gaaboard.com

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/04/14/britain-to-suffer-biggest-economic-shock-in-g7-from-energy/
Britain faces the biggest economic shock in the G7 this year, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
In a triple blow for Rachel Reeves, the IMF cut its UK growth forecasts for this year and next, warned of the highest inflation in the G7 and predicted one of the smallest increases in living standards in the world

Quote from: seafoid on April 15, 2026, 08:15:20 AMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/04/14/britain-to-suffer-biggest-economic-shock-in-g7-from-energy/
Britain faces the biggest economic shock in the G7 this year, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
In a triple blow for Rachel Reeves, the IMF cut its UK growth forecasts for this year and next, warned of the highest inflation in the G7 and predicted one of the smallest increases in living standards in the world

That's Thatchers privatisation for you.

Most of the UK's key infrastructure and resources were sold off, so the likes of the North Sea oil and gas is owned by private companies selling on the global market and that extortionate cost is passed onto the consumer. The UK has some of the highest energy costs in Europe.
Whereas the French in particular still have a lot of their electricity generation etc part owned by the government so can control the cost of energy much better.

Interest rates to go up again, if inflation goes up - which it no doubt will?

If rates go up a few times before the end of year, a recession could hit. 

Quote from: johnnycool on April 15, 2026, 08:27:07 AM

Quote from: seafoid on April 15, 2026, 08:15:20 AMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/04/14/britain-to-suffer-biggest-economic-shock-in-g7-from-energy/
Britain faces the biggest economic shock in the G7 this year, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
In a triple blow for Rachel Reeves, the IMF cut its UK growth forecasts for this year and next, warned of the highest inflation in the G7 and predicted one of the smallest increases in living standards in the world

That's Thatchers privatisation for you.

Most of the UK's key infrastructure and resources were sold off, so the likes of the North Sea oil and gas is owned by private companies selling on the global market and that extortionate cost is passed onto the consumer. The UK has some of the highest energy costs in Europe.
Whereas the French in particular still have a lot of their electricity generation etc part owned by the government so can control the cost of energy much better.

Yeah all the Brits have to do is look at the other side of the North Sea and how Norway have managed it and the sovereign wealth funds they've piled up.

The UK and US elites are interested in one thing and one thing only, transfer of wealth and to hell with anyone born or finds themselves below

Ah, the land of milk and honey, as promised by Thatcher.

Lower taxes, share owning democracy, unions neutered, blah, blah, blah.

The punters fell for it all, in successive general elections.

Result now - increasing taxes, a total decline in overall living standards, a third world level of decaying public services, the price of everything going up, so that the cartels can fleece their customers.

The English are as thick as champ, when it comes to political debate, believing every single yarn that Thatcher, Boris & Farage ever came off with. To some extent they deserve everything they got, post 1979.

You can be sure the City of London is making some serious money at the minute

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/04/labour-welfare-bill-income-tax-revenue/

In the last financial year, the Treasury raised £331bn in income tax. The state also spent £333bn on welfare.

I can only see this metric heading one way and that is the wrong way.

Yes there are genuinely sick / ill people but there are a serious amount of deadbeats milking the system from cradle to grave.

Would like to see how much of that is going to people who are in work but are on such shite pay that they need benefits to top up their income to actually live? Definitely plenty of tossers too lazy to work who should be cut off but would guess they're a minority. "Welfare" includes state pension as well?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/04/14/britain-to-suffer-biggest-economic-shock-in-g7-from-energy/
As Labour faces growing criticism about its response to the fallout of the Iran war, the Fund said the UK's slowdown would be sharper than its industrialised peers "as the impact of higher energy prices linger". Surging energy bills are expected to hit households for at least two years.
Experts also warn that household gas and electricity costs are on course to rise by almost 20pc this summer, taking the average bill close to £2,000 in July.
Pierre-Olivier Gourinchas, the Fund's chief economist, blamed Britain's downgrade on its reliance on gas imports, a lack of storage as well as weak growth at the end of last year in the wake of the Chancellor's £30bn tax raid.


The IMF also warned of the growing risk of "substantial" food price increases as fertiliser shortages hit farmers before the crucial spring planting season.
Inflation is expected to peak at close to 4pc this year, driven by higher gas and electricity bills and rising food prices. This could force the Bank of England to keep interest rates on hold at 3.75pc for the rest of the year.
It warned that living standards would barely grow in the next year, with a rise of 0.3pc in output per person projected to be slower than almost all major economies except South Africa.
Britain's economy is now expected to grow by just 0.8pc this year, down from a previous projection of 1.3pc three months ago.
Growth in 2027 is expected to rise to 1.3pc. However, this is still down from a forecast of 1.5pc in January.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/04/17/imf-uk-cannot-afford-energy-bailout/

Rachel Reeves cannot afford a big energy bailout to help households cope with soaring bills, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2026, 04:26:14 PMWould like to see how much of that is going to people who are in work but are on such shite pay that they need benefits to top up their income to actually live? Definitely plenty of tossers too lazy to work who should be cut off but would guess they're a minority. "Welfare" includes state pension as well?

Think we all know welfare needs a serious looking at but labour hasn't the balls to look at it and cut it

Quote from: naka on April 18, 2026, 08:49:40 AM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2026, 04:26:14 PMWould like to see how much of that is going to people who are in work but are on such shite pay that they need benefits to top up their income to actually live? Definitely plenty of tossers too lazy to work who should be cut off but would guess they're a minority. "Welfare" includes state pension as well?

Think we all know welfare needs a serious looking at but labour hasn't the balls to look at it and cut it

They briefly grew a set of balls by saying they would tackle it and then removed the 2 child benefit cap. It's an amazing world where working people have to factor costs into deciding how many children they can afford but people lying in the house have no such concerns. The benefits system needs a massive overhaul, but like turning NHS around it seems like an impossible task.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 18, 2026, 09:38:37 AMThey briefly grew a set of balls by saying they would tackle it and then removed the 2 child benefit cap. It's an amazing world where working people have to factor costs into deciding how many children they can afford but people lying in the house have no such concerns. The benefits system needs a massive overhaul, but like turning NHS around it seems like an impossible task.

I get it, I really do. But the problem is, its ultimately the kids that suffer, not the (shite) parents.

Not sure what the alternative is. Like going down the line of "if a household has 4 or more kids, never worked and has no income streams outside benefits, then both members of that household should be rendered infertile to stop them having more kids" seems a touch draconian. It stops the kids being the ones suffering and at least stops the problem getting worse - but as said - more than a bit severe!!

Yet what other options are there that don't end up with the kids unduly punished?

But something will have to be done at some point - as actual working families get smaller and the "not-working" families seem to not* - the tax burden will become unsustainable at some point.

*may not be true, could be perception.

A family of three kids, both parents have to earn between them (working) 71,000 a year to match that of the equivalent on benefits..

The games gone, where's the incentives? Workers are actually punished and get nothing 'extra' no priority on doctor appointments, no subsidised public transport, no cheaper rate on other public services that their tax money is providing..

While those who milk the system get free housing benefits cars and can stay in bed till noon!

Well ten more years for me I hope, might drop to a three day week before that though lol

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 18, 2026, 10:09:53 AM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 18, 2026, 09:38:37 AMThey briefly grew a set of balls by saying they would tackle it and then removed the 2 child benefit cap. It's an amazing world where working people have to factor costs into deciding how many children they can afford but people lying in the house have no such concerns. The benefits system needs a massive overhaul, but like turning NHS around it seems like an impossible task.

I get it, I really do. But the problem is, its ultimately the kids that suffer, not the (shite) parents.

Not sure what the alternative is. Like going down the line of "if a household has 4 or more kids, never worked and has no income streams outside benefits, then both members of that household should be rendered infertile to stop them having more kids" seems a touch draconian. It stops the kids being the ones suffering and at least stops the problem getting worse - but as said - more than a bit severe!!

Yet what other options are there that don't end up with the kids unduly punished?

But something will have to be done at some point - as actual working families get smaller and the "not-working" families seem to not* - the tax burden will become unsustainable at some point.

*may not be true, could be perception.

Food stamps and which can not be used for alcohol and cigarettes.

Was in an Asda yesterday evening and seen a few customers walking out with 10 glass bottles and 6 packs of beer and nothing else.  Answers on a postcard as whether they were in working clothes / work uniform or a Sports Direct Tracksuit.

Friday nights shops! I'll have the beer the 25%off wine deals but I'll have some food in there too ;D

https://equalitytrust.org.uk/evidence-base/billionaire-britain-2025/
By 2023, the top 50 richest families in the UK held more wealth than the poorest half of the population, comprising over 34 million 

"Across the UK, 53.3% of people lived in households that were net recipients in FYE 2024. This means that they lived in households that received more in benefits (cash and benefits in kind) than they paid in taxes (direct and indirect)".

That's from the Office of National Statistics & goes some way towards explaining why the UK is, economically speaking, completely fucked.

Quote from: seafoid on April 18, 2026, 04:00:25 PMhttps://equalitytrust.org.uk/evidence-base/billionaire-britain-2025/
By 2023, the top 50 richest families in the UK held more wealth than the poorest half of the population, comprising over 34 million

The elites actually do pinch themselves wondering why they havent been strung up.

They are organised and the plebs are disorganised, so it will continue.

So we continue to vote the same people in, we keep getting the same results and still complain about how things are!

Humans are strange

Quote from: naka on April 18, 2026, 08:49:40 AM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2026, 04:26:14 PMWould like to see how much of that is going to people who are in work but are on such shite pay that they need benefits to top up their income to actually live? Definitely plenty of tossers too lazy to work who should be cut off but would guess they're a minority. "Welfare" includes state pension as well?

Think we all know welfare needs a serious looking at but labour hasn't the balls to look at it and cut it

This is a line peddled by many parties to excuse their incompetence/ self service. As Armagh18 says if people work full time and still don't have enough money to live on then their wages level is the problem. Who gains then? Primarily big business owners. In effect in these cases welfare is helping the better off. I also find it hard to consider cutting the pension for those who have worked all their lifes. But something also has to be done about the scroungers. Is it possible that people have to do some public service work to get benefits? Not sure how that would work but it might encourage people into employment. Obviously there also has to be a caveat for the medically unfit.

A big issue in the UK was the austerity from 2010. If you continue to cut costs, ignore infrastructure deficits etc. eventually the problems will worsen and the costs spiral. And this doesn't even consider the problems with Brexit. The Tories and the cheerleading from Farage has a lot to answer for. I'm no fan of Starmer etc but they have been put in a very deep hole without a ladder.

No party actually wants to tackle the situation as it's a vote loser for them so they'll fob it off instead of dealing with the problem at source..

The nuclear option is no option but it's also not sustainable to continue with the current model

There is work out there, but people don't want to work if they are getting by with what they are used to, then their expectations are too much when they get a job as it doesn't meet their needs or what they think they are worth over the job they actually do

Example, I've tried to get a position filled for the past 18 months, it's in a global company which starts at the ground level. The potential for growth within the role is right to the top (this has happened) or stay at the level you come in or train in other sectors of the company..

So many people have come through and left, various legit reasons mind you that it's actually easier for me just to have a temp as getting a committed employee is very hard to find.

How does the government incentivise people into the workforce and away from benefits, I've no problem with people with physically mental disabilities which would prevent them from working either full time or attending work, but we have moved on so much that working from home is easier than ever, these were massive barriers in the past but less so now.

Instead of jobseekers (not sure what's it's called now) surely the government could work with these recruitment agencies and provide access to jobs and make it more inviting to work than sitting on your hole all day?

Which countries of similar size is getting better at moving away from the benefit system?

It's a very difficult fix

We have the so-called "Holiday Hunger" bill going through Stormont at the minute. That's what the welfare state has descended into....basically feeding people's kids, all the year round. It doesn't seem to matter about considering whether or not you can afford to have kids. Have them anyway & dump all responsibility for them onto the state, while you spend the money saved on mobiles, Netflix, holidays etc. Lift the child benefits cap, pay to feed the kids at school, pay to feed them during the school holidays - all encouraging the dependency culture. I wonder will the "holiday hunger" payments still apply, when they're all away on their state sponsored holidays to Benidorm in the summer? The whole thing's a complete racket & people are only too aware of how to exploit it, to the max.

https://www.ft.com/content/eb0c2d17-81b5-4741-a9fd-3f1dcbbfc8cc
·       More than one in five Britons of working age are neither in work nor looking for a job.


https://www.ft.com/content/a91ed719-a95a-45ee-aa5a-db8ecb550561

One new problem over the past year has been that the UK now has many more people, especially women, off work and long-term sick. Looking at the data, Michael Saunders, an external member of the BoE's Monetary Policy Committee blamed the "side effects of the pandemic, for example long Covid and the rise in NHS waiting lists". This new and UK-specific long-term sickness problem casts a dark shadow over both the government's management of the pandemic and NHS performance,

Is it as bad in the North?

You have all these NEETs, who claim to have ADHD, which may as well be covered by the Disability Discrimination Act. This apparently is sufficient to make you eligible for benefits for life, nowadays. You can then sit in your darkened bedroom all day long, gaming & telling the world that nobody understands you.

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 12:43:23 PMWe have the so-called "Holiday Hunger" bill going through Stormont at the minute. That's what the welfare state has descended into....basically feeding people's kids, all the year round. It doesn't seem to matter about considering whether or not you can afford to have kids. Have them anyway & dump all responsibility for them onto the state, while you spend the money saved on mobiles, Netflix, holidays etc. Lift the child benefits cap, pay to feed the kids at school, pay to feed them during the school holidays - all encouraging the dependency culture. I wonder will the "holiday hunger" payments still apply, when they're all away on their state sponsored holidays to Benidorm in the summer? The whole thing's a complete racket & people are only too aware of how to exploit it, to the max.

SF are the primary pushers of welfare and feeding wains all year round as it is culturally ingrained in parts of W. Belfast, Derry etc. but they'll still blame Westminster.

Mental health issues are the modern equivalent of a bad back i.e. a condition which pays out but can't be disproved. It's well known that the Great Outdoors helps mental health conditions so claimants who are otherwise physically able should be asked to work outdoors to claim benefits. I'd imagine you'd see a miraculous decrease in mental health claims overnight!

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 19, 2026, 03:41:14 PM

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 12:43:23 PMWe have the so-called "Holiday Hunger" bill going through Stormont at the minute. That's what the welfare state has descended into....basically feeding people's kids, all the year round. It doesn't seem to matter about considering whether or not you can afford to have kids. Have them anyway & dump all responsibility for them onto the state, while you spend the money saved on mobiles, Netflix, holidays etc. Lift the child benefits cap, pay to feed the kids at school, pay to feed them during the school holidays - all encouraging the dependency culture. I wonder will the "holiday hunger" payments still apply, when they're all away on their state sponsored holidays to Benidorm in the summer? The whole thing's a complete racket & people are only too aware of how to exploit it, to the max.

SF are the primary pushers of welfare and feeding wains all year round as it is culturally ingrained in parts of W. Belfast, Derry etc. but they'll still blame Westminster.

Mental health issues are the modern equivalent of a bad back i.e. a condition which pays out but can't be disproved. It's well known that the Great Outdoors helps mental health conditions so claimants who are otherwise physically able should be asked to work outdoors to claim benefits. I'd imagine you'd see a miraculous decrease in mental health claims overnight!

Agree 100%

Our revenge will be the laughter of our very well fed children, all paid for by the Brits.

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 03:56:54 PMOur revenge will be the laughter of our very well fed children, all paid for by the Brits.

You spelt fags and beer wrongly

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2026, 06:05:18 PM

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 03:56:54 PMOur revenge will be the laughter of our very well fed children, all paid for by the Brits.

You spelt fags and beer wrongly

I presume you really meant to say "glue, coke, ketamine & chips".

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 06:51:27 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2026, 06:05:18 PM

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on April 19, 2026, 03:56:54 PMOur revenge will be the laughter of our very well fed children, all paid for by the Brits.

You spelt fags and beer wrongly

I presume you really meant to say "glue, coke, ketamine & chips".

Possibly!

When it's intrenched it's difficult to get out off, this coming from a Westie! to be fair there were plenty working, though they worked and claimed lol!

We talk about education but in the thick of it, it's nearly as bad on both sides in those areas of lower east west and north Belfast.

Instead of showing people how to claim for things they should be showing people how to apply for jobs, his to get on further education course to get better jobs

I've no answers to fix this but it's not going to happen in my life time unless some maverick government gets in a blows it all up!

Reform it is

Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2026, 07:18:27 PMReform it is

Ones over here (unionists ) won't be happy with Reform

Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2026, 07:18:27 PMReform it is

Who? Lads like Tice who don't pay their taxes...

https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903 (https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903)

Every bit as bad as those scroungers on DLA etc ripping us off.

For people like Tice, tax avoidance -v- tax evasion is just a matter of semantics.

Farage constantly runs about, playing the "ordinary" bloke card, so that he can mop up the disaffected, white, working class vote.

You would imagine that, in private, he looks upon such people with utter contempt.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2026, 07:32:20 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2026, 07:18:27 PMReform it is

Ones over here (unionists ) won't be happy with Reform

The TUV have Reform marked down, as a complete bunch of Islington dwelling, avocado munching, Guardian reading, pinko, card carrying commie, wishy washy liberal, Trotskyist entryists.

Quote

QuoteReform it is

Who? Lads like Tice who don't pay their taxes...

https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903 (https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903)

Every bit as bad as those scroungers on DLA etc ripping us off.

I don't understand What  you mean by "us"

The north  (and Britain ) wouldn't be  in any better state if they  got rid of all DLA claimants.  It's an easy thing to blame the state of the place  on a few who might be fraudulently claiming benefits when they're always  seems to an endless pot of  money  for wars

Quote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2026, 02:52:16 PM

Quote

QuoteReform it is

Who? Lads like Tice who don't pay their taxes...

https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903 (https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903)

Every bit as bad as those scroungers on DLA etc ripping us off.

I don't understand What  you mean by "us"

The north  (and Britain ) wouldn't be  in any better state if they  got rid of all DLA claimants.  It's an easy thing to blame the state of the place  on a few who might be fraudulently claiming benefits when they're always  seems to an endless pot of  money  for wars

Encouraging people to work and not claim benefits is a good thing, saying that there is no problems with having money for wars is not the same argument though..

There so many benefits (pun intended) to working than claiming the dole/dla/pips/housing and so on

But definitely put up a thread about wasting money on wars and you wouldn't get too many disagreeing with you on that point

What is alarming are the figures that are being bandied about concerning rising school absenteeism rates, since Covid. If pupils won't attend school, they won't get any qualifications, making it impossible to get a job. Probably partly explains the rise in the numbers of NEETs. People are actively decoupling from the state, before they even get a national insurance number, which is worrying.

Quote

Quote

Quote

QuoteReform it is

Who? Lads like Tice who don't pay their taxes...

https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903 (https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903)

Every bit as bad as those scroungers on DLA etc ripping us off.

I don't understand What  you mean by "us"

The north  (and Britain ) wouldn't be  in any better state if they  got rid of all DLA claimants.  It's an easy thing to blame the state of the place  on a few who might be fraudulently claiming benefits when they're always  seems to an endless pot of  money  for wars

Encouraging people to work and not claim benefits is a good thing, saying that there is no problems with having money for wars is not the same argument though..

There so many benefits (pun intended) to working than claiming the dole/dla/pips/housing and so on

But definitely put up a thread about wasting money on wars and you wouldn't get too many disagreeing with you on that point

And there are so many benefits (pun intended)  for some to claim benefits rather than working.

I agree, it's good to encourage people into work. But you hear of  many working people now asking , why am I busting my hole off for so little reward? Both parents working, paying taxes, childcare, mortgage, Cost of living going up and up etc etc.  For a lot of people, working hard  isn't as rewarding in terms of  getting on the property ladder , quality of life, desposible income etc  it once was.

The enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgr76r7691o

The British Treasury now wants around another grand a year off each household.

So, the answer is screw more money out of those who do pay up [bearing in mind that £119,000,000 worth of rates bills are already sitting as unpaid & that the DfC reckons there's £350,000,000 of benefit fraud going on], whilst services are currently at worse than 3rd world levels.

Then they actually wonder why people think that the social contract is completely bolloxed?

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 09:20:49 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Again, start a thread in the 50 families please. Start a thread about how the government can take their money.

But save me the shite, are you saying take their money and give it to the dolers?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 09:59:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 09:20:49 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Again, start a thread in the 50 families please. Start a thread about how the government can take their money.

But save me the shite, are you saying take their money and give it to the dolers?

This shite about the top 50 families too. Consider NI on its own, would the economy suddenly start to work if Stormont seized the wealth of Norbrook, Dimplex, Euro Auctions and Ovo Energy. Of course not.

I can't see how anyone could argue that the top 5 wealthiest people in NI are the problem with the economy or that they owe their wealth due to a closeness to the political class in London.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You get growth when the money is spread around. You don't get growth when a small group hoards all the money. This is the problem with Unionists. They are loyal to a system that fucks them.

And when the money is spread around the music is better too.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 09:59:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 09:20:49 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Again, start a thread in the 50 families please. Start a thread about how the government can take their money.

But save me the shite, are you saying take their money and give it to the dolers?

The thread is about the UK/North economy. The key feature of the economy is that 50 families control as much wealth as 34m people.

I read this week that the North has a budget overspend of 80m or so and has to be bailed out by London. The regime can't generate economic growth. Neither can Rachel Reeves. They are pulling on levers that don't work.

For all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Company and private lease hire/HP etc. more popular than ever.

I think we'll not see the full outworkings of this 'conflict' in the Middle East until Halloween time and on into Christmas.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 22, 2026, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Company and private lease hire/HP etc. more popular than ever.

You still need to be able to service the loan or lease

Quote from: Mario on April 22, 2026, 10:12:17 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 22, 2026, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Company and private lease hire/HP etc. more popular than ever.

You still need to be able to service the loan or lease

Keeping up with the Joneses is worth a little pain elsewhere for a lot of people

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 22, 2026, 10:53:04 PMKeeping up with the Joneses is worth a little pain elsewhere for a lot of people

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 23, 2026, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

I remember when the the BMW X5 and Q7 came out, a big purchase at the time but when you look back they were a standard model.  Now everyone seems to be the X drive / Quattro version and pimped within an inch of it's life.

If I traded my current wagon in I would not get £1000 for it as it has over 200k miles but I have 18 months left on my mortgage so happy enough I have got my priorities right.

Quote from: AustinPowers on April 21, 2026, 02:52:16 PM

Quote

QuoteReform it is

Who? Lads like Tice who don't pay their taxes...

https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903 (https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2045788070012653903)

Every bit as bad as those scroungers on DLA etc ripping us off.

I don't understand What  you mean by "us"

The north  (and Britain ) wouldn't be  in any better state if they  got rid of all DLA claimants.  It's an easy thing to blame the state of the place  on a few who might be fraudulently claiming benefits when they're always  seems to an endless pot of  money  for wars

The "us" is tax payers, especially PAYE as there's no loopholes available to you.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 09:59:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 09:20:49 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Again, start a thread in the 50 families please. Start a thread about how the government can take their money.

But save me the shite, are you saying take their money and give it to the dolers?

Close a lot of these tax avoidance/evasion schemes and fund the NHS properly, fund schools properly etc.

I'm waiting on Channel 5 running a few TV series on people like this as well as the likes of Benefit street etc.

We're being conditioned to look down at the issue rather than look up and see the bigger shower of spongers at the high end of the tax tree avoiding billions.

Quote from: johnnycool on April 23, 2026, 08:59:34 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 09:59:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 09:20:49 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 06:00:43 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2026, 05:50:12 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2026, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2026, 04:59:07 PMThe enemy isn't the scroungers. People aren't good at putting numbers into perspective. The enemy is the 50 families who are richer than the 34 million people at the bottom.

The *real* problem is that a few wealthy people who are very adept at avoiding tax can never ever make up for 10s of millions of people earning decent wages and spending that on goods and services.

You are getting confused, there are no good tax dodgers. Cooking the books because you can afford it and cooking the bookies cause you are a lazy Cnut is the same..

The system is broken by those who can afford to hide their earnings and those who refuse to earn, thus leaving those who go out to make an honest wage end up paying for poor services they receive..

Stop separating things

Theres a world of difference in a boy scrounging a few thousand and corporations cleaning us for billions. Neither are right but one is on a different level

No, neither are right, if we all took the same attitude where do you think the place would be?

Even if everyone in the occupied territories cooked the books it wouldn't make a difference.You could fit 50 families into one of your "leisure centres" . They have more money than the rest of England North of Luton. That is the problem. Focusing on what your local scumbags do is missing the point.

Again, start a thread in the 50 families please. Start a thread about how the government can take their money.

But save me the shite, are you saying take their money and give it to the dolers?

Close a lot of these tax avoidance/evasion schemes and fund the NHS properly, fund schools properly etc.

I'm waiting on Channel 5 running a few TV series on people like this as well as the likes of Benefit street etc.

We're being conditioned to look down at the issue rather than look up and see the bigger shower of spongers at the high end of the tax tree avoiding billions.

You won't get anyone arguing about hitting the global companies with the proper use of collecting tax, no one, that's not ever been in dispute, but stop using it as an excuse to excuse others doing it

The government have all the money they need to pay into the NHS, the problem is its been mismanaged and hasn't been run properly for many years and has not moved with the times be it technology staffing or the increase of people coming to the country or the increase people living longer..

Schools and education, nothing has really changed to be fair, class sizes are the same more or less since I was at school, the schools were in worse condition to the standards they have today, teachers are doing less teaching and more paperwork the curriculum has too much on it and the stretching of that means (for me) diluting the subject just to put more into it for some reason..

And if they ever hit these big companies for more tax and get it off them, can you trust the governments to do the right thing with that money, because in the last 30 years I've yet to see proper infrastructure in the north that's made a big improvement. ,

Whether its 000.1% of the dole cheats and 25% of the global companies are taking, they are both wrong. If the vast majority of people are working they are creating more money and its put back into the economy rather it being taken out 

Here in lies the gamble, if I'm a MD of a global firm and I'm going to get hit with these big increased taxes, I'm (if able) moving my company to a cheaper tax haven country, that in turn brings business and revenue out of the economy. lowering the ability to take billions to pure it into those areas you have mentioned, is that fair? No, but its business

Short and curlys 

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 23, 2026, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

I remember when the the BMW X5 and Q7 came out, a big purchase at the time but when you look back they were a standard model.  Now everyone seems to be the X drive / Quattro version and pimped within an inch of it's life.

If I traded my current wagon in I would not get £1000 for it as it has over 200k miles but I have 18 months left on my mortgage so happy enough I have got my priorities right.

Lot of debate whether you should fully clear your mortgage or not. Some recommend keeping a small amount against your property as it provides better security against fraud and improves your liquidity. We stopped overpaying the mortgage and started investing (Nothing significant I might add). But hard to know what the right option is anymore for the long term.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 23, 2026, 09:53:06 AM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 23, 2026, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

I remember when the the BMW X5 and Q7 came out, a big purchase at the time but when you look back they were a standard model.  Now everyone seems to be the X drive / Quattro version and pimped within an inch of it's life.

If I traded my current wagon in I would not get £1000 for it as it has over 200k miles but I have 18 months left on my mortgage so happy enough I have got my priorities right.

Lot of debate whether you should fully clear your mortgage or not. Some recommend keeping a small amount against your property as it provides better security against fraud and improves your liquidity. We stopped overpaying the mortgage and started investing (Nothing significant I might add). But hard to know what the right option is anymore for the long term.

I've a few years left, maybe 7 or so but in the process of adding to the mortgage when I can to drop the rate, probably on the same mindset of leaving a small amount there but she wants it gone..

Cleared it and also not sure on the right answer for it. Glad to not have been hit by higher rates so probably happy enough. I know ones who swear by leaving a small amount on it.

Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 23, 2026, 09:53:06 AM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 23, 2026, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

I remember when the the BMW X5 and Q7 came out, a big purchase at the time but when you look back they were a standard model.  Now everyone seems to be the X drive / Quattro version and pimped within an inch of it's life.

If I traded my current wagon in I would not get £1000 for it as it has over 200k miles but I have 18 months left on my mortgage so happy enough I have got my priorities right.

Lot of debate whether you should fully clear your mortgage or not. Some recommend keeping a small amount against your property as it provides better security against fraud and improves your liquidity. We stopped overpaying the mortgage and started investing (Nothing significant I might add). But hard to know what the right option is anymore for the long term.

Never heard this before, can you explain.

I always thought if you had no mortgage you could still use it as leverage to borrow if funds were needed down the line as you are coming from a place of 100% equity.

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 10:35:55 AM

Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 23, 2026, 09:53:06 AM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 08:10:07 AM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 23, 2026, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 22, 2026, 09:33:54 PMFor all the poorness in the country, i never seen as many people driving fancy cars. Where i live, more than half the houses are rented out but top range Audi,BMW, jeeps etc.

Range rovers, holidays to Dubai, botox, mounjaro, 60inch TVs. All of them everywhere.

I remember when the the BMW X5 and Q7 came out, a big purchase at the time but when you look back they were a standard model.  Now everyone seems to be the X drive / Quattro version and pimped within an inch of it's life.

If I traded my current wagon in I would not get £1000 for it as it has over 200k miles but I have 18 months left on my mortgage so happy enough I have got my priorities right.

Lot of debate whether you should fully clear your mortgage or not. Some recommend keeping a small amount against your property as it provides better security against fraud and improves your liquidity. We stopped overpaying the mortgage and started investing (Nothing significant I might add). But hard to know what the right option is anymore for the long term.

Never heard this before, can you explain.

I always thought if you had no mortgage you could still use it as leverage to borrow if funds were needed down the line as you are coming from a place of 100% equity.

A little cash is easily accessed, whereas borrowing takes time. Also a little cash ensures no need for credit cards, paying annually rather than monthly to get the discount etc

Thanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

Having a mortgage can help with security against property title fraud as they maintain an interest in the property. As the lender has security checks in place that a fraudster would find harder to bypass.
Also for liquidity, if you've saved/ invested money it's easier accessed if you need it urgently. It's that opportunity cost of overpaying the mortgage.
But I'm not saying or advising which is better as I haven't a clue and would depend who you speak to. But always good to be aware of options.

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Paste that article across if possible
Piling into my pension atm, conscious also that the macro-economics could just as easily tank the value of it any time, the later the worse and all

Quote from: tiempo on April 23, 2026, 03:38:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Paste that article across if possible
Piling into my pension atm, conscious also that the macro-economics could just as easily tank the value of it any time, the later the worse and all

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   In a crisis, sometimes you don't tell the whole story
How after the fall of Lehman Brothers we came close to a full-scale bank run
JOHN AUTHERSAdd to myFT
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John Authers

PublishedSEP 8 2018

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Back in September 2008 a failure of AIG, many believed, would mean an instantaneous collapse of the European banking system, which held much impaired US credit © Bloomberg
It is time to admit that I once deliberately withheld important information from readers. It was 10 years ago, the financial crisis was at its worst, and I think I did the right thing. But a decade on from the 2008 crisis (our front pages from the period are at ft.com/financialcrisis), I need to discuss it.

The moment came on September 17, two days after Lehman declared bankruptcy. That Wednesday was — for me — the scariest day of the crisis, when world finance came closest to all-out collapse. But I did not write as much in the FT. 

Two critical news items had broken on Tuesday night. First, AIG received an $85bn bailout. It needed it because it had to pay up for credit default swap transactions it had guaranteed. Without those guarantees, bonds sitting on banks' balance sheets and assumed to be of no risk would instead be deemed worthless. That would instantly render many of the banks holding them technically insolvent. A failure of AIG, many believed, would mean an instantaneous collapse of the European banking system, which held much impaired US credit.

That the US had coughed up so much money suggested that AIG's guarantees could not be trusted — so what collateral could possibly be good for a loan?

Meanwhile, the Reserve Fund, the largest US independent money market mutual fund, announced a loss on its holdings of Lehman bonds. As a result, its price would fall below $1 per share. 

This was terrifying because money market funds, which hold short-term bonds, were treated as guaranteed. No money market fund had ever "broken the buck" (or fallen below a price of $1). 

The funds were vital customers for short-term debt. Without them, how could banks or big companies fund themselves? Investors rushed to pull money out of money funds, while the funds' managers dumped corporate bonds for the safety of Treasury bills. 

This was a run on the bank. The solvency of Wall Street's biggest banks was in question. Amid chaos, the yield on Treasury bills fell to its lowest since Pearl Harbor. Desperate people needed safety; interest rates did not matter. 

Unlike 2007's run on Northern Rock in the UK, none of this was visible. Queues do not form around the block to buy T-bills. But Wall Streeters I spoke to thought the banking system was at risk of failing. 

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Five surprising outcomes of the 2008 financial crisis

As it happened, I had a lot of cash in my bank account, at Citibank. I was above the limit covered by US deposit insurance, so if Citi went bust, a once inconceivable event that I could now imagine, I would lose money for good.

At lunch hour I headed to Citi, planning to take out half my money and put it into an account at the Chase branch next door. That would double the money that I had insured.

We were in midtown Manhattan, surrounded by investment banking offices. At Citi, I found a long queue, all well-dressed Wall Streeters. They were doing the same as me. Next door, Chase was also full of anxious-looking bankers.

Once I reached the relationship officer, who was great, she told me that she and her opposite number at Chase had agreed a plan of action. I need not open an account at another bank.

Using bullet points, she asked if I was married, and had children. Then she opened accounts for each of my children in trust, and a joint account with my wife. In just a few minutes I had quadrupled my deposit insurance coverage. I was now exposed to Uncle Sam, not Citi. With a smile she told me she had been doing this all morning. Neither she nor her friend at Chase had ever had requests to do this until that week.

I was finding it a little hard to breathe. There was a bank run happening, in New York's financial district. The people panicking were the Wall Streeters who best understood what was going on. 

All I needed was to get a photographer to take a few shots of the well-dressed bankers queueing for their money, and write a caption explaining it. 

We did not do this. Such a story on the FT's front page might have been enough to push the system over the edge. Our readers went unwarned, and the system went without that final prod into panic. 

The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire

Was this the right call? I think so. All our competitors also shunned any photos of Manhattan bank branches. The right to free speech does not give us right to shout fire in a crowded cinema; there was the risk of a fire, and we might have lit the spark by shouting about it.

A few weeks later, the deposit protection limit was raised from $100,000 to $250,000 via an emergency economic stabilisation bill passed by Congress.

Ten years on, US banks are virtually the only players in the financial world plainly more secure than they were before. They have delivered and built up capital, and the risk of a sudden collapse is now far more distant. 

The problem now is that disposing of that risk has obstructed the task of reducing other risks. Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire. 

The bad news is that it is a crisis whose solution can always wait another day. Politicians can ignore it. The good news; I need not stay quiet this time. 

That article is 8 years ago. I'm not saying that there is not cause for concern, but a new analysis is needed.

Quote from: tiempo on April 23, 2026, 03:38:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Paste that article across if possible
Piling into my pension atm, conscious also that the macro-economics could just as easily tank the value of it any time, the later the worse and all

If you can choose the investment you just need to switch the money into cash when inflation and volatility kick off. This avoids huge losses and you can buy stuff cheap when the markets recover. The returns are much higher. At least 10% a year.

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 05:54:58 PMThat article is 8 years ago. I'm not saying that there is not cause for concern, but a new analysis is needed.

You need a model for inflation and volatility

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 05:56:27 PM

Quote from: tiempo on April 23, 2026, 03:38:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Paste that article across if possible
Piling into my pension atm, conscious also that the macro-economics could just as easily tank the value of it any time, the later the worse and all

If you can choose the investment you just need to switch the money into cash when inflation and volatility kick off. This avoids huge losses and you can buy stuff cheap when the markets recover. The returns are much higher. At least 10% a year.

So buy low sell high SF  ;D

I presume lodging money into a private pension when young is the way to go.

Never too late to start though.

But hard to know at times who to go with I think. I wouldn't have a clue. 

Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2026, 06:16:02 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 05:56:27 PM

Quote from: tiempo on April 23, 2026, 03:38:48 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Paste that article across if possible
Piling into my pension atm, conscious also that the macro-economics could just as easily tank the value of it any time, the later the worse and all

If you can choose the investment you just need to switch the money into cash when inflation and volatility kick off. This avoids huge losses and you can buy stuff cheap when the markets recover. The returns are much higher. At least 10% a year.

So buy low sell high SF  ;D

If you started in 2018 with business as usual with 100 you would have 130 now.
With no losses you would have 450. You get losses every 2 years now. Losses in 2020, 2023, 2025 and 2026. Stripping out the losses is massive.

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 07:43:33 PMIf you started in 2018 with business as usual with 100 you would have 130 now.
With no losses you would have 450. You get losses every 2 years now. Losses in 2020, 2023, 2025 and 2026. Stripping out the losses is massive.

Spotting losses after the fact is relatively easy. Working out when they are going to happen ahead of time is much more difficult. Anyone who tells you they know how to do it is lying.

Quote from: marty34 on April 23, 2026, 06:39:51 PMI presume lodging money into a private pension when young is the way to go.

Never too late to start though.

But hard to know at times who to go with I think. I wouldn't have a clue. 

There's going to be ni contributions on pensions over a certain amount in the uk too. I think it's 2029. That will put a dampener on the big pension contributions!

Quote from: dec on April 23, 2026, 07:52:55 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 07:43:33 PMIf you started in 2018 with business as usual with 100 you would have 130 now.
With no losses you would have 450. You get losses every 2 years now. Losses in 2020, 2023, 2025 and 2026. Stripping out the losses is massive.

Spotting losses after the fact is relatively easy. Working out when they are going to happen ahead of time is much more difficult. Anyone who tells you they know how to do it is lying.

There is a volatility index called the VIX. It takes time to reach a peak. If you monitor that and have a trigger point it works

For inflation you need to follow the macro economy.

It's about being responsive to changes in conditions. You need to know what to look out for.

That IMF forecast is pretty grim. Seeing the UK singled out for the biggest shock in the G7 makes you wonder how the current strategy can actually counter such high inflation and stagnant growth. Tough times ahead for living standards if those predictions hold.

Who the feck has time to monitor all that?

Just find a wee home earner for retirement that's not too taxing  ;) and flexible

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

Was just looking for the evidence that pensions generally lost 50% of their value between 2020 and 2025. Maybe you have that or maybe you just post made up shit?

I gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 01:08:55 PMI gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

If you say there is going to be another crash each year you'll be right at some point

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3p5l0nyevo

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 01:08:55 PMI gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

At the risk of nonsense being contagious. Do you know why bonds fell?

Hint; it wasn't because of economic weakness.

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

It is concerning to see these forecasts, especially regarding the hit to living standards. Hopefully, the actual outcomes aren't as severe as the IMF predicts.

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2026, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

Fall in the share price from peak asset bubble.32% had implications for solvency.  Everyone uses quant models so they go down as the market goes down.

Some craic in here! Think I'll head to another pub!

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 01:08:55 PMI gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

Just checked and I'm 100% certain that you haven't posted any evidence that pensions lost half their value between 2020 and 2025. But as you are adamant that you have this evidence just post it here.

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 06:33:46 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2026, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

Fall in the share price from peak asset bubble.32% had implications for solvency.  Everyone uses quant models so they go down as the market goes down.

And what was the asset price before the bubble?

Just tap out seafoid, tap out.

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 30, 2026, 11:06:09 AMJust tap out seafoid, tap out.

He genuinely doesn't understand his concept. If something starts at 10, goes to 50 and ends at 40 it hasn't fallen 20%.

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2026, 11:46:44 AM

Quote from: RedHand88 on April 30, 2026, 11:06:09 AMJust tap out seafoid, tap out.

He genuinely doesn't understand his concept. If something starts at 10, goes to 50 and ends at 40 it hasn't fallen 20%.

Maybe he's like Trump and does percentages differently

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2026, 11:03:11 AM

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 06:33:46 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2026, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

Fall in the share price from peak asset bubble.32% had implications for solvency.  Everyone uses quant models so they go down as the market goes down.

And what was the asset price before the bubble?

20 Feb 2020
S&p was 3380
2 days after the club final it was 2290.7q

Asset bubble 2
28 zdec 2021
S&p was 4795
21.20.22 was 3657

So it went from 3380 on 20 feb 2020 to 3657 on 22.10.22

Losses were 32% in asset bubble 1 and 24% in asset bubble 2.

Any other questions?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2026, 01:20:34 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 01:08:55 PMI gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

If you say there is going to be another crash each year you'll be right at some point

we had volatility in 2020  and 2025 and inflation in 2022 and now.

Thats more often than 2 years at a time. It's not like the frequency of Roscommon winning connacht titles. Every 2 years is senior hurling.

Seafoid That's a 8% increase in the time from 20th Feb 2020 to 22.10.22.

Are you just measuring the markets when they dip?

Quote from: BigGreenField on April 29, 2026, 01:45:01 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 01:08:55 PMI gave you the numbers. Bonds fell by 20% in 2022  as well. There is going to be another crash.

At the risk of nonsense being contagious. Do you know why bonds fell?

Hint; it wasn't because of economic weakness.

bonds fell because of inflation. Bond payments are fixed and inflation reduces the value of fixed payments so the price fell.

Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2026, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2026, 11:03:11 AM

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 06:33:46 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2026, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

Fall in the share price from peak asset bubble.32% had implications for solvency.  Everyone uses quant models so they go down as the market goes down.

And what was the asset price before the bubble?

20 Feb 2020
S&p was 3380
2 days after the club final it was 2290.7q

Asset bubble 2
28 zdec 2021
S&p was 4795
21.20.22 was 3657

So it went from 3380 on 20 feb 2020 to 3657 on 22.10.22

Losses were 32% in asset bubble 1 and 24% in asset bubble 2.

Any other questions?

When I asked you to post the evidence it genuinely hadn't occurred to me that you thought you already had.

If the above is your evidence then you do not understand markets, logic or mathematics.


I think my original contention that you just post shit is holding up pretty well.

Quote from: seafoid20 Feb 2020
S&p was 3380
2 days after the club final it was 2290.7q

Asset bubble 2
28 zdec 2021
S&p was 4795
21.20.22 was 3657

So it went from 3380 on 20 feb 2020 to 3657 on 22.10.22

Losses were 32% in asset bubble 1 and 24% in asset bubble 2.

Any other questions?

So it looks like you have discovered that stock markets are volatile, well done.

Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2026, 12:37:29 PM20 Feb 2020
S&p was 3380
2 days after the club final it was 2290.7q

Asset bubble 2
28 zdec 2021
S&p was 4795
21.20.22 was 3657

So it went from 3380 on 20 feb 2020 to 3657 on 22.10.22

Losses were 32% in asset bubble 1 and 24% in asset bubble 2.

Any other questions?

Even ignoring your head scratching comment about the 2020 club finals given they were played in January...between mid January and mid March 2020, can anyone think what might possibly have caused a crash? Not all at once now, hands up please!

You get that even perhaps the stupidest people on the planet understand that this isn't the same as storing cash under your mattress, yes?

Also, please, for the love of god, stop describing absolutely everything under the sun as senior hurling

Covid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2026, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 30, 2026, 11:03:11 AM

Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2026, 06:33:46 PM

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 29, 2026, 03:08:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2026, 10:45:16 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on April 28, 2026, 10:12:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 23, 2026, 03:25:30 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2026, 01:17:23 PM

Quote from: LC on April 23, 2026, 11:16:55 AMThanks.

Plan is once the mortgage is cleared we plan to split 90% of that monthly payment between savings, emergency fund, pension etc.

It was always dead money so if we can continue to tip away based on current incomes we should be ok.

A pension with tax relief has a lot of merit.

Pension funds all use one quantitative model for all risk and lose shedloads to inflation and volatility. They lost around 50% of assets between 2020 and 2025. I am looking at a Swiss pension fund that lost 25bn CHF between 2020 and 2025.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fcb4d60-b1df-11e8-99ca-68cf89602132
Now, risks lie in bloated asset prices, levered investments, and in pension funds that hold them. The next crisis will not be about banking, but the insidious danger that pension funds deflate, leaving a generation without enough money to retire.

Should this be filed under made up shit or have you actually evidence that in any general sense pension funds lost around 50% of assets (by which i presume you mean value)?

There were 2 asset bubbles between 2020 and 2025. every time an asset bubble collapses there are losses
Equity losses
2020 32%
Oct 22 24%

32% and 24% fall from what though? If the bubbles hit 33 and 25% before deflating, so what?

Fall in the share price from peak asset bubble.32% had implications for solvency.  Everyone uses quant models so they go down as the market goes down.

And what was the asset price before the bubble?

20 Feb 2020
S&p was 3380
2 days after the club final it was 2290.7q

Asset bubble 2
28 zdec 2021
S&p was 4795
21.20.22 was 3657

So it went from 3380 on 20 feb 2020 to 3657 on 22.10.22

Losses were 32% in asset bubble 1 and 24% in asset bubble 2.

Any other questions?

Your sums are wrong.

Why the S&P and why those dates?

But in more general terms, why are you classing equities in general as an asset bubble?

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

The pension funds are playing senior hurling now.

851% of Americans hate Israel.

There is more chance of Fermanagh winning the ulster championship.

Sin é

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 01, 2026, 06:47:15 AM

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

The pension funds are playing senior hurling now.

851% of Americans hate Israel.

There is more chance of Fermanagh winning the ulster championship.

Sin é

Very good! ;D 

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

I think if we learned something here it's that seafoid doesn't understand economics or the market and needs to get off twitter

It's the Trump-esque nature of it that is laughable.

Say outlandish things on a subject matter where your expertise is of the pretend variety, throw out some numbers, don't engage in a genuine debate, double down when caught out and never ever admit to being a wrong.

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 01, 2026, 10:48:19 AMIt's the Trump-esque nature of it that is laughable.

Say outlandish things on a subject matter where your expertise is of the pretend variety, throw out some numbers, don't engage in a genuine debate, double down when caught out and never ever admit to being a wrong.

It is called the Dunning-Kruger effect - when a person's lack of knowledge and skill in a certain area causes them to overestimate their own competence.

Thinking of changing the car as its 15yr old with 210k on the clock.
Not sure what to do, try and run it for another year or bite the bullet now. What are the chances the Orangutan in the oval office causes a global recession 

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 01, 2026, 11:11:07 AM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 01, 2026, 10:48:19 AMIt's the Trump-esque nature of it that is laughable.

Say outlandish things on a subject matter where your expertise is of the pretend variety, throw out some numbers, don't engage in a genuine debate, double down when caught out and never ever admit to being a wrong.

It is called the Dunning-Kruger effect - when a person's lack of knowledge and skill in a certain area causes them to overestimate their own competence.

I think this is more the twitter bubble effect. He doesn't question what he reads in his echo chamber and clearly can't defend it when he takes it into the real world.

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on May 01, 2026, 11:57:26 AM

Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on May 01, 2026, 11:11:07 AM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 01, 2026, 10:48:19 AMIt's the Trump-esque nature of it that is laughable.

Say outlandish things on a subject matter where your expertise is of the pretend variety, throw out some numbers, don't engage in a genuine debate, double down when caught out and never ever admit to being a wrong.

It is called the Dunning-Kruger effect - when a person's lack of knowledge and skill in a certain area causes them to overestimate their own competence.

I think this is more the twitter bubble effect. He doesn't question what he reads in his echo chamber and clearly can't defend it when he takes it into the real world.

There is definitely alot of that in the modern world from people of all political persuasions. Social media feeds are tailored to only show what you will agree with and interact with.

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Each Crash comes at the end of a bubble.They lose money in the crash.

That's simply not true.

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Each Crash comes at the end of a bubble.They lose money in the crash.

He is weeping for you.

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Each Crash comes at the end of a bubble.They lose money in the crash.

In this fractious world your loyalty to the Trump playbook is a joy to behold.

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 02, 2026, 08:53:50 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Each Crash comes at the end of a bubble.They lose money in the crash.

In this fractious world your loyalty to the Trump playbook is a joy to behold.

Can you back that up?
Trump is a malignant narcissist, same as Harris and Martin. They are awful.


By the way I read on twitter that a kilo of lamb mince is GBP 18.50 in London. How much is it in the occupied territories? It is EUR 10.50 in the South

The UK has higher food inflation because of Brexit.

Harris or Martin blow up any schools recently?

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 02, 2026, 03:30:45 PMHarris or Martin blow up any schools recently?

They didn't but they are running a housing bubble that shuts out working class people and they support Israel, Israel is fascist which is a few steps on from malignant narcissist.

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 03:14:18 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 02, 2026, 08:53:50 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: gallsman on May 01, 2026, 06:03:57 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 01, 2026, 01:27:34 AMCovid caused the crash in 2020

Inflation caused the crash in 2022

You understand that a crash isn't the same thing as a bubble?

And what has anything got to do with "pension funds losing 50% of their assets"?

Each Crash comes at the end of a bubble.They lose money in the crash.

In this fractious world your loyalty to the Trump playbook is a joy to behold.

Can you back that up?
[/quote ]

Quite easily.

I already have in fact.

The Trump/Seafoid Playbook.

Talk absolute crap about a subject that you know about. Litter discussion with random numbers that make little sense. When caught, post more shit, move debate around and never admit that you have been caught talking shite.

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 03:14:18 PMTrump is a malignant narcissist, same as Harris and Martin. They are awfulz


By the way I read on twitter that a kilo of lamb mince is GBP 18.50 in London. How much is it in the occupied territories? It is EUR 10.50 in the South

The UK has higher food inflation because of Brexit.


[/quote ]

Classic case here.

Not a clue what the price of lamb is. It's interesting that you think you are in a debate with me about lamb, inflation or Brexit. I have never mentioned any of them. Nor Harris and Martin for that matter. As I said classic flooding the zone with shite stuff. Your mimicry of Trump is slavish at this stage.

What name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

NI economy to grow at 0.7%, ROI at 2.7%. And NI may still do better than outlying parts of Britain

Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2026, 02:27:02 PMNI economy to grow at 0.7%, ROI at 2.7%. And NI may still do better than outlying parts of Britain

Germany 0.5%
UK 0.8% down from 1.4% projection

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2026, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll.make a note of it
 It's split by age. Over 50s are still supportive of Israel but falling. Young people have switched off in the Democrats and it's getting bigger in the GOP if you look at trends. People like Fuentes are driving the discussion.

Labour polling has fallen in UK as well linked to Gaza.

First sign of slowdown coming in the 26.
Health regions asked to reduce spending and to stop recruiting non front line staff as budgets are being exceeded.
Higher education minister can't fully implement the abolition of student "contributions" as planned.
Public spending increasing at a higher rate than tax income.

Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2026, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2026, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll.make a note of it
 It's split by age. Over 50s are still supportive of Israel but falling. Young people have switched off in the Democrats and it's getting bigger in the GOP if you look at trends. People like Fuentes are driving the discussion.

Labour polling has fallen in UK as well linked to Gaza.

And it proves the point that I made on the other thread if Fuentes (presumably you mean Nick Fuentes?) is driving the discussion? His rhetoric has nothing to do with Palestinian freedom, and the enforcement of Palestinian equality and Human Rights.

Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2026, 10:32:25 AMFirst sign of slowdown coming in the 26.
Health regions asked to reduce spending and to stop recruiting non front line staff as budgets are being exceeded.
Higher education minister can't fully implement the abolition of student "contributions" as planned.
Public spending increasing at a higher rate than tax income.

That's not a sign of a slowdown.

That is 2 government departments overspending.

Health has been told to reign it in, no new hiring this year.

Education is way over budget and in that circumstance can't abolish a tax.

Quote from: JollyGreenGiant on May 07, 2026, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2026, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2026, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll.make a note of it
 It's split by age. Over 50s are still supportive of Israel but falling. Young people have switched off in the Democrats and it's getting bigger in the GOP if you look at trends. People like Fuentes are driving the discussion.

Labour polling has fallen in UK as well linked to Gaza.

And it proves the point that I made on the other thread if Fuentes (presumably you mean Nick Fuentes?) is driving the discussion? His rhetoric has nothing to do with Palestinian freedom, and the enforcement of Palestinian equality and Human Rights.

I don't have time to research it properly  but the defeat of Zionism will be driven by a coalition of women (eg Kasparian), muslims (egmehdi Hasan), left wing men and younger GOP people. 

And the process is unstopable.

Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2026, 11:50:52 AM

Quote from: JollyGreenGiant on May 07, 2026, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2026, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2026, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll.make a note of it
 It's split by age. Over 50s are still supportive of Israel but falling. Young people have switched off in the Democrats and it's getting bigger in the GOP if you look at trends. People like Fuentes are driving the discussion.

Labour polling has fallen in UK as well linked to Gaza.

And it proves the point that I made on the other thread if Fuentes (presumably you mean Nick Fuentes?) is driving the discussion? His rhetoric has nothing to do with Palestinian freedom, and the enforcement of Palestinian equality and Human Rights.

I don't have time to research it properly  but the defeat of Zionism will be driven by a coalition of women (eg Kasparian), muslims (egmehdi Hasan), left wing men and younger GOP people. 

And the process is unstopable.

The likes of Medhi Hasan have nothing in common with those "younger GOPers". All I'll say is that Palestinian Solidary will neither want nor need their "support" because it isn't support for Palestine.

Quote from: JollyGreenGiant on May 07, 2026, 12:05:30 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2026, 11:50:52 AM

Quote from: JollyGreenGiant on May 07, 2026, 11:15:00 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 06, 2026, 02:44:17 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2026, 10:23:08 AM

Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2026, 07:59:55 PM

Quote from: MrsBinfield on May 04, 2026, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2026, 06:20:41 PM

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 02, 2026, 05:03:17 PMWhat name did Mrs Binfield previously post under?

Whoever it is must be a troll

No trolling. Just holding up a mirror to your tactics and highlighting the overwhelming similarity to Trump.

Give me 5 examples with links to Trump

I can give one.

You have repeatedly said over and over that "57% of Republicans under 50 hate Israel".
I looked up this survey because I was fed up with reading this stat every day without any context.
Turns out that's not the way the poll was worded at all.
"very/somewhat unfavourable" is the actual wording for this stat, not hate.
Also the same poll says that the number drops to 24% in over 50s, but that didn't fit your argument so I can see why you left it out.

The closest phrasing to "hate" from the Pew poll that I could find was the % of Americans who have a "very unfavourable view" (all ages) . It was 28%.

Trump has a long history of misquoting facts too.

Others may have more but I have not the time to go over it.
You have went down a massive rabbit hole seafoid and are now no doubt being bombarded with this stuff on your timeline all the live long day and it is moulding your world view.

Senior hurling.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll.make a note of it
 It's split by age. Over 50s are still supportive of Israel but falling. Young people have switched off in the Democrats and it's getting bigger in the GOP if you look at trends. People like Fuentes are driving the discussion.

Labour polling has fallen in UK as well linked to Gaza.

And it proves the point that I made on the other thread if Fuentes (presumably you mean Nick Fuentes?) is driving the discussion? His rhetoric has nothing to do with Palestinian freedom, and the enforcement of Palestinian equality and Human Rights.

I don't have time to research it properly  but the defeat of Zionism will be driven by a coalition of women (eg Kasparian), muslims (egmehdi Hasan), left wing men and younger GOP people. 

And the process is unstopable.

The likes of Medhi Hasan have nothing in common with those "younger GOPers". All I'll say is that Palestinian Solidary will neither want nor need their "support" because it isn't support for Palestine.

i wouldn't say nothing. They both are opponents of Israel.
GOP opposition to AIPAC is string.