1. Dublin
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Big Gap
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2. Laois
3. Wexford
4. WestMeath
5. Meath
Nothing betweeen these teams and either could beat the other on any given day
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6. Wicklow
7. Longford
8. Offaly
9. Kildare
10. Louth
Likewise on any given day games between these 5 would be very tight but just not consistent enough to compete with the top 5
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11. Carlow
Leinster really has evolved into a 4 tier structure and the gap between tiers really isn't doing Leinster football any favours. Dublin are the only team in the province with any real ambitions of an All-Ireland whereas you look at the other provinces and each province has at least 2 serious All-Ireland contenders and if any of the 2nd tier Leinster counties competed in another province how many of those would you expect to be realistically challenging for an Ulster, Connacht or Munster title. It's 7 years since a Leinster team has been in an All-Ireland final, 2001 but only 7 years ago Kildare and Offaly were able to compete with and regularly beat Dublin and Meath, today they are pale shadows of themsleves. What is going wrong with Leinster football or like all things in life is this just a cyclical phase?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 09, 2008, 12:36:24 PM
Dublin are the only team in the province with any real ambitions of an All-Ireland
Now Dinny, if you were a Dub saying that you would be accused of arrogance ;)
Honestly I think Dublin have a long way to go to win Leinster this year.
Westmeath will be a huge step up from Louth, and Laois or Wexford could well turn us over in the final.
I think Dinny is spot-on for once, it must be the brains he got with fatherhood. You'll be getting them too shortly, I believe, Holiness; that will be an ease to us all too. :P
I think Meath are every bit as good as the dubs and better this year. they were caught on the hop by wexford. i'd fancy meath to be the last leinster team to be still in the championship
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2008, 01:25:50 PM
I think Dinny is spot-on for once, it must be the brains he got with fatherhood. You'll be getting them too shortly, I believe, Holiness; that will be an ease to us all too. :P
;)
On a side note, credit to her holiness, due in 2 weeks and refused the disabled lift to the upper cusack yesterday, ramps all the way!
Quote from: Uladh on June 09, 2008, 01:28:13 PM
I think Meath are every bit as good as the dubs and better this year. they were caught on the hop by wexford. i'd fancy meath to be the last leinster team to be still in the championship
Good man yourself. I think so too but I can't say it out loud or I get Vietnam-style flashbacks to the last 20 minutes in Dr Cullen Park. :'(
QuoteOn a side note, credit to her holiness, due in 2 weeks and refused the disabled lift to the upper cusack yesterday, ramps all the way!
Sadly, there's no guarantee of brains with motherhood. I'll get me coat. ::)
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2008, 01:46:48 PM
QuoteOn a side note, credit to her holiness, due in 2 weeks and refused the disabled lift to the upper cusack yesterday, ramps all the way!
Sadly, there's no guarantee of brains with motherhood. I'll get me coat. ::)
Oi, I'll be asking you to step outside if you keep that up !
Sorry Holiness, just ribbing. I know you're probably sensitive about fathering a Meath-person. :P
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2008, 01:57:21 PM
Sorry Holiness, just ribbing. I know you're probably sensitive about fathering a Meath-person. :P
right OUTSIDE!!! >:( >:( >:(
;)
Quote from: Uladh on June 09, 2008, 01:28:13 PM
I think Meath are every bit as good as the dubs and better this year. they were caught on the hop by wexford. i'd fancy meath to be the last leinster team to be still in the championship
I'd largely agree with that. Dubs are still slightly ahead of them at the moment, but Meath are coming, and I'd be very surprised if they are not in the quarter-final draw.
Also on any given day, Laois, Wexford, Westmeath would be capable of beating the dubs if they had a good day and forced the Dubs to have a below par day.
Quote from: his holiness nb on June 09, 2008, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on June 09, 2008, 01:57:21 PM
Sorry Holiness, just ribbing. I know you're probably sensitive about fathering a Meath-person. :P
right OUTSIDE!!! >:( >:( >:(
;)
Yeah, Be sure to get him/her a nice green jersey, wouldnt want them to be the odd one out starting school
I think this year will definitely signal the end of Dublins Leinster dominance. But I think they can win the All-Ireland and a few lads might retire on the back of it.
Ah the Dublin lads been modest and playing down there chances. Meath did well last year but struggled in Division 2 winning only 3 games and honestly can anyone imagine Kerry, Galway, Cork, Derry, Armagh or Tyrone leading Wexford by 10 points with 20 minutes left and losing the game.
The Dubs are fearful of been confident in case it gets mis-placed for arrogance and with the general abuse they get here it's hard not to see why they would like to big up other teams. Dublin need a hard Leinster Semi and an even harder Leinster final maybe even lose one, Dublin need to know there best 15 heading into the All-Ireland series and I'm afraid that Leinster mighten help them in that regard.
Quote
I think Meath are every bit as good as the dubs and better this year. they were caught on the hop by wexford. i'd fancy meath to be the last leinster team to be still in the championship
Uladh, you do realise you tipped Kildare to win Leinster, you are slowly becoming Cassandra and eventually even when right no-one will believe your predictions. :P
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 09, 2008, 02:59:26 PM
Ah the Dublin lads been modest and playing down there chances. Meath did well last year but struggled in Division 2 winning only 3 games and honestly can anyone imagine Kerry, Galway, Cork, Derry, Armagh or Tyrone leading Wexford by 10 points with 20 minutes left and losing the game.
The Dubs are fearful of been confident in case it gets mis-placed for arrogance and with the general abuse they get here it's hard not to see why they would like to big up other teams. Dublin need a hard Leinster Semi and an even harder Leinster final maybe even lose one, Dublin need to know there best 15 heading into the All-Ireland series and I'm afraid that Leinster mighten help them in that regard.
Quote
I think Meath are every bit as good as the dubs and better this year. they were caught on the hop by wexford. i'd fancy meath to be the last leinster team to be still in the championship
Uladh, you do realise you tipped Kildare to win Leinster, you are slowly becoming Cassandra and eventually even when right no-one will believe your predictions. :P
We've never placed much emphasis on the league. We hammered Armagh, yet you would probably hold them up as someone with title aspirations. As for what happened us against Wexford I honestly think the players and management will come out of it all the better for the experience. We were decimated with injuries and suspensions don't forget yet the team we put out still should have beaten Wexford out the gate only for the 20 minute meltdown at the end. If you asked a Dub would he rather face us in a Leinster final or any of the other 2nd tier teams you listed what do you think the answer would be?
Quote from: Jinxy on June 09, 2008, 03:08:34 PM
If you asked a Dub would he rather face us in a Leinster final or any of the other 2nd tier teams you listed what do you think the answer would be?
Of the "2nd tier" teams I would prefer to get Meath in a Leinster final.
Most likely team to beat us, but would still prefer to play them.
I would agree with previous posters, I'd be surprised if Meath didnt make at least the 1/4 finals.
Another thing. Meath look the least fit team I've seen in the championship so far. They were completely leaden-footed in the last 20 minutes in Carlow as Wexford ran rings around them. I don't know whether that's a backfired attempt at timing for peak fitness or just bad fitness training.
Here would be my rankings for the All Ireland... I'll go through the top 15 odd...
1. Kerry
2. Derry
3. Galway
4. Armagh
5. Dublin
Donegal, Westmeath, Fermanagh, Dublin
Wexford (Would have been in the group above only for their first half against Meath), Cork, Down, Tyrone, Mayo, Laois, Monaghan, Meath all in a group with any one capable of upsetting the other.
Fermanagh possibly above their station but I was impressed with their performance against Monaghan and while individually they wouldn't be as strong as a lot of teams, their manager as very shred tactically and has them very organised and as a group they perform above their individual ability!
Anyway just firing it out for discussion. What do the rest of you think?
If Dublin want to win the All-Ireland, they would of course love to play Meath, it's the type of that seperates the boys from the men and prepare them for bigger battles further on and the same logic of course applies to Meath. I just don't rate Meath as highly as some posters too many questions over there defence and discipline for my liking and I believe Colm Coyle is struggling with the pressure, never looks happy that man.
Quote
Here would be my rankings for the All Ireland... I'll go through the top 15 odd...
1. Kerry
2. Derry
3. Galway
4. Armagh
5. Dublin
Dublin aren't that far away you know.
1.Kerry
2. Dublin
3. Derry
4. Galway
5. Cork
QuoteWould have been in the group above only for their first half against Meath
What about Derry's first half against Donegal?
I think the four provincial winners, at present, look like:
Kerry
Galway
Dublin
Derry
I'd be thinking that the qualifers are likely to throw up QFs as follows (depending on the draw etc.)
Cork
Mayo
Tyrone
Meath
If there's a surprise, I think it'll be Wexford/Fermanagh. Of that 10, I can't see past Kerry at present, though we're unlikely to see the real Kerry until August.
Lads I'm not sure why you're rating us so highly? We won't go within an asses roar of winning the All-Ireland. One or two things go our way we might make the last four but I would be far from certain of even that.
Fair enough after Kerry I think a lot of the team are much of a muchness on any given day but certainly the likes of Dublin and Derry have to be considered ahead of us. Probably Cork and Tyrone too.
Quote from: screenexile on June 09, 2008, 03:24:13 PM
Here would be my rankings for the All Ireland... I'll go through the top 15 odd...
1. Kerry
2. Derry
3. Galway
4. Armagh
5. Dublin
Donegal, Westmeath, Fermanagh, Dublin
Wexford (Would have been in the group above only for their first half against Meath), Cork, Down, Tyrone, Mayo, Laois, Monaghan, Meath all in a group with any one capable of upsetting the other.
Fermanagh possibly above their station but I was impressed with their performance against Monaghan and while individually they wouldn't be as strong as a lot of teams, their manager as very shred tactically and has them very organised and as a group they perform above their individual ability!
Anyway just firing it out for discussion. What do the rest of you think?
I'm baffled as to how anyone can have Armagh ahead of Dublin. Based on what exactly?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 09, 2008, 04:19:13 PM
Lads I'm not sure why you're rating us so highly? We won't go within an asses roar of winning the All-Ireland. One or two things go our way we might make the last four but I would be far from certain of even that.
Fair enough after Kerry I think a lot of the team are much of a muchness on any given day but certainly the likes of Dublin and Derry have to be considered ahead of us. Probably Cork and Tyrone too.
Have to agree with all of that GBB. A QF win in Croke Park would be huge progress on the last few years.....................................
its based on the outstanding standard of the ulster championship jinxy it's so superior to everything else.(yeah right) we must remember jinxy that dublin and meath must always tip our hats to the superior standard up north and their one and two all-irelands. how derry can be ranked second with one just one scoring forward is beyond me. to be honest it's kerry well out in front but little to choose between the next 5/6 on any given day. kerry look a better bet than lester piggott on a favourite.
Dinny, I would have put Wexford as number 2 instead of Laois. Of course that will be settled in 2 weeks time.....
QuoteHere would be my rankings for the All Ireland... I'll go through the top 15 odd...
1. Kerry
2. Derry
3. Galway
4. Armagh
5. Dublin
Donegal, Westmeath, Fermanagh, Dublin
Wexford (Would have been in the group above only for their first half against Meath), Cork, Down, Tyrone, Mayo, Laois, Monaghan, Meath all in a group with any one capable of upsetting the other.
Fermanagh possibly above their station but I was impressed with their performance against Monaghan and while individually they wouldn't be as strong as a lot of teams, their manager as very shred tactically and has them very organised and as a group they perform above their individual ability!
Anyway just firing it out for discussion. What do the rest of you think?
I'm baffled as to how anyone can have Armagh ahead of Dublin. Based on what exactly?
Have to agree. Can't see how anyone could put Armagh 4th most likely to wint he All Ireland or ahead of Dublin. Possibly you could go on the league form from Cross but if so, Meath, Monaghan and Westmeath should all be ahead of us. I have us 4th or 5th in Ulster at the minute to be honest although I'm still hoping we can make an Ulster final and give Derry a right good rattle.
QuoteDinny, I would have put Wexford as number 2 instead of Laois. Of course that will be settled in 2 weeks time
Before the Meath game yes but that game leaves a lot of questions over Wexford, always thought Wexford would win just not in that manner.
Quotehow derry can be ranked second with one just one scoring forward is beyond me
You could probably say the same about Dublin, i.e Brogan. Of the Derry forwards the two Bradleys and Muldoon would walk into the Dublin forward line and Mark Lynch is a far better player than Collie Moran.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 09, 2008, 02:59:26 PM
Uladh, you do realise you tipped Kildare to win Leinster, you are slowly becoming Cassandra and eventually even when right no-one will believe your predictions. :P
have to hold my hands up there boss!
you didn't disagree with me by the way...
eoin bradley is a better forward than bernard brogan, connolly, keaney,quinn on current form? i don't think so dinny. he wasn't much use against us last year either dinny, hiis reputation is just that -solely based on reputation it's not on substance thus far so i think that's way off the mark. moran plays as a defensive forward as we're playing with only 5 forwards so he wouldn't displace him either
Muldoon has the talent to get on any team but it's apity derry don't use him in front of the goal because he's badly needed there. they won't get away with paddy bradley doing the damage all the time, despite the fact he is rapidly becoming the best forward in ireland in my view.
Quoteeoin bradley is a better forward than bernard brogan, connolly, keaney,quinn on current form
What has Brogan Jnr done this year, Quinn is impressive against poor teams and fails to rise to the occasion when needed, I'll be honest and say I haven't seen enough of Connolly to judge, I do like Keaney, can take his scores, good work rate and attitude. Bradley didn't start against Dublin last year, so you can hardly judge him on that by the way. I just like the look of that Derry and by beating Kerry in a national final (When did Dublin last do that?) I think they've laid a marker, only time will tell.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2008, 09:22:20 AM
What has Brogan Jnr done this year
In fairness Dinny, he has been Dublin best forward and top scorer during the league.
I'm not going to get into comparisons about who is better as they are a waste of time, but fair is fair.
QuoteIn fairness Dinny, he has been Dublin best forward and top scorer during the league.
So league form is a good guide to a players form yet Derry are dismissed even though they are league champions ???
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 09, 2008, 11:43:46 PM
Quotehow derry can be ranked second with one just one scoring forward is beyond me
You could probably say the same about Dublin, i.e Brogan. Of the Derry forwards the two Bradleys and Muldoon would walk into the Dublin forward line and Mark Lynch is a far better player than Collie Moran.
Bradley and Muldoon would get in but Eoin Bradley and Mark Lynch wouldn't get in - have done nothign yet to deserve a place.
you couldn't have been watching the donegal game dinny because, his shot selection at times was questionable. that's the difference between the best forwards and the rest. bernard has been dublin's best forward this year, and has a proven championship record last year. eoin bradley strikes me as the sort of player who could score 1-7 one day and then draw a blank the next day. bernard will score consistently more often than not.
Sorry I seemed to miss all the craic on this thread today. My theory behind having Armagh top 5 is that they still have the players and the hunger to drive for that elusive 2nd all Ireland. People forget they were massively unlucky against both us and Donegal last year and I see them making waves this year.
As for the tribesmen well I liked the look of them against us in the league and I felt they were capable of putting a decent run together this year. Obviously expectation within the County isn't too high but I think they will be hard enough to stop.
As for the Dubs forwards v Derry forwards I've played against both sets of players and I can tell you that Quinn (bottler), Keaney (did nothing last year against us and very over rated!), Connolly, Moran (actually could do a job in a weak Dub HB line but not a forward) and Jayo aren't up to it. Brogans are all you've got.
Paul Murphy couldn't be marked last year against us and you were lucky he was injured. Paddy couldn't be marked, Eoin when he came on caused havoc by chose the wrong option and Devlin chipped in with a couple of nice points as well. Add to that this year with Gilligan playing well, Lynch improving every game and Muldoon playing great stuff as well that's 7 decent forwards we have and some real competition for places... Another thing the Dubs don't really have... please don't mention Vaughan.
you've just proved my point on eoin bradley screen "wrong option" that's the difference between the good ones and the rest. for me he generally takes the wrong option so there in ends that debate. Devlin wouldn't make the top 8 in the dublin forwards, if he can't get in the derry forward line he wouldn't get in ours. The Lynch improving every game is something we've heard every year for the last 5 years but when's he going to deliver? again wouldn't worry about him if we were playing derry. he simply isn't rated outside derry. you've got muldoon and bradley and that's it pretty much it.
so that's makes us about equal! don;t kid yourself into thinking that those players are better than the other dublin forwards because they aren't.
Ok I'll give you the wrong option thing with Bradley as it does my head in as well but some of these days he'll realise that he's got a footballing brain and things will begin to happen (hopefully sooner rather than later).
As for Devlin and Lynch well Devlin has been injured all year and has only really been back for a month. When a man is out for that length of time and the team are winning it can be difficult for him to break back in. He showed last year that he is quality and when he does get a run out he will do the same again. As for Lynch and "the last 5 years", well Lynch was still a minor 5 years ago and I think this is only his third year in the Senior panel so we'll see how it progresses. As for being worried about outside Derry? Well you can ask any of the college teams in the Sigerson if they worried too much about him since he was practically the player of the tournament!
I think we went through this whole song and dance last year you, I and Dubsforsam about who had the better players and the fact I believed that Dublin didn't have as much individual talent but were better as a unit than Derry. Personally I believe this year we would be stronger as a unit and I would be confident we would beat you this year should our paths meet. Actually I hope that happens because it would be towards the tail end of the championship which would mean we've done well. Anyway I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this occasion.