing the simple things right.
Of course there are good coaches and good coaching going on throughout the county, but unless it is consistent and part of a master plan, then we will never really see the benefits at senior county level, no matter who is manager.
We focus here pretty much on the senior team, but the reality is that our under age teams mirror the deficiencies and under-achievement at senior level - that stands to reason. I believe our U21 team of 06 made great use of what talent they had and showed a great will to win that brought them through to success. However, I honestly believe 1 year later, we had one of the best U21 teams I ever saw, however we failed miserably v Laois in the AI Semi.
Easier said than done, but if we could only get together a collective plan together among all the clubs, under-age county teams, colleges and develop a coaching and development charter that all signed up to with the ultimate goal of success for 'Club Mayo', then I think we would almost guarantee future success. Most frustrating is that something like this was unveiled some 4-5 years ago to great fan-fair, only to be later scrapped. We might be reaping the benefits now if it was committed to. But if there is a will, there will be a way.... please god!
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Here's something else you mightn't have realised a Ulaidh uasail.
Tom Parsons was Mayo's fifth leading scorer in the league, after Conor Mortimor, Austin O'Malley, Alan Dillon and Andy Moran.
Each of those four started all seven games. Parsons started three, and came off the bench in two. And he's not even a forward! Any score from a player in single digits is a bonus.
But why look it up when it's much easier to crack wise? Parsons did alright. If we had more like him we might still be in the Championship.
Quote from: Maradona on August 07, 2008, 03:57:17 PM
However, having said all that, and as I said before, I believe the problem in Mayo is a fundamental one and much more deep-rooted. Yes, we all want a quick fix, that is human nature, but until all concerned relaise that a top-down, root & branch analysis of the Mayo football set-up needs to be carried out and proper laid plans put in place to almost GUARANTEE future success, then we will be facing the same disappointment year on year.
I truly believe that our youngsters coming up through the ranks are not being properly coached. I have nephews playing underage in mayo and they will tell you this. They are also playing hurling, and they are getting much more one-to-one skills coaching than in football. One only has to attend underage club and county games to witness that coaching is deficient. Frustrating and sad that you can see all the raw material there but lacking in the coaching and temperament. Sure its no wonder that in fairness, all our best talent over the years have been somewhat flawed.
There is a general tendency I believe to allow the stand-out youngsters progress as if they 'have the talent' whilst the others 'make up the 15 on the team. No player has all the natural talent to make it to the very top, all you have is very good raw-material. Every player should be made perfect what they are good at and improve where they are deficient but also as important, hone their temperament and set-out aspirations and what it means and is expected when playing for their club and county. We also rely too heavily on the stand-out players through the under age teams - a player who is considered average at U-14 or U-16 can be a different specimen altogether at 20. I think this is one of our main issues...if these guys are not also properly coached at an early stage, they will in particular loose interest or initiative and their potential will forever be lost. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe some of the present Kerry team, particularly up to No.9 were likely what one would consider ordinary 'good' players underage, certainly no better that their Mayo counterparts at that age, however I think a lot of them look like they have been selected based on physique and coached extensively in the basic art of defending and doing the simple things right.
Of course there are good coaches and good coaching going on throughout the county, but unless it is consistent and part of a master plan, then we will never really see the benefits at senior county level, no matter who is manager.
We focus here pretty much on the senior team, but the reality is that our under age teams mirror the deficiencies and under-achievement at senior level - that stands to reason. I believe our U21 team of 06 made great use of what talent they had and showed a great will to win that brought them through to success. However, I honestly believe 1 year later, we had one of the best U21 teams I ever saw, however we failed miserably v Laois in the AI Semi.
Easier said than done, but if we could only get together a collective plan together among all the clubs, under-age county teams, colleges and develop a coaching and development charter that all signed up to with the ultimate goal of success for 'Club Mayo', then I think we would almost guarantee future success. Most frustrating is that something like this was unveiled some 4-5 years ago to great fan-fair, only to be later scrapped. We might be reaping the benefits now if it was committed to. But if there is a will, there will be a way.... please god!
What he said - excellent post.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on August 07, 2008, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Here's something else you mightn't have realised a Ulaidh uasail.
Tom Parsons was Mayo's fifth leading scorer in the league, after Conor Mortimor, Austin O'Malley, Alan Dillon and Andy Moran.
Each of those four started all seven games. Parsons started three, and came off the bench in two.
But why look it up when it's much easier to crack wise? Parsons did alright. If we had more like him we might still be in the Championship.
I take your point and freely admit to knowing little about mayo football and the individuals concerned. however, an intercounty footballer who can't realise that he's having a bad day (no matter how good his previous days were or how many balls he has fetched) in front of the posts and adjust accordingly is not a very intelligent chap. at what point does he say to himself "let me draw a defender and hand it to conoreen or let me buy a free..." ?
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on August 07, 2008, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Here's something else you mightn't have realised a Ulaidh uasail.
Tom Parsons was Mayo's fifth leading scorer in the league, after Conor Mortimor, Austin O'Malley, Alan Dillon and Andy Moran.
Each of those four started all seven games. Parsons started three, and came off the bench in two.
But why look it up when it's much easier to crack wise? Parsons did alright. If we had more like him we might still be in the Championship.
I take your point and freely admit to knowing little about mayo football and the individuals concerned. however, an intercounty footballer who can't realise that he's having a bad day (no matter how good his previous days were or how many balls he has fetched) in front of the posts and adjust accordingly is not a very intelligent chap. at what point does he say to himself "let me draw a defender and hand it to conoreen or let me buy a free..." ?
Ask Paul McGrane?
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on August 07, 2008, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Here's something else you mightn't have realised a Ulaidh uasail.
Tom Parsons was Mayo's fifth leading scorer in the league, after Conor Mortimor, Austin O'Malley, Alan Dillon and Andy Moran.
Each of those four started all seven games. Parsons started three, and came off the bench in two.
But why look it up when it's much easier to crack wise? Parsons did alright. If we had more like him we might still be in the Championship.
I take your point and freely admit to knowing little about mayo football and the individuals concerned. however, an intercounty footballer who can't realise that he's having a bad day (no matter how good his previous days were or how many balls he has fetched) in front of the posts and adjust accordingly is not a very intelligent chap. at what point does he say to himself "let me draw a defender and hand it to conoreen or let me buy a free..." ?
i suppose its all about experience Uladh the same thing could have been said about Tommy Mc Guigan the last day as well if Tyrone has lost
Definitely but McGuigan should have been taken off in my view. he's there to score, end of story. Parsons is a midfielder and was the best midfielder on show last week. a simple adjustment to attitude when he burst into the red zone could have won mayo the game.
There'd be noone better than mcgrane to hand the ball to the shooter on an off day. saying you asked.
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 04:17:48 PM
Definitely but McGuigan should have been taken off in my view. he's there to score, end of story. Parsons is a midfielder and was the best midfielder on show last week. a simple adjustment to attitude when he burst into the red zone could have won mayo the game.There'd be noone better than mcgrane to hand the ball to the shooter on an off day. saying you asked.
[/quote]
ye i'd agree with you there but he is a smart player and he will learn in all fairness tom the forwards weren't bursting a gut to make themselves available for a pass which was probably more disappointing
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 04:17:48 PM
Definitely but McGuigan should have been taken off in my view. he's there to score, end of story. Parsons is a midfielder and was the best midfielder on show last week. a simple adjustment to attitude when he burst into the red zone could have won mayo the game.
There'd be noone better than mcgrane to hand the ball to the shooter on an off day. saying you asked.
You see Uladh, this is the thing as well. Shooters aren't that common in the county Mayo either. Tom was as well to have his cut. One of the problems in Mayo in recent years has been fellas abdicating responsibility, giving it to Conor or to Ciarán McDonald, rather than taking responsibility themselves. If I were managing Mayo, I'd give Tom a big slap on the back after that game and say "hard luck on the shooing Tom but don't feel too bad. You went out a boy and came back a man. Well done."
Can't agree ICC, but its all about opinions i suppose. it's the small things that win games at that level
Quote from: Uladh on August 07, 2008, 03:34:39 PM
Didn't realise parsons was so young. however...
at that level of football there must come a time whenever, having kicked 3 or 4 easy wides, a player must take stock and say to himself "let me get the ball into the scoring forward's hands here".
Liam McHale is a good man to spin a story or two.
(Or three or four, if you were ask him nicely!)
Anyway, he once described his first time playing under the managership of the legendary Mick O'Dwyer.
It was a representative trial game; I think it was a case of an All Stars selection playing a game with the All Stars of the previous year. I can't recall those details as it was his first 'conversation' with O'Dwyer that stuck in my mind.
Liam was at midfield and was enjoying his game very much. Anything he went for he got; it was that type of day.
He kept stealing glances at the sideline to see how his display was going down with the maestro. It was hard to tell really as Micko didn't seem to admire Liam's aerial acrobatics in the way he should. No reaction one way or the other.
"I'll go forward and add to the fun," thought Liam.
So he began to place himself around the 40 mark and really enjoyed the proceedings; he had plenty of possession and soon he got bold enough to have a few cracks at the goal himself.
Micko is really getting impressed now," he thought. Every time I have a go he jumps up and down. I'll go for broke the next time and show him what a sharpshooter I am."
Next chance that came Liam's way he began to solo, ignoring those around who were screaming for a pass and he let fly. (Anyone who ever saw Liam trying to solo will agree that it wasn't a pretty sight.)
The ball wound up nearer the corner flag than the goalposts.
As he turned around he saw O'Dwyer was trying to get his attention.
"Good," though Liam. "He wants to give me a few shooting tips."
Off he trots over to the sideline with a big happy grin on his face. O'Dwyer met him halfway.
"Listen, you big, thick f&*ker. If you do that once more you'll find your arse on the bench before the ball hits the ground. You have some of the finest forward sin the country inside you and your job is to get the ball into to them. Now you go and do your job and let them get on with theirs. If Joe Brolly can't score, what chance have you?"
Liam returned to the game, a bit deflated but considerably more focussed.
I wonder if the Messiah ever studied the philosophy of Mick O'Dwyer?
A fairly damning piece here in the Connaught Telegraph. Don't know if its from Liam Horan, John Melvin or Aidan Henry. There's no byline on it online. Maybe someone based in Mayo can put a name on it, I'd say it might be Aidan Henry. Whoever it is certainly has the knives out for JOM and a few players too.
Pressure mounts as O'Mahony faces his toughest ever test « Go Back
Aug 05 2008
SUCCUMBING to an average Tyrone team, bereft of the natural talent and ability that brought the Red Hand County two All-Ireland titles in recent years, Mayo's 2008 championship campaign petered out tamely at Croke Park on Saturday.
Despite the closeness of the scoreboard reading a one-point Tyrone victory at the end, as well as assessments that may appear in other columns this week, Mayo's exit was much like Saturday's attendance at Headquarters – tame and uninspiring.
That judgement may seem slightly harsh or maybe even unfair and I'm sure hundreds will vehemently disagree, but the facts speak for themselves.
As our esteemed manager John O'Mahony himself professed after the Connaught Final reversal to Galway, "Mayo don't do moral victories". There's nothing for them in any case as we are all too painfully aware after decades of near misses, hard luck, and what-if stories.
The reality for this Mayo team, as pointed out by RTÉ pundit Joe Brolly is simple and straightforward – many of the players, individually and the team as a group, are not good enough. This All-Ireland third round qualifier defeat was another example of our many faults and failings, most of which have been identified but not rectified long before the current manager came back on the scene two years ago.
Three points to the good at the midway point of the second half, Mayo lacked the ambition, desire, will or know-how to push on up the gears and across the winning post.
Basic mistakes cost us dear
Picking the ball off the ground on six occasions. Kicking aimlessly across the sideline on five. Carrying the ball headlong and blindly into Tyrone man-mountains time and time again. Shooting wildly in front of the posts. Failing to battle competitively when crucial breaks were there to be won in the final 15 minutes – the list goes on.
Ten scores will barely win any match; a mere five from play a telling indication of Mayo's poverty up front and lack of attacking options. In fact there were no options and no men of steel emerged when the game was in the melting pot.
The management, having wasted a Connaught final still attempting to determine their best 15 after two years in office, opted for five changes in personnel (two enforced due to injury to Ronan McGarrity and Trevor Mortimer) and a further five positional alterations.
But let us be blatantly honest, it was stop-gap stuff from O'Mahony and co.
Trevor Howley did well in defence and will lead that unit into the future. The other switches stank of desperation however.
Take the plight of young Castlebar Mitchels man Tom Cunniffe for example. Cunniffe is a damn good player but not a full-back. He was under pressure from the moment the game began. He was unsure of which turn to take, uncomfortable in the confined space around the edge of the square, and his man had two excellent points on the board after just 18 minutes.
The half-back line was a throw-back to 2004 - Gardiner, Nallen, Higgins.
Midfield brought us back a further seven years with David Heaney manning the area as he did in the 1997 All-Ireland final.
Further up the field Billy Joe Padden returned to the half-forward line, and this despite O'Mahony investing huge amounts of league time in '07 and '08 to moulding the Belmullet man into a number three or six.
He was joined by Andy Moran. Both were utterly disappointing, adding very little to an already limited forward line. Aidan Kilcoyne got the chance he desperately longed for but, not for the first time, allowed it pass him by.
He didn't touch the ball for the opening 20 minutes, never got motoring as we have seen him do from the bench, and Mayo's attacking flair and threat was once again left to Conor Mortimer and Alan Dillon.
There are no excuses for this team. Of the side that started on Saturday, only Tom Cunniffe and the game Tom Parsons have less than three years inter-county experience.
Others, often perceived as being young and inexperienced, should be emerging as leaders at this stage of their development.
Take for example the following players:
David Clarke (fourth championship campaign), Keith Higgins (fourth), Trevor Howley (third), Ronan McGarrity (fifth), Billy Joe Padden (fifth), Pat Harte (third), Andy Moran (fifth), Conor Mortimer (seventh), Alan Dillon (sixth), Aidan Kilcoyne (fourth).
The remainder of the side (Gardiner, Heaney, Aidan Higgins, Nallen) have been donning the jersey for a decade or more and yet most of the above named have yet to come of age (Keith Higgins excluded).
The question now is whether John O'Mahony has either the appetite or ingredients for the rebuilding process that must now commence.
Serious question marks surround the manager and he faces the toughest station in his management career to date.
O'Mahony has never, at inter-county level at least, embraced the concept of building a team.
He inherited a solid Mayo team from Liam O'Neill in the late 1980s and departed when it reached its sell-by date in 1991.
He inherited a solid Leitrim team from P.J. Carroll and departed when surgery was required.
He inherited one of the greatest teams of all time when he took over from Val Daly in Galway and departed when it had run its course.
But that's the task in front of him now. When he reluctantly took the reins for a second time, he was well aware that this day would come. Prior to his second coming as Mayo manager O'Mahony's weaknesses were unidentifiable, even under the highest powered microscope, but in the two years he's been juggling football management and a career in national politics, the cracks have been appearing.
He is no nearer a settled team now than he was when taking charge on his return against Sligo IT in early 2007. In many respects his team of last Saturday was that which Mickey Moran moulded in the winter of 2005/06.
Even down the spine of the team, O'Mahony has failed to nurture new talent to take command of the pivotal positions. James Kilcullen (the entire 2007 NFL campaign), Kieran Conroy, Billy Joe Padden, David Heaney and now Tom Cunniffe have been tried at full-back. Padden, Heaney, David Kilcullen and Trevor Howley have occupied the centre-half back berth and no one has yet made it their own.
Neither has anyone replaced Ciaran McDonald as conductor of the attack and only Alan Dillon has performed consistently in the forward division.
The stakes are high for O'Mahony and the County Board who unceremoniously disposed of Mickey Moran after the 2006 All-Ireland final. Given that he has managed just two championship wins from six with the nucleus of that team and no progress made, the pressure is mounting; the bacon slice blade is sharpened and genuine football followers are growing restless.
After all, the hype machine has been distinctly quiet for the past two years, as the manager requested, but remember this; Mayo have a mere two Connaught titles to show for their efforts since the turn of the millennium and will have to wrestle the title from the holders in Galway next season. Not an assignment Mayo has passed too often in the last 60 years.
Since O'Mahony took charge of Mayo for the first time in 1987, only Pat Holmes has been afforded a third season at the helm after failing to deliver a Nestor Cup in the previous two. He did have a national league in his pocket, however!
:o Fairly hard hitting stuff. Points well made, as are many of the posts here.
If you take a more logical view of Mayo 2005 - 2008 our form has been fairly pathetic bar the Dublin game. That game was as somebody said a freak. But we played superb football in the first half, and in the last 20 minutes. Fellas stood up to be counted as they had never done previously, and have not done subsequently. Early that year the wins against Leitrim and Galway were unimpressive, we survived a "nice" draw against Laois, and scraped through in a replay. They were not up to much. we got luck. Moran and Morrison had a relatively united squad and their luck eventually ran out before they were unceremoniously run out.
I have no doubt that the talent is there for this group of players to be several times better than they are. Remember we nearly beat Galway and Tyrone playing naive football, with an unsettled team. Could you imagine if the intensity levels were upped a notch. If we had the same determination of a Monaghan, a Westmeath or a Fermanagh. We would be right up there near the top table, but without the natural footballers of Kerry.
A backs coach is a must for 2009. A coherent system of play is a must.
But most importantly the manager must look inside his heart and ask himself does he want this? If he does and the politbureau will not ask him to leave, he must ask the same question of every single fella. If they do not want to give every ounce of energy in that green and red jersey they should not get one. We won't win the All Ireland but we can go far if attitudes change. I just cannot understand fellas running around fields and gyms for 9 months and then the lack of effort on the pitch, which is evident of 90% of Mayo matches. I'm sure many will argue that I am being unfair, but ask yourself are the players leaving every ounce of energy they have out on that pitch?
QuoteI'm sure many will argue that I am being unfair, but ask yourself are the players leaving every ounce of energy they have out on that pitch?
If every ounce of energy equals the results this year and last then their is something amiss alright.
I spoke to people after the last match both Mayo and neutrals and they agreed that 10 minutes of proper football would have won the game last Sat. I think a Dub summed up Mayo's current level when I stated that 10mins would have won the match and he turned and said 5mins would have won it!
If Mayo had the inclination or energy required to up the pace for at least 10mins in match's we would be over on another thread discussing how we would set about to hammer Kerry on Saturday ???
Well at least from that article there is a bit of honesty from the local hacks , the rest of the local media are so far up John o' hole its unreal . I just can't figure o' mahony out its like there he was on up for the match last night going on about how the managers are now under more pressure than ever wilth all the press and media coverage and this comes from guy who used to write for the western people and have a sports show and was always having a go at John Maughan an co when he was away for the game like hello kettle i'm pot. i'm just fed up with the way he plays the media and wished he was more honest like for e'g after Mc did his interview why did he not come out and say well no Mc won't be back instead he gave a wishy washy interview on Mwr the following morning saying the panel was open when in fact anyone who knew o'mahony knew this was not the case. ( i'm just using this as one e.g and not trying to start a why was mc not there debate before someone jumps down my neck)
Nice story Lar. Is this the same Mick O'Dwyer that reckoned Liam McHale's best position was full-forward, or a different one? ::)
Those Kerrymen speak with forked tongues I'm afraid. You couldn't be up to them.
while it does delight me to see o'mahony getting it in the neck. the reaction to last week loss is actully hysterical in both meanings of the word . I dont belive the final chapter of mayo season will be written untill we see how tyrone get on versus Dublin . I actually think they will take thenh. last weeks game was a highly intensive affair and all nmayo really did wrong was for the 7th time this year was fail to win a game that was their for the taking. )ironically the only game they did do it in was Vs Kerry)
If we solved all the problems brought up here wed win the next 10 sam Maguire s no Problems and Maybe a few Liam Mccarthys too
holding your own against another top team does not speak of a team with deep fundemental problem or have most of the players 'not good enough' all all ther other shite i have seen on these pages .
The Mayo senior team is as ever a work in progress who with proper management are fit for all the best teams in the country.
what amazes me is the continued support for O'mahony when its obvious that it is the lack of umph and verve that only a good manger can provide
Lets get away from negative and can any one Provide Positive reasons based on his current term Why JOM sould stay in the Job???
Your confusing me Ros one minute your saying the reaction to last weeks loss was Hysterical and then the last sentence you ask the question why John o should stay in the job.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 08, 2008, 11:08:14 AM
Your confusing me Ros one minute your saying the reaction to last weeks loss was Hysterical and then the last sentence you ask the question why John o should stay in the job.
Give him a chance Deel, he will be better able to articulate his opinions when he moves into 4th class
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 08, 2008, 09:32:59 AM
Well at least from that article there is a bit of honesty from the local hacks , the rest of the local media are so far up John o' hole its unreal . I just can't figure o' mahony out its like there he was on up for the match last night going on about how the managers are now under more pressure than ever wilth all the press and media coverage and this comes from guy who used to write for the western people and have a sports show and was always having a go at John Maughan an co when he was away for the game like hello kettle i'm pot. i'm just fed up with the way he plays the media and wished he was more honest like for e'g after Mc did his interview why did he not come out and say well no Mc won't be back instead he gave a wishy washy interview on Mwr the following morning saying the panel was open when in fact anyone who knew o'mahony knew this was not the case. ( i'm just using this as one e.g and not trying to start a why was mc not there debate before someone jumps down my neck)
A bit of honesty at last is right Deel Rover. I would have to agree with what was written in that article. As i have said before, a lot of our senior county panel have been around for a while now...and time after time in the big game situations some of them have been found wanting....yet every year they are brought back, they play well in the league and first couple rounds of the provincial championship, then get caught out in the provincial final, they are dropped and stop gaps are put in place for the really serious stuff i.e last Saturday... these "stop gaps are bought in usually in an unnatural position for them and told "here's your chance"... we wont win any All-Irelands with this going on....and its been happening for as long as i can remember. Tom Parsons has been mentioned here a few times regarding his shooting and i have to agree with some of the comments he will be a great talent for us into the future but, if you blaze two easy chances wide, then surely he has to look for the lay off the next time round.... Tom has been on intercounty and club teams playing a high level for a while now.... if this insight or smart thinking isnt there by now.... it needs to be learned quickly not just be him but players who are a lot more experienced that him....Does this type of coolness under pressure come from the manager or do Mayo's experienced intercounty players have to wise up, do some thinking for themselves and take responsibility when they are on the pitch? Its not like they never saw the inside of Croke Park before last Saturday.
Quote from: rosnarun on August 08, 2008, 11:03:46 AM
last weeks game was a highly intensive affair and all nmayo really did wrong was for the 7th time this year was fail to win a game that was their for the taking. )ironically the only game they did do it in was Vs Kerry)
If we solved all the problems brought up here wed win the next 10 sam Maguire s no Problems and Maybe a few Liam Mccarthys too
holding your own against another top team does not speak of a team with deep fundemental problem or have most of the players 'not good enough' all all ther other shite i have seen on these pages .
The Mayo senior team is as ever a work in progress who with proper management are fit for all the best teams in the country.
what amazes me is the continued support for O'mahony when its obvious that it is the lack of umph and verve that only a good manger can provide
Lets get away from negative and can any one Provide Positive reasons based on his current term Why JOM sould stay in the Job???
Rosnarun did JOM slight you at some stage in the past? In one breath you say there was little wrong with the performance against Tyrone (who you think will beat Dublin) and in the next you're amazed at the support for JOM. You also claim it is rubbish to suggest the Mayo players aren't good enough because they are competitive against most of the top teams. Well Mayo have been beaten by Galway in Connacht for the last two years and knocked out by Derry and Tyrone. They have been hammered by Kerry in their last 3 championship meetings and beaten by Donegal in the NFL final and if you go further back you'll find a similar pattern. Mayo have done nothing these past 5 years to suggest they are better than Derry, Monaghan, Cork, Galway, Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Meath and probably a few more and they definately can't compete with Kerry or Dublin (now). So Mayo will for the foreseeable future be an All Ireland QF level team, regardless of who manages them. They might do a bit better depending on the draw, a bit of luck in the QF or a big performance out of one or two players.
For as long as I've been on this board which covers Mayo's last 3 managers, Mayo posters have bitched and moaned about the manager while rarely putting the players under the microscope. All any manager can do is get his squad playing as close to their potential as possible, he'll never get 100% but he must try to get close, IMO JOM is doing that. It's hardly his fault if IC players can't take easy scoring opportunities when they arise as was the case in both Mayo's losses this year.
Regarding zulu's last paragraph, it's true that JOM isn't at fault with the players shooting on the day itself, but if he didn't know at some stage to change Heaney off Joyce in the Connacht final and tell the players to kick the ball into the square and hope for a break in the last few minutes against Tyrone then there's something amiss there. Why, if McGarrity was fit enough for the bench did he not start? Why bring fellas on with only 10/15 minutes to go against Tyrone. I know I've said it before somewhere but Howley is not a corner back, and Nallen our best player last Saturday says something about the younger players. True O'Mahony can't be to blame for all our ills, but what the hell are they doing on the training ground? I thought we did rather well against Kerry in 05, despite losing, we definitely didn't get hammered.
QuoteAll any manager can do is get his squad playing as close to their potential as possible, he'll never get 100% but he must try to get close, IMO JOM is doing that.
I have no difficulty at all, Zulu, in agreeing with your assessment of a manager's role.
I cannot do the same with your assessment of John O'Mahony's performance to date.
I certainly won't hold him responsible for not winning an All Ireland now or at any time in the future. As you say, a manager can never get his team to give 100% but he must try to get close. I'd say if any manager can feel that he gave his it best shot whenever and wherever he was called on to do so, he can hold his head high and f**k the begrudgers!
I know I have posted a lot of negative comments about O'Mahony on this board but I'd also like to think I gave my reasons for my critical observations and I also gave him due credit whenever I thought it was due.
I do think O'Mahony did a lot of good work for the Mayo cause since he took over but when it comes to tactical nous he was badly outfoxed by Mickey Harte and Liam Sammon before that.
Mayo's shortcomings on the field were painfully obvious on both occasions and have been highlighted so often that I won't go into them in detail. I don't see any better alternative on the horizon either but talk of this does not come into this discussion.
On the matter on hand, I wouldn't dwell too much on individual players' shortcomings either.
I f any player is the best available but somewhat lacking in natural talent, the manager should not be blamed for that man's limitations.
But he has to try and get the best possible contribution from that player. From team selection to the sound of the final whistle he should be asked to use his resources to best effect.
Can this be said of our manager? Only he can say.
If he's happy and can see progress being made next season or if he feels he came up short and will continue to do so is a choice he is best suited to make.
Looks Like John Maughan agrees with you Farrendellin
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Puke football and poor crowds
John Maughan
A well known former inter-county footballer, whose name escapes me at the time of writing, coined the phrase "puke football"! He was referring to the ugly defensive style of play that became de rigueur in Ulster counties in the early noughties. Regrettably that phrase was very much in my mind as I watched some appalling fare in Croke Park last weekend. Teams are just so reluctant to kick the ball these days for fear of giving it back to the opposition. We are consequently presented with a game of handball with practically no creativity and most teams packing their defences for fear of getting caught out by a long kick into a porous defence. Perhaps it is time to look at the "off side" rule in Gaelic football?!
I went to Dublin with so much expectation of a good display of football over two days. Sadly, with the exception of the second half of the Kerry v Monaghan game on Sunday it was poor fare. Saturday's first game, involving Down and Wexford, was extremely poor. When both teams took to the field shortly after a downpour of heavy rain, I was slightly concerned that we might see a lot of slipping and sliding on what can become a treacherous surface in such conditions. I noticed Wexford's best player, Mattie Ford, undergoing a late fitness test with the team physio as his colleagues carried on with a tidy warm up routine on the other side of the field. Mattie had his hamstring heavily bandaged. Things weren't looking too good for the Wexford outfit. This prompted me to have a wager on Down minus two points at even money. I honestly thought Down would swagger through a team that got such a hiding from Dublin in the Leinster final. I couldn't, therefore, believe how poor Down were in this, the first of four games over the weekend at HQ. Mattie, with his heavily bandaged hamstring, kicked a total of seven points over the 70 minutes, reinforcing just how good he really is. Losing my money so early wasn't a good start for me either!
I was astonished at the very paltry turnout of Mayo supporters in Croke Park for the game against Tyrone. It is generally accepted that Mayo's supporters come second only to Dublin for attendance in HQ on big match days. Recessionary times and the current squad's lack of real conviction in themselves in challenging for Sam are, I suppose, the primary reasons for the poor turnout. I was asked by several of those loyal supporters who did make it to Croke Park if I had any news on the team selection prior to the game. No one was quite sure as to how the team would line out. Surely that is one of the big questions with regard to Mayo and the match last weekend. We just don't have consistency of team selection. There were several changes right through the spine of the team from the one that played in the Connacht final. Ok, you might suggest that some of these were forced due to injuries to key players. But I would argue that, if there was a doubt about Ronan McGarrity's fitness and that of Trevor Mortimer's, it is better to have them on from the start rather than bringing them in to try and rescue a game when it is slipping away. Ronan could have done a job for us on the edge of the square for 20/25 minutes as a target man for many of those high balls that were kicked into our small forwards in that first half. In the earlier game Mattie Forde proved that quality shines through no matter what. Obviously Ronan wasn't too badly injured if he was considered fit enough to play very late in the game. He should, in hindsight, have started.
A game we should have won
Nevertheless, this was a game we should have won. We will look back at the total dominance of play that we enjoyed in a 20 minute spell of the second half and yet we could only register the paltry return of three points, with only one of those coming from open play. We just had too many players under-performing in our attack to pull this one off. However, it would be remiss of me not to mention the vintage performance of James Nallen last weekend. He wasn't considered good enough to play in his best position, centre back, last year. Last Saturday he proved he should have been played there and I get the feeling if we had played him at centre-back in this year's Connacht championship we would at least have the Nestor Cup sitting on the sideboard. Peadar Gardiner was another player who proved he should never be considered for any position other than wing back. Defensively he was excellent last weekend and, as in 2004, he completely smothered Brian Dooher
So where do we go from here? Rumour has circulated in the county that John O'Mahony is waiting to sit down with County Board officials to establish if they want him to stay on as manager. I cannot see any reason why the County Board would have him removed at this juncture. He was appointed for a three year spell and I know Johnno will not walk away from the challenge. He advocated, in his post match interview, the importance of the county "holding its collective nerve". I expect he will remain in charge and see out his term of office. Perhaps now is the time to seek his appointment for another couple of years as I believe we have to commence a re-building of our senior team programme.
I think that we should look at several new players for next year's League campaign. We must build for the future now. I expected many more of our underage players to have been involved over the last two years in order to have benefited from the experience of involvement in a senior set-up. We have wasted valuable time throughout this year's National League campaign in giving game-time to players who just don't produce it in summer football. I would much rather see us bring in several young players for next year's National League and give the best of them lots of opportunities to develop into a TEAM. Consistent team selection will assist in developing a pattern of play that could be utilised in the championship. This strategy may result in us dropping down a division or two, but so what? If it takes a couple of years to get a good competitive team together it will be worth the wait.
The greatest bore of a game ever in senior football
I was working (if that's what you call it) at the first match on Sunday, that between Fermanagh and Kildare. I have to admit that the first half of this game was arguably the greatest bore of a game I have ever seen at this level. The first score was registered in the 25th minute. I honestly thought I was about to witness the first inter county game go scoreless in 35 minutes of play. Much to my relief they managed five points between then and half time. The second half was a little better but the less said about this one the better!
The best game of the weekend was that of Kerry and Monaghan. There was a certain amount of "baggage" carried into this game from their encounter last year that ensured a real competitive edge to it from the throw in. The second half in particular was excellent with play ebbing and flowing up and down the field at a huge intensity. Just when you felt that Kerry were getting the upper hand early in the second half, Monaghan again proved what a capable side they are by levelling the game ten points apiece with almost 20 minutes left to play. In the 53rd minute of the match Monaghan missed a glorious opportunity to score a goal. Had they scored at this juncture I feel they would have built up enough momentum to go on and win the game. Instead Kerry went down the field and, in a blink, the man-mountain that is Kieran Donaghy blasted the ball to the back of the net and ended Monaghan's dreams of advancing to the quarter final. Monaghan have a lot of talented footballers and I expect they will have one almighty last effort to come again in 2009. They should as they have a team that is so capable of playing good creative football.
So Kerry are on a roll again. The Paul Galvin saga has been resolved in their favour. They now know that if they progress to the All Ireland final he will be available for selection. I get the feeling that Croke Park officials were just glad to put this issue to rest last week. They didn't have the stomach for another protracted fight and rolled out a new committee to rubber stamp a three month suspension that had been decided well in advance of their arrival in Croke Park to discuss the issue.
Digital Edition
Lads I might be coming across as a JOM apologist here, which I'm not, but I just think fellas are criticizing JOM for some things that are byond his control. And in fairness I don't think he was outfoxed by Sammon or Harte, when a team loses you always look back on missed chances, mis-placed passes, dropped balls and tactical 'mistakes' etc. and wonder what could have been. But all these things happened on the winning side too it's just they won so most people forget about it and move on. Mayo came back and nearly pipped Galway having conceded two first half goals while playing into the wind in the second half, had Kilcoyne kicked his easy 2nd half point chance or Mortimor scored that easy first half free it could very well be Galway posters now questioning Sammon while Mayo lads look forward to this weekend. Likewise had Mayo plyers kicked those early second half scores it might be Tyrone lads questioning MH rather than you lads questioning JOM.
In fairness most of you agree that JOM should be given another year but what Mayo fans should now do is knuckle down and support the squad and management ye have until the end of next year at least.
Quote from: Zulu on August 08, 2008, 03:11:20 PM
Lads I might be coming across as a JOM apologist here, which I'm not, but I just think fellas are criticizing JOM for some things that are byond his control. And in fairness I don't think he was outfoxed by Sammon or Harte, when a team loses you always look back on missed chances, mis-placed passes, dropped balls and tactical 'mistakes' etc. and wonder what could have been. But all these things happened on the winning side too it's just they won so most people forget about it and move on. Mayo came back and nearly pipped Galway having conceded two first half goals while playing into the wind in the second half, had Kilcoyne kicked his easy 2nd half point chance or Mortimor scored that easy first half free it could very well be Galway posters now questioning Sammon while Mayo lads look forward to this weekend. Likewise had Mayo plyers kicked those early second half scores it might be Tyrone lads questioning MH rather than you lads questioning JOM.
In fairness most of you agree that JOM should be given another year but what Mayo fans should now do is knuckle down and support the squad and management ye have until the end of next year at least.
Absolutely agree with you Zula However the thing about o' mahony when he was out of the game was that he used to Write a column for the local newspaper and have a radio sportshow which weren't slow in questioning some of the then managements decesions and thus putting pressure on them. In fairness to John Maughan in his article he is asking John O' Mahony to be giving an even longer term in charge which i think is very fair of him ;)
QuoteRosnarun did JOM slight you at some stage in the past? In one breath you say there was little wrong with the performance against Tyrone (who you think will beat Dublin) and in the next you're amazed at the support for JOM. You also claim it is rubbish to suggest the Mayo players aren't good enough because they are competitive against most of the top teams. Well Mayo have been beaten by Galway in Connacht for the last two years and knocked out by Derry and Tyrone. They have been hammered by Kerry in their last 3 championship meetings and beaten by Donegal in the NFL final and if you go further back you'll find a similar pattern. Mayo have done nothing these past 5 years to suggest they are better than Derry, Monaghan, Cork, Galway, Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Meath and probably a few more and they definately can't compete with Kerry or Dublin (now). So Mayo will for the foreseeable future be an All Ireland QF level team, regardless of who manages them. They might do a bit better depending on the draw, a bit of luck in the QF or a big performance out of one or two players.
For as long as I've been on this board which covers Mayo's last 3 managers, Mayo posters have bitched and moaned about the manager while rarely putting the players under the microscope. All any manager can do is get his squad playing as close to their potential as possible, he'll never get 100% but he must try to get close, IMO JOM is doing that. It's hardly his fault if IC players can't take easy scoring opportunities when they arise as was the case in both Mayo's losses this year.
Sorry for trying to make a slightly complex point in a forum more suited to black and white opinons , i'll simplfy
1) there is no reason why with proper leadership these players can not win an allireland final.
2)JOM is not the man to bring that leadership , He took the Job at the wrong time for the wrong reason
3) the only person who can change the players ans tactics on the field is the manager, the only person pressure can get rid of is the manager ergo if the Tactics /players are wrong it is perfectly valid to call for the managers removal .
As Ive said many time before losing national finals is far from a disgrace. the only thing close to a disgrace Ive seen from mayo in the last few years was last years loss to Derry
yes thats is almost the definition of apologist. I notice no one has come up with Positive reasons for JOM to Stay. surely one of his cult following can come up with something. Theres a Prize for the most Creative answer
QuoteSorry for trying to make a slightly complex point in a forum more suited to black and white opinons , i'll simplfy
Now now Rosnarun just because some of us don't agree with you doesn't mean we are unable to comprehend your indepth knowledge of football.
Quote1) there is no reason why with proper leadership these players can not win an allireland final.
In fairness you did say you'd simplify things but that is plain simple. How many Mayo forwards would make the Kerry or Dublin teams (and don't just throw out names tell us who you'd drop to make way for them)
Quote2)JOM is not the man to bring that leadership , He took the Job at the wrong time for the wrong reason
You could very well be right, I for one don't know enough about the situation to argue different.
Quote3) the only person who can change the players ans tactics on the field is the manager, the only person pressure can get rid of is the manager ergo if the Tactics /players are wrong it is perfectly valid to call for the managers removal .
Have you ever managed a team yourself Rosnsrun? Because if you had you'd know how difficult it is to get a team playing a certain way and almost impossible to play different styles unless you have very good and adaptable players which Mayo don't.
QuoteI notice no one has come up with Positive reasons for JOM to Stay. surely one of his cult following can come up with something. Theres a Prize for the most Creative answer
Yes they have, I can only speak for myself but JOM is doing ok with the talent available to him and that is all that can be asked of him. Mayo have no Fullback, centre back (though Howley may be good), an ok midfield (and you were missing the main ball winner V Tyrone) and no full forward. And none of the forwards is a really top class score getter like Paddy Bradley/Mattie Ford/Stevie O'Neill/Gooch etc.
QuoteSorry for trying to make a slightly complex point in a forum more suited to black and white opinons , i'll simplfy
No need to ros. I twigged straightaway that there were blondes in black skirts around somewhere when you wrote that; probably sitting on the counter in front of you. ;D
Feeney seems to end any speculation in the Mayo News
Mayo GAA Board want John O'Mahony to complete three-year term
The Mayo GAA Board have confirmed that they want John O'Mahony to stay on as Mayo senior team manager next year.
Speaking to the Mayo News last weekend, Mayo GAA Secretary Sean Feeney explained that O'Mahony was appointed on a three year term without review back in late 2006 and that nothing had changed in the interim.
"John was appointed for three years without a review and we're happy to see that through," said Feeney. "That was the agreement and there's no move against John. He's there and if he wants the job, it's his."
It's not quite a ringing endorsement though, is it?
"The Board are four square behind John O'Mahony" is a ringing endorsement.
Quote
if he wants the job, it's his.
Isn't a ringing endorsement. If O'Mahony wants to jump, it seems that would be just fine too.
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
do you not rate o'mahony Orangeman ?
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 13, 2008, 10:20:47 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
do you not rate o'mahony Orangeman ?
I would have done but I think he has lost it - this whole thing with FG seems to have changed him / his approach -
He doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm for the job anymore ?? I could be wrong !
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:26:53 AM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 13, 2008, 10:20:47 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
do you not rate o'mahony Orangeman ?
I would have done but I think he has lost it - this whole thing with FG seems to have changed him / his approach -
He doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm for the job anymore ?? I could be wrong !
a lot of people would agree with you
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 13, 2008, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:26:53 AM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on August 13, 2008, 10:20:47 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
do you not rate o'mahony Orangeman ?
I would have done but I think he has lost it - this whole thing with FG seems to have changed him / his approach -
He doesn't seem to have the same enthusiasm for the job anymore ?? I could be wrong !
a lot of people would agree with you
I hope you're wrong lads, but I would have to agree that mad desire he had 10 years ago doesn't quite seem to be there at the moment. If he does take the job on for next year he will have to make sure he 100% feels he can do the job to the best of his abilities, if not he should walk away as the team will not benefit and neither will his reputation. However, if he does have the hunger and can fit the 2 jobs into his hectic schedule then I still think he is the best man for the job.
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
Who are these better men? ???
Quote from: stephenite on August 13, 2008, 11:59:36 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
Who are these better men? ???
I was a big fan of Johno but since he took the mayo job i have lost faith in him, he has made one bad call after the next. He came into the job saying he would be re-building the panel yet he gave the captaincy to Kev O'Neill who was 34??. The list goes on and on
I think Johnno found himself in a tough spot...we can comment all we want but we dont see what goes on in training and we dont know the roles that players are asked to perform.
Everyone knows mayos problem positions, o mahoney has tried to plus these holes but unfortunately it has not worked out for one reason or another.
Full forward, many people called for his inclusion....he got his chance and he yet again didnt take it, but lets not forget he is not the first choice for this postion, Barry Moran had the makings of a good target man, we await his return to see if it really works out! O Mahoney cannot be blamed for the injury so O'Mahoney was forced to go with Austie who earned his position with good performances in the league.
Centre Back, Well Howley is the man that hopefully can take the reigns or maybe tom cunniffe......it remains to be seen, howleys injury and cunniffes youth can not be blamed on the manager, combine this with Kilcullen opting out!
Midfield MacGarrity and Parsons are looking like they could be a decent partnership....Mac still hasnt regained form after illness and parsons is still young...Seamus o Shea and Pat harte wait in the wings
Full back -- u cant turn water into wine and we have no natural full back, many have been tried but no one has impressed, the manager is doomed if he does, doomed if he doesnt...if he left kilcullen in for last years championship after being roasted in the league final, it would have got it in the neck for not readin the warning signs, now he's gettin it for not including him when in reality kilcullen took the hump after the withdrawal. Billy Joe injured...conroy got roasted....is the mangaer to hastey to discard or is he just seeing the lad cant cut it at that position so doesnt consider him?
Through injuries to key players and giving lads the chance to succeed we have taken a few losses....reallity is he is trying to build a new team but when the young players are roasted who else does he turn too, the old reliables, why cos he wants to win as much as the next mayo man.
I have optimism for the future,
Clarke is a premier keeper
the full back line is the line which needs most attention, it would take uncovering one player to make things a lot easier. K Higgins, A higgins, J Nallen......perhaps Cafferley, maybe young mcloughlin from knock more...any others worth a shout?
Half back line is gonna be heaney howley and cunniffe....this was the line throughout the league unfortunately robbed from us through injury
Midfield Mac Garrity and Parsons
Half forwards, Dillion Harte and Mortimer, established as a strong unit (a fit T mort means as much to us as P Galvin)
Ful Forward, Conor is the only certainty, we are missing one more scoring forward, if only for young pearse hanly
we also have good utility footballers such as billy joe, gardiner, a moran.
We are not as far off as some people are thinkin.
I'll keep the faith
It is very interesting indeed to note the body language when you read what Johnno had to say about his possible third year at the helm and also what Sean Feeney had to say in reply.
First, O'Mahony says something like. "My future is not up to me; it is the call of the county board to either back me or sack me. If it has no confidence in me, I will walk away."
Not one word of enthusiasm for the task in hand and not a dicky about plans for the future either. Does he feel another year under him will be better or worse for the state of Mayo football? We probably will never know as he isn't about to tell us.
What Feeney really said in reply was:
"We won't break our side of the agreement. He's there and if the f**ker wants to stay on he can do so. It's his decision one way or the other. Probably he can't do any worse than he's been doing fore the last two years and anyway we're getting quite a bad reputation for kicking managers out; however, if he can take a hint, he should do so"
Who will make the next move?
Ah lads only 1 person can bring peace and harmony to the Mayo Set up and thats someone from the other side of the fence - BEV for Manager ! :D
And now Back to the beer !
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 13, 2008, 12:45:22 PM
Quote from: stephenite on August 13, 2008, 11:59:36 AM
Quote from: orangeman on August 13, 2008, 10:18:36 AM
Who else wants the job ?? Better men than Johnno have been there and failed !
Who are these better men? ???
I was a big fan of Johno but since he took the mayo job i have lost faith in him, he has made one bad call after the next. He came into the job saying he would be re-building the panel yet he gave the captaincy to Kev O'Neill who was 34??. The list goes on and on
Was just interested in Orangeman's choice of words - who are proven better managers than Johnno (ie) All winning managers that have managed Mayo? There is no one with his track record that's for sure so I just wondered why he thinks that better men than Johnno have failed. They've all failed but why are some better than Johnno?
QuoteYes they have, I can only speak for myself but JOM is doing ok with the talent available to him and that is all that can be asked of him. Mayo have no Fullback, centre back (though Howley may be good), an ok midfield (and you were missing the main ball winner V Tyrone) and no full forward. And none of the forwards is a really top class score getter like Paddy Bradley/Mattie Ford/Stevie O'Neill/Gooch etc.
where please show me. the attitude here now seems to be 'were fucked any way might as well let him stay'.
who would i drop from the dublin team for mayo players? how about the mighty Kevin bonner, the magnificent D Connolly, or little tommy quinn and put in BJP Alan dillion or conor mortimor even pat harte on a good day , do you seriously think that would weaken the dublin team?
as for kerry kinda of hard to argue much against a team on the rise going for a 3 in a row. very few players from any other county would foce their way onto that team at the moment. only possible MINOR weak spot from play would be donnacha walsh but i wouldn't be looking look past paul galvin or Eoin Brosnan if i were to replace him. this is whi we are measuring ourselves against but remember they lost to cork and i'd defintly fancy mayo's chances there.
It just take a good manager to bring it all together . and JOM is not that man. he seems to feel he was forced to take the job lets ease him of the burden
I think JOM should take David Brady under his wing next year with a view of taking over full time in the long run. I think DB would make a fine manager.
Quote from: Bod Mor on August 14, 2008, 01:38:43 AM
I think JOM should take David Brady under his wing next year with a view of taking over full time in the long run. I think DB would make a fine manager.
Sensible words - but you'll be hung for that. ;D
I feel that whilst the likes of DB and Jimmy Nallen could be good managers eventually you really need someone with a proven track record to manage Senior Inter county teams. Whether they cut their teeth with underage county team a la Jack O Connor and Mickey Harte or prove themselves at Senior club level doesn't really matter but they do need more experience than a year as a selector with Johnno or someone else.
I also feel that the Connelly/Holmes combination will be our next management team no matter what happens.
Quote
It is very interesting indeed to note the body language when you read what Johnno had to say about his possible third year at the helm and also what Sean Feeney had to say in reply.
First, O'Mahony says something like. "My future is not up to me; it is the call of the county board to either back me or sack me. If it has no confidence in me, I will walk away."
Not one word of enthusiasm for the task in hand and not a dicky about plans for the future either. Does he feel another year under him will be better or worse for the state of Mayo football? We probably will never know as he isn't about to tell us.
What Feeney really said in reply was:
"We won't break our side of the agreement. He's there and if the f**ker wants to stay on he can do so. It's his decision one way or the other. Probably he can't do any worse than he's been doing fore the last two years and anyway we're getting quite a bad reputation for kicking managers out; however, if he can take a hint, he should do so"
Who will make the next move?
No Lar, that's not
really what either of them said. You've made up a story there, we can all do that if we want. You've just taken a quote from a newspaper/website and decided that it
really meant something else.
Quote from: Tubberman on August 14, 2008, 08:54:41 AM
Quote
It is very interesting indeed to note the body language when you read what Johnno had to say about his possible third year at the helm and also what Sean Feeney had to say in reply.
First, O'Mahony says something like. "My future is not up to me; it is the call of the county board to either back me or sack me. If it has no confidence in me, I will walk away."
Not one word of enthusiasm for the task in hand and not a dicky about plans for the future either. Does he feel another year under him will be better or worse for the state of Mayo football? We probably will never know as he isn't about to tell us.
What Feeney really said in reply was:
"We won't break our side of the agreement. He's there and if the f**ker wants to stay on he can do so. It's his decision one way or the other. Probably he can't do any worse than he's been doing fore the last two years and anyway we're getting quite a bad reputation for kicking managers out; however, if he can take a hint, he should do so"
Who will make the next move?
No Lar, that's not really what either of them said. You've made up a story there, we can all do that if we want. You've just taken a quote from a newspaper/website and decided that it really meant something else.
Okay then; here are the quotes attributed to O'Mahony and to Sean Feeney. Both appeared in the Mayo News and both are being taken directly from Hoganstand.com
To date, neither party appears to have contradicted what has been attributed to them.
John O'Mahony first:
"You might have a three-year term the way the GAA works, but I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I am willing to live by my commitment, but obviously I have to sit down with the county board and see what they want. I'll see how the dust settles. That will be down to other people as well. It won't be my decision, it never is," said O'Mahony.
Now I see that as a plain statement of fact; no more and no less. If the board doesn't want him, he won't be staying in the job. He gave a commitment to Mayo football and he is willing to live by his commitment, unless he is asked to leave
.
John O'Mahony and the county board agreed to a three year term.
Why then should the manager declare his hand so publicly before meeting with the county board for an interim review?
After all, he has left no room for compromise; agreed?
How did Sean Feeney react to this?
Remember Sean would have had the opportunity to study what John has had to say before issuing his reply.
"John was appointed for three years with a review and we are happy to see that through," said Feeney.
"That was the agreement and there's no move against John. He's there and if he wants the job it's his."
Now, Sean appears to be saying that the board will also honour its commitment but if John wants to pull out the decision is his. There is no ringing endorsement of John's work to date or a plea for him to continue the good work. He said the bare minimum required and then passed the onus back on O'Mahony. Remember he has had ample time to consider what the manager said but he only gave a conditional yes to him continuing on.
Both parties issued terse statements. Both said they would honour their respective agreements and each said the question of the manager carrying out his full term was up to the other.
Am I reading too much into this?
I infer from the respective statements that there is a degree of strain between both sides in the matter.
For the record, I have stated in previous posts that I think John O'Mahony should not be replaced and that any decision on the matter was for him to make.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2008, 07:39:51 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on August 14, 2008, 08:54:41 AM
Quote
It is very interesting indeed to note the body language when you read what Johnno had to say about his possible third year at the helm and also what Sean Feeney had to say in reply.
First, O’Mahony says something like. “My future is not up to me; it is the call of the county board to either back me or sack me. If it has no confidence in me, I will walk away.”
Not one word of enthusiasm for the task in hand and not a dicky about plans for the future either. Does he feel another year under him will be better or worse for the state of Mayo football? We probably will never know as he isn’t about to tell us.
What Feeney really said in reply was:
“We won’t break our side of the agreement. He's there and if the f**ker wants to stay on he can do so. It’s his decision one way or the other. Probably he can’t do any worse than he’s been doing fore the last two years and anyway we’re getting quite a bad reputation for kicking managers out; however, if he can take a hint, he should do so”
Who will make the next move?
No Lar, that's not really what either of them said. You've made up a story there, we can all do that if we want. You've just taken a quote from a newspaper/website and decided that it really meant something else.
Okay then; here are the quotes attributed to O’Mahony and to Sean Feeney. Both appeared in the Mayo News and both are being taken directly from Hoganstand.com
To date, neither party appears to have contradicted what has been attributed to them.
John O’Mahony first:
"You might have a three-year term the way the GAA works, but I have never stayed in any job where I wasn’t wanted. I am willing to live by my commitment, but obviously I have to sit down with the county board and see what they want. I’ll see how the dust settles. That will be down to other people as well. It won’t be my decision, it never is," said O’Mahony.
Now I see that as a plain statement of fact; no more and no less. If the board doesn’t want him, he won’t be staying in the job. He gave a commitment to Mayo football and he is willing to live by his commitment, unless he is asked to leave
.
John O’Mahony and the county board agreed to a three year term.
Why then should the manager declare his hand so publicly before meeting with the county board for an interim review?
After all, he has left no room for compromise; agreed?
How did Sean Feeney react to this?
Remember Sean would have had the opportunity to study what John has had to say before issuing his reply.
"John was appointed for three years with a review and we are happy to see that through," said Feeney.
"That was the agreement and there’s no move against John. He’s there and if he wants the job it’s his."
Now, Sean appears to be saying that the board will also honour its commitment but if John wants to pull out the decision is his. There is no ringing endorsement of John’s work to date or a plea for him to continue the good work. He said the bare minimum required and then passed the onus back on O’Mahony. Remember he has had ample time to consider what the manager said but he only gave a conditional yes to him continuing on.
Both parties issued terse statements. Both said they would honour their respective agreements and each said the question of the manager carrying out his full term was up to the other.
Am I reading too much into this?
I infer from the respective statements that there is a degree of strain between both sides in the matter.
For the record, I have stated in previous posts that I think John O’Mahony should not be replaced and that any decision on the matter was for him to make.
I think it may be a case of cold feet from JOM, kinda half looking for a way out but not stupid enough to resign himself. He was hoping he might force a move out of the county board in my opinion.
It was a underhand shot at the county board in my opinion. Feeney saw this for what it was and just played a straight bat on it. No ringing endorsement, just telling JOM and the county that the agreement will continue as specified.
I've said all summer that as long as the season continues we should see how things work out before getting too hot under the collar.
Now with the season out of the way I have to admit I'm cautiously optimistic enough about next year. I just hope the manager is enthusiastic. He should be because his legacy is at stake here.
Good things we have at the minute
- a top class goalkeeper
- pacey, running backs (Keith Higgins, Tom Cunniffe, Peadar Gardiner, Chris Barrett)
- tough tackling defenders (Trevor Howley, Aidan Higgins)
- Experienced defenders but will they wait? (Jimmy Nallen and David Heaney)
- Two very capable midfielders in Parsons and McGarrity but we need an improvement from the latter or else we need to look at Seamus O'Shea
- a top class half-forward line in Dillon, Harte and Trevor Mort
- a very good corner-forward in Conor Mortimer
- Some very good options in a range of positions such as Andy Moran, Billy Padden, Barry Moran
So what we need
- a strong, pacey and purposeful full-back
- another scoring inside forward
- a 'go to' man at full-forward
- a bit more combatitiveness in our running backs and our midfielders
Of the assets we have at the minute JOM can't say that he unearthed someone from nowhere (this doesn't happen too often anyhow) but he can take an element of credit for paving the way through for Howley, Cunniffe, Barrett, Parsons and the formation of the half-forward line.
He hasn't found the answer at full-back and full-forward but at least we have what looks like a settled enough team from 5-12 if injuries aren't a factor. That's something we didn't have post 2007 so that has to be marked down as progress. But in 2009 Ger Cafferkey HAS to be given an extended run in the league. Sink or swim.
Give Barry Moran another go at full-forward. I'm afraid the Austie option looks dead in the water much as I'd love to say otherwise.
The straightforward formation of the team out of the way probably the most disappointing aspect of the defeats this year was the lack of intelligence in players on the ball, the lack of a game flexible game plan suited to the needs of the way the game can change over 70 minutes. At times we look fierce naive. Its something you would hope that JOM might be able to influence but that hasn't looked the case so far. Time will tell if that changes.
We haven't 'cute hoors' of players that look like they know how to close out a game. I know some of that comes from experience but you have to start somewhere and managerial and coaching influence plays a big role. At the minute we are the same oul Mayo - have to be four or five points a better team to actually win a game.
And one last point, if Conor Mortimer does nothing else this winter than practice and practice taking goal chances when they present themselves, then it won't be a wasted winter.
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on August 15, 2008, 07:42:23 AM
I think it may be a case of cold feet from JOM, kinda half looking for a way out but not stupid enough to resign himself. He was hoping he might force a move out of the county board in my opinion.
It was a
underhand shot at the county board in my opinion. Feeney saw this for what it was and just played a straight bat on it. No ringing
[/quote]
He is good at those allright
Quote from: Barney on August 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
so which player that trained all winter not to mention dedicate most of the last few years didn't bother to try against Tyrone?. you can't make a statement like that gaint the members of the team with out names . Name names Just to protect the innocent
Quote from: rosnarun on August 15, 2008, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: Barney on August 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
so which player that trained all winter not to mention dedicate most of the last few years didn't bother to try against Tyrone?. you can't make a statement like that gaint the members of the team with out names . Name names Just to protect the innocent
Need to find a reliable freetaker off the ground and to take 45s, its embarrasing a county team doesnt have a quality freetaker off the floor, look at galway and kerry last week sheehan stuck 5 frees and meehan the same including a massive 45 from his wrong side. A good free taker is a serious weapon
QuoteI think it may be a case of cold feet from JOM, kinda half looking for a way out but not stupid enough to resign himself. He was hoping he might force a move out of the county board in my opinion.
It was a underhand shot at the county board in my opinion. Feeney saw this for what it was and just played a straight bat on it. No ringing endorsement, just telling JOM and the county that the agreement will continue as specified.
For me R&GS has summed it all up there -and with a lot less bullshit than I can use myself!
I don't intend to follow this line any further but to finish up I'd say Feeney has proven to be the shrewder by far of the pair of them.
I agree that he played a straight bat. This was after having time to study JOM's statement.
In effect he said: The board will not move against the manager. We will honour our commitments. The job is still his if he wants it- and the decision to go or to stay is up to him to make.
As Iolar, and now R&GS said, there was no ringing endorsement there, not by a long shot! There was definitely no plea to continue on with the good work.
Quote
I just hope the manager is enthusiastic. He should be because his legacy is at stake here.
I cannot agree more.
I believe that he is sincerely trying to do his best for Mayo football.
He would also like to end his managerial career with an All Ireland success for his native county; that would be the icing on his personal cake for him. I sure hope he succeeds.
There is another legacy that he would like to protect and entitled to worry about.
His Dail seat would be a lot more secure if he can finish up his management stint on a fairly high note.
Now why would an experienced politician and football manager who is referring to a meeting to discuss his managerial future, come out with the following?
".....but I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I am willing to live by my commitment, but obviously I have to sit down with the county board and see what they want . .......It won't be my decision, it never is,....."
Is that not putting it up the county board? An underhand shot as DR put it.
He is certainly expecting a barney when they meet up. (No; not OUR Barney!) ;D
But I too am cautiously optimistic about the future.
There are lot of good young players about and we have had several good sides at u21 level, with one going all the way. Good players don't become bad players overnight and, if JOM stays aboard, he will be entering a third straight year of working with them and I'd expect a bit more concentration form him in his last attempt to establish that legacy.
BTW: Barney, I like Peter Ford but I can't see him being asked in. That would be a reflection on the manager's ability.
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 15, 2008, 11:20:12 AM
Need to find a reliable freetaker off the ground and to take 45s, its embarrasing a county team doesnt have a quality freetaker off the floor, look at galway and kerry last week sheehan stuck 5 frees and meehan the same including a massive 45 from his wrong side. A good free taker is a serious weapon
Good point, we badly need a top quality free taker so that when we get a free within the 45m line it's more or less a guaranteed point; we haven't had this since Maurice Sheridan.
Actually only Kerry have a really reliable free taker at the moment, all the others have a tendency to have off days.
Quote from: Barney on August 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
Well whatever the fcuk ye do, don't let him next nor near the forwards ;)
Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on August 15, 2008, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: Barney on August 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
Well whatever the fcuk ye do, don't let him next nor near the forwards ;)
:D :D :D :D
Quote from: MacDanger on August 15, 2008, 03:26:20 PM
Quote from: Davitt Man on August 15, 2008, 11:20:12 AM
Need to find a reliable freetaker off the ground and to take 45s, its embarrasing a county team doesnt have a quality freetaker off the floor, look at galway and kerry last week sheehan stuck 5 frees and meehan the same including a massive 45 from his wrong side. A good free taker is a serious weapon
Good point, we badly need a top quality free taker so that when we get a free within the 45m line it's more or less a guaranteed point; we haven't had this since Maurice Sheridan.
Actually only Kerry have a really reliable free taker at the moment, all the others have a tendency to have off days.
Sheehan has been well known to have the odd off day! Trying not to be biased here but I would put himself and Meehan on a par. I dont think its any coincidence either that both tend to take their kicks off the ground.
Quote from: MaroonAndWhite on August 15, 2008, 04:36:52 PM
Quote from: Barney on August 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
Unless there is a seachange in attitude from players and management next year will be the same old story.
The first thing that should be done is ask Peter Forde to come in to coach the backs.
Looking at the Tyrone game it is embarassing the lack of effort there on the part of so many players. A million miles from where they should be. Its time for some to shape up or be shipped out.
Well whatever the fcuk ye do, don't let him next nor near the forwards ;)
There's another proud Mayo ex Manager doing nothing important at the moment ::)
I dont count talking sh1te on Radio as being important. :D
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on August 15, 2008, 07:42:23 AM
He should be because his legacy is at stake here.
That's being overly dramatic, imo. At the latter end of a 25 year span managing IC teams at various levels, Johnno's legacy is well formed at this stage. A late failure to make Mayo competitive in the All-Ireland race, at a time when they're in transition, will be further mitigated when considering his time consuming political responsibilities, imo.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2008, 07:39:51 PM
"You might have a three-year term the way the GAA works, but I have never stayed in any job where I wasn't wanted. I am willing to live by my commitment, but obviously I have to sit down with the county board and see what they want. I'll see how the dust settles. That will be down to other people as well. It won't be my decision, it never is," said O'Mahony.
Now I see that as a plain statement of fact; no more and no less. If the board doesn't want him, he won't be staying in the job. He gave a commitment to Mayo football and he is willing to live by his commitment, unless he is asked to leave
.
Am I reading too much into this?
No, it looks like a plain statement of fact to me also & unstantiated speculation about the
other people aside, all appears not to be rosey in garden Mayo.
In the opinion of the Mayo posters here, is Mayo County Board split along political lines at this stage? On the law of averages, there's bound to be one or two discontented FF'ers who aren't too happy with the way 'things' panned out. ???
Hi Spectator, good post there.
I have not heard any indication that there might be a political split amongst the board members. I have a few Mayo-based sources that tended to be reliable in the past but nobody has mentioned hearing of any sort of split.
With regard to O’Mahony’s legacy, there are a few unique factors that set him apart from other successful managers.
For one thing, he won All Irelands alright but not with his own county.
If anything I’d imagine it puts him under even more pressure in Mayo to deliver the goods for his own people. There are no political votes to be gained in Galway or in Leitrim either; there are plenty at stake in Mayo and he will need every one he can get to make his Dail seat secure. Besides, he has stated that this coming year will be his final one as an intercounty manager. What better way to finish off on a high note than by winning Sam for Mayo?
In fairness to him, I think he genuinely wants All Ireland success for Mayo as well as for possible political advantage. From what he has repeatedly said in recent times, I believe his is genuinely motivated to do his best for his county.
I don’t doubt but that he is doing his best; it’s what he is doing that worries me! ;D
Quote from: stephenite on August 14, 2008, 01:51:21 AM
Quote from: Bod Mor on August 14, 2008, 01:38:43 AM
I think JOM should take David Brady under his wing next year with a view of taking over full time in the long run. I think DB would make a fine manager.
Sensible words - but you'll be hung for that. ;D
I feel that whilst the likes of DB and Jimmy Nallen could be good managers eventually you really need someone with a proven track record to manage Senior Inter county teams. Whether they cut their teeth with underage county team a la Jack O Connor and Mickey Harte or prove themselves at Senior club level doesn't really matter but they do need more experience than a year as a selector with Johnno or someone else.
I also feel that the Connelly/Holmes combination will be our next management team no matter what happens.
Jesus, I hope your wrong about the next management Stephenite. Always had my grave misgivings about the current set up but ....... I ll put it this way. I m fast approaching middle age and these wasted 3 year stints are begining to take its toll on me. Being cautioned about patience and spun tales of transition and rebuilding cuts no ice after the years of bullshit I ve witnessed in this county. We need a proper coach in the Moran mould, not a former player who deserves a cut - though for some reason I believe Nallen would make an excellent coach, his superior intellect i suppose. Not a club man that got lucky either. Success at club level largely down to being lucky enough to have the best players at a given time, and luck should have no part in becoming a county manager.
QuoteNot a club man that got lucky either. Success at club level largely down to being lucky enough to have the best players at a given time, and luck should have no part in becoming a county manager.
thats being ver harsh on tommy Jordan
at least it was sligo that fell for it this time
I still think hed make a better fist of it than the blueShirt . at least he would bee intersted and not only oingit because of the terrinle pressure put on him to tke the job
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
For one thing, he won All Irelands alright but not with his own county.
To be fair to Johnno he came to prominence when he managed Mayo to All-Ireland U-21 success back in 1983, against Derry, after a replay in Irvinestown. Not a senior title granted, but a much celebrated All-Ireland for Mayo nonetheless ...
I was there that day along with a busload from Ballagh and cheered on the green and red, as we also had Rossie-at-heart Durks and Mayo-at-heart Pat Towey on the starting 15.
Afterwards, following a successful negotiation of the border somewhere around Swanlinbar - I never heard the Ballagh 'Mayos' so silent before or since - the convoy eventually made it back to The Square in Ballagh for a short stop before proceeding on to Mayo proper, Johnno being manager and all.
There was a local aul fella, a fanatical Rossie who was partial to a dropeen o' the cratur ... to say he'd drink liqour out of a dirty welly'd be to put too fine a point on it but anyhow, before too long a bottle was produced and the cup filled. One of the local GAA club officials, a fanatical Mayo follower, made a beeline for mo dhuine and grandly proferred the cup with the mischevious words "Great Day for Mayo".
As normally that'd be akin to an incitement to war, everyone held their breath for a few seconds before, beady eyes fixed on the contents of the cup, the genial reply of "Great Day for Ballagh!" came back as half the Clarke Cup worth of the finest Paddy rapidly disappeared down yer man's throat. ;D
Thus was Johnno's homecoming after leading Mayo to All-Ireland U-21 success in ' 83. God only knows what a senior win would be like ;)
QuoteTo be fair to Johnno he came to prominence when he managed Mayo to All-Ireland U-21 success back in 1983, against Derry, after a replay in Irvinestown. Not a senior title granted, but a much celebrated All-Ireland for Mayo nonetheless ...
Jeez forgot that
that puts him right up there with Pat holmes.
A ballghaderren man there was no need to explain with such blind faith the only other place you could have been from was Kilmovee
QuoteTo be fair to Johnno he came to prominence when he managed Mayo to All-Ireland U-21 success back in 1983, against Derry, after a replay in Irvinestown. Not a senior title granted, but a much celebrated All-Ireland for Mayo nonetheless ...
I never thought of the '83 success either. It's a harsh reality than if the vast majority of Mayo people were asked about it, you'd be met with a blank stare.
Mayo supporters will remember the '89 final appearance or will have been told about it at the very least.
All will certainly know about JOM bringing All Irelands to Galway, not once but twice. Galway had been waiting quite a long time as well; over 30 years since the three in a row side had delivered their last one. I'd safely say John's name will be long remembered and his legacy will be cherished there.
In our county, his Galway exploits will only add to the pressure on him.
I 'd go back a few years more than Moysider; for me polite people would stick the word, 'mature' in front of the 'middle-aged' tag. I am about the same age as Enda so if you'd regard him as 'mature,' you might say the same about me!
(Is Kenny a mature anything? I wouldn't bet too much on it!)
I'm also fed up of false dawns, three year stints and managers winding up at loggerheads with the county board. I accept what some posters point say about us giving Galway and Tyrone close runs; on paper we came close both times but to entertain any serious hopes of ever going further, we'd need to have put both out of sight long before the end of the game.
As things stand, even if JOM stays on, he will have strained relations with the board and be under continual pressure from the supporters. If he hasn't much to show for the last two years, what can he hope to achieve when he's under pressure from all sides and his final year is ticking away?
It's been one hell of along, fruitless wait for me (and for Enda too, I'd bet!) and I don't see much light at the end of my particular tunnel.
Maybe, just maybe, next year will be very different. ;)
Quote from: spectator on August 15, 2008, 07:02:26 PM
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on August 15, 2008, 07:42:23 AM
He should be because his legacy is at stake here.
That's being overly dramatic, imo. At the latter end of a 25 year span managing IC teams at various levels, Johnno's legacy is well formed at this stage. A late failure to make Mayo competitive in the All-Ireland race, at a time when they're in transition, will be further mitigated when considering his time consuming political responsibilities, imo.
I don't think I'm being overly dramatic. Every team he has been with he has made progress with. Won the All-Ireland Under 21 with Mayo in 83, brought the seniors to the final in 89, Leitrim's Connacht title in 94, Galway's All-Irelands in 98 and 01. Add in club success with St Brigid's in Roscommon and with Ballaghaderreen in 2006. The point has been made by posters that a lot of these teams were set up for JOM to do well with (not something I'd necessarily agree with).
Taking this three year Mayo term was the first time he took a team with no really bright future ahead of them. Failure to make progress with them next year will mean that his last management stint wasn't a success and he'll change from being up there with Micko in terms of continuous success with every team to a man who was shown up for not being able to make a good go of things when things weren't set up ideally for him. It will be a case of 'JOM was a very good manager but . . . '. Prior to this term he only ranked behind Mick O'Dwyer in terms of best managers of the last 30 years in a lot of people's estimations.
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on August 16, 2008, 01:31:59 PM
I don't think I'm being overly dramatic. Every team he has been with he has made progress with. Won the All-Ireland Under 21 with Mayo in 83, brought the seniors to the final in 89, Leitrim's Connacht title in 94, Galway's All-Irelands in 98 and 01. Add in club success with St Brigid's in Roscommon and with Ballaghaderreen in 2006. The point has been made by posters that a lot of these teams were set up for JOM to do well with (not something I'd necessarily agree with).
Taking this three year Mayo term was the first time he took a team with no really bright future ahead of them. Failure to make progress with them next year will mean that his last management stint wasn't a success and he'll change from being up there with Micko in terms of continuous success with every team to a man who was shown up for not being able to make a good go of things when things weren't set up ideally for him. It will be a case of 'JOM was a very good manager but . . . '. Prior to this term he only ranked behind Mick O'Dwyer in terms of best managers of the last 30 years in a lot of people's estimations.
What success did ballaghadreen have R&Gs ? ;)
Quote from: spectator on August 15, 2008, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
I was there that day along with a busload from Ballagh and cheered on the green and red,
Names and addresses please ..... >:( :D
Fair enough R&GS.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 16, 2008, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: spectator on August 15, 2008, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 15, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
I was there that day along with a busload from Ballagh and cheered on the green and red,
Names and addresses please ..... >:( :D
Yeah, we were all on good terms in Ballagh back then with little rancour - it was after all a good five years before you-know-what ;)
Maybe it's time to rethink the critisism of O Mahoney after today's events
Ya and it just shows what a quality player Peadar is. He kept Dooher in his pocket and today he was man of the match
Big differance was it appears that Mayo got it right tactically, man marked Tyrones forwards, (most of them anyway), also broke even (won) at midfield.
Quote from: joemamas on August 16, 2008, 05:18:31 PM
Maybe it's time to rethink the criticism of O Mahoney after today's events
not particularly we still lost to Tyrone , and maybe just maybe if o'mahony handled things a Little differently we might have won not lost 2 championship matches this year :(
Maybe we're not as bad as we think though. Still agree with Deel Rover and we could be in a semi if things were handled differently. If is a big word at times though... :(
QuoteMaybe we're not as bad as we think though. Still agree with Deel Rover and we could be in a semi if things were handled differently. If is a big word at times though...
I couldn't agree more.
My gripe with O'Mahony all along has been that he wasn't making best use of what he had. All you could ask of any manager is that he'd settle on a side at some stage of the year and make changes only as needed to give his players a chance of developing an understanding between them.
They would need to have some sort of tactical blueprint or game plan and have options to adapt their approach if this was needed.
If the players genuinely don't have enough talent to go far, the manager can't be blamed. But he can be if fails to make best use of what he has.
'If' is a big word, sure enough.
I doubt we would have beaten Tyrone if they played as well as they did today.
That is something we will never know.
jom got the tactics right with tyrone. pillar didn't. if we had been playing the dubs today we could have won had they played that poorly. However ifs dont win all irelands. But we are obviously not as bad as some have said over the last few weeks
who do all you JOM critics want as manager, He is not above critisism especially for 2007, however look at the alternatives;
Maughan, a complete and utter failure, who obviosuly has a huge ego and little personel skills, and add to that his imcompetence tactically.
Pat Holmes/ Noel Connolly, unproven, however Pat holmes did manage Mayo for two years, one in which we were beaten by Sligo in connacht c/ship. Not sure what they offer that JOM does not.
Peter Forde, not exactly Mr. personality, has a tendency to rub a lot of players the wrong way judgeing from reports from Sligo and Galway. Is he the type of manager that wil nuture along new talent , my guess is no.
However, if I were the Mayo county board , I would insist that JOM takes control for two years as one year right now is a joke especially in the face of a major rebuilding.
Quote from: joemamas on August 16, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
who do all you JOM critics want as manager, He is not above critisism especially for 2007, however look at the alternatives;
Maughan, a complete and utter failure, who obviosuly has a huge ego and little personel skills, and add to that his imcompetence tactically.
Pat Holmes/ Noel Connolly, unproven, however Pat holmes did manage Mayo for two years, one in which we were beaten by Sligo in connacht c/ship. Not sure what they offer that JOM does not.
Peter Forde, not exactly Mr. personality, has a tendency to rub a lot of players the wrong way judgeing from reports from Sligo and Galway. Is he the type of manager that wil nuture along new talent , my guess is no.
However, if I were the Mayo county board , I would insist that JOM takes control for two years as one year right now is a joke especially in the face of a major rebuilding.
Just on the Maughan business, yeah he screwes up tactically a couple of times in big days but Johnno does it on smaller stages. Maughans record and achievements as mayo senior manager is way superior to Johnno´s . What Lennon said about Elvis could be borrowed here. ´Before Maughan there was nothing´
As for ego, personality etc etc Johnno would easily hold his own.
Quote from: joemamas on August 16, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
who do all you JOM critics want as manager, He is not above critisism especially for 2007, however look at the alternatives;
Maughan, a complete and utter failure, who obviosuly has a huge ego and little personel skills, and add to that his imcompetence tactically.
Pat Holmes/ Noel Connolly, unproven, however Pat holmes did manage Mayo for two years, one in which we were beaten by Sligo in connacht c/ship. Not sure what they offer that JOM does not.
Peter Forde, not exactly Mr. personality, has a tendency to rub a lot of players the wrong way judgeing from reports from Sligo and Galway. Is he the type of manager that wil nuture along new talent , my guess is no.
However, if I were the Mayo county board , I would insist that JOM takes control for two years as one year right now is a joke especially in the face of a major rebuilding.
go home mrs o mahony your son is well past his best before date and if someone on the county board had the balls and good of the mayo football ay heart they'd tell him so .
no reappraisal necessary on todays events. much as it pains me to say it but i told you so last week.
hope you all heeded me and ran down to paddy powers ,
I of course didn't as i don't hold with that sort of thing
Quote from: ildanach on August 16, 2008, 07:19:48 PM
jom got the tactics right with tyrone. pillar didn't. if we had been playing the dubs today we could have won had they played that poorly. However ifs dont win all irelands. But we are obviously not as bad as some have said over the last few weeks
I will go 50% of the way with you on the first sentence.
JOM has the backs much better organised than he had in Castlebar and it showed. Credit is due to him here.
But a major point I have been annoying everyone here about is my belief that a good manager will strive to get the best out of his players; he can only do so much but he can and should have a big input into what goes on out on the field.
What about the forwards? There was no sign of a game plan here; it seems everyone was left to fend for himself. I won't go on again about the failure to react when Mayo's approach was clearly not working and that Tom Parsons wasn't moved in to the edge of the square until it was too late. I very much doubt that Mickey Harte would have been so slow to react.
I also agree that Mayo are not as bad as they appeared to be over the last two games.
That's what bugs me. With a little bit of cuteness on the sideline, we could have done a lot better.
Quote from: rosnarun on August 17, 2008, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: joemamas on August 16, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
who do all you JOM critics want as manager, He is not above critisism especially for 2007, however look at the alternatives;
Maughan, a complete and utter failure, who obviosuly has a huge ego and little personel skills, and add to that his imcompetence tactically.
Pat Holmes/ Noel Connolly, unproven, however Pat holmes did manage Mayo for two years, one in which we were beaten by Sligo in connacht c/ship. Not sure what they offer that JOM does not.
Peter Forde, not exactly Mr. personality, has a tendency to rub a lot of players the wrong way judgeing from reports from Sligo and Galway. Is he the type of manager that wil nuture along new talent , my guess is no.
However, if I were the Mayo county board , I would insist that JOM takes control for two years as one year right now is a joke especially in the face of a major rebuilding.
go home mrs o mahony your son is well past his best before date and if someone on the county board had the balls and good of the mayo football ay heart they'd tell him so .
no reappraisal necessary on todays events. much as it pains me to say it but i told you so last week.
hope you all heeded me and ran down to paddy powers ,
I of course didn't as i don't hold with that sort of thing
Rosnarun,
your a jackass, its time to go back to hogan stand. That is about your level of intelligence.
What is your alternative.
Quote from: joemamas on August 17, 2008, 03:27:24 AM
Quote from: rosnarun on August 17, 2008, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: joemamas on August 16, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
who do all you JOM critics want as manager, He is not above critisism especially for 2007, however look at the alternatives;
Maughan, a complete and utter failure, who obviosuly has a huge ego and little personel skills, and add to that his imcompetence tactically.
Pat Holmes/ Noel Connolly, unproven, however Pat holmes did manage Mayo for two years, one in which we were beaten by Sligo in connacht c/ship. Not sure what they offer that JOM does not.
Peter Forde, not exactly Mr. personality, has a tendency to rub a lot of players the wrong way judgeing from reports from Sligo and Galway. Is he the type of manager that wil nuture along new talent , my guess is no.
However, if I were the Mayo county board , I would insist that JOM takes control for two years as one year right now is a joke especially in the face of a major rebuilding.
go home mrs o mahony your son is well past his best before date and if someone on the county board had the balls and good of the mayo football ay heart they'd tell him so .
no reappraisal necessary on todays events. much as it pains me to say it but i told you so last week.
hope you all heeded me and ran down to paddy powers ,
I of course didn't as i don't hold with that sort of thing
Rosnarun,
your a jackass
It's hard to argue with your logic. ;D
The level of performance by Tyrone yesterday is in no way comparable to the level they performed to against Mayo.
JOM had his tactics spot. The players just didn't push home the deal. It appears that Pillar didn't even have a look at the video.
We have competed with Tyrone over the years. If our players had their work ethic and mental strength we would be a much better team.
Nobody appears to be calling for the managers head in Mayo. Supporters are making constructive comments about failures. He is not immune to criticism and is getting a far fairer chance than most who have hold the job. Seeing that he looks like he will stay on a bad league should not lead to howls for his head before the championship. Once he confirms he is staying on he should have the full support of all and review his performance critically next Summer.
Quote from: Barney on August 17, 2008, 09:45:43 AM
The level of performance by Tyrone yesterday is in no way comparable to the level they performed to against Mayo.
JOM had his tactics spot. The players just didn't push home the deal. It appears that Pillar didn't even have a look at the video.
We have competed with Tyrone over the years. If our players had their work ethic and mental strength we would be a much better team.
Nobody appears to be calling for the managers head in Mayo. Supporters are making constructive comments about failures. He is not immune to criticism and is getting a far fairer chance than most who have hold the job. Seeing that he looks like he will stay on a bad league should not lead to howls for his head before the championship. Once he confirms he is staying on he should have the full support of all and review his performance critically next Summer.
I dunno Barney. As I ve said before i would not like next years league to be a series of auditions. If so you may write off 09 Championship right now. You ll find Galway will play as many of this years Championship team in as many matches as they can in the league next spring and end up with a settled team to smack us aside in Salthill if we dont have a solid unit developed by then. We can only do this if we tog our strongest team available for every league match. have MacDonald involved from March onwards and try to integrate a couple of new players and get rid of the baggage that will never measure up and have been given too many chances already. Our 09 backs will still be a selection from Heaney, Nallen Higgins etc with maybe a McLoughlin or a Cafferkey pushing - but there is no ready made full backs out there so there is no point in the nonsense selections of the last 2 Springs. If we put as much effort into developing Barry Moran and O Se the younger into full forward line options we may get more reward than wasting time looking for the perfect fullback. The absence of a classic fullback not hindering Tyrone s or Kerry s progress.
moyside I agree 110% about experimentation in the league. I would hope that at least 10 -12 of the team starting our first league game will be good enough to be there come the first championship game. Mind you this was the position taken in year 1 with JOM and back-fired badly. Really all I believe is that once re-appointed he gets full support throughout next year with no sniping.
2009 sees Connacht/Leinster on the one side of the draw. We seem a million miles away from winning an all Ireland and we probably are but Galway will be thinking that way, why shouldn't our lads go and make one almight effort.
Ever since he came back to the job in 2006, I have had some sympathy for the manager. It goes without saying that he is trying to do his best and, human nature being what it is, he is far more likely to get a boot up the bum than a clap on the back from those around him.
But that is as far as I can go; the man is a consenting adult and he knew what he was taking on when he took over the reins.
QuoteHe is not immune to criticism and is getting a far fairer chance than most who have hold the job.
I'd agree with both points here: Is the state of Mayo football better or worse since he took over almost two years ago? He took on the job for three years. Can he possibly do any better next year what with time ticking away and having a strained relationship with the county board?
Back in 2006, before the final Jack O'Connor had major problems with Dara O'Se and the Gooch. He played Declan O'Sullivan when most Kerry people felt he did not deserve a starting place. He knew O'Sullivan had the beating of James Nallen, so he stuck him in, thereby depriving Cooper of the captaincy. O'Se it seems is an awkward hoor at the best of times but O'Connor did what he felt was best for Kerry football.
He didn't refer to his problems in any way until he hinted at them when his book came out.
Contrast that with the way JOM handled Ciaran Mac; could anyone say Mayo was better served by Mac's absence?
Quote
have MacDonald involved from March onwards and try to integrate a couple of new players and get rid of the baggage that will never measure up and have been given too many chances already.
Is that really likely to happen? ;D ;D
I'd certainly agree that a more settled team towards the end of the league would be a good thing. However some experimentation is needed. FF and FB and I'd like to see Barrett and a couple of more backs tried out.
As regards Mac he's not going to get better and great player and all that he is bringing him back in now would not be a step forward. Sooner or later we were going to have to go without him, it was always going to be painful but I feel now that the break is made we must carry on without him.
When a team is pretty much sorted I think a more aggressive attitude is needed in some aspects from midfield up. More harrying of the opposition backs, just look at Tyrone the last day. Also the messing around with ball in our backline has to be cut out it seemed to be gone for a few years but has sneaked back in over the last couple of years.
If someone could dig up another scoring forward and post him to J O Mahony, Fine Gael House, Ballgh, Co Ross then I'd be fairly happy as well.
On a side note before the Tyrone game the Mayo lads were warming up into the hill and since I was down that end of the pitch I was keeping a close eye on them, trying to see who would start, who was looking up for it etc. One big thing I noticed was Conoreen taking frees of the ground. He took a couple from the edge of the D and they were sailing over. I wouldn't have much faith in him putting them over from there out of the hands so maybe if Johnno told him to go back to the drawing board and take them off the ground for a few months over the winter to see how he'd get on.
By the way I'm pleased enough the way most posters aren't wildly calling for JOM's head, just because previous managers got shafted and thrown out is no good reason why it should happen to him
I think in fariness to JOM, he tried his best to have a settled team for the league however, through injuries and poor play the team had to change....
during the league, he had a consistant 4 of six defenders(heaney, Howley, higgins,Cuniffe) and four of six forwards(dillon, moran, o'malley, mortimer)....parsons and Mac at midfield and clarke in goal the prob was that injury robbed us of a couple of key players....whilst some of the players who did well in the league (AOM,Conroy and Boyle) got roasted versus galway.
I think JOM knows his strongest team...i dont think he has had the opertunity to field this team once in his two years in charge!
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 18, 2008, 10:45:56 AM
Ever since he came back to the job in 2006, I have had some sympathy for the manager. It goes without saying that he is trying to do his best and, human nature being what it is, he is far more likely to get a boot up the bum than a clap on the back from those around him.
But that is as far as I can go; the man is a consenting adult and he knew what he was taking on when he took over the reins.
QuoteHe is not immune to criticism and is getting a far fairer chance than most who have hold the job.
I'd agree with both points here: Is the state of Mayo football better or worse since he took over almost two years ago? He took on the job for three years. Can he possibly do any better next year what with time ticking away and having a strained relationship with the county board?
Back in 2006, before the final Jack O'Connor had major problems with Dara O'Se and the Gooch. He played Declan O'Sullivan when most Kerry people felt he did not deserve a starting place. He knew O'Sullivan had the beating of James Nallen, so he stuck him in, thereby depriving Cooper of the captaincy. O'Se it seems is an awkward hoor at the best of times but O'Connor did what he felt was best for Kerry football.
He didn't refer to his problems in any way until he hinted at them when his book came out.
Contrast that with the way JOM handled Ciaran Mac; could anyone say Mayo was better served by Mac's absence?
Quote
have MacDonald involved from March onwards and try to integrate a couple of new players and get rid of the baggage that will never measure up and have been given too many chances already.
Is that really likely to happen? ;D ;D
Not likely. If Mickey Harte picked his team using a calender as the basis of selection Brian Dooher would nt be considered for selection. Back from a serious injury at 33 and straight into the team when fit again. I wonder did he have to attend a trial match? It amazes me how some people are happy to leave McDonald behind before we actually have to. We ll be long enough without having the option of having him.
Quote from: Bomber2312 on August 18, 2008, 11:53:41 AM
I think in fariness to JOM, he tried his best to have a settled team for the league however, through injuries and poor play the team had to change....
during the league, he had a consistant 4 of six defenders(heaney, Howley, higgins,Cuniffe) and four of six forwards(dillon, moran, o'malley, mortimer)....parsons and Mac at midfield and clarke in goal the prob was that injury robbed us of a couple of key players....whilst some of the players who did well in the league (AOM,Conroy and Boyle) got roasted versus galway.
I think JOM knows his strongest team...i dont think he has had the opertunity to field this team once in his two years in charge!
Maybe so but he clearly saw Conroy, Boyle and Austin as part of his strongest team. Does that fill you with confidence as to how he might see his strongest team again next Summer come championship?
Feel free to tell me to mind my own (kerry) business but do any of the Mayo lads feel that JOM is in anyway compromised by his political day job? Is there a danger in a man who's crust is in the gift of the people dealing with hard decisions. In particular in squad formation. I'm not suggeting this because of anything that I've heard or anything but lets be honest there have been other politicos who've made decisions for funny populist reasons.
QuoteMaybe so but he clearly saw Conroy, Boyle and Austin as part of his strongest team. Does that fill you with confidence as to how he might see his strongest team again next Summer come championship?
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way. For instance, you should remember the case of Kieran Conroy when he first played at full back. According to the Great Man, he was a natural for the position. His instincts told him he had found the right candidate for the role. That's more or less what the Mayo News reported anyway.
F**k him and his instincts!
QuoteNot likely. If Mickey Harte picked his team using a calender as the basis of selection Brian Dooher would nt be considered for selection.
What about our own Jimmy Nallen and David Heaney? You could also add in Jayo Sherlock, Dara O'Se and Francie Bellew. What about Padraig Joyce?
All the while, Mac is playing brilliant club football. His age wasn't the reason for his being dropped.
QuoteFeel free to tell me to mind my own (kerry) business but do any of the Mayo lads feel that JOM is in anyway compromised by his political day job?
Frank, I think the reverse hold true. He has done his political career no favours by his endless tinkering about and by the way he handled the sacking of Ciaran McDonald. I have yet to come across a single pundit or analyst of any sort who says he handled the affair well.
He took the third seat for FG last time out and any drift in votes could land him in deep doodoo next time around.
Agreed, the way he dealt with McDonald will not earn him any votes.
QuoteI think the reverse hold true. He has done his political career no favours by his endless tinkering about and by the way he handled the sacking of Ciaran McDonald.
Lar I don't know why you keep harping on about McDonald. There was no guarantee he would play for the county, and his absence is not the difference between Mayo and Sam this year. I think it was seriously mishandled. I would loved to have seen Mc play for Mayo this year but after 2 years out I think he would have needed a full winters football behind him to be up to the pace of championship football.
Effect on his political career? I don't think so. Remember the General Election was held 4/5 days after one of our worst thrashings ever at the hands of Galway. The man with the reins - JOM!
Quote
Quote
Maybe so but he clearly saw Conroy, Boyle and Austin as part of his strongest team. Does that fill you with confidence as to how he might see his strongest team again next Summer come championship?
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way. For instance, you should remember the case of Kieran Conroy when he first played at full back. According to the Great Man, he was a natural for the position. His instincts told him he had found the right candidate for the role. That's more or less what the Mayo News reported anyway.
F**k him and his instincts!
F**k you and your twisting (well, you started it).
Yet again you're putting words in someone elses mouth and reporting it as fact. O'Mahony never said Conroy was a natural for the full back role and that isn't what was reported either - it's the slant you decided you put on it. This is the actual quote:
Quote"Sometimes you just get a hunch about a fella and I just had a hunch about him playing in the full-back position. He also marked David Brady in a challenge game against Ballina recently and did well."
O'Mahony decided to take a chance to see if Conroy fitted the full back position. It looked good for a couple of games, but in the end, it looks like Conroy is only suited to playing against a particular style of player. Now if we're going to start fcking and blinding the manager for trying players out, he's in a no-win position from the start.
Mortimer speaking a lot of sense for once:
QuoteWe want Johnno to stay
Moran and Mortimer wantO'Mahony to remain on
Daniel Carey
Mike Finnerty
JOHN O'Mahony has said he will make a decision on his future as Mayo senior football manager 'in the next couple of weeks'.
The Ballaghaderreen clubman said he would be meeting with his selectors and with County Board officials and holding 'a debriefing' on the events of 2008, which ended with Mayo's defeat to Tyrone on the first weekend in August.
"I'll be making a decision in the next couple of weeks, I'd say, and meeting different people," O'Mahony told The Mayo News last night (Monday)."
"In the next week or fortnight, what we'll be [getting] into is a debriefing on the year, with my selectors [and] with the County Board. So [things] will move on from there one way or the other."
O'Mahony said he had spoken to his selectors, Tommy Lyons and Kieran Gallagher, but had not had a formal 'meeting' with his management team about the year gone by.
Meanwhile, Mayo footballers Andy Moran and Conor Mortimer have both said that O'Mahony should remain at the helm. Moran said he had 'no doubt at all' that the manager should stay on.
The issue was discussed by a number of panel members on the train west the day after Mayo lost to Tyrone.
"Coming down on the train – there was about 12 or 13 of us – and I think there was a general consensus," said Moran. "There's no doubt about it, they all wanted him to stay."
Mortimer echoed those sentiments, and added that the bulk of responsibility for Mayo's championship exit lies with the players.
"There's no point talking about managers anymore," he said. "We're the only county that have [had] four managers within five years. There's something going wrong somewhere. There has to be something wrong ...
"Once you go out over that line, it's 15 guys – or 20 guys, because there's five guys coming in. They're the guys who are going to win the game or lose the game. It's nothing to do with the manager or the selectors or whoever else is there."
Comments by Mayo GAA Board officials last week suggested that O'Mahony would be returning for the final year of his three-year term.
County Board Secretary Seán Feeney said that if O'Mahony 'wants the job, it's his', while Chairman James Waldron said the Kilmovee native 'has the full backing of the entire County Board'.
Quote from: Barney on August 19, 2008, 12:01:06 PM
Mortimer speaking a lot of sense for once:
QuoteWe want Johnno to stay
Moran and Mortimer wantO'Mahony to remain on
Daniel Carey
Mike Finnerty
JOHN O'Mahony has said he will make a decision on his future as Mayo senior football manager 'in the next couple of weeks'.
The Ballaghaderreen clubman said he would be meeting with his selectors and with County Board officials and holding 'a debriefing' on the events of 2008, which ended with Mayo's defeat to Tyrone on the first weekend in August.
"I'll be making a decision in the next couple of weeks, I'd say, and meeting different people," O'Mahony told The Mayo News last night (Monday)."
"In the next week or fortnight, what we'll be [getting] into is a debriefing on the year, with my selectors [and] with the County Board. So [things] will move on from there one way or the other."
O'Mahony said he had spoken to his selectors, Tommy Lyons and Kieran Gallagher, but had not had a formal 'meeting' with his management team about the year gone by.
Meanwhile, Mayo footballers Andy Moran and Conor Mortimer have both said that O'Mahony should remain at the helm. Moran said he had 'no doubt at all' that the manager should stay on.
The issue was discussed by a number of panel members on the train west the day after Mayo lost to Tyrone.
"Coming down on the train – there was about 12 or 13 of us – and I think there was a general consensus," said Moran. "There's no doubt about it, they all wanted him to stay."
Mortimer echoed those sentiments, and added that the bulk of responsibility for Mayo's championship exit lies with the players.
"There's no point talking about managers anymore," he said. "We're the only county that have [had] four managers within five years. There's something going wrong somewhere. There has to be something wrong ...
"Once you go out over that line, it's 15 guys – or 20 guys, because there's five guys coming in. They're the guys who are going to win the game or lose the game. It's nothing to do with the manager or the selectors or whoever else is there."
Comments by Mayo GAA Board officials last week suggested that O'Mahony would be returning for the final year of his three-year term.
County Board Secretary Seán Feeney said that if O'Mahony 'wants the job, it's his', while Chairman James Waldron said the Kilmovee native 'has the full backing of the entire County Board'.
Mortimer's comments make a nice change alright, good to see him showing some maturity and acknowleding that the players have to take the main share of responsibility. The buck may stop with the manager but the players did not perform on the day and it's encouraging to hear that most of the lads seem to accept this.
I dont think he saw austin, conroy or boyle as part of his strongest team, for a start, everyone would be giving out if he didnt give these lads a chance so he had to do it! fact of the matter is Austin is deputy to Barry Moran, moran had no year with injuries so when austin had a decent league there was no alternative but to stick with him, after the defeat to galway, in an effort to remain in the championship O'Mahony had to go with alternatives. about boyle and conroy, both had average league campaigns, but the fact of the matter, they are square pegs for round holes with neither being naturals for the positions, however what are the alternatives???? Namin a mayo back six is not an easy task!
Quote from: Barney on August 19, 2008, 08:32:00 AM
QuoteI think the reverse hold true. He has done his political career no favours by his endless tinkering about and by the way he handled the sacking of Ciaran McDonald.
Lar I don't know why you keep harping on about McDonald. There was no guarantee he would play for the county, and his absence is not the difference between Mayo and Sam this year. I think it was seriously mishandled. I would loved to have seen Mc play for Mayo this year but after 2 years out I think he would have needed a full winters football behind him to be up to the pace of championship football.
Effect on his political career? I don't think so. Remember the General Election was held 4/5 days after one of our worst thrashings ever at the hands of Galway. The man with the reins - JOM!
Barney, I was picking up on a point made by Moysider when he mentioned Brian Dooher as an example of a player who is still playing well and who is well over the 30 mark. I added quite a few others names to his to point out that there is no reason to automatically assume that a player in his 30s is past it.
There's no dig at JOM in what I was saying here; I didn't make my point very well, I'm afraid.
On this aboard and elsewhere, posters have said that Mac was past it or that at best he should come in as an impact sub. Given the examples above, I don't think that argument can be sustained.
In any event, JOM made a decision to drop Mac, as is his right but for any one else to claim age as a factor in getting rid of him is incorrect. I doubt his judgement but I always accepted his right to pick whoever he chooses.
I hope you will accept this clarification.
As for his political career, he got in as one of three FG candidates. Mickey Ring and Enda are not going to be shifted. This is the only constituency where FF trail FG in seats. Cooper Flynn has rejoined the party and FF will go all out to secure the third seat.
O'Mahony cannot afford to drop any crucial first preferences; is it fair to say he is not likely to gain any more either?
Quote from: Tubberman on August 19, 2008, 08:56:53 AM
Quote
Quote
Maybe so but he clearly saw Conroy, Boyle and Austin as part of his strongest team. Does that fill you with confidence as to how he might see his strongest team again next Summer come championship?
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way. For instance, you should remember the case of Kieran Conroy when he first played at full back. According to the Great Man, he was a natural for the position. His instincts told him he had found the right candidate for the role. That's more or less what the Mayo News reported anyway.
F**k him and his instincts!
F**k you and your twisting (well, you started it).
Yet again you're putting words in someone elses mouth and reporting it as fact. O'Mahony never said Conroy was a natural for the full back role and that isn't what was reported either - it's the slant you decided you put on it. This is the actual quote:
Quote"Sometimes you just get a hunch about a fella and I just had a hunch about him playing in the full-back position. He also marked David Brady in a challenge game against Ballina recently and did well."
O'Mahony decided to take a chance to see if Conroy fitted the full back position. It looked good for a couple of games, but in the end, it looks like Conroy is only suited to playing against a particular style of player. Now if we're going to start fcking and blinding the manager for trying players out, he's in a no-win position from the start.
This is the third serious allegation you have levelled against me.
I answered the first two as comprehensively as I could and so far nobody, including you has seen reason to challenge either of my replies.
In the second case, I went so far as to post the statements of both JOM and of Sean Feeney and I invited readers to draw their own conclusions. You, so far, are the only one to insist that both statements should be taken literally.
Maybe you might answer one question for me?
If both persons meant exactly what they stated, who is going to decide JOM's future as county manager?
"It won't be my decision, it never is," said O'Mahony.
"He's there and if he wants the job it's his," was Feeney's reply.
Riddle me that one if you can.
You are now telling me that "yet again" I am twisting other people's words. (Yet again?? Was there another time?)
I picked out his judgment on Kieran Conroy as just one instance of his poor personal judgment calls. It was just one in a "litany of bad decisions" as another poster had described it.
Anyway, he followed his hunch and gave young Conroy an extended run in the position. (Had a hunch or followed his instincts? I suggest you are really nitpicking here.)
Poor Conroy got an almighty roasting from critics but Johnno followed his hunch; until he had to drag the lad off the pitch against Galway.
If the above statement is wrong, I invite any reader to correct me.
F**k him and his instincts! I really thought the exclamation was a giveaway here.
I have always been scrupulous to give O'Mahony credit t where it is due.
Ever since he came back to the job in 2006, I have had some sympathy for the manager.That was stated in one of my recent posts. But I also said:
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way.Tubberman: I stand over what I have posted. Any inferences you appear to draw are your business.
Quote from: Bomber2312 on August 19, 2008, 12:35:49 PM
I dont think he saw austin, conroy or boyle as part of his strongest team, for a start, everyone would be giving out if he didnt give these lads a chance so he had to do it! fact of the matter is Austin is deputy to Barry Moran, moran had no year with injuries so when austin had a decent league there was no alternative but to stick with him, after the defeat to galway, in an effort to remain in the championship O'Mahony had to go with alternatives. about boyle and conroy, both had average league campaigns, but the fact of the matter, they are square pegs for round holes with neither being naturals for the positions, however what are the alternatives???? Namin a mayo back six is not an easy task!
One thing that puzzled me during the league was when Barry Moran was brought on during ....... was it the Kerry or Donegal match in Castlebar? .. he was brought in on the wing and hauled off again. I would have expected him to have been used as afull forward but Austin was left there. i interpeted this as a vote of confidence in Austin and I believe they were going to go with Austin until his wheels came off. Moran looked a prospect in 07 at 14 so I would have expected them to go with another similar type of ball winner when Moran was injured. O Se maybe and see him there for a game or two.
Conroy was worth a try but by the Donegal match he looked limited to marking the Quirkes of this world and had no role to play against the Galway forwards. Boyle should never be played any further back than 5. He has a future and remembering him as a young player I thought he would be a forward. His high energy buzzsaw play should not be ignored but he has nt the physique or the radar to mark.
I remember stating here after the Laois challenge in Ballyhaunis that Aiden higgins and JamesNallen should both start championship. I got ate. I think Nallen only got the start because Howley was injured. I think it was obvious that our best backs last may were Higgins, Higgins, Nallen Howley, Heaney and O Malley.
I remember the election well, (my first time voting) I cannot see FG getting as much votes the next time round. Surely they will get rid of Enda beforehand and it should lessen the amount of FG votes in Mayo. JOM might lose a seat. Not saying FF will gain one but I can't see FG doing as well as the last time. FF might have their house in order in C'bar by then as well.
Could nt give a s**** about votes and seats to be honest. Football is more important than that freak show and how Mayo football got wrapped up with the funeral attending brigade is not something that concerns us. Mayo football is the priority and if its not Johnno s main priority then it should be.
Anyway back to the main matter in hands. We ve been obsessed for a while with discovering a full back, FF, MF enforcer etc, etc. Tyrone have shown us that make do and a bit of èxperience, harte and whatever goes a long way. Meanwhile in Mayo we hope for the perfect players to come along. One of my gripes with Johnno is that he made much of the last 2 years too complicated. Our defensive game v Tyrone showed what can be done when the selection, match ups and tactics are right - and they were fairly obvious. So why could something similar have been done v Galway 07/08. Its not that we dont know Galway. It also show that we can do ok defensively and our forwards are the biggest concern. McLoughlin, Cafferkey and James Burke look ready to step up as backs. Forwards anybody???
QuoteForwards anybody???
Pearse Hanley come back from Botany Bay
Quote from: Barney on August 20, 2008, 08:37:18 AM
QuoteForwards anybody???
Pearse Hanley come back from Botany Bay
I heard he is back Barney.
Not sure if he will feature for Ballagh for the rest of the season but he is back in Mayo.
I think Brisbane Lions are out and didnt qualify for the finals so Pearse is home for a while.
I'm sure though he's not back for good Abbeysider?
I think that story fist appeared about 3/4 weeks ago; he was coming back for an extended break but he intends to return to OZ for the new football season. I can't recall exactly what he was reported as saying but it was something along the lines that he intended playing for Mayo over the winter/spring.
There was some reaction to that bit, if any of you can remember: seems he was assuming that he would walk onto the team for the duration of his holiday.
I feel it was on Hoganstand that I read this but, off the top of my head, I can't say for definite.
Quote from: Barney on August 20, 2008, 10:01:59 AM
I'm sure though he's not back for good Abbeysider?
No dont think he is. I heard he is home for a while because Brisbane Lions wont qualify for the finals, think they are playing against Carlton in the 2nd last game of the season on Saturday night.
It could be all
shite a rumour but I was talking to people who assured me he is home in Ballagh for a while.
I wonder could we see him tog for Ballagh? Or is there rules about player registration before a certain date to stop him ? Dont think he togged out at the weekend for them or we would have heard it.
I do think that he has to be registered as a player in 2008 for the club to play any part and his contract in Oz might prevent him from playing but I cant we sure.
QuoteNot sure if he will feature for Ballagh for the rest of the season but he is back in Mayo.
If he's back in Ballagh he is back in Roscommon not Mayo!!
Saw Setanta O'hAilpín play for Na Piarsaigh a couple of years back when home on holidays. Had a great game and scored a brilliant goal.
Pierse isn't back for good I'm afraid. The Aussie rules season is coming near an end (for Brisbane anyway) so he will be home for an extended period as Lar said. I think he said in that newspaper interview he would loved to have played for Mayo if they were still involved when he got home (and given our current options yes I think he would have walked back on to the team). I'd say we could see him in action for Ballagh in the Mayo c'ship though, he would be a handy enough addition at this time of year! As long as the paperwork is sorted there is no problem, as Tatler Jack alluded to, the O'Hailpins always tog for their club when they're home.
When Mandela was released from Robben Island the joke was about the first question he asked ' is Martin Carney still playing for Mayo?'. These days the updated joke would have Mandela asking 'are those Mayo lads still trying to make out that austin O'malley is an inter county standard footballer?'
Quote from: seafoid on August 20, 2008, 05:26:34 PM
When Mandela was released from Robben Island the joke was about the first question he asked ' is Martin Carney still playing for Mayo?'. These days the updated joke would have Mandela asking 'are those Mayo lads still trying to make out that austin O'malley is an inter county standard footballer?'
What Mayo lads would they be Seafoid? If you try to link me to any promotion of Austin I ll sue you.
In a recent post about Kieron Conroy being picked at FB I'm afraid I may have given a wrong impression to readers here and I'd like to set the record straight; the conscience will bother me otherwise.
When I expressed my opinion about O'Mahony saying he had a hunch about Conroy filling the gap I had intended it to be a token of exasperation and not a personal attack on the man. I had stuck an exclamation mark after the sentence to show I was exasperated. But after reading what I wrote again I realise it could be very well taken as a direct attack on the man.
This was not what I had intended at all. I am certainly baffled and concerned about the way he makes bad calls nowadays, unlike the Johnno of old, but I would not personally slight him.
I don't think anyone thought it was a personal attack Lar. You've offered plenty of criticism of JOM but anyone that knows ya on the board would know it would never be personal
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 21, 2008, 01:01:24 AM
In a recent post about Kieron Conroy being picked at FB I'm afraid I may have given a wrong impression to readers here and I'd like to set the record straight; the conscience will bother me otherwise.
When I expressed my opinion about O'Mahony saying he had a hunch about Conroy filling the gap I had intended it to be a token of exasperation and not a personal attack on the man. I had stuck an exclamation mark after the sentence to show I was exasperated. But after reading what I wrote again I realise it could be very well taken as a direct attack on the man.
This was not what I had intended at all. I am certainly baffled and concerned about the way he makes bad calls nowadays, unlike the Johnno of old, but I would not personally slight him.
The whole point on having a manager is that he can plan things and have good instinct about how certain player fit into certain roles and O'mahony has bee a major Failure in this regard even by his own standards.
Conroy boyle and AOM being the 3 most blatant examples this year. these guys are not county standard and our great manager didnt spot this till they played a championship game and then they were all discarded without trace, and set those lads who tried their best up as fall guys .
Thats not management its reaction. there seems to be no coherent plan for this mayo team. they are being prepare excellently there there is a serious lack of commitment to the team shown by JOM and he really has to leave before he destroys what is still one of the best Bunches of players in the country . his closed squad was a defensive measure against Ciaran Mcdonald and it severly weakened theflexibily of the squad later in the year and his abilty to mend fences with other players (eg.kilcullens)and replace injured players thourgh the year.
Had omahony had the balls to tell mcdonald he was not wanted as he was too old or whatever , fair enough thats what mangers do. but he ballsed up by trying to be a cute hoor. to mayo's expense
I was delighted to see omahony becoming manager but it is becoming clear he is juggling too many balls for it to work.Politics,sports management,funerals and his own family, in a 24 hour day.
Something else must give, Mayo football has given this year.
Quote from: mannix on August 21, 2008, 11:36:32 AM
I was delighted to see omahony becoming manager but it is becoming clear he is juggling too many balls for it to work.Politics,sports management,funerals and his own family, in a 24 hour day.Something else must give, Mayo football has given this year.
Busy man ! ;)
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 21, 2008, 01:01:24 AM
In a recent post about Kieron Conroy being picked at FB I'm afraid I may have given a wrong impression to readers here and I'd like to set the record straight; the conscience will bother me otherwise.
When I expressed my opinion about O'Mahony saying he had a hunch about Conroy filling the gap I had intended it to be a token of exasperation and not a personal attack on the man. I had stuck an exclamation mark after the sentence to show I was exasperated. But after reading what I wrote again I realise it could be very well taken as a direct attack on the man.
This was not what I had intended at all. I am certainly baffled and concerned about the way he makes bad calls nowadays, unlike the Johnno of old, but I would not personally slight him.
Here is the thing Lar, Is it just this year and last that he began to make bad calls. You and I are around long enough to remember the 88-91 era. I rememember returning to work after the 89 final and most people were reasonably happy. However I was struck by how critical 2 work collegues were about Johnno and his management of the game - switches that should have been made. Subs that should have been used/not used, the usual stuff. Thing was the two critics were the most knowledgable men around about the age I am now. One was a former County captain while the other also had played county and both were active in club coaching etc. I remember one saying that he should never be in charge of a county team again. You see it was nt today or yesterday that Johnno has had his critics. Thing is the vast majority of people only see 2 senior All Ireland wins and come to 2 simple conclusions.
1. Johnno is a great manager which means, 2, Mayo must be shite when he cant make anything out of them.
Personally I cant see how being a TD could affect his judgement when it comes to picking teams and stuff. Most team managers pick teams, think up tactics in their sleep. Surely there are team managers out there with more important and time consuming jobs. I mean Micko runs a string of hotels and Boylan used to run a herbal consultancy or something.
It might be a question of ambition? Maybe he used to pick teams and do tactics in his sleep, but now he might be dreaming about a job in the cabinet. After all he's nothing to prove as a manager he's won his AI.
Quote from: goalmouth on August 21, 2008, 08:00:57 PM
It might be a question of ambition? Maybe he used to pick teams and do tactics in his sleep, but now he might be dreaming about a job in the cabinet. After all he's nothing to prove as a manager he's won his AI.
I can t even begin to digest that post Goalmouth. You may be right but I see about 3 issues in there that I could not even try to come to terms with.
1 No ambition for his native county?
2 What cabinet and how could that be more important than his county s football?
3. Nothing to prove after 90/91/07/O8 in Mayo. In other words 4 of his 6 years in charge here have been as distressing as we ve witnessed.
Like yourself, good Moysider, I have experienced a helluva lot more dinnertimes than dinners where following Mayo football is concerned.
When John O'Mahony took the helm again I did feel that there just might be a chance that our fortunes would improve, although I knew history was stacked against him; 40 plus Nestor Cups, eleven semi successes (I think it's 11) and three Sam Maguires. Mayo don't perform well when they go east of the Shannon.
All I would have expected from the Messiah was that he could develop the nucleus of a good side; one that could aim realistically for a Big One sometime in the near future; fine if he would go all the way but I'd settle for him taking the side as far as he could.
Right now, I am thinking of Jason Ryan with Wexford, Liam Sammon and Mickey Harte. Of the three, only Harte could be said to have a chance of lifting Sam but I feel the fans of Galway and Wexford should be feeling somewhat satisfied with their managers. The same could be said where Fermanagh, Monaghan and Westmeath are concerned.
A manager can only go so far and if he can hold out realistic hope of progressing even a little further next year, no one should be too hard on him; I know full well only one team can go the whole hog in any one year.
Where stands John O'Mahony in relation to the managers I have mentioned?
I don't think Mayo football is stronger now than it was when he took over. I'd genuinely love to feel that this was not the case but one has to be realistic. It is frequently said that he just doesn't have quality players at his disposal. Maybe it's a fair point but he has had recruits from a succession of strong u21 sides to call upon.
It could also be the case that his endless chopping and changing hasn't helped his side to settle down or develop some degree of cohesion and confidence either.
The coming season, if he does decide to stay, will see him working under pressure time wise and without any degree of public confidence.
Yeah; I do remember '89 well and especially the succeeding years; after '89 it was all downhill and he certainly did not leave with any feeling of widespread regret. But he did not have the endless litany of controversial judgments levelled at him either.
What is it about Connacht lads, polluting our good national board with the "Mayo Season review...", or the "Sligo Football - Where do we...", would ye ever feck off to the Local board ;) Should not be here unless it's of 'National' interest, which by definition must at least involve TWO* counties. Off the pot lads.
* Unless still involved at National level.
I don't think he's in Ballagh lads:
QuotePearce Hanley prepares for his AFL senior debut this weekend. The former Mayo player trained with the Lions' senior side this week ahead of tomorrow's clash with Carlton Blues and coach Leigh Matthews has confirmed that the Ballaghadereen 19-year-old is in the frame for selection.
Viewed as a gamble in Brisbane, Hanley believes he is close to making his mark.
"I would like to think I'm close to getting a game, but we will just have to wait and see," he said. "I have picked up on the basics of the game pretty quick but I am on a learning curve and I have still been making a mistake or two playing in the reserves. I have been mainly playing in the defence but I was actually tried out on the wing last weekend and I really enjoyed it."
Brisbane Lions have lodged papers with the AFL to get the rookie-contracted player elevated to the senior list and it is expected that the request will be granted.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2008, 11:45:47 PM
What is it about Connacht lads, polluting our good national board with the "Mayo Season review...", or the "Sligo Football - Where do we...", would ye ever feck off to the Local board ;) Should not be here unless it's of 'National' interest, which by definition must at least involve TWO* counties. Off the pot lads.
* Unless still involved at National level.
Fear, I thought 'Parity of Esteem' was a buzz term up your way!
If we are indeed trespassing on forbidden territory, is it because we are 'Connacht lads' or is it because you think slaggin' the socks offa John O'Mahony isn't deemed to be a matter of 'National' interest?
It has to be the first one, hasn't it? ;D ;D
As I write, there's a thread bout Mickey Harte's role, Liam Kearns stepping down, Wexford team haircuts and the search for a Dublin team manager all in the same section as us. Are all those in the National interest?
You haven't even told our neighbours from Sligo to get off the pot either.
Maybe you're a closet O'Mahony fan!
Fear, Armagh's one is still here too so it is. ;)
I would side with Lar and moysider on this one, he (JOM) hasn't really brought Mayo on much at all since he took over. However, if the players want him to stay then he should stay imo. They are the ones that should be listened to in these situations. Maybe next year we might do something, because as Johnno said himself it's when we're least expecting something it'll happen.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 22, 2008, 02:59:36 PM
Fear, Armagh's one is still here too so it is. ;)
I would side with Lar and moysider on this one, he (JOM) hasn't really brought Mayo on much at all since he took over. However, if the players want him to stay then he should stay imo. They are the ones that should be listened to in these situations. Maybe next year we might do something, because as Johnno said himself it's when we're least expecting something it'll happen.
not always the greatest reason for keeping a coach. If the coach and players have too cosy a relationship it can often lead to a closed shop. Maybe not a problem when your winning all around you but thats not exactly the situation is it?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 22, 2008, 02:59:36 PM
Fear, Armagh's one is still here too so it is. ;)
I would side with Lar and moysider on this one, he (JOM) hasn't really brought Mayo on much at all since he took over. However, if the players want him to stay then he should stay imo. They are the ones that should be listened to in these situations. Maybe next year we might do something, because as Johnno said himself it's when we're least expecting something it'll happen.
To be honest I would take anything Conoreen says with a pinch of salt. I found it strange that he would admit that a large group of players were discussing their manager on a train or something day after match. Andy Moran had a poor summer and a new manager might not be as kind to him.
My understanding of things is that Conor s and Andy s enthusiasm is not a universal reflection of how the players feel.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 22, 2008, 10:45:26 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 21, 2008, 11:45:47 PM
What is it about Connacht lads, polluting our good national board with the "Mayo Season review...", or the "Sligo Football - Where do we...", would ye ever feck off to the Local board ;) Should not be here unless it's of 'National' interest, which by definition must at least involve TWO* counties. Off the pot lads.
* Unless still involved at National level.
Fear, I thought 'Parity of Esteem' was a buzz term up your way!
If we are indeed trespassing on forbidden territory, is it because we are 'Connacht lads' or is it because you think slaggin' the socks offa John O'Mahony isn't deemed to be a matter of 'National' interest?
It has to be the first one, hasn't it? ;D ;D
As I write, there's a thread bout Mickey Harte's role, Liam Kearns stepping down, Wexford team haircuts and the search for a Dublin team manager all in the same section as us. Are all those in the National interest?
You haven't even told our neighbours from Sligo to get off the pot either.
Maybe you're a closet O'Mahony fan!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 22, 2008, 02:59:36 PM
Fear, Armagh's one is still here too so it is. ;)
I would side with Lar and moysider on this one, he (JOM) hasn't really brought Mayo on much at all since he took over. However, if the players want him to stay then he should stay imo. They are the ones that should be listened to in these situations. Maybe next year we might do something, because as Johnno said himself it's when we're least expecting something it'll happen.
Lads, as a strict 'Esteemer of Parity', I felt it my bounden duty to draw attention to this thread, given that I believed it to be nothing less than a very partisan pander to the most parochial of partial politics. Can I retract that all; given the very passionate defence of your most treasured and estimable county can I now withdraw my rather pitiable protest, and have no problem whatsoever deferring to your good offices. Maigh Eo Abú!
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 22, 2008, 10:35:26 PM
Maigh Eo Abú!
That's enough of that sort of abuse Fear !!! >:(
Well I haven't heard any news only what's on here and Barney changed the title to 'Players call for O'Mahony to Stay' instead of Conoreen. It's true too rosnarun that JOM could have a cosy relationship with some of the players to the detriment of true progress that we need. Is following Mayo the most frustrating thing anyone could do?
Quote
Quote from: Tubberman on August 19, 2008, 08:56:53 AM
Quote
Quote
Maybe so but he clearly saw Conroy, Boyle and Austin as part of his strongest team. Does that fill you with confidence as to how he might see his strongest team again next Summer come championship?
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way. For instance, you should remember the case of Kieran Conroy when he first played at full back. According to the Great Man, he was a natural for the position. His instincts told him he had found the right candidate for the role. That's more or less what the Mayo News reported anyway.
F**k him and his instincts!
F**k you and your twisting (well, you started it).
Yet again you're putting words in someone elses mouth and reporting it as fact. O'Mahony never said Conroy was a natural for the full back role and that isn't what was reported either - it's the slant you decided you put on it. This is the actual quote:
Quote
"Sometimes you just get a hunch about a fella and I just had a hunch about him playing in the full-back position. He also marked David Brady in a challenge game against Ballina recently and did well."
O'Mahony decided to take a chance to see if Conroy fitted the full back position. It looked good for a couple of games, but in the end, it looks like Conroy is only suited to playing against a particular style of player. Now if we're going to start fcking and blinding the manager for trying players out, he's in a no-win position from the start.
This is the third serious allegation you have levelled against me.
I answered the first two as comprehensively as I could and so far nobody, including you has seen reason to challenge either of my replies.
In the second case, I went so far as to post the statements of both JOM and of Sean Feeney and I invited readers to draw their own conclusions. You, so far, are the only one to insist that both statements should be taken literally.
Maybe you might answer one question for me?
If both persons meant exactly what they stated, who is going to decide JOM's future as county manager?
"It won't be my decision, it never is," said O'Mahony.
"He's there and if he wants the job it's his," was Feeney's reply.
Riddle me that one if you can.
You are now telling me that "yet again" I am twisting other people's words. (Yet again?? Was there another time?)
I picked out his judgment on Kieran Conroy as just one instance of his poor personal judgment calls. It was just one in a "litany of bad decisions" as another poster had described it.
Anyway, he followed his hunch and gave young Conroy an extended run in the position. (Had a hunch or followed his instincts? I suggest you are really nitpicking here.)
Poor Conroy got an almighty roasting from critics but Johnno followed his hunch; until he had to drag the lad off the pitch against Galway.
If the above statement is wrong, I invite any reader to correct me.
F**k him and his instincts!
I really thought the exclamation was a giveaway here.
I have always been scrupulous to give O'Mahony credit t where it is due.
Ever since he came back to the job in 2006, I have had some sympathy for the manager.
That was stated in one of my recent posts. But I also said:
Yes; that is the sort of stuff that really worries me; Johnno is starting to lose his way.
Tubberman: I stand over what I have posted. Any inferences you appear to draw are your business.
Lar, sorry for the late reply. I've been up the walls lately and haven't had time to catch up on the board until now. To be honest, I was v cranky that morning (nothing new to those who know me probably :P) and you took the brunt. I don't mean to be singling your posts out, but obviously I disagree with your interpretations of the quotes from JOM and Sean F.
You also said that JOM said that Conroy was a natural for full back - I was pointing out that he didn't say that, and I stand over that. However, there's no argument from me as to the success (or lack thereof) of that experiment, it's obviously not going to be the solution to our full back problems.
You're obviously extremely frustrated at the lack of progress - I am as well, but I still think (arguably it's blind faith!) JOM can mould a team that can actually function as a team rather than a few good individuals - which I think has been one of our main failings - for example Tyrone's first 15 individually wouldn't be any better than our own imo.
I saw your post about the JOM "instincts" and thanks for clarifying what you meant - I took it up as an insult to JOM the man, and in fairness that would be completely out of character for you judging on your other posts.
Hope that clears it up - I promise to get cranky with someone else next time ;)
i to, like moysider and lar have been around during j.oms first tenure as manager.i have never been a big fan of his based on his 4 years in charge back then.i have always hated the way he plays down our chances of winning and always seems to be making excuses in advance,which i feel seeps thro to the team .i still think we have the talent to be contenders and it is very frustating to be finished so early this year.back in the spring of 1996 and 2004 ,if any body had told you that mayo would reach the all ire land final that year you would have been laughed at,but for some reason john maughan was able to instill a belief and a conviction in his teams which i feel lj .om has been unable to so far. as farrandeelin said its got to be the most frustating thing to follow mayo but come next spring our hopes will rise again that maybe this will be our year as surely this drought has to end some time!
Quote from: Tubberman on August 23, 2008, 10:10:09 PM
Lar, sorry for the late reply. I've been up the walls lately and haven't had time to catch up on the board until now. To be honest, I was v cranky that morning (nothing new to those who know me probably :P) and you took the brunt. I don't mean to be singling your posts out, but obviously I disagree with your interpretations of the quotes from JOM and Sean F.
You also said that JOM said that Conroy was a natural for full back - I was pointing out that he didn't say that, and I stand over that. However, there's no argument from me as to the success (or lack thereof) of that experiment, it's obviously not going to be the solution to our full back problems.
You're obviously extremely frustrated at the lack of progress - I am as well, but I still think (arguably it's blind faith!) JOM can mould a team that can actually function as a team rather than a few good individuals - which I think has been one of our main failings - for example Tyrone's first 15 individually wouldn't be any better than our own imo.
I saw your post about the JOM "instincts" and thanks for clarifying what you meant - I took it up as an insult to JOM the man, and in fairness that would be completely out of character for you judging on your other posts.
Hope that clears it up - I promise to get cranky with someone else next time ;)
Hi, Tubberman, I am delighted to hear from you and you can be sure I bear you no ill-will whatsoever; everyone is entitled to his say.
I think we are disagreeing over the meaning of words; if I told you to eff off, how would you react?
It could mean I was expressing begrudging admiration or it could also be taken as a very hostile and belligerent comment!
To me, context is more important than content, especially when it comes to a statement by a public figure.
I wouldn't pay too much heed to what, say, Ger Loughnane would come out with but John O'Mahony is a very different individual.
For the likes of the bould Ger to say he had never stayed were he wasn't wanted and the decision in this case wasn't going to be his, could be taken as hot air or bluster – or downright irritability.
I take O'Mahony to be a very cautious individual indeed; he will think twice before speaking once. At least I used to think that of him but I cannot fathom him out any more. Maybe he genuinely is rattled by double-jobbing and by the pressures from a most impatient public.
To say he has a hunch about anybody fitting the bill at FB was most unwise. Why FB? Because Mayo has been looking for a replacement for Kevin Cahill, ever since he retired! The search for a new FB has dominated speculation about team selection for years and inevitably, Conroy was going to be subjected to intense scrutiny before he ever got the chance to settle in.
A shrewder move would have been to say nothing until he had made up his own mind about Conroy's chances of filling Kevin Cahill's boots. O'Mahony persisted with his hunch until Nicky Joyce blew it to smithereens within 20 minutes.
What really upset me was the look of utter mortification on the poor lad's face as he was hauled off. Fans can give vent to their feelings alright but do we ever stop to consider the feelings of players out there? It must be very hurtful to be taken off in front of friends and family, not to mention getting abuse from the county at large.
I don't doubt that Kieron Conroy gave his best but I never saw him fitting the bill at no. 3. I just hope he has the confidence to fight his way back onto the side again; I know it won't be easy.
Believe me; I am not looking for flaws in Johnno's performance; I just wish they weren't there.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on August 21, 2008, 11:09:27 PM
Like yourself, good Moysider, I have experienced a helluva lot more dinnertimes than dinners where following Mayo football is concerned.
When John O'Mahony took the helm again I did feel that there just might be a chance that our fortunes would improve, although I knew history was stacked against him; 40 plus Nestor Cups, eleven semi successes (I think it's 11) and three Sam Maguires. Mayo don't perform well when they go east of the Shannon.
All I would have expected from [b]the Messiah[/b] was that he could develop the nucleus of a good side; one that could aim realistically for a Big One sometime in the near future; fine if he would go all the way but I'd settle for him taking the side as far as he could.
Right now, I am thinking of Jason Ryan with Wexford, Liam Sammon and Mickey Harte. Of the three, only Harte could be said to have a chance of lifting Sam but I feel the fans of Galway and Wexford should be feeling somewhat satisfied with their managers. The same could be said where Fermanagh, Monaghan and Westmeath are concerned.
A manager can only go so far and if he can hold out realistic hope of progressing even a little further next year, no one should be too hard on him; I know full well only one team can go the whole hog in any one year.
Where stands John O'Mahony in relation to the managers I have mentioned?
I don't think Mayo football is stronger now than it was when he took over. I'd genuinely love to feel that this was not the case but one has to be realistic. It is frequently said that he just doesn't have quality players at his disposal. Maybe it's a fair point but he has had recruits from a succession of strong u21 sides to call upon.
It could also be the case that his endless chopping and changing hasn't helped his side to settle down or develop some degree of cohesion and confidence either.
The coming season, if he does decide to stay, will see him working under pressure time wise and without any degree of public confidence.
Yeah; I do remember '89 well and especially the succeeding years; after '89 it was all downhill and he certainly did not leave with any feeling of widespread regret. But he did not have the endless litany of controversial judgments levelled at him either.
Now I m not disagreeing with you Lar but I ve a problem with all these Nestor Cups. Thing is since we last won Sam in 51 Galway have won twice as many Nestors as we have. They have won @6 Sams in that time and something like 3 Liam McCartys as well. [ Thats as many Sams as we ve ever won and we re almost exclusively a football county]
I think its important to highlight these statistics because there is a spin out there - innocent or deliberate???? - that we produce great minor teams and choke outside the province at Senior level. I believe a lot of the accepted theories about Mayo football is mythology and dont stand up. The Messiah thing is just another of those labels and I m sure Johhno would not paticularly want to have to wear it. I realise Lar you use it in an ironic way only and Ive probably done the same myself. My annoyance is that Mayo sells itself short. Everybody I ve ever known whose either played for, managed, or supported Mayo ended up feeling let down.
Imo the biggest reason for losing out in AI honours in last 57 years is our failure in Connacht. At the end of the day the lads that have been on the county board executive down the years have to take more than some responsibility for a horrible last 57 Years. If the recent trend continues Galway will leave us far behind in the Provincal as well as the Sam count. There is of course a reason why this has happened.
Quote from: moysider on August 25, 2008, 02:40:28 AM
There is of course a reason why this has happened.
Why?
That's a solid post, Moysider, and I realise full well that stats can be manipulated lots of different ways. But stats do not lie.
The entire Connacht/Ulster axis fares out very badly where Sam Maguire is concerned; a combined total of 17 out of 124 is not impressive by any standards.
Ulster fares out even worse than Connacht, with just one win (Cavan) up to 1968.
However, if you were to go by stats since Mayo's appearance in '89, the figures are quite impressive: 9 out of 19 for Connacht/Ulster sides. The imbalance is being redressed and Mayo football is improving, along with the rest of them. That's what the stats tell me.
We were very harshly treated by the ref in the '96 replay and my gripe has nothing to do with Liam McHale. Remember Meath's goal near the end. It came from a quick free kick and the Mayo backs were not ready when it was taken. Does anyone recall our backs were still lining up when Geraghty struck the ball?
The player said afterwards that McEananey had gone to both dressing rooms before the game began and clearly indicated that he would not allow quick frees to be taken.
We'll never know why he did this but the subsequent history of Mayo football could well have been different.
Croke Park chokers?
In reality, we only collapsed in the last two finals; Cork did likewise last year. Meath did the same against Galway some years back and in the semi before that, Kerry collapsed against the same Meath side. Mayo hasn't a monopoly on Croke Park blues!
When Johnno came back on board, the term, "Messiah," was being freely bandied about and was based on anticipation rather than reality. Stats haven't gone away, you know! ;)
There has been a gradual improvement in quality over the last 20 years or so but the stats are loaded against O'Mahony. I doubt if he relishes the Messiah tag at the moment but I don't imagine he was unhappy about being called that in the lead up to the General Election. I don't criticise him if he was either; I wouldn't mind seeing him as the next Pope if he delivers the goods. ;D
Another thing, I think he is sincerely doing his best but it's his tendency to make ill-judged decisions that worries me. Will another year with Johnno leave us better or worse off? I'm afraid it will be the latter.
Nestor Cups? Hmmm..
Okay; it is always preferable to win than to lose, but its importance has been greatly diminished by the arrival of the back door system. Galway folks won't differentiate between Sams won with a Nestor and those without.
I'm afraid we are slipping into a "Woe is us, "mode. You know what I mean, I hope; we are getting accustomed to the notion of being eternal losers and expect to get knocked out every year, only to begin the following year all over again; like Moses and his gang roaming around the desert.
Winning a Nestor is fine but shouldn't be regarded as the high point of our year.
"My annoyance is that Mayo sells itself short," is a sentiment I'd borrow from you. Why is there a tendency to drop the head and resign ourselves to our fate whenever the dreaded "Back Door" is mentioned? There are other counties, including Kerry, that don't rely on a provincial crown to propel themselves all the way.
Report in this weeks 'Western' about Pierce Hanley making his debut for Brisbane Lions last Saturday. Good luck to him. I was lucky to have seen him play several times since he was a kid but we ll have to resign ourselves to the fact he wont be in the green and red again. He may play for club though in Aussie off-season.
With Mayo finished for 2008, two players pause to reflect
Tuesday, 26 August 2008
Conor Mortimor and Andy Moran
Talking points
With Mayo finished for 2008, two players pause to reflect
The Interview
Mike Finnerty
THEY couldn't be more different. One arrives early, the other is running late. One answers every question instinctively without fear or favour while the other is eloquent and considered. One keeps his head down and just gets on with it while the other courts the spotlight with his hair, boots and attitude.
Meet Conor Mortimer and Andy Moran, Mayo footballers and 2008 Vhi Cúl Camp ambassadors. An hour in their company teaches you that they are two very different young men with one shared ambition. Football has brought them together and winning an All-Ireland medal is why they do what they do.
But with Mayo now out of the championship for another year, they are only too happy to talk about past experiences, their present mood, and their plans for the future.
MF How did you feel after Mayo lost to Tyrone in the Qualifiers?
AM I think the major thing we have to get right is our attitude. If anyone is going to tell me that Monaghan or Fermanagh or Kildare or any of these boys are better than us, I'm just not going to buy that. You should see us at training when things come off. It's phenomenal. When we get on the field at the minute it's just not happening and that's down to the players.
CM I think when you lose a few big games you start to wonder, 'Are we good enough to be there?' We haven't beaten the teams that were put in front of us. We haven't won a big championship match in two years. We have the players, there's no doubt about that, we've worked hard, but we're not getting the results.
MF How would you assess the 2008 season?
CM Even though we didn't win anything I wouldn't write off our season. I think we improved from last year. And Connacht medals don't mean anything to me anymore. The one I want to win is an All-Ireland.
We did okay in the league and we could have beaten Galway and Tyrone. But we didn't. I don't know to be honest if Tyrone won that game or we lost it. I think we lost it.
We had a game-plan that we stuck to for 40 minutes and then we got dragged back, defending our own goal, and ended up with one forward. You can't do that.
MF In hindsight, would Ciaran McDonald have made a difference?
AM Talent-wise, I don't think there's any question about Ciaran Mac's ability. But the 29 lads that were there wanted to be there, really wanted to play for Mayo. It's hard to know...
I think, if he was playing against Tyrone, we probably would have won. But we had got to the stage where we were being over-reliant on Ciaran McDonald and it wasn't working.
MF What would he have brought against Tyrone?
CM He can lay ball all day long. The supply was coming against Tyrone but in fits and starts.
AM But the problem is when MacD gets shut down.
MF What about people that say Mayo are not good enough?
AM No way. We lost so many this season by a point or two. The Galway games, the Kerry game, Derry, Tyrone... Psychologically, we have to get stronger. Next year I'm going to be 25 and it's time for me now to step up.
It's unfair to pick out the likes of Alan Dillon and Conor Mortimer because these are the guys that are doing it consistently for us. It's the likes of myself that have to grow up and perform. Mayo has to be number one next year for me, not Sigerson, not club. Mayo.
MF How would you assess your own performance in 2008?
AM Personally, I'm bitterly disappointed with my championship performances. I didn't look after myself well enough earlier in the year to perform during the summer. I think I've actually done too much over the last couple of years, I've over-trained a bit. I have to re-assess things now for next year.
We're all in it for one reason; to win an All-Ireland. Playing third-level league games and Sigerson weekends doesn't help you realise that goal because you just can't keep peaking. Championship has to be your peak performance but my peak performance happened in March. That's ridiculous. And it's nobody's fault except my own.
CM Mentally and physically I was fine. I was happy with the Sligo and Tyrone games, and I felt I was middlin' against Galway. We only played three championship games.
There's not an awful lot of scoring, 'kick the ball over the bar' forwards in Mayo. You have your workers and your tacklers, and my job is to score. At the end of the day that's what I'm good at. My tackling and my right foot aren't great, but I'll score. I thought I was okay against Tyrone when I got ball. Any ball I got, I won a free or kicked a score.
MF Have you thought much about the Tyrone game since?
AM I've had nightmares about it. I felt as bad as I ever have in my life after that game. I didn't know where to go or what to do. A lot of people make a lot of effort to go and see us and I don't think it's fair on them. I don't think it's fair on Alan [Dillon] and Conor having to kick all the scores every day, and on James Nallen to come back near the end of his career and having to do the business for somebody else.
I just wasn't physically able to play the role I was asked to play. I had done too much work earlier in the year and I wasn't able to cover the ground.
CM I was disappointed but I think, after the years of losing, the hurt doesn't be as bad, especially after the Galway game. Being from Shrule, losing that was like losing an All-Ireland final. Still, walking out of Croke Park, knowing that you should be there the following weekend, is hard to take.
If we had kept playing in low balls against Tyrone, we would have won frees and we would have won the game. A team is like a machine. If one cog isn't working there'll be a problem along the line.
MF What needs to be done to move things on for 2009?
AM The management sat down last year and decided that they were going to build. I think we've definitely got better. Okay, we lost games but look at the way we lost. In 2004 and 2006, against Kerry, as soon as lost went behind we threw in the towel. That didn't happen this year.
We have young fellas like Keith Higgins, leaders and winners, coming through. But psychologically we have to get stronger. You don't lose six or seven games by a point if you're mentally strong. Maybe if you win one of them, the tide will turn.
MF Do the players think that John O'Mahony is the man to manage Mayo next year?
AM Absolutely, there's no doubt at all. I think coming down on the train there the last day – there was about 12 or 13 of us on the train – and I think there was a general consensus ... I don't usually talk about it because I'd be a bit closer to him [John O'Mahony] than most other guys ... but there was a general consensus. There's no doubt about it, they all wanted him to stay.
And I think the way it's working, we could have got to an All-Ireland final again this year, but what good would it have done this? We could have got beaten by 20 points again.
I think what we're trying to work towards here is, and this is the way I'd feel about it, that when we get there the next time, that we're ready for it. That we're not going there and we're coming out with our tails between our legs again. The next time that we get there, that we're ready for it and we're going to win. That'd be my way of [thinking]. I think that's the way a lot of the guys feel, and that's the way the management feel.
But the big disappointment this year is that I actually thought we were ready for it this year. I actually thought when we met in the McWilliam [Park] Hotel, right here, the day after the Galway game, I thought this was going to be the year, because of the way the boys were talking. And we trained awful well in the two weeks prior. The boys in general, there was a great buzz at training, and it was good. We just didn't perform. The thing about it is, there's absolutely no need to panic. We had great times under Mickey [Moran] – in Mickey's year we got there, and we still got flaked.
CM We're the only county that have [had] four managers within five years. There's something going wrong somewhere. There has to be something wrong. Once you go out over that line, it's 15 guys – or 20 guys, because there's five guys coming in. They're the guys who are going to win the game or lose the game. It's nothing to do with the manager or the selectors or whoever else is there.
MF Would you change anything about this year if you could?
CM We should have won the Connacht final. We didn't because we weren't good enough on the day. We always seem to start sluggishly against Galway...
AM I thought we were going okay until Trevor [Mortimer] went off injured.
CM Galway have quality forwards and once a few them got loose, they were going to score.
MF Tell me about the late free you [Conor] took against Galway?
CM The problem is that nobody else will take it, you're not going to see anybody running over to take it.
AM The way the wind was blowing, from that side of the field, it suited a left-footed kicker. I actually called Conor and told him to go out and take it.
CM I didn't really think of drilling it for a score at the time. I didn't think it was the last kick of the game. I just bounced the ball and kicked it. I'd kicked points from there before and some days they go over and some days they don't. I haven't lost sleep over it.
MF Can you see how people think you don't care about playing for Mayo?
CM I can't really. I do all the training, I enjoy it, and my life revolves around playing football.
MF Some people would feel that Mayo will win nothing with you on the team. That you're not a team player. What would you say to them?
CM They'll win nothing without me either.
AM I agree with Conor. Saying we'll win nothing with him on the team? We'll score about six points.
I think it's unfair on Conor and Alan Dillon. I've been scoring freely for my club and for my college for the last couple of years but then when I go into county football, I'm just not doing it. That's my responsibility.
Ninety per cent of our supporters are the best in the country but there are 10% who would say that about Conor. But they're the 10% that don't know their football and who you won't see at a league game.
MF Do you think the criticism you get is fair?
CM It doesn't bother me. What do people expect? Since I started playing with Mayo I've been the top scorer every year. I'm in and around the end of most moves.
MF When was the last time you felt alive on a football field?
CM In The Tyrone match when we went a few points ahead. Everyone was buzzing around, everyone was in the zone. We were playing to our potential.
AM The last time I felt that I could go out and dominate a game was the second half of the Galway game. I felt that I was going to win every ball. It's a good place to be but I haven't been there for Mayo for a while now.
CM The ball has to be kicked in. If ten balls are kicked in, you'll win five, and you'll get some scores. You look at the top guys, Cooper, McDonnell, these fellas, they'll lose four or five balls in every game but if you keep giving them good ball, they'll score.
MF John O'Mahony has made it clear that he doesn't want any hype or expectation around this Mayo team. What do you think of that?
AM I don't normally disagree with Johnno but I think Mayo need the hype. I think we are the best team in Ireland but we still have to prove that. I think we've been patient for two years. I think within our group we need to think we're the best team in Ireland. And we need to prove it. We are so positive behind closed doors it's unreal but maybe it's part of our psyche that we need a bit of hype too.
CM I thought there was a little bit of a buzz here and there this year but you only get hype if you deserve it. I'd say bar Kerry, to a certain degree, we're as good as any team out there. A bit of confidence is really all we're missing.
MF Have you thought about next year?
CM Of course. I don't enjoy the winter training but I don't mind the league, at least you're playing games.
I'm getting older now too and there a lot more things in my life. I'm finishing college next year and I have to get a job, make ends meet.
But if we improve 10% on this year we'll win Connacht next year. The best way to go is through the front-door and I don't see why we shouldn't.
Personally, I've been doing the same thing for seven or eight years for Mayo now and I don't see any need to change. It doesn't bother me what people think. I train all year around and that's why I'm on the team. I'm not there for the sake of it.
AM The first thing I need to do is get away from it for a while. But if I get the chance to play for Mayo next year, it's a big year for me. I need to prove that I'm good enough to be at that level. In 2009 I hope to prove that I am.
Thats the whole interview with Conor and Andy. Hmmmmmmm.
Quote from: moysider on August 26, 2008, 10:30:05 PM
Thats the whole interview with Conor and Andy. Hmmmmmmm.
It seems to me that Conor is of the opinion that he's doing just fine, thanks - couldn't tell ya about those other dumb useless hoors. :-[
He's a hard man to love, Conor.
You may well have something there my avian friend. Here s an editorial from the 'Western' while I was away. I ll give Laffey 1 thing. He does nt sit on the fence although he has been more vicious in the past than in this editorial. Of course his opinion is no better than the rest of us , just more people see it , thats all. I ve just a few issues with it which I highlight.
Time for some Mayo soul-searching
By: James Laffey
AND so the long winter of recrimination has officially begun. Mayo are out of the championship after a wholly uninspiring summer that saw them beat only Sligo, who were themselves dumped out of the Tommy Murphy Cup by the footballing giants that are London. Now that's a statistic to make any man want to reach for a stiff whiskey.
Tyrone were sympathetic executioners last Saturday week in Croke Park. They put us out of our misery in a gentle, kindly manner with their manager Mickey Harte even suggesting that we deserved a draw. Technically he was probably right but on every other level he was wrong. Even when they were in the lead in the latter stages of the first half, Mayo never really looked like winners. Our play was too disjointed and laboured to ever carry the sort of threat that one would associate with a winning team. Mayo were going nowhere fast and that was fairly obvious from the opening quarter hour when we failed to shoot a single point from open play. That is just one of a whole host of damning statistics to emerge from a game in which Mayo played as poorly as they have done at any stage in the last 25 years.
There are few, if any, positives to be taken from our dismal championship exit. The elegant fielding of Tom Parsons was probably the only Mayo highlight in 70 minutes of scrappy, incoherent football that did not augur well for Tyrone's chances of defeating the Dubs next Saturday.
But the progress of Mickey Harte's charges will not be of any great interest to Mayo supporters who simply want to see their own house put in order.
Most of the focus has now fallen on Mayo boss John O'Mahony, whose dual role as a TD and football manager has placed an inordinate amount of pressure on his shoulders. Once seen as a Mayo messiah, O'Mahony's stock has fallen as rapidly as the ISEQ index and he is now under more pressure than at any other stage in his long managerial career. Two victories - over Cavan and Sligo - is a poor return for the first two years of his second coming. The fact that he has singularly failed to blood any new talent - with the honourable exception of Tom Parsons - is also a damning indictment of his two-year tenure. The vast majority of the team that started on Saturday had a role to play in the All-Ireland campaign of 2006 when Mickey Moran managed Mayo to probably our greatest day in Croke Park since 1951 by beating Dublin in an unforgettable semi-final. Incredibly, Moran got the bullet from a County Board that believed O'Mahony would deliver an All-Ireland title within a three-year time frame. The latter's abject failure in the first two years poses a really interesting question for the County Board when it sits down in a few weeks: if the exacting standards on which Moran was judged are applied to O'Mahony, they have no choice but to make him walk the plank.
But changing manager in midstream is not really the solution to the malaise that is affecting Mayo football at the moment. O'Mahony does not have the quality play-ers to win an All-Ireland and one only has to look at the limited bench that was at his disposal against Tyrone to realise the dearth of football talent that exists in Mayo in 2008.
When John Maughan steered Mayo to an All-Ireland Final in 1996, with a team that was probably the best the county has produced since 1951 - he was able to leave Pat Fallon, Kevin O'Neill, Gary Ruane and Peter Butler on the bench and still bring Mayo to within a single kick of victory. In the same year Ciaran McDonald was in America, Kevin Staunton and Padraig Brogan were in exile and Ronan Golding was missing in action. That's a serious amount of talent to be deemed surplus to requirements but that's the way it was back then. We were spoilt for choice. John O'Mahony does not find himself in a similar position. He has to make do with play-ers who are clearly out of their depth at intercounty level. Less than a handful of the team that started the Connacht Final would get within an ass's roar of claiming a place on the 1996 side. Harsh? Perhaps, but it is an indisputable fact.
Her are my gripes, although I agree with the overall message.
Red issue one. We ve played worse a few times in the past25 years.
Red issue two. There was enough quality to beat Tyrone. Our bench was on the field because the initial championship team was flawed and the subbed lads v galway were out of the race.
Red issue three. Pure revisionism. Not sure it was the best we produced since 51 - the opposition was probably the poorest I recall in an AI and AI semi. We still did nt win. 2 things.
We came from nowhere. And rather than have a great team, Maughan cobbled together a team of old hands, Finnerty, Flanagan and fellas nobody ever really heard of before, Madden, Connelly, Horan and a young gunslinger or two like Brady as well as the usual suspects like Cahill, McHale Etc. They came from Div. 3 and were only recognised as a good team after the fact by most people.
If, if ,if we had the Butlers, O Neills , Heffernans, McDonald, O Neill, Brogan, Fallon, Ruane on board we might have won 1 or 2. They were not surplus. Only Maughan and those lads can explain why it did nt happen.
Interestingly this online version of Laffey s article has been edited severley from the printed edition.In the origional he was tough on torso tattoos and basically player ego and commitment and why James Nallen still carries the can for manicured pussies [my adjective and noun] at 34. Why was that taken out of the electronic editio? Surely nobody could possibly identify to whom he was referring? Were there calls to the desk threatening diplomatic breakdown like there was to a rival publication following a harmless enough colour piece before Connacht final? And they complained about Big Brother in China during Olympics.
I don't know James Laffey or anything about him, but I get a bad feeling about that piece, and some of the other football stuff he's written in general.
I would worry that Laffey is using football as a free shot to do a bit of pulpit thumping to show what a tough guy he is because he knows he's never going to have to back up what he says. He sounds like a man full of piss and vinegar in this - can anyone recall anything he had to write about the Shell to Sea campaign, or a recent upsurge in anti-social behaviour in some Mayo towns, or how the recession is hitting the west? Something that might actually cost him something?
I can't either.
Here's a phrase that bothers me.
Quote from: moysider on August 27, 2008, 12:44:42 AM
... the All-Ireland campaign of 2006 when Mickey Moran managed Mayo to probably our greatest day in Croke Park since 1951 by beating Dublin in an unforgettable semi-final.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd struggle to put that win over Dublin in my own top three Croke Park Mayo performances in my time alone, and that doesn't even stretch back to 1951. For what it's worth, I'd go:
1. Mayo v Kerry, 1996.
2. Mayo v Tryone, 2004.
3. Mayo v Dublin, 1985.
Anyone that's picking out that game against Dublin two years ago, which Dublin lost rather than Mayo won, would make me wonder if he's a bit innocent. But I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.
Laffey doesn't nail his colours to the mast as much as he lets on either. How many times does he use the word "probably" in the piece? Four times in 740 words. Once every 185. That's a lot of probablys. Probably.
As for censorship, it's not today or yesterday that raised its ugly head. I don't know about any of the rest of you, but I used to really enjoy reading Anthony Finnerty in the Mayo News around 2000/2001. Then he got mixed up in a long running dispute with Seán Feeny and that was bloody that for Fat Larry. :-X
I think Laffey is trying to re-write history to a large degree with this article.
Quite possibly, I may have been critical of John O'Mahony from time to time ;) but I don't think that speaking through your anal orifice is on when you use history to back up your assertions.
The result against Tyrone was a case of bad beating bad; not even bad beating worse.
O'Mahony could just as easily have been the one to utter the required platitudes after the game.
It's unduly condescending to say Tyrone were 'sympathetic' or treated us in 'a gentle, easy manner.' They won by the skin of their teeth and by the ability of their manager to react quickly to what was going on during the game. We were absolutely cat on the day but Tyrone did not have the luxury of handling us gently or offering sympathy to us either.
That is just one of a whole host of damning statistics to emerge from a game in which Mayo played as poorly as they have done at any stage in the last 25 years.
Laffey is not too hot on the oul' adding and taking away either, is he?
What about the '92 semi against Cork, under Jack O'Shea?
You could add in the '94 Connacht final, not to mention the finals of 2004 and 2006.
Maybe, he has chosen to overlook Salthill '07?
Mayo were still in it against Tyrone right up to the final whistle, not like the other games I'm referring to.
When John Maughan steered Mayo to an All-Ireland Final in 1996, with a team that was probably the best the county has produced since 1951 - he was able to leave Pat Fallon, Kevin O'Neill, Gary Ruane and Peter Butler on the bench and still bring Mayo to within a single kick of victory........ We were spoilt for choice.
Knockmore supporters might take issue with this assertion. There's a valid point of view that say we mightn't have been so spoilt for choice if Maughan has considered the players from Knockmore more objectively.
The omission of Pat Fallon caused as much stink as any decision that has been made by O'Mahony since he came back. The absence of O'Neil and Peter Butler were other major talking points and Maughan's full forward trio didn't perform with distinction in either of the '96 finals. That was my considered opinion and it was certainly shared by all Mayo fans I came in contact with.
Less than a handful of the team that started the Connacht Final would get within an ass's roar of claiming a place on the 1996 side. Harsh? Perhaps, but it is an indisputable fact.
What about David Clarke or Keith Higgins?
Nallen and Heaney would retain their places and Aiden Higgins would stake a strong claim as well.What about Alan Dillon and Conor Mortimer? Mortimer gets a lot of stick but he does score consistently and any one at all could make a better fist of things than the entire FF line. I'd fit Peadar Gardiner in somewhere.
I know that not all of them, including a fit Trevor Mortimer, might make the cut. But not to be within an ass's roar?
I don't agree; unless Laffey was thinking of an asseen with laryngitis!
My point here is that if anyone wants to blame O'Mahony it s easy to do so without subjective comparisons with John Maughan's era.
Good post Lar, I think we all agree on JOM's shortcomings this year, some would have stronger views than others. But that editorial was OTT. Mayo's performance against Tyrone among the worst performances of the last 25 years?! Two games last year were worse (Derry and Galway), Kerry in 06 and 04, Galway in 05, Fermanagh in 03, Cork in 02, Westmeath in 01, Sligo in 00, Cork in 99, Kerry in 97, Leitrim in 94, Cork in '93, Donegal in '92 were all much, much worse. I know he uses the word 'among' to give himself some latitude but I've listed fourteen championship games there and my memory only stretches back (barely) to 1989. Very ill-advised comment
Hey RGS or Bod Mor - ye heading to watch Hanley tomorrow night at the SCG - he's listed on the interchange for the Lions so we'll get to see how's he coping.
Care to assist in kidnapping him and posting him back to the 'oul sod, any of ye are up for it?
Thats right, It's on in Moore park. I might go, if I do I'll have my Mayo jersey on and at the end we'll run onto the pitch, throw an oul cloth bag over his head and FedEx him back home.
The last time I went to watch the swans against Geelong two weeks ago, they were terrible but it would be worth going to see how Hanley is progressing anyway.
Might tip along alright with my backpack to see if we can fit the buck into it. But don't let Leigh Matthews catch us - I don't think any of us could cope with a haymaker like he threw in this video (watch the top of the video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r81_FLjfNOg :o >:(
I am really hesitant about resurrecting this thread at this stage; it certainly has been an interesting discussion and one would think that all that has to be said has been well and truly aired. It's time to move on.....
However, if anyone goes back to Barney's opening post you will find that a few points he brought up still remain unanswered and they are central to the matter in hand. I'm not referring to the comments posted on this thread but to the fact that we are all assuming that John O'Mahony is going to remain on as Mayo manager.
Is he?
When I read Barney's quote from Setanta, I felt O'Mahony was not a happy camper.
Feeney's reply confirmed this, at least for me.
Since then a whole lot of time has passed and there is still no overt move from either party; James Waldron has moved from merely saying that there is no move from anyone on the board against the manager to stating that the board supports him.
The players seem to be willing to work with him again next year.
If you were to take the views expressed on this board, it could be fair to say that the majority of followers want to see him continue on.
There is still no move from O'Mahony and the board has not gone beyond saying that the job is still his if he wants it.
Kevin McStay
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4827&Itemid=39 SR (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4827&Itemid=39%20SR) (second part of the article) sums it up,
To use a phrase originally coined by Tommy Lyons (the pundit rather than the selector) this is 'arse-boxing' of a pretty rare vintage.
Sean Rice goes much further and I think he has covered all aspects of the matter pretty well.
http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4827&Itemid=39 (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4827&Itemid=39)
Are we all too hasty in assuming that O'Mahony intends to carry on?
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Is he having a sly dig at Mc D with this comment?
I think this dissection of every little thing that is said just causes too much controversy.
I know the manager is a politician and careful with his words but it is very difficult to consider every single word used, the context within a sentence etc.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 02, 2008, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Is he having a sly dig at Mc D with this comment?
He is def having a cut at McD there, this is going to haunt him as long as he is the manager, the way he dealt with the McDonald issue was poor.
"We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise"Dunno what he is on about here, when your players go around picking the ball off the ground and not taking a goal chance when it presents itself you cant blame the ref!!
Quote from: Davitt Man on September 02, 2008, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 02, 2008, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Is he having a sly dig at Mc D with this comment?
He is def having a cut at McD there, this is going to haunt him as long as he is the manager, the way he dealt with the McDonald issue was poor.
"We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise"
Dunno what he is on about here, when your players go around picking the ball off the ground and not taking a goal chance when it presents itself you cant blame the ref!!
In fairness we didn't get a lot of breaks from the ref in that game. Campbell was blown up for taking the ball off the ground on the Tyrone end line when he clearly put the toe under it.
Having said that we shouldn't have needed any reffering breaks in that game and I'd say from the way Johhno is talking there he knows it to.
I'd say it's a little early to give him another 3 years yet ;)
But we'll see where we are this time next year. A Connacht title and/or a semi final appearance are within our grasp as realistic targets next imo
Quote from: kevmy on September 02, 2008, 04:48:31 PM
In fairness we didn't get a lot of breaks from the ref in that game. Campbell was blown up for taking the ball off the ground on the Tyrone end line when he clearly put the toe under it.
Having said that we shouldn't have needed any reffering breaks in that game and I'd say from the way Johhno is talking there he knows it to.
I'd say it's a little early to give him another 3 years yet ;)
But we'll see where we are this time next year. A Connacht title and/or a semi final appearance are within our grasp as realistic targets next imo
Jesus your been far too optimistic there Kevmy, remember john o's mantra ;)
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Anyway that s that. At least this closure is a good thing but not sure I like the man s tone. From what was reported he got an easy enough ride from the club representatives yet his replies were peevish enough. They were reminiscent of Stan s 'Well what would you have done '? variety and showed scant regard for those of us who care and would like a decent review of the year. And this business again of ' if anybody feels they can do a better job... ' What is that? Well yes John I think I would have done better because you got a few things badly wrong and very little right. A Gom could have got what he got right right..... so what your next move? That bothers me because he must know he did nt do a good job this year and yet he says this again weeks after he said it in what could be explained away as down to the immediate aftermath of a defeat moment. It looks like he was prepared for a grilling but nobody was in the mood for a row.
As for the delegates that proposed 3 further years. Dunno whats going on there but I have my doubts. Anyway the train will pull out again and there will be no real concern until we lose out to Galway in Salthill next Summer. But that ll be easily explained away. We always lose there right? no magic wand, we we re nt listening to what he said when he got the job [ what he did say was that he would build a platform where we would get back to a final] time to embrace the qualifiers blah blah blah and when we get knocked out there sure there ll be f*** all paying attention anyway. Yet I m glad he s staying on because a lot of Mayo football people wanted and needed this. My biggest problem is that we wont see McDonald again but hey you cant make an omelette without breakin eggs, right? '
Quote from: moysider on September 02, 2008, 11:49:35 PM
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Anyway that s that. At least this closure is a good thing but not sure I like the man s tone. From what was reported he got an easy enough ride from the club representatives yet his replies were peevish enough. They were reminiscent of Stan s 'Well what would you have done '? variety and showed scant regard for those of us who care and would like a decent review of the year. And this business again of ' if anybody feels they can do a better job... ' What is that? Well yes John I think I would have done better because you got a few things badly wrong and very little right. A Gom could have got what he got right right..... so what your next move? That bothers me because he must know he did nt do a good job this year and yet he says this again weeks after he said it in what could be explained away as down to the immediate aftermath of a defeat moment. It looks like he was prepared for a grilling but nobody was in the mood for a row.
As for the delegates that proposed 3 further years. Dunno whats going on there but I have my doubts. Anyway the train will pull out again and there will be no real concern until we lose out to Galway in Salthill next Summer. But that ll be easily explained away. We always lose there right? no magic wand, we we re nt listening to what he said when he got the job [ what he did say was that he would build a platform where we would get back to a final] time to embrace the qualifiers blah blah blah and when we get knocked out there sure there ll be f*** all paying attention anyway. Yet I m glad he s staying on because a lot of Mayo football people wanted and needed this. My biggest problem is that we wont see McDonald again but hey you cant make an omelette without breakin eggs, right? '
lads is there any chance that this thread can be closed?
ehhh no no till Omahony jumps ship or is Pushed . any one got any good books on hari-kiri we can send him?
his constant whinging
'If anybody feels they can do a better job...'
shows what kind of a bully he is and why he cant get on with players with character . the missing ingredient of this and last years team showing itself in losing games after game we should have won .I think Tyrone subsequent performances have shown what an opportunity Mayo Squandered this year by not moving JOM on sooner.
Every weak decision has a cost and don't be too surprised he gets an easy ride from hs buddies in the county board they are the fools that appointed him and shafted M&M in the 1st place.
On that at least the Lie that Moran and morrisson Quit because they fell out with each other has been nailed. was never true but spread by the usual jOM apologists , you know who you are hang your heads!
Quote from: cadhlancian on September 03, 2008, 12:03:42 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 02, 2008, 11:49:35 PM
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Anyway that s that. At least this closure is a good thing but not sure I like the man s tone. From what was reported he got an easy enough ride from the club representatives yet his replies were peevish enough. They were reminiscent of Stan s 'Well what would you have done '? variety and showed scant regard for those of us who care and would like a decent review of the year. And this business again of ' if anybody feels they can do a better job... ' What is that? Well yes John I think I would have done better because you got a few things badly wrong and very little right. A Gom could have got what he got right right..... so what your next move? That bothers me because he must know he did nt do a good job this year and yet he says this again weeks after he said it in what could be explained away as down to the immediate aftermath of a defeat moment. It looks like he was prepared for a grilling but nobody was in the mood for a row.
As for the delegates that proposed 3 further years. Dunno whats going on there but I have my doubts. Anyway the train will pull out again and there will be no real concern until we lose out to Galway in Salthill next Summer. But that ll be easily explained away. We always lose there right? no magic wand, we we re nt listening to what he said when he got the job [ what he did say was that he would build a platform where we would get back to a final] time to embrace the qualifiers blah blah blah and when we get knocked out there sure there ll be f*** all paying attention anyway. Yet I m glad he s staying on because a lot of Mayo football people wanted and needed this. My biggest problem is that we wont see McDonald again but hey you cant make an omelette without breakin eggs, right? '
lads is there any chance that this thread can be closed?
No. Now f**k off and concentrate on getting Kevin Hughes not picked for the Tyrone team. P**** like you does nt deserve Hughes or the rest of the Tyrone players. I was hopin to see Tyrone beat Kerry but if it make a Gob***** like you any happier I ll reconsider. How dare you?
Quote from: moysider on September 03, 2008, 12:32:50 AM
Quote from: cadhlancian on September 03, 2008, 12:03:42 AM
Quote from: moysider on September 02, 2008, 11:49:35 PM
Quote from: Barney on September 02, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
QuoteMAYO manager John O'Mahony confirmed last night that he will be staying on for the third year of his three-year term and will lead Mayo into the 2009 season.
Speaking at a monthly Mayo GAA Board meeting in Castlebar, O'Mahony told club delegates that he "needed to take stock" after the All-Ireland Qualifier defeat to Tyrone. However, he informed Mayo GAA officials last Friday evening that he intended to remain on as Mayo manager.
"I feel we've made progress," he told the assembled delegates. "I said when I took the job that it'd be a challenging job...We're trying to get a real team ethic where everybody works for everybody else. Some players have bought into that more than others, some have fallen along the way...The thing about it is that everybody shares in the success. I felt after the Tyrone match that everybody needed to take stock. I would die happy if I could bring the success we all crave."
After he had finished addressing the delegates, the Mayo manager took questions from the floor on a range of issues and topics, ranging from the closed season to the central positions on the senior team.
Mayo Oifigeach na Gaeilge, Piaras Ó Raghallaigh, suggested that many delegates would have been 'disappointed' with Mayo's progress over the last two seasons.
"Anyone with that view might not have been listening when I took over the team," replied O'Mahony. "I said I had no magic wand. We'd been in four All-Ireland finals without success and what we're looking to do is build a platform to get back to that stage again.
"We have to hold the nerve. I was frustrated not to push on [this year]. I was disappointed. And when you don't have a Connacht title to show for the work, maybe that's a fair comment... If anybody feels they can do a better job...
"I didn't promise in 2006 that I'd have an All-Ireland in 2007 or 2008. We all want success...I'm not naïve enough to say that if we'd beaten Tyrone we'd be in the All-Ireland final now. But I would feel that we had enough ball in the fifteen minutes after half-time to win that game. We got no breaks, refereeing or otherwise, but we had the winning of the game in our own hands."
Following this response, a number of delegates suggested that O'Mahony be given an additional three-year term so that he could continue to build a Mayo team for the future.
The Mayo boss was given a round of applause as he left the meeting.
Anyway that s that. At least this closure is a good thing but not sure I like the man s tone. From what was reported he got an easy enough ride from the club representatives yet his replies were peevish enough. They were reminiscent of Stan s 'Well what would you have done '? variety and showed scant regard for those of us who care and would like a decent review of the year. And this business again of ' if anybody feels they can do a better job... ' What is that? Well yes John I think I would have done better because you got a few things badly wrong and very little right. A Gom could have got what he got right right..... so what your next move? That bothers me because he must know he did nt do a good job this year and yet he says this again weeks after he said it in what could be explained away as down to the immediate aftermath of a defeat moment. It looks like he was prepared for a grilling but nobody was in the mood for a row.
As for the delegates that proposed 3 further years. Dunno whats going on there but I have my doubts. Anyway the train will pull out again and there will be no real concern until we lose out to Galway in Salthill next Summer. But that ll be easily explained away. We always lose there right? no magic wand, we we re nt listening to what he said when he got the job [ what he did say was that he would build a platform where we would get back to a final] time to embrace the qualifiers blah blah blah and when we get knocked out there sure there ll be f*** all paying attention anyway. Yet I m glad he s staying on because a lot of Mayo football people wanted and needed this. My biggest problem is that we wont see McDonald again but hey you cant make an omelette without breakin eggs, right? '
lads is there any chance that this thread can be closed?
No. Now f**k off and concentrate on getting Kevin Hughes not picked for the Tyrone team. P**** like you does nt deserve Hughes or the rest of the Tyrone players. I was hopin to see Tyrone beat Kerry but if it make a Gob***** like you any happier I ll reconsider. How dare you?
You tell him Moysider ;D We'll finish talking about 2008 when we decide, not when some gobsheen like you decides
Quote from: rosnarun on September 03, 2008, 12:29:59 AM
On that at least the Lie that Moran and morrisson Quit because they fell out with each other has been nailed.
Ye was thinking the same thing myself ros , and go on ya boy ya moysider ;)
Is jom interested?
Maybe his players are too soft, we are becoming a bunch of wimps on the field. Conor mort pushed around by the tyrone "player" mcmenamin and nobody levelled him for it.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 02, 2008, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: kevmy on September 02, 2008, 04:48:31 PM
In fairness we didn't get a lot of breaks from the ref in that game. Campbell was blown up for taking the ball off the ground on the Tyrone end line when he clearly put the toe under it.
Having said that we shouldn't have needed any reffering breaks in that game and I'd say from the way Johhno is talking there he knows it to.
I'd say it's a little early to give him another 3 years yet ;)
But we'll see where we are this time next year. A Connacht title and/or a semi final appearance are within our grasp as realistic targets next imo
Jesus your been far too optimistic there Kevmy, remember john o's mantra ;)
I hope that's sarcasm there Deel Rover cos we threw away a Connacht this year by giving the Herron Chokers a 20 min head start and played sh1te against Tyrone and still should have got to a AI quarter final.
I think some people are picking and choosing what they want from Johnno's reported statement. His supporters will take the good stuff and his opponents will take the dodgy stuff.
What I propose is for all of us to A) accept the fact JOM is managing for another year, B) leave the seniors alone for a couple of months as talking too much about next year now is a bit frivolous, C) get behind the minors in a couple of weeks time and D) when FBD and the league come next year everyone get out in support.
People where giving out last year about poor atmosphere around the county. Well only fans can build to up so regardless of who's managing or who's playing we should get totally behind the lads next summer and hopefully we'll get a fairly long one out of them
MAIGH EO ABÚ
Quote from: kevmy on September 03, 2008, 10:51:17 AM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on September 02, 2008, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: kevmy on September 02, 2008, 04:48:31 PM
I hope that's sarcasm there Deel Rover cos we threw away a Connacht this year by giving the Herron Chokers a 20 min head start and played sh1te against Tyrone and still should have got to a AI quarter final.
I think some people are picking and choosing what they want from Johnno's reported statement. His supporters will take the good stuff and his opponents will take the dodgy stuff.
What I propose is for all of us to A) accept the fact JOM is managing for another year, B) leave the seniors alone for a couple of months as talking too much about next year now is a bit frivolous, C) get behind the minors in a couple of weeks time and D) when FBD and the league come next year everyone get out in support.
People where giving out last year about poor atmosphere around the county. Well only fans can build to up so regardless of who's managing or who's playing we should get totally behind the lads next summer and hopefully we'll get a fairly long one out of them
MAIGH EO ABÚ
aye it was a touch of sarcasm Kevmy
QuoteNo. Now f**k off and concentrate on getting Kevin Hughes not picked for the Tyrone team. P**** like you does nt deserve Hughes or the rest of the Tyrone players. I was hopin to see Tyrone beat Kerry but if it make a Gob***** like you any happier I ll reconsider. How dare you?
That's the style, Moysider! You tell him!
Janey Mac; there I was in me last post sorta half-apologising for comin' back to give the pot another stir and using McStay and Sean Rice to back me up.
I don't think any Mayo supporter here needs to be told when its time to shut up.
Quote
I think some people are picking and choosing what they want from Johnno's reported statement. His supporters will take the good stuff and his opponents will take the dodgy stuff.
That's right, kevmy, and that is the way it has been for everyone since the beginning of time. People pick up on what they see as important and play down what they see as getting in the way.
Johnno's case is no different to any other.
He was never going to get things easy in Mayo, no matter what he did. But he knew what he was letting himself in for when he took the job and he certainly took long enough to make his mind up before accepting the position.
Now, I won't ever criticise him too much for what he has done in the last two years because I feel he has done sweet damn all. :P
What he has said and what others have said in his favour does concern me a good deal at times. But I've been down that road too often to go on about it any more.
Right now, he has got the backing of the board for another year. I've no doubt at all that relations between him and the board are strained and that can hardly help matters. Another problem is that he is now working within a very limited time frame- can he do anything in one more year than he accomplished in the last two?
The point hasn't escaped me that he took over in 2006 in a far healthier position than he finds himself in now. Back then, he has a solid nucleus of seasoned players who had battled through to the finals of 2004 and '06 and he had a very promising bunch of good U21 lads coming through as well.
That's a position many managers wouldn't mind finding themselves in.
Maybe the poor devil is doing his best and that's what worries me. :D
JoM needs to get rid of that political way of managing and deliberating and making statements - am i the only one that thinks he is gone into that middle of the road position that politicians have come to embrace - always have something to say without saying anything (and then we all try to second guess if it actually means somethin) - don't make any rash decisions - try to keep all sides happy - and so on..... right decision by both JOM and County Board but would be great too see less of the nice guy and a few more actions to move things along. We haven't moved to far forward in 2 years (mostly sideways) so it has to happen in Y3.....
Mayo go back to work this month as clubs debate Croker 'windfall'
Mike Finnerty
MAYO manager John O'Mahony will begin his preparation for next season later this month, he told club delegates at last night's meeting of the Mayo GAA Board.
Along with his selectors Tommy Lyons and Kieran Gallagher, and the Mayo team's statistician Martin Carney, O'Mahony said that he intends to get the ball rolling for the 2009 season as soon as possible.
"Myself and the management team hope to meet with the players in the next few weeks, and hold trials later in the year so that we can identify a group to go forward into the FBD League and National League," he explained.
"There are a lot of opinions out there...Some people feel a new team is needed, others feel certain older players should stay on. What we're trying to do is blend young and old players together, young players need a guiding hand. Some people showed up well during the year and some didn't...Sport is not an exact science."
The Mayo manager also answered a number of questions from delegates who asked O'Mahony for his thoughts on a range of issues, including the central positions on the senior team, the Sigerson Cup's affect on Mayo players, and the team's progress under his tenure.
Swinford delegate, Peter Geraghty, began the debate when he asked if the Mayo manager was happy with the spine of his team at this moment in time.
"I'd love to get solutions," replied O'Mahony. "You've seen all the players we've tried, the teams we've put out. It's our wish to try and settle these positions. If you know a list of people that can play right down the middle, I'd like to see it. If they're out there, I want to know."
Ballinrobe delegate Billy Horan was also among the delegates who spoke. He asked the Mayo manager if he would have expectations that some of this year's minor team could break through to senior football in the near future.
"I was sitting in the stand last weekend and hoping that a lot of them would grow up quickly," O'Mahony said with a smile. "What really impressed me was the manner of their win, the way they went about their business as a team.
"The way they worked for each other, battled for each other. They maximise their ability as a team and that's what I'd love to our senior team doing. Yes, I do think there's hope for the future."
MEANWHILE, Mayo GAA Board Chairman, James Waldron also told delegates that the clubs of the county were to receive €250,000 over three years from Croke Park as a result of the stadium being opened up to rugby and soccer last year.
The meeting was told that every county in Ireland would receive the same amount of money (approximately €83,000 per year for three years) which would be divided between four clubs per year that were undertaking major developments.
A number of delegates expressed their disappointment with the amount of money being given back to clubs, and also with the fact that every club would not benefit in some way from the windfall. "We were led a merry dance," remarked one club delegate.
The County Board asked the assembled delegates to consider giving some, or all, of this year's allocation towards developing and upgrading training pitches at Mulvey Park, Castlebar. However, following a lengthy debate it was decided that all the money would be distributed between four clubs this year.
The clubs in question will be decided upon at a later date.
This is part of Johnno s county board response to some pretty innocent questions. Again there is the defensive stance when it is nt really necessary. I ve highlighted a few things that I would have issue with but I m only going to comment about one of them.
Trial games - that word again. Wonder will McDonald be invited along? What does he need trial games for? The dogs in the street could pick 25 of his 30 Championship panel for next years Championship without trial matches right here and now. You d think he d had learn t his lesson by now on this meaningless bladder. He must still think the MWR listeners of 3 years ago are typical Mayo fans. Feed them any ould parochial hall guff and they ll love it.
I don't have a problem with Trial games, if by Trial games he means a trying to figure out if a couple of stand out club players and U-21's are up to the standard of the rest of the established county players.
The thing about managing at this level is that there will always be people who reckon that certain players (that put in great performances for their club) should be involved and will grumble at their non inclusion. A couple of games marking Conor Mort, Ronan McGarrity or Keith Higgins would tell if they're up to the required standard, if they are throw them a couple of FBD or league games and see if they're still up to it.
We all have a fair idea of who the best 25 players are and know that they will be there or thereabouts, they are the established ones, but surely there's no harm in throwing it open to a couple of others and see how they do?
Quote from: stephenite on September 04, 2008, 01:01:50 AM
I don't have a problem with Trial games, if by Trial games he means a trying to figure out if a couple of stand out club players and U-21's are up to the standard of the rest of the established county players.
The thing about managing at this level is that there will always be people who reckon that certain players (that put in great performances for their club) should be involved and will grumble at their non inclusion. A couple of games marking Conor Mort, Ronan McGarrity or Keith Higgins would tell if they're up to the required standard, if they are throw them a couple of FBD or league games and see if they're still up to it.
We all have a fair idea of who the best 25 players are and know that they will be there or thereabouts, they are the established ones, but surely there's no harm in throwing it open to a couple of others and see how they do?
True. And I could suggest a few players from junior clubs or whatever. Even there the quality players are fairly obvious and it would be more meaningful to bring them along for a while and suss them out in training. My gripe is that this trial games stuff is just another ploy to appease the masses. Y know ' we trolled the width and breath of the county' and ' if you know somebody better' spiel. I would prefer if he concentrated on getting his selections and tactics and attitude right for the Galway games etc. Everybody knows who the personnel are.
Quote from: moysider on September 04, 2008, 01:39:18 AM
Quote from: stephenite on September 04, 2008, 01:01:50 AM
I don't have a problem with Trial games, if by Trial games he means a trying to figure out if a couple of stand out club players and U-21's are up to the standard of the rest of the established county players.
The thing about managing at this level is that there will always be people who reckon that certain players (that put in great performances for their club) should be involved and will grumble at their non inclusion. A couple of games marking Conor Mort, Ronan McGarrity or Keith Higgins would tell if they're up to the required standard, if they are throw them a couple of FBD or league games and see if they're still up to it.
We all have a fair idea of who the best 25 players are and know that they will be there or thereabouts, they are the established ones, but surely there's no harm in throwing it open to a couple of others and see how they do?
True. And I could suggest a few players from junior clubs or whatever. Even there the quality players are fairly obvious and it would be more meaningful to bring them along for a while and suss them out in training. My gripe is that this trial games stuff is just another ploy to appease the masses. Y know ' we trolled the width and breath of the county' and ' if you know somebody better' spiel. I would prefer if he concentrated on getting his selections and tactics and attitude right for the Galway games etc. Everybody knows who the personnel are.
Did you have a problem with Moran and Morrison having trial games? I don't see what your gripe is here moysider. Surely trial games are as good a way as any to bring in 4 or 5 'there or thereabouts' players and see if they can handle a match against the established county lads?
QuoteDid you have a problem with Moran and Morrison having trial games? I don't see what your gripe is here moysider. Surely trial games are as good a way as any to bring in 4 or 5 'there or thereabouts' players and see if they can handle a match against the established county lads?
Trial games are a necessary part of picking a panel every year to find players for sevearl reasons
1) see if former minor and U21 stars still have what it take interms of speed intrest and hunger
2) players who were ignored or not good enough or from the 'wrong club' at underage level and have come on sense
3) humiliate senior players who have got too big for their boots
I know trial games are part and parcel of the whole business. They are a useful tool of course. They can be used to justify either keeping or getting rid of somebody. The word trial is a bad word to start with but I suppose we can put up with that.
Management should be well aware of who can do what from the U21 teams and most clubs.
Who would ye lads suggest should be brought along for trials - hate that word.
Just looking at the buzz over on the Steven O Neill thread and it struck me how many of us [ not all] were waiting for a similar boost during the Summer.
Some saddos will bring out the calender again here but other counties recognise class. We might have only lost to Tyrone by a point but in reality there s light years between us in footballing terms as to how ambitious and competent we are at managing the game in our respective counties.
Some people have questioned my crankiness. I see no reason for optimism apart from our resources of players. I m not sure we ll deploy them any better than recent years. It s alright fellas callin for support for FBD, League etc - and many of us have been there for years and probably will be again. But don't tell us to be positive and optimistic when form tells us next year will be more of the same.
For me the last 2 champ games v Galway have been damning. These lads grew up together in Colleges etc. You would have expected Johnno to have the inside track on Galway but...... They knew each other well and each time Mayo were blitzed early and spent he rest of the match chasing respectability. This was at least partly down to whimsical and even an arrogant selection policy. This year they got some respectability but still we were put in our place - at home. What s going to be different next year? If we get to play Galway it will be in Salthill and Galway will hardly accomodate us there. I ll go along now and saw that nothing will change. I believe we ll be beaten in Connacht by Galway and thats all she wrote. Pessimistic? .......No. I ve been there before. Realistic.
Quote from: moysider on September 04, 2008, 10:56:21 PM
I know trial games are part and parcel of the whole business. They are a useful tool of course. They can be used to justify either keeping or getting rid of somebody. The word trial is a bad word to start with but I suppose we can put up with that.
I agree, I don't think trial is the right word to use either and I don't think players literally are on trial in terms of 'show me your bag of tricks'. They are there to demonstrate hunger and general ability to live with the standard of current squad players. Of course there is the old chestnut of asking former established players along to these games but plenty of time has been devoted to that already!
Our playing resources are my cause for optimism, we do have good young players on the way as the minors are showing. It would be great if some of them horse the bacon and cabbage into them over the winter and were ready for senior next year but realistically we won't be seeing most of them for a couple of years.
I suppose trial games have their uses but I don't think too much should be read into individual displays in those trials.
Suppose a player is invited along who has been displaying good club form. He has been producing solid consistent displays as part of a settled formation where he has built up an understanding with those around him.
Now if he is stuck into a trial match he is expected to produce the same level of excellence when playing alongside individuals with whom he has had little or no experience of playing with.
What if some other players on his side deliberately decide not to fully co-operate with him? This has been known to happen, maybe because of personal animosity or to further the chances of someone else.
If his chances are to be based on his display in one trial match alone it could be hard to judge his true ability. Wouldn't it be a better idea to bring him along to a few squad sessions first so he could have a reasonable chance of 'bedding in' with those around him?
Its probably much easier to playyour self out of the squad in a trial game rather than into it . if a young buck comes in and looks slow and akward in a trial game he's probably finished at inter county level whereas if he looks sprightly and enthusiastic the best hell do is get another look
none of the about applies to the twlight zone inhiblted by Austin O malley