Quick thought!! Double header at Croke Park with Tyrone v Armagh?? Probably a long shot but would certainly draw a big crowd!
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 16, 2011, 09:50:55 PM
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Apologies, I stand corrected, I forgot this was a 3rd round game! Surely though at Monday Lunch time the correct decision will be to take a re run of last years All Ireland Final to Croke Park!
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 16, 2011, 09:50:55 PM
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Apologies, I stand corrected, I forgot this was a 3rd round game! Surely though at Monday Lunch time the correct decision will be to take a re run of last years All Ireland Final to Croke Park!
Didn't you read TYP's post?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 16, 2011, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 16, 2011, 09:50:55 PM
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Apologies, I stand corrected, I forgot this was a 3rd round game! Surely though at Monday Lunch time the correct decision will be to take a re run of last years All Ireland Final to Croke Park!
Didn't you read TYP's post?
I did read it.. Maybe it will be like the hiding we got in last years all ireland final eh?? ::)
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:59:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 16, 2011, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 16, 2011, 09:50:55 PM
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Apologies, I stand corrected, I forgot this was a 3rd round game! Surely though at Monday Lunch time the correct decision will be to take a re run of last years All Ireland Final to Croke Park!
Didn't you read TYP's post?
I did read it.. Maybe it will be like the hiding we got in last years all ireland final eh?? ::)
I'd presume it'll be worse to be honest.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 17, 2011, 12:14:22 AM
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:59:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 16, 2011, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: redandblackareback on July 16, 2011, 11:40:04 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 16, 2011, 09:50:55 PM
Tyrone v Armagh is a third round game which is apparently already fixed for Omagh, so if there is going to be a fourth round double bill at Croke Park it would probably have to be Down v Cork and Kildare v the losers of Derry/Donegal. If Limerick and Wexford were happy to go somewhere like Portlaoise, it could happen. However, the decision is not likely until Monday.l
Apologies, I stand corrected, I forgot this was a 3rd round game! Surely though at Monday Lunch time the correct decision will be to take a re run of last years All Ireland Final to Croke Park!
Didn't you read TYP's post?
I did read it.. Maybe it will be like the hiding we got in last years all ireland final eh?? ::)
I'd presume it'll be worse to be honest.
:D
If this game was in Newry you would give Down a chance but in Croke Park you would have to fancy Cork although they were flat for long spells v Kerry.
Down would need a fully fit Danny Hughes and Ambrose Rodgers also.
Cork by 3/4 points and with Mooney and Clarke gone for next year a difficult 3rd season for wee James.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
Was that the final that Down had never lost before?
They actually only played that final once so how could they have lost it before ;)
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 17, 2011, 12:15:38 AM
Was that the final that Down had never lost before?
At least next week will provide a reality check after the tough route to the fourth round.
What age are u??
Down v Cork on TV3, next Sat 7pm.
This is getting fecking annoying. I can't get TV3 >:(
Where will it be played?
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2011, 02:04:12 PM
This is getting fecking annoying. I can't get TV3 >:(
Nor can I, ack well will have to go to the bar to watch it
Quote from: 45 on July 17, 2011, 06:59:45 PM
Where will it be played?
Heard Portlaois mentioned last night coming out of the game at 7 o clock live on tv3
Thank god this is on the tv.................. couldn't face watching kildare again and mc stay practically ejaculating for the whole of the second half
Quote from: NP 76 on July 17, 2011, 07:21:05 PM
Quote from: 45 on July 17, 2011, 06:59:45 PM
Where will it be played?
Heard Portlaois mentioned last night coming out of the game at 7 o clock live on tv3
Portlaoise would hardly be halfway between the 2 counties, it should be in Dublin
i would say portlaiose. When was the last time croke park had a championship game throw in at 7. Must be some residents agreement .
U 21 final between these 2 teams was in Portlaois . It wouldnt be that far off half way
Quote from: squire_in_navy_slacks on July 17, 2011, 07:23:28 PM
Thank god this is on the tv.................. couldn't face watching kildare again and mc stay practically ejaculating for the whole of the second half
He's even worse when you lot are on the telly
Dublin played all their league games there this season as late Saturday evening games, so I guess it is feasibleto play it in Croke Park. I just wish they would put it on in the afternoon like qualifiers used to be so you still have a Saturday eveving to do something with.
any word on when the venue will be annouced?
They should toss for it.
Are there any Cork posters on this board?
Quote from: Orior on July 17, 2011, 11:29:06 PM
Are there any Cork posters on this board?
Id say Cork believe this game is already won and they wont bother with postings or even attending.
Sure its a poor Down team they will be facing :D
On another note will down have a new horrible yella jersey for saturday night or will they appear in an all black number
It would be great see the All Black strip we last sported against Cork in the league games of the 1980s, as the yellow jerseys don't quite look the part. However, the chances of O'Neill's producing an entirely new rig-out from scratch in less than a working week must be slim.
I like the fact Down's second kit is yellow, because it's tradition that in a clash of colours you wear your province's colours - but most counties have ignored this in favour of merchandising opportunities. Only Down, Galway, Meath and Kerry seem to adhere to tradition in this respect.
Meath haven't since 1986.
Quote from: Paddy Wan Kenobi on July 18, 2011, 11:17:32 AM
I like the fact Down's second kit is yellow, because it's tradition that in a clash of colours you wear your province's colours - but most counties have ignored this in favour of merchandising opportunities. Only Down, Galway, Meath and Kerry seem to adhere to tradition in this respect.
Kildare's second jersey is the provincial colours. Pretty sure Westmeath wear green too when they play Galway.
Quote from: snoopdog on July 18, 2011, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 17, 2011, 11:29:06 PM
Are there any Cork posters on this board?
Id say Cork believe this game is already won and they wont bother with postings or even attending.
Sure its a poor Down team they will be facing :D
On another note will down have a new horrible yella jersey for saturday night or will they appear in an all black number
Hardly!
We only barely beat you in Sept. and this time we lack Sheehan, Colm O Neil, Nicky Murphy all played a big part
in that win. Still tho' Down seem a bit off last years form.
Cork defence will be rejigged after the Kerry game and I hope the midfielders and half forwards will actually track their men this time.
The examiner said it will be a double header in croker with the kildare game
Probably Croke Park.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 18, 2011, 11:11:19 AM
It would be great see the All Black strip we last sported against Cork in the league games of the 1980s, as the yellow jerseys don't quite look the part. However, the chances of O'Neill's producing an entirely new rig-out from scratch in less than a working week must be slim.
They don't need to. 15 goalkeeper shirts would do the trick
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2011, 02:04:12 PM
This is getting fecking annoying. I can't get TV3 >:(
This is getting fecking annoying....7pm Ireland = 4am Sunday morning here...
I imagine both sides will wear the kits they wore in the All-Ireland Final.
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Meath haven't since 1986.
They have, against Donegal in 1990 and 2002
You heard it here first!!
Saturday 23rd July
6PM Down v Cork Croke Park
Quote from: CompulsoryTillager on July 18, 2011, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Meath haven't since 1986.
They have, against Donegal in 1990 and 2002
Begod you're right. Presumably it's because Donegal's second colours are the Ulster yellow, so Meath can't use their similar gold colours against them.
Why do Kildare need a second strip?
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: CompulsoryTillager on July 18, 2011, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Meath haven't since 1986.
They have, against Donegal in 1990 and 2002
Begod you're right. Presumably it's because Donegal's second colours are the Ulster yellow, so Meath can't use their similar gold colours against them.
Why do Kildare need a second strip?
£££££££££
Quote from: meatsy86 on July 18, 2011, 02:53:59 PM
You heard it here first!!
Saturday 23rd July
6PM Down v Cork Croke Park
Doesn't that contradict what someone said above about TV3 having live coverage at 7pm?
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: CompulsoryTillager on July 18, 2011, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Meath haven't since 1986.
They have, against Donegal in 1990 and 2002
Begod you're right. Presumably it's because Donegal's second colours are the Ulster yellow, so Meath can't use their similar gold colours against them.
Why do Kildare need a second strip?
In case they play Tyrone-
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Don't know as yet. More details will be sent round later this afternoon apparently.
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Don't know as yet. More details will be sent round later this afternoon apparently.
Cheers
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Don't know as yet. More details will be sent round later this afternoon apparently.
DH with Kildare and Derry apparently
Quote from: Hardy on July 18, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Meath haven't since 1986.
They did in 2002 in Croke Park against us, when we wore Ulster colours. Don't know why, as it was basically a change of collar colour!
Edit: Already covered!
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 18, 2011, 03:20:09 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Don't know as yet. More details will be sent round later this afternoon apparently.
DH with Kildare and Derry apparently
Croke Park double header for Cork-Down and Kildare-DerryGAA headquarters will host two mouth watering All-Ireland SFC Qualifier Round 4 games on Saturday, including a repeat of last year's All-Ireland final.
The day gets underway with Kildare playing Derry at 4pm with Cork then playing Down at 6pm, with the second game to be televised live on TV3.
Confirmed.
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:34:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 18, 2011, 03:20:09 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:15:42 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 18, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 18, 2011, 03:11:21 PM
The All Ireland Qualifier Down V Cork is in Croke Park on Saturday at 6.00pm , this will be an All Ticket Fixture.
Confirmed by Down County Board.
Is it a stand alone fixture DF or a double header?
Don't know as yet. More details will be sent round later this afternoon apparently.
DH with Kildare and Derry apparently
Croke Park double header for Cork-Down and Kildare-Derry
GAA headquarters will host two mouth watering All-Ireland SFC Qualifier Round 4 games on Saturday, including a repeat of last year's All-Ireland final.
The day gets underway with Kildare playing Derry at 4pm with Cork then playing Down at 6pm, with the second game to be televised live on TV3.
Confirmed.
Only one game televised, stupid.
Cork and Derry will bring roughly 38 supporters between them. There won't be enough at this to fill 1 stand.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 18, 2011, 03:53:46 PM
Cork and Derry will bring roughly 38 supporters between them. There won't be enough at this to fill 1 stand.
i agree, terrible decision by the GAA agian.
Down may bring max 12,000 Kildare maybe more as its so close. Be very lucky to get anywhere near 30,000
Parnell Pk would have done Down v Cork
I think the venue is a great bonus for Down. Wide open spaces to exploit in my opinion a mediocre Cork outfit who will be without some key men! It s a little like the Kerry game last year, everything seems to be fallin nicely for us, no sheehan and no murphy we v a big chance!
I know the bandwagon is gathering pace, but Down didn't get 12,000 at home to Liatroim on a Saturday a few weeks ago. I'd be very surprised if more than 8k red and black make it to Croke, especially if it's on TV.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 18, 2011, 04:15:48 PM
I know the bandwagon is gathering pace, but Down didn't get 12,000 at home to Liatroim on a Saturday a few weeks ago. I'd be very surprised if more than 8k red and black make it to Croke, especially if it's on TV.
There was 6,000 in Newry which were nearly all Down supporters, does anyone know the official attendance at Antrim on Saturday?
I think you are right 8,000 sounds a likely total for Down supporters (partly I would say due to pessimism at our chances), but in and around 12,000 would go if we do get to the quarter finals.
12000 in casement sat nite
Anyone thinking of takin the train from Belfast beware engineering works between Lisburn+portydown
thus a bus transfer between Belfast+Newry!!
Correct 12,000 in casement saturday night and i'd say a good 90% were Down fans!! I reckon they'll only open the lower tier saturday along with the Hill and get a crowd in the region of 40,000!!
The more games you get in croke park the better . Gets players used to the dimentions of the field generally getting to know the run of the place works in you benefit for future games
Martin Carney, the former Donegal and Mayo player who is now a commentator, had a real go at Down in his preview of the Antrim match on Today FM last Friday night. It's available on the station's website, section three of the Matt Cooper Show, about 34 minutes in.
Carney said; `I have lost a lot of belief in Down, to be honest with you, and I'm questioning whether their hearts are in it. I sense it from the way they played against Clare, when they were lucky to get across the line thanks to a clearance from Conor Laverty, and the last day against Leitrim, when they were very unimpressive and needed a tour de force from Benny Coulter to get over the line.
`Those performances are masking the fact that there is a lack of real belief and a lack of real commitment on the part of Down to go the whole hog and get back to an All Ireland, and I think they are very vulnerable against Antrim.'
Hopefully, some of his quotes will be passed on to the Down dressing room before the Cork game at Croke Park. Of course, as Martin will probably confirm, we have no chance anyway and may as well not bother turning up ...
Have to agree with the previous posts regarding playing it at Croke Park. Compare the lack of atmosphere at croke this saturday with that at Healy Park or even Navan last saturday night. I would be very surprised if the crowd on Saturday reaches anywhere near 30,000.
Parnell Park would have been perfect for the match in my opinion, tight ground with great atmosphere something that I think the qualifiers are made for. Portlaoise would also have been an option but id be surprised if Down bring more than 8k and Cork 2K so any ground with a capacity between 10-12K would have been suitable.
Out of interest does anyone know the last time Cork played a championship match outside of Munster or Croke Park?
I think they played in Portlaoise a few years ago. They also played in Wexford Park just last year.
They played Wexford last year in Wexford and Louth in 2007 in Portlaoise.
Jes I must have missed that one. Was that in round 3/4 of the qualifers?
Three, I think. Then Limerick in round 4.
Have to agree with Martin Carney, there does appear to be a lack of belief and committment in the Down squad this year, at times they have appeared very lethargic and disinterested. While Cork have certainly upped their performances from last year, we seem to be going backwards. Disruption caused by injury may be part of the reason, but there must be other causes for the missing spark. Hopefully we will see a resurgence, now that we are at the business end of the season. The talent is there for a serious assault on the title, if they click into gear they are capable of beating any of the remaining teams in a one off game
Carney may be right but what exactly is he basing his opinion on, a few radio reports, a few newspaper snipits, 2 mins on the sunday game?? I cant imagine Carney has seen any of Downs 3 games in the qualifers live.
He is one of many who have to justify their fee by saying something controversal even though he has very little info to back it up.
Up Down. cork are very average and believe their own hype at this stage as we saw in Killarney . Still they can dominate teams for periods but get them rattled early and often and their game plan falls apart. Am going to this cheering on Down (and Derry).
Good man yerself KerryMike, once we bate de langers youse boyos are next (again) ;)
Firstly, thanks for the concern about the Ford CD/Radio front- turned up safe and well.
I think we can beat Cork although Martin Carney has a point about our lethargy.
Starting at the back- our FB line has come on leaps and bounds and if Dee Rafferty is available, we probably are stronger than last year.
The HBs have been criticised but they are likely to suit the Cork challenge better than the teams we've faced to date. I'm assuming it will be the same personnel as last year's AI final.
Midfield is an issue but Kalum is arguably better than last September while Pete Fitz needs to focus on his strengths, not his deficits .Tyrone won 3 All-Irelands with average midfields so it can be done. Ambrose is a loss but he should have 20 minutes if needed.
The forward line is really where the improvement can come. The Down tradition of sevens football is particularly strong in Longstone and Kilcoo- Poly and Lavertys' goals were like something from Kilmacud. Add in 3 Allstars ( they had none in the forward line but we know all about Goulding's free-taking so defence needs discipline), and anyone from Mc Comiskey ( our best forward against them last September),Murtagh and the new kid on the block Mooney and we can cause them problems. Their defence had no answer to Kerry when they ran at them and I believe our forward line is as good as Kerry's ( agree Kerry Mike ? )So a bit of belief and ,most of all, confidence and we can score goals. Cork are a good side - fit, strong and mobile- but I'm not convinced they are a great side.This is the cross-roads for Down football and I believe we have the men on the field and on the sideline to take the right road to show that we are red, we are black, we are Down and we are back
Jesus wept, you're asking for trouble with that last line. Settle yerself.
DD u have put a spring in my step after that post lol. Cant agree that we have as good as forward line as Kerry but our full back line is now as good as it has been in years even without dee rafferty who i dont think will start.
The half back line will prob as u said the same as last years final and I hope they put Rooney on big O'Neill if he is playing as he took him out of the game last year. Its time for him and McKernan to find last years form again!!
Midfield is difficult. It will be King and either McArdle or Fitzpatrick. I dont no if Fitzpatrick has done enough in the last 2 games to warrent a start again? Then again did McArdle do enough to warrent staying on? Is this too big a match for such an inexperienced player? I would hazard a guess that he will go with McArdle. It looks at this stage that we may not see much of Ambrose on sat considering he didnt even get 10 mins when the game was over the other night.
The only change from the starting forward line from last wk is likely to be Danny coming in for Doyle. His and Maginns rustiness is a slight worry but hopefully all the cobwebs were worn off the other night. Add to that McCumisky, Mooney and Murtagh to come the bench and we have options.
If we are in the game with 15 mins to go I fancy us to have a chance. It is however hard to believe that given our performances over the last few weeks that we will be in the game with 15 to go. I really hope Im wrong though.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on July 18, 2011, 09:28:20 PM
Firstly, thanks for the concern about the Ford CD/Radio front- turned up safe and well.
I think we can beat Cork although Martin Carney has a point about our lethargy.
Starting at the back- our FB line has come on leaps and bounds and if Dee Rafferty is available, we probably are stronger than last year.
The HBs have been criticised but they are likely to suit the Cork challenge better than the teams we've faced to date. I'm assuming it will be the same personnel as last year's AI final.
Midfield is an issue but Kalum is arguably better than last September while Pete Fitz needs to focus on his strengths, not his deficits .Tyrone won 3 All-Irelands with average midfields so it can be done. Ambrose is a loss but he should have 20 minutes if needed.
The forward line is really where the improvement can come. The Down tradition of sevens football is particularly strong in Longstone and Kilcoo- Poly and Lavertys' goals were like something from Kilmacud. Add in 3 Allstars ( they had none in the forward line but we know all about Goulding's free-taking so defence needs discipline), and anyone from Mc Comiskey ( our best forward against them last September),Murtagh and the new kid on the block Mooney and we can cause them problems. Their defence had no answer to Kerry when they ran at them and I believe our forward line is as good as Kerry's ( agree Kerry Mike ? )So a bit of belief and ,most of all, confidence and we can score goals. Cork are a good side - fit, strong and mobile- but I'm not convinced they are a great side.This is the cross-roads for Down football and I believe we have the men on the field and on the sideline to take the right road to show that we are red, we are black, we are Down and we are back
tinted glasses perhaps??coulter,clarke and hughes could well start for a kerry team, others wouldnt be close
Quoteand I believe our forward line is as good as Kerry's
As they say in Kerry shows us your medals :P
Seriously though Down have to win one to be classed even remotely in the vicinity of greats don't be hyping them up too much, they have enough pressure on them to go as far or beyond what they did last year, its a tough ask for them , get over the langers and who knows...
Kerry get provincial medals almost every year for effectively winning a single match, and can plan their summers in the virtual certainty that they will at least be in the last round of the qualifiers and more likely in the last eight. They won an All Ireland as recently as 1997 without having to beat a single county which had lifted Sam in the previous 40 years. They produce outstanding footballers, but it has never been a level playing field.
I think its set up nicely for Down to be honest. They've nothing to lose and for the first time this season there going in as underdogs. Downs first half AIF performance last year was sublime and if they can recreate anything close to that for 70 minutes I think they can win.
Cork while not taking Down for granted expect to win and I think Down can exploit this complacency and reach the QFs, Though to do so I feel they'll need to score 2 or 3 goals as I cant see them winning by scoring only points.
According to O'Neill's facebook page Down will be playing in the new black away jersey:
O'Neills Sportswear
can formally announce that Down will be playing in their NEW BLACK AWAY jersey this Saturday! The team will have a collar on the jersey but this exclusive to the Down players ONLY!! The official supporters jersey will be the one Shown... Click here to support your county and wear your colours with pride!!!! http://www.oneills.com/productdetails/2932/down-2011-gaa-goalkeeper-jersey.aspx
which when you click on the link is the GK jersey. O'Neill's are pure money grabbing b******s!! What's wrong with the yellow jersey!
While form is important, in championship football the level of the opposition dictates a lot. Down have indeed played their last four games at a level that, if replicated against Cork, will see us lose. But each player will go in with a higher level of concentration and a greater level of determination. Each player knows his individual opponent is better than the previous guys he faced.
I expect each player will try to lift his game and it is unrealistic to compare performances against Antrim to those we will see against Cork. There will be no holding back or guarding against aggravating injury. This the game where the lads know they have to empty the tank to win. Against Clare, Leitrim, and to a lesser extent Antrim you could see the application wasn't 100%. It was more a case of getting over the next hurdle.
On talent alone we have enough to beat them, it really depends on whether the boys can play up to their talent level on the day, and if they can concentrate for the full 70 minutes, especially the middle 20 where we have suffered so much recently. On thing Cork do not like is teams that get in and fight them for the ball. If we get Maginn and Hughes in there foraging then we could get the possession we need to do damage.
Last year when an opposing forward got the ball he was swarmed around and couldn't move it easily, that approach applied as a high energy pressure system took us all the way to the All-Ireland final. This year we have defended a lot more man for man. I think we need to see an upping in the energy level and really closing down Cork players fast to force errors. If we can do that then we do have a chance because late in the game, as legs tire our forwards will be given chances to exploit space and we will have the likes of Mooney to come on to inject pace.
Im led to believe that there isn't too much interest in tickets so far across the county for Saturday's game.
Quote from: DownFanatic on July 19, 2011, 02:40:20 PM
Im led to believe that there isn't too much interest in tickets so far across the county for Saturday's game.
cant you just turn up and get them outside the ground. I will just rturn up and get mine before throw in.
yeah i would say everyone is waiting to see who all can make the game before buying and a lot will buy at the gate - wouldn't worry about that
so any ideas on line up for saturday?
Just google mapped my route from Cork...estimated fuel cost for a standard petrol car €35 each way!!! No wonder the Cork lads aren't chomping at the bit to get to this match!! How much are the tickets anyway?
I see Michael Duffy from Sligo is the man in the middle for Saturday.
Quote from: downgirl on July 19, 2011, 04:38:56 PM
Just google mapped my route from Cork...estimated fuel cost for a standard petrol car €35 each way!!! No wonder the Cork lads aren't chomping at the bit to get to this match!! How much are the tickets anyway?
€25 on Ticketmaster, Down county board will likely be £25 sterling known them.
Thanks MDG, might just get it from a ticket van on the day!
Quote from: downgirl on July 19, 2011, 05:58:01 PM
Thanks MDG, might just get it from a ticket van on the day!
I reakon many supporters will do likewise, much handier.
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 19, 2011, 05:40:15 PM
I see Michael Duffy from Sligo is the man in the middle for Saturday.
Fussy wee shite...will not help either team having him in the middle!
Quote from: Naomh Pol CLG on July 19, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 19, 2011, 05:40:15 PM
I see Michael Duffy from Sligo is the man in the middle for Saturday.
Fussy wee shite...will not help either team having him in the middle!
Don't know about that NP, if he's fussy enough to stop Noel O Leary riding Martin Clarke things might work a bit better for Down.
I sincerely hope James has a plan to win our own kick outs sat night, If we do that at least we will win
Quote from: passedit on July 19, 2011, 08:12:39 PM
Quote from: Naomh Pol CLG on July 19, 2011, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 19, 2011, 05:40:15 PM
I see Michael Duffy from Sligo is the man in the middle for Saturday.
Fussy wee shite...will not help either team having him in the middle!
Don't know about that NP, if he's fussy enough to stop Noel O Leary riding Martin Clarke things might work a bit better for Down.
I sincerely hope James has a plan to win our own kick outs sat night, If we do that at least we will win
Down shouldnt worry too much about corks midfield imo, murphy is injured and oconnor is a very limited footballer..............walsh is not near any sort of form, looked like he was in the saddle all night before the kerry game.............. however he could turn it on on sat.......................down have a great chance, marshall paddy kelly well....................super footballer
Why are there no Cork posters on GAA Board?
The loss of Sheehan and Colm O'Neill are obvious difficulties for Cork.
The loss of Murphy is being played down as he wasn't a regular starter, which is fair enough. However he was a regular substitute. He is used to replace a midfielder (normally Walsh) in most games. I guess that is to keep energy levels up in that sector, as Cork build much of their success on their ability to win midfield primary ball. The fact that they won't have the ability to freshen up the midfield in this way may or may not have a bearing on the game, we can only wait to see. But it could be more important than it first seems.
Croker colour clash resolutions
20 July 2011
All four teams will sport alternative colours for Saturday's Croke Park qualifier double header.
As the first-choice strips would have led to a clash of colours for both the Kildare V Derry and Down V Cork matches, the four sides change to their second strips.
This means Kildare will be the Lilygreens as they lock horns with a Derry side sporting all red.
And two sides that normally wear red will change to white and black respectively: Cork will again wear the white jerseys used in last year's All-Ireland final against Down, but the Mourne men - who wore yellow last September - have registered a new black second strip.
It should all make for a colourful spectacle at HQ.
This new black strip just a replica of the keepers jersey then?
Quote from: real food, real people on July 20, 2011, 04:07:13 PM
This new black strip just a replica of the keepers jersey then?
yep as far as i know, not that it will have any effect on the outcome of the match.
but that thing they wore for last years AI and the previous years u21 All Ireland finals was minging.
Good news about the black shirts.
I got dog's abuse for saying it was a consideration when we did the post-mortem on the final but footballers ( and managers) are a superstitious bunch and this is no surprise.We will, of course, need a lot more than a change of shirt and Brendy Mc Veigh will be a central figure in helping us win possession. But I think he will.We have options in every sector and revenge is always a dish best served cold.
The Cork Senior Football team to play Down in the All-Ireland Football Championship Round 4 on Saturday at 6pm in Croke Park will line out as follows:
1. Alan Quirke
Valley Rovers
2. Jamie O'Sullivan 3. Graham Canty 4. Michael Shields
Bishopstown Bantry Blues St. Finbarrs
5. Noel O'Leary 6. John Miskella 7. Paudie Kissane
Cill na Martra Ballincollig Clyda Rovers
8. Alan O'Connor 9. Aidan Walsh
St. Colums Kanturk
10. Fintan Goold 11. Patrick Kelly 12. Pearse O'Neill
Macroom Ballincollig Aghada
13. Daniel Goulding 14. Donncha O'Connor 15. Paul Kerrigan
Eire Óg Ballydesmond Nemo Rangers
Blame the Cork Langers GAA page for the lack of formatting , fecked if I am correcting their mistakes.
Not a hope our backs will line out as selected
Having lost AI finals (u21 and senior) by a single point to Cork in consecutive years while wearing the yellow jerseys, switching to an All Black kit cannot do any harm and might even send out a message of intent. Cork are fully entitled to be warm favourites, but it is a fact that the Sam Maguire has only been retained once in the last two decades. On the 19 occasions out of 20 when the defending champions were beaten, very few people saw it coming. However, it is very tough to keep form and fitness where they should be in the modern game over consecutive seasons, and Cork will be more vulnerable in the qualifiers than anywhere from the last eight onwards.
Down's performances until the final qualifiers were as ordinary last year as this time round, and there were at least some signs against Antrim that we are capable of making the improvements we need for Saturday night. If we can get a goal during our periods of ascendancy, which we failed to do in the league game last Spring and in the 2010 final, anything is possible.
Our defence remains an obvious concern, and James has a big call to make over Rooney. His form in the qualifiers has been poor, and he was all at sea at Casement Park, but he is an experienced player and a more than capable one on his day. If he is rested, the obvious move would be Brannigan to wing half with Rafferty returning at corner back. Rafferty has been out for most of the year but the word is that he is completely fit again and he has never let us down in the past. The tactic of switching McKernan on to the opposition's spare man at the back has worked pretty well, but Cork are more likely to go with a fairly traditional formation and McKernan cannot leave the gaps which Antrim were able to find in the second quarter last week.
James obviously sees an advantage in using Anton McArdle to do the running in midfield and allowing King to get in the tackles , but McArdle is still very raw at this level and there is a danger that he could find Croke Park a step too far in his first championship season. Fitzpatrick has looked more like himself coming off the bench in the last two games, and would be a safer bet.
Maginn has possibly his worst game for Down at Casement, and Hughes lacked match practice when he came on, but they are quality players when fully fit and,with Doyle taking another knock last week, they will both probably need to start. Clarke, Poland, Benny and Laverty should be automatic choices, and having McComiskey and Mooney in reserve gives us a range of options. The chances of Ambrose appearing must be slim, but we live in hope.
It is possible that Cork will blow us away from the start, but they looked more than a little hesitant for the first two thirds of their last game against Kerry. They know we have players who can hurt them, and even n a half empty stadium we will outnumber their support by four or five to one. If we are still in touch in the final quarter, we will be in with a big chance.
Rooney plays his best when he has a man marking job to do . When he hasnt a specific man to mark he is at sea but as we saw last year he can mark anybody on his day .
Surprised Cadogan is not selected. Half back line suspect. Midfield will be tested and not the same replacement options as last year.
Just like the week before last year's All Ireland Final I am in the same quandary. I genuinely dont know whether or not we are capable of beating Cork.
I thought the Final last year would be tight but I genuinely didn't believe we could win. I think Im leaning towards this thinking again. I hate being pessimistic but I dont feel that we can beat Cork on Saturday.
As expected we stepped it up a gear against Antrim and in the end we won comfortably enough. To defeat Cork we need to step it up another gear and then some. Whether we can muster this amount of progress in the space of seven days remains to be seen.
If the named Cork team is to believed then we are up against a heck of a challenge. My biggest worry facing Cork is their ability from set pieces. They will punish us big time for any indiscretions in the backline.
Our lineup should reflect an emphasis on our big game players. McVeigh in goals fronted by Brannigan, Gordon and Gerard McCartan. The latter three face a massive challenge against Goulding, O'Connor and Kerrigan. Id have Dan McCartan in for Brannigan only McCartan hasn't seen much game time of late and might be a bit ring rusty. Rafferty would obviously be in as first choice corner back but his lack of appearances to date is obviously counting against him.
Garvey, McKernan and Rooney would make up my halfback line. Rooney would be matched with O'Neill to try to negate his aerial influence while Id put Garvey on Kelly who I believe is Cork's best player. McKernan would then pick up Goold who is the least threatening of that forward line.
King will obviously lead the midfield and although many mightn't be keen on it Id throw Peter Fitzpatrick in to accompany him. Both lads should be hellbent on redeeming themselves from last year's AIF in that sector. Anton McArdle is far too inexperienced while Fitzpatrick has three AIF's under his belt at Minor, U-21 and Senior.
Selecting 6 forwards throws up a conundrum and thats why I think Wee James and Co will have a rotation system in place that will utilise all ten who are in contention. Id go for Poland at centre half flanked by Hughes and Clarke. Benny should be target man on the edge of the square with Laverty and McComiskey in the corners. Mooney and Maginn are quickfire options to fire off the bench if we need fresh legs to take the game to Cork. Doyle and Carr are also available if needed but this type of game mightn't be suited to their style.
We have enough in our package to go for a fully blown 70 minute humdinger with the Rebels. I hope to f**k im proved wrong but I think they might just be one step ahead of us.
Id love to see Canty on Coulter after canty's display in the Munster final
How about Doyle at Centre Half Forward-stronger on the ball with a great pass albeit maybe not as mobile as Poland
I have had more negative than positive vibes about the Cork game but the closer we get to Saturday the more confident I am getting. I remember watching Cork at this stage of the season last year and they struggled badly with Limerick and Roscommon. They have a few players out injured, like ourselves, but our main players seem to be on the mend and ready for some action. My biggest fear is that this game could be a week too early and another 7 days would have them in better shape.
In the all ireland last year, Cork were able to bring on Derek Kavanagh, Nicholas Murphy and Graham Canty. In any mans language that is a wealth of power, experience and 3 long careers of hurt and desire to eventually win an All Ireland. I thought they starved Down of posession when they were on the pitch last september. This year however Kavanagh has retired, Murphy is injured and Canty is starting, they will not have these 3 experienced lads to come on fresh and close the game out for them.
With the possibility of Down introducing Ambrose in the 2nd half and possibly mooney or McCommiskey (if he doesnt start and had a very good aif last year} the sub bench might be more beneficial to us this year. I hope so anyway.
Down played nothing in the second half of the AIF, won feck all in midfield and still only lost by a point.
So I agree with the posters that state that Cork aren't all they are made out to be.
70 minutes of hard football will beat Cork, but Down have to go at it from the start, no messin.
We will know after fifteen minutes whether they are up for avenging the previous U21 and AIF defeats.
I think energy and drive are the key components here. If we try to match Cork man for man then we will lose. The way to beat them is fro all the players to be constantly at them, never give them a moments piece. The question would be if we have enough stamina to last 70 minutes of that sort of high octane football.
Because of their reputation and obvious power, I feel Cork are used to teams backing off them to try and defend deep. So I reckon that the only option is to harry and hassle them. No doubt there is speed in our forward line if we can get turn over or dirty ball. We will have Mooney and McComiskey to come on so the forwards know they can afford to burn themselves out if they have to. Laverty is much faster than John Clarke ever was.
As someone else pointed out Cork's bench has always been wisely used. All season they have used Nicholas Murphy to replace a midfielder (normally Walsh). That allows Walsh to give his max and when he starts to tire they can replace him. They will not have that option on Saturday.
I don't know, we are still a 4/9 shot and probably deservedly so. Cork are in better form, they have the better track record, they have class all over the pitch, they are physically stronger, they are full of confidence, they have experience of fightbacks before and won them. I have to say hand on heart I think we will come up short (and I am far from a negative supporter). But we will be competitive and you just never know what happens with a lucky bounce or break of the ball.
I just hope the lads go out there and play it with the attitude Armagh did against us, getting stuck in and playing at 100% from the throw in. If they do that, then we won't be too far away.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 20, 2011, 11:05:47 PM
Down played nothing in the second half of the AIF, won feck all in midfield and still only lost by a point.
So I agree with the posters that state that Cork aren't all they are made out to be.
70 minutes of hard football will beat Cork, but Down have to go at it from the start, no messin.
We will know after fifteen minutes whether they are up for avenging the previous U21 and AIF defeats.
Mc Ardle is not ready for this level, although with Corks injuries they have to rely on O Connor and a unpredictable Walsh to put in big shifts. Introducing a new midfield in a now fully fit Ambrose and Fitzpatrick with 20 to go, replicating what Cork did in last years final could be key!
surely if ambrose was fully fit, he would have got game time against antrim. so i'd be surprised to see him at all on sat.
I feel the same about Ambrose myself Bridgegael . He would of been eased into games with ten mins building up 20 to a half . It would be a serious ask to expect him to come on against Cork and be flying after almost a year out . We will have to rely on a mid fied ranging from nos 5 to 12 to stand any chance of winning this game not just 8 and 9
Saturday is do or die and while I dont expect Ambrose to start, I do expect him to feature at some stage. It would be a massive lift for the whole team and supporters to see him enter the fray even if only for the vital last 10 or 20 minutes.
http://tv.gaa.ie/#/49016/976/round-the-square-episode-4-2011
Good interview with Daniel Goulding here.
Expect changes in the Cork FB line from team named. Eoin Cotter and Eoin Cadogan rumoured to start instead of Jamie O'Sullivan and Paudi Kissane. Move would see Canty at CB and Miskella on wing.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 18, 2011, 11:13:27 PM
Kerry get provincial medals almost every year for effectively winning a single match, and can plan their summers in the virtual certainty that they will at least be in the last round of the qualifiers and more likely in the last eight. They won an All Ireland as recently as 1997 without having to beat a single county which had lifted Sam in the previous 40 years. They produce outstanding footballers, but it has never been a level playing field.
we have won or reached AI finals through the back door and front door. This constant bleating about the provincials is just the usual bullshit excuse from lads like you. We saw what happened when you played Wicklow and Longford(??) a few years back. This supposed differnce in standards is completely overblown. We have not been caught in the qualifiers because we dont underestimate any team unlike you Down lads who thought you only had to turn up to beat those Munster "minnows" Clare.
Also, as I have said before, you Ulster bies always moan but I never hear any of ye do anything about it. If the situation is so unjust why havent you done anything about it ? When was the last time a motion went before congress to scrap the provincials..? was the motion proposed by someone from Ulster ?..how did Ulster vote ?
I say bring it on. Scrap the provincials and go with open draw, champions league format..whatever...as long as we dont have to listen to ye're lame excuses.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on July 21, 2011, 08:27:16 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 18, 2011, 11:13:27 PM
Kerry get provincial medals almost every year for effectively winning a single match, and can plan their summers in the virtual certainty that they will at least be in the last round of the qualifiers and more likely in the last eight. They won an All Ireland as recently as 1997 without having to beat a single county which had lifted Sam in the previous 40 years. They produce outstanding footballers, but it has never been a level playing field.
we have won or reached AI finals through the back door and front door. This constant bleating about the provincials is just the usual bullshit excuse from lads like you. We saw what happened when you played Wicklow and Longford(??) a few years back. This supposed differnce in standards is completely overblown. We have not been caught in the qualifiers because we dont underestimate any team unlike you Down lads who thought you only had to turn up to beat those Munster "minnows" Clare.
Also, as I have said before, you Ulster bies always moan but I never hear any of ye do anything about it. If the situation is so unjust why havent you done anything about it ? When was the last time a motion went before congress to scrap the provincials..? was the motion proposed by someone from Ulster ?..how did Ulster vote ?
I say bring it on. Scrap the provincials and go with open draw, champions league format..whatever...as long as we dont have to listen to ye're lame excuses.
Would have to say I agree with Mike Sheehy here. If the provincials were the reason Kerry won so many All-Irelands, why then have Cork not won the same - or in Connacht, why have Galway and Mayo not got the same record as Kerry?
Yes I can understand the frustration of not winning even a provincial medal in Ulster and Leinster -
For me Kerry have always been best at adapting to the 'new' style of play.
They took on the Down style of football after the sixties and returned it better than anyone played it. They took the Tyrone/Armagh style of football and garnered a few All Irelands from it, producing some of the best footballers the game has seen.
They do to football what The Beatles and the Stones did to American Blues music, they took it in and brought it forward.
While I am not a fan of some of their tactics and Jack O'Connor's 'oh woe is me' attitude over the past couple of years, you can't question their pedigree.
QuoteWould have to say I agree with Mike Sheehy here.
Now there's something you dont see every day.
QuoteIf the provincials were the reason Kerry won so many All-Irelands, why then have Cork not won the same - or in Connacht, why have Galway and Mayo not got the same record as Kerry?
Or Cavan's 39 Ulster titles and 5 All Irelands !
QuoteThey won an All Ireland as recently as 1997 without having to beat a single county which had lifted Sam in the previous 40 years.
Yes and it was 11 years for us before that so I dont see the relevance of 1997
The relevance of 1997 was that Kerry, even after a relatively poor spell, were given the opportunity to win an All Ireland without having to face even one of the other main contenders of the time.
My previous post said that Kerry have won the most All Irelands because they consistently produce outstanding footballers, and that would be the case under any format for the competition. However, if there was an open draw or a Champions League structure, Kerry would almost certainly still be the most successful county but they would not be as completely dominant as they are now.
Connacht is a province with a limited population but it is usually tight there between Mayo, Galway and Roscommon. Sligo beat Mayo and Galway last year but lost to Leitrim this summer, so there is a reasonable standard across the five counties.
In Munster, Cork are a dual county, and hurling is very much the main game for many of their clubs, so there are periods when they find it difficult to compete with Kerry.
As for the other four counties, these are their provincial records, Clare - one title in 94 years; Tipperary - none in 76 years; Waterford - none in 103 years; and Limerick - none in 105 years .
With seven of the nine Ulster counties winning provincial titles in less than a quarter of a century, and the other two, Antrim and Fermanagh, losing finals in the last three years, it is difficult to see a level playing field even before considering that five Ulster teams have won the All Ireland in the last 20 years.
The current mix of provincial championships and the open draw would be the fairest option if the weaker Munster counties could be encouraged to push on. Clare should certainly have beaten Down in the first round qualifier, so nothing is impossible.
Having got a kick in the arse from Kerry Cork will be a very dangerous animal on Saturday. At the same time if Ambrose was back and properly match fit I would fancy Down to do a job on them ...Through my red and black tinted glasses the single best display of last years championship was Down's vs Kerry and Ambrose was central to that. Down never reached those heights again and lost the All Ireland final by a point. In Ambrose' continued absence and with one of our other key men Danny / Benny carrying injuries it will be hard to imagine that Down can reverse form from last September.
The changes in personnel in the Down defence may marginally improve it but last years excellent half back line are struggling to find form . Down midfield and own kickout strategy have disimproved . If James starts Anton McArdle there it will be a real gamble on youth. Up front we might have blooded a few more options than last year . Laverty if he gets protection from the referee could cause problems. Mooney if introduced will ask similar questions from his defender. Marty though hasnt been able to impose himself on games in the same way this season - John pulling out and this Australia business has to be a distraction - and we really can only hope that Croke Park will bring the best out of him .
No matter what kind of performance Down put up , Brolly and his ilk will keep writing of last years run as some kind of lucky run/fluke if they dont win. Down need to win .
http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=2818
QuoteDown set to renew rivalry with Cork in football qualifiers
By Noel Horgan Saturday July 23rd, 2011
BY NOEL HORGAN
DOWN were the surprise packets in last year's championship and not everyone was convinced they would be capable of making a major bid for All-Ireland glory in 2011.
An indifferent league campaign did nothing to dispel the doubts surrounding Down's ability to build on their meteoric rise to prominence last season, and the notion that they were destined to make an early exit from the Sam Maguire race gathered momentum after they went under by five points to Armagh in their opening test in Ulster.
They almost came a cropper in the first round of the qualifiers when the intervention of corner forward Conor Laverty, who cleared a goal-bound shot off the line in stoppage time, denied Clare a famous victory in Ennis.
Bearing in mind that Clare had shipped a 14-point thrashing from Cork in Munster, the game raised massive questions about Down's current well-being, and it suggests they are unlikely to avenge last year's All-Ireland final defeat when rivalry is renewed with the Rebels at Croke Park next Saturday evening.
But it should be noted that Down didn't exactly set the world on fire in the early rounds of the qualifiers last year, coming through with four points to spare over Longford, and finishing just two to the good against Offaly after that.
They romped home in the fourth round against a Sligo side that was playing a third championship game in successive weeks and that had endured a morale-shattering defeat at the hands of Roscommon in the Connacht final.
Not enough
It wasn't enough to convince the pundits that the Mourne men were equipped to put it up to Kerry in the All-Ireland quarter final, but they rose to the occasion in great style, fashioning a comfortable six-point victory to extend the county's 100% record in championship encounters with the Kingdom to five games since 1960.
Buoyed up by that win over the reigning All-Ireland champions, Down edged out Kildare in the semi final, and they came within an ace of bridging a 16-year gap in the showpiece.
Whether Down can reproduce the heroics which enabled them to emerge from the doldrums last year remains to be seen, but they showed signs that they are building up a bit of steam again when accounting for Leitrim and Antrim over the past two weekends.
Still, beating Leitrim and Antrim was nothing to write home about and, while they won both games convincingly enough, the form they displayed left a bit to be desired, and the consensus is that their rate of improvement since the start of the championship needs to be speeded up significantly if they hope to topple Cork.
Down boss James McCartan acknowledged as much after the win over Antrim, stating that he would have preferred to be facing Cork later on in the season.
Innate swagger
For all that, Down, as was evidenced last year, almost invariably carry an innate swagger once they get to Croke Park, and they will relish the opportunity to turn the tables on the Rebels and achieve the distinction of dethroning the All-Ireland champions for the second season on the trot.
And if they start as well as they did in last year's final, they might well have learned enough from the traumatic experience endured at the business end of their previous championship showdown with Cork to be able to protect a sizeable lead this time.
There is no denying that taking so long to settle into games is a serious worry for Cork at this stage.
They managed to dig themselves out of a deep hole in last year's All-Ireland semi final against Dublin, in the final against Down, and in this season's league decider against the Dubs, but they learned the hard way in the recent Munster final against Kerry that a second half resurgence won't always be enough to compensate for a lethargic first-half performance.
What's going to make it harder to stage a recovery in the event of a tardy start on Saturday is that Cork won't be able to call on the services of injured Nicholas Murphy, who repeatedly produced the goods when sprung from the bench over the course of last year's championship, not least in the final against Down.
Cork will be weakened as well by the absence of cruciate ligament victim Ciaran Sheehan.
Indeed, had Murphy been available against Kerry, and had not Sheehan been forced to exit the fray six minutes into the second half, the outcome of the Munster final might have been different.
With Colm O'Neill also out for the season, Cork's strength-in-depth, which was a key factor in enabling them to reach the summit in 2010, has been severely diminished, and, no doubt, Down will draw a certain amount of encouragement from that, given that they finished just a point adrift of the Rebels last year.
More compelling
But the Munster final defeat will hardly be viewed as a major setback for Cork, and the reality is that they possess far more compelling credentials than Down.
As well as lifting the All-Ireland last year, they retained the National League title this season, clocking up a decisive 3-17 to 0-15 win over Down at Pairc Ui Rinn along the way.
And in 23 championship outings since Conor Counihan took the helm in 2008, they have suffered just four defeats, all of which were incurred at Kerry's hands. Based on developments so far this year, they would appear to be in much better shape than Down at the moment
All things considered, Cork would have to be fancied to get back to winning ways against Down, and, if they can hit the ground running this time, the likelihood is that they will enjoy a much smoother passage than was the case in their previous collision with the Northerners at Croker.
The independent.ie preview of Down V Cork ??? :-\
QuoteThe other game in Croke Park between Down and Cork will go along the lines of last year's All-Ireland final. I expect Noel O'Leary to be deployed to shadow Martin Clarke again and despite their injuries, the Rebels can pull through against James McCartan's stuttering side.
We are being written off which is good, teams prefer to be the underdogs it takes pressure off. But I have to say the critics are not being unfair. On current form Cork deserve to be favourites and there are really no compelling reasons to justify faith in a Down victory. Cork have quality all over the field, and one of the few defences that have the ability to contain our forward line, while possessing in Goulding and O'Connor forwards who can score from anywhere. There are no obvious weaknesses in the Cork team.
So it is all down to the fact that as long as a team competes, works hard and can keep close, anything can happen. Kildare are performing with an average set of players but their attitude and application has lifted them up a level. If Down show a similar approach then it will be possible to beat Cork. Laverty & Mooney are probably faster than anything Cork have. Danny and Benny are genuine All-stars. Marty needs to be on form but if he is then he can pass a ball anywhere he likes.
The defence need to work together and harder than they have done since any day last September. But the weather is good, the ball and field will be dry. We have a good chance. Fingers crossed that we can do it, which would be a surprise but certainly not a shock
To be honest we havent done anything to dispell the begrdgers of Brolley et all. and a substantial beating tomorrow night will right off any good done last year as a flash in the pan.
Cork are raging hot favourites for this and we need to take our chances. Goals are required. we idnt get any in last years final when on top and that killed us.
There was too much fannying about in front of the posts in the firast half against Leirtrim and Antrim, this wont do against Cork.
McVeigh needs to alternate his kickouts and all need to all be at the top of their game if down are to have any chance tomorrow evening.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 21, 2011, 10:18:04 PM
In Munster, Cork are a dual county, and hurling is very much the main game for many of their clubs, so there are periods when they find it difficult to compete with Kerry.
That doesn't make a lick of sense. Cork have far more than double the no. of Gaelic Football clubs as Kerry and double the no. of Gaelic Football players even when dual players are discounted, so when do they ever have an excuse no to be able to compete with Kerry?
Cork have more than 80 Junior Football clubs alone compared to just 16 in Kerry.
There might be more All-Ireland winning counties in Ulster but Cork have more All-Irelands than Tyrone, Derry, Donegal and Armagh put together.
We often hear how Kerry (including their 70s team) wouldn't have as many All-Irelands if they were in Ulster, well look at Kerry's results v Ulster teams in the c'ship in the 70s and early 80s:
1970 Kerry 0-23 Derry 0-10
1976 Kerry 5-14 Derry 1-10
1979 Kerry 5-14 Monaghan 0-7
1982 Kerry 3-15 Armagh 1-11
This is what Kerry were doing to the best team in Ulster, do you really think the weaker teams in Ulster would have fared any better?
Kerry would probably have more All-Irelands if they were in Ulster - they would have probably won Ulster in '83 and would have been well able to handle Dublin in the final as proved in '84 and '85.
As for '97, this is being questioned because Clare, Cavan and Mayo hadn't won All-Irelands in the previous 40 years? So if teams weaker than those e.g. Cork, Down and Offaly had somehow fluked their way through and Kerry had beaten these lesser teams who each had won All-Irelands in the previous 40 years it would be considered a much greater achievement?
The argument would have more merit imo if Kerry weren't regularly winning the NFL, but they are. In all fairness, the provincial/all ireland win ratio is the best indicator. Kerry's quiet good, teams like Monaghan, Mayo, Cavan, Galway, Armagh (sorry lads!) etc not the best.
Then again, Cork's ratio is poor also.
According to Down website no changes from last wk.
Expected Hughes to start instead of Doyle and possibly Fitzpatrick for McArdle which may still happen if that is another bogey team announcement.
Dont think it would be an understatement to say that if he does start McArdle it will be one of James biggest selection calls of his tenure. If it works he will get alot of plaudits, if it doesnt there will be some backlash but suppose that is what intercounty management is all about, u need a thick skin!!
Quote from: whitegoodman on July 22, 2011, 01:33:00 PM
According to Down website no changes from last wk.
Expected Hughes to start instead of Doyle and possibly Fitzpatrick for McArdle which may still happen if that is another bogey team announcement.
Dont think it would be an understatement to say that if he does start McArdle it will be one of James biggest selection calls of his tenure. If it works he will get alot of plaudits, if it doesnt there will be some backlash but suppose that is what intercounty management is all about, u need a thick skin!!
Seriously? No changes?
Well thats a boost for Cork. Cause we werent up to the task until Danny Hughes actually came on last week. Getting more daunting by the hour
It was predictable that James would officially name an unchanged team, but the actual line-up is another matter. Doyle was excellent against Leitrim but looked as though playing a second game within a week - after being out for three years - caught up with him at Casement Park. Unless Hughes has suffered a setback in training, it is likely that he will start. As Whitegoodman says, the decison on McArdle is a massive one for our management. Most Down supporters will expect to see Fitzpatrrick brought in, as, though his form has been variable, he has the experience and can take a score. It is possible that James believes McArdle's pace is necessary to balance King's relative lack of mobility, but starting a championship rookie at Croke Park would be a huge risk. As everyone knows, a midfield collapse cost us an All Ireland last year. If James can put that right, anything is possible. He usually wears an All Blacks cap during matches, so our change of kit might be an omen for him.
If this the team that starts then we will be up against it. But few teams over power another team in the first half so I'd rather see these guys start than finish the game. If this group play and can stick at Cork and keep close to them then in the second half we would have McComiskey, Hughes, Mooney and Fitzpatrick to come on. Possibly even Ambrose (though I doubt that one). If we are within a few points around the 50 minute mark then we really have the bench to improve the quality on the pitch and hopefully finish the stronger team.
The team may change but if James does indeed start it then I can only presume his strategy is to push for a strong finish. Is this a sign that James wants to turn the "strong bench" tables on Cork?
Mc Ardle is a massive gamble but he obvivously is showing well in training James is not thinking about him if he is not confident he can do a job . Dont believe that Doyle will start looked like he was injuried last week and as someone said the consession of games is taking its toll .Fitzpatrick is like someone low on confidence and might be better coming off the bench . He hasnt played all that well from a starting place and seems better when he watches the game for a while . The correct use of the bench is vital so lets hope there is no pre arranged substitutions and it is down to how well each player is doing not like september . See Mooneys grandmother has died yesterday
Down look to have a stronger bench alright this year but I wouldn't write off Cork's either. Sure we're down Nick Murphy, Colm O Neill and Ciaran Sheehan, the latter 2 providing a lot of the guile in our forward line but when it comes to powerful lads off the bench we don't compare. Paudi Kissane, probably Canty, Fiachra Lynch, Denis O Sullivan all pushing hard for the starting 15 but probably won't make it. Where we're short is corner/full forward options. If Down want to win this one you'll have to get a biggish lead and hold on, can't see ye living with us otherwise.
Really hope this is better than the final last year, obviously I'm tipping Cork but best of luck tomorrow and hope it's a cracker, the football championship could do with one.
Some bad news. Coalan Mooney's grandmother deied last night and will be buried tomorrow. It looks like he won't be able to go to the gam at all.
I go tomorrow in hope rather in expectation.
The positives are that I really feel our much maligned full back line can at least break even against Cork's full forward line. Brannigan is playing as well as he ever has, McCartan is going to be a top player and Dan is playing with great confidence and authority.
Our full foward line has the ability to roast the full back line and I really hope they put Canty on Coulter. Dont think Cork will know what to make of Laverty and by the time they do I hope it is too late for them.
Cork are not playing as well as last year and have some injuries to key players. Do they have the same motivation as last year? Do they have the same motivation as Down to avenge last years defeat?
That unfortunately is were the positives end imo. Now for the negative.
Our half back line are not playing even close to the level they performed last year. I would stick with them in the hope that they up their game as they are all big game players.
Midfield has been and still is problematic. King gives a physical presence, gives his all, overs defensive cover but lacks stamina. McArdle is big, strong, pacey and energetic. He does however lack composure, experience and a cool head. Fitzpatrick is a player lacking in confidence and may be better sprung from the bench but may be called upon to start as a necessity. Hopefully Ambrose is fit to come on 4 15/20 but at this stage it looks unlikely.
The half foward line have had injury problems and a lack of top form. Are Maginn and Hughes fully fit? Is Doyle fit to run and up down Croke Park with the Cork half backs? Thankfully Poland returned to some of last years form last wk and long may it continue but we are still waiting for Marty to ignite. Hopefully this is the time and the place.
As I said I go in hope. I would never bet against Down but Cork -3 at evens looks pretty good odds.
Best of luck to Down tomorrow I really hope ye can pull it off and win.
Quote from: whitegoodman on July 22, 2011, 09:16:40 PM.
Our full foward line has the ability to roast the full back line and I really hope they put Canty on Coulter. Dont think Cork will know what to make of Laverty and by the time they do I hope it is too late for them.
No way in the world Canty will be in the full back line. The Cork back 3 will be Cotter-Shields-Cadogan. Pretty solid.
I am not as pessimistic as some posters. I am a big believer in momentum.
Last year Down only beat Longford by 4 points in round 2 and almost lost to Offally in round 3, but clicked in round 4 to win by a huge margin v. Sligo.
This year they have arguably done better by beating Leitrim in round 2 and Antrim in round 3, both by bigger margins. The Longford and Offally of 2010 are not much different to the Leitrim and Antrim of 2011.
Of course Cork of 2011 are better than Sligo of 2010, but this could just be the round that Down click. So the Down +3 just might be a better bet than the Cork -3
Was being pretty optimistic thinking that Canty would go on Coulter. Will it be Shields or Cadogen on Coulter?
You think Canty will go to CHB or not start at all?
If what goes around comes around Cadogan and O Leary will get what is coming to them shortly.
Down at 6/1 double result is an interesting price. Down can't win this coming from behind - Cork's athleticism sees them stepping up a gear in the second half.
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 22, 2011, 09:03:59 PM
Some bad news. Coalan Mooney's grandmother deied last night and will be buried tomorrow. It looks like he won't be able to go to the gam at all.
He trained last night would say he will be there
The price of 6/1 for Down to be winning at half time and full time is a decent one, although, with the quality on our bench and Cork's injury list, the idea that we would finish strongly is surely not out of the question. Another bet available is Marty to be the top scorer in the championship at 33/1. It could be over later today, but those odds will fall sharply if we are still in the draw on Sunday. While he is seventh overall at the moment, the Meath and Longford players ahead of him are not going to add to their total. There are also two Wexford forwards there, who cannot be guaranteed to get beyond the quarters. Goulding of Cork and Doyle of Kildare are serious contenders, but they are only two ahead of Marty. Regardless of any individuals, Down are heading to Croke Park as complete outsiders and under no pressure. As the team who lost last year's AI final by a point, and a mid-table division one side, it's not a bad position to be in.
Brolly: Cork 'primitive', Canty 'overrated'By Terry Reilly - Saturday, July 23, 2011
FORMER Derry star Joe Brolly has labelled Cork football as "primitive" and Graham Canty as "overrated".
The latest tirade from the RTÉ panellist added that the sole reason for the Rebels' All-Ireland success last year was their "crash, bang, wallop" approach.
"The video of Cork's All-Ireland year will soon be available in shops, welcome news for all lovers of rugby league," he wrote in his column in Gaelic Life.
"They have been able to bludgeon and bore their way through every team in the country with their primitive approach, but as we saw for the umpteenth time in the Munster final, the Kingdom are far too smart for them.
"I said last year they are a dumb team and I saw nothing against Kerry that might cause me to alter that assessment. Overwhelming domination of the middle third, ceaseless hard running at defences and two excellent free-takers have brought them an All-Ireland and make them very hard to beat.
"In Killarney, they floundered, but still managed to keep in touch, courtesy of hard running, frees and the virtually obligatory penalty. The over-rated Graham Canty was again shown up, by both Star and Declan O'Sullivan.
"Four points from play in the first half doesn't tell the whole story. "What do people see in Canty?" a Kerry man texted me at half-time. "I don't know" was my response.
"In fairness, Kerry people are very harsh judges of a footballer. Someone like Graham, whose strengths are his physique, athleticism and never-say-die attitude, underwhelms them. They have that in Kerry, but on top of that they have the skills. Graham does not. He has been described as a star in the hybrid Rules game and is always discussed as a great in the media. I don't see it."
Danger day for championsBy Dara Ó Cinneide - Saturday, July 23, 2011
MUCH like the Limerick game at this stage last year, this evening's All-Ireland Football Qualifier against Down is a dangerous curve ball to be thrown at Conor Counihan and his charges.
Cork will have spent the past three weeks digesting the lessons from the Munster final and will for the last two weeks geared themselves specifically for the challenge from the Mourne men. But because Down are one of the most instinctive football teams around these days, it makes them very hard to second guess. They are the ultimate hot and cold county and as such, we really don't know what to expect from them at Croke Park this evening. This game is fraught with danger for Cork and there are no real form-lines to study in Down's wins over Clare, Leitrim and Antrim.
Returning to the entrails of last year's final could be pointless. Games are often studied only when they start to go wrong. The end of things is the moment when people start to understand them: and only when they are understood do we begin to realise what has been lost. We know that much in Kerry from all the finals we've lost and I'm sure Down know it from their first ever All Ireland loss last year. That understanding comes too late for many because things move on and team dynamics change.
Very few teams get the opportunity that Down are getting this evening, however. After the depths of ten months ago, they are presented with a chance to soar once again against the All Ireland champions. This evening for Down is going to be about tradition, experience, audacity and adrenalin. It's quite a prospect.
Cork, in the business of rehabilitation after Killarney, are going to have to remind themselves of what made them champions last autumn against a team who appeared to have lost their mojo for much of this summer. Down, wrestling with issues of style and temperament since the end of May, are presented with a chance to settle up for last September. Throw in the added bonus of getting a game in Croke Park under their belts for whichever team advances to the All-Ireland quarter-final, and the picture becomes clear - the team that emerges from this scrap is going to have serious momentum heading into August weekend.
Midfield will be fascinating. It is widely accepted that this was the one area in which Down were obliterated against Cork last September and the breaking ball statistics (23-9 in favour of the Rebels) speaks volumes. Alan Quirke, whose short kick-outs were so heavily criticised in the aftermath of the Munster final is likely to change tack this time but to burden Quirke with all of Cork's midfield failings is misguided and unfair.
Quirke, I have no doubt carried out his instructions to the absolute limits of their possibilities against Kerry but he cannot be the scapegoat for some really poor distribution and decision making by Cork's numbers 5-9. Those same people who are criticising Quirke now are ignoring his contribution to the All-Ireland last September. The midfield problems Down experienced in the All-Ireland were as a direct result of Quirke out-thinking Down. We all knew beforehand that the Down midfielders were never going to be as good at getting clean ball as their Cork counterparts. But that hadn't been a problem to Down up to then as they were more than adequate at securing the breaking ball with Hughes and Poland hustling all year to pick up those breaks.
Ahead of the final Cork would've seen this and neutralised the Down tactic by splitting their midfield wide open. Instead of chipping the ball to a morass of bodies, with half-backs and half-forwards looking for scraps underneath, Cork asked both midfielders to play wide and create a huge space between them. This had the effect of isolating Kalum King on Aidan Walsh Walsh and Peter Fitzpatrick on Nicholas Murphy for the second half. Down couldn't swarm the catcher and Cork's superior aerial power won out. If Hughes and Poland went towards Walsh, Quirke would hit it to Murphy and vice versa. It was a simple ploy that Down couldn't counteract and Quirke's role in it was crucial.
Things have moved on and it is worth noting the difference in midfield personnel since last September. Down started against Antrim last week with former wing-back Declan Rooney partnering King at midfield and Fitzpatrick coming in off the bench for King late in the game. All of this while the best midfielder in the county (Ambrose Rodgers) is slowly getting back to championship fitness after injury and while the second best midfielder in the county (Dan Gordon) is fast becoming a really reliable inter-county full-back. Gordon's positioning is a classic catch-22 situation for the Down management. Do you sacrifice possession at midfield for stability at the back or do you go gung-ho to win midfield and hope that your lack of physicality at full back doesn't get exposed? What worked against Kerry and Kieran Donaghy in 2010 didn't work against Cork and Donncha O Connor in 2010 and mightn't necessarily work in 2011.
Because of injury, Cork haven't been able to call on Nicholas Murphy lately and his loss has been stultifying. Aidan Walsh's meteoric rise has shown signs of flat-lining with an under-par showing in the All Ireland U21 semi-final against Galway and a less than clever first half against Kerry at the start of the month. Cork's strength-in-depth at centrefield in 2010 was reflected in the manner in which five different players were used in the final. After half an hour on the field, Murphy was injured and replaced by Derek Kavanagh and within minutes he required a blood replacement, Fintan Goold. For different reasons, neither Kavanagh, Murphy nor Goold are available as out and out midfielders this time, leaving Alan O Connor as the only player with form in the area. The importance of a big performance from Aidan Walsh doesn't need further highlighting.
There are so many warning signs flashing ahead of this game for Cork that we have to assume they will have taken heed. They will know that the tackling by their forwards in the first half in Killarney simply wasn't good enough. They will know too that it shouldn't take their talisman, Graham Canty as long again to get under the skin of the game. The quality of their kick-passing will have to improve and their half backs will have to get back to bursting out of defence at pace rather than dithering and leaning into the tackler looking for frees as O Leary, Kissane and Miskella have been doing. Cork's best player, Michael Shields is wasted on marking duties (unless it's the Gooch in the corner) and what his team will gain in negating Coulter as he did in last year's final, they will lose in ambition and ability further out the field.
In the final analysis we must ask ourselves a few simple questions. Questions like, have Down any defender to track Paul Kerrigan's runs when the game opens up? Or have Down found anybody since this year's league encounter between the sides when Cork outscored the Ulster side 2-4 to 0-1 in the last 20 minutes and had no answer to Daniel Goulding as he ran riot in the first half with seven points from play and frees? Is Marty Clarke's influence as pronounced as it was this time last year? Are Down's new players blooded during league and qualifier games (Laverty, Mooney, McArdle and Brannigan) going to take Croke Park by storm or is Patrick Kelly going to have his influence diminished by a Down half-back as it was three weeks ago by Kerry? The answer to all the above questions is "no". This "no" affirms the existence of a borderline in the Rebels' season. They can and will push on.
http://www.thescore.ie/brolly-slams-primitive-cork-and-calls-canty-overrated-183849-Jul2011/
Brolly gives the Cork Team talk ...
QuoteX-DERRY FOOTBALLER Joe Brolly is not a Cork fan.
The Sunday Game pundit has launched an attack on the county's football team, saying that they were "able to bludgeon and bore their way through every team in the country with their primitive approach" last season.
The Rebels face Down in a repeat of last year's All-Ireland SFC final tomorrow.
But Brolly argues, in a provocative article for GaelicLife.com, that a DVD documenting last year's success will be great viewing "for all lovers of rugby league".
Despite winning the top prize, Brolly claims they are "a dumb team" and felt their loss to Kerry last month vindicated his persistent criticism of the side. He did offer Cork reserved praise, saying they "play with courage and integrity," but added that they are "not in the same league as Kerry".
He also called their captain, Graham Canty, "over-rated", and said he can't understand why he is considered a great player.
Kerry beat Cork 1-15 to 1-12 recently to win the Munster football final.
Dar O'C is just about best pundit out there now.
Kerry Mike, Where did you find that article published? I'm wondering becuase in the middle if it is an entire paragraph which is virtually a direct word for word quote from a post made on Hoganstand last week. Could you please point me in the direction of the original article? What newspaper or website did you see it on?
no doubt the kerry folk will be shouting for their neighbours this evening as they know they can beat them in croker. (Something they cant do to Down) UP DOWN
THIS IS IT good luck lads An Dun Abu
Our fitness will be put to the test today in that heat, might suit the smaller players like Conor and Paul if he gets a run.
Articles from the examiner . And no I won't lower myself and support cork. Heading for Jones rd in a while
Quote from: Kerry Mike on July 23, 2011, 01:43:33 PM
Articles from the examiner . And no I won't lower myself and support cork. Heading for Jones rd in a while
Good man Mike, I can't understand these Cork fellas supporting Kerry either, usually from West Cork. They look at ya like you've 2 heads if you're supporting Tyrone or Down against the animals.
KM,
Great to see you up so early on a Saturday morning and sharpening the knife for the neighbours. Kinda sticks in the craw to agree with Brolly ;)
tv3 does not begin web viewing until 6.30pm. Somebody should have told them the game begins at 6pm. I tried calling the station, might as well have tried calling the north pole. God I thought the were a step ahead of rte. Oh well its the radio and Brian Carty and that other rocket scientist for me.
Canty out big blow to Cork.
thanks for the info, would appreciate update until half-time anyway.
weather forecast is now on rte radio
4mins gone 2-2 not much defending in the opening mins.
Goal for Cork 1-3 to 0-2
thanks again
tv3 is up
Daniel Goulding off injured another bad blow for Cork.
Another goal for Cork 2-6 0-7 poor defending from Down.
Jaysus TV3 commentary is brutal... Going on about a "penal punishment"??? What the fook is that?
This ref is giving out yellow cards like they are going out of fashioin....
HT Cork 2-8 Down 0-9, big lead uphill task for the Down men in the 2nd half.
Excellent game to watch, some of the scoretaking is incredible. The ref has backed himself into a corner now though. Hard to see 30 men finishing the game with all those yellows handed out.
what an incredible game of great football. , how the hell could there be 6 yellows . Hope ref does not ff it up
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 23, 2011, 06:40:20 PM
Excellent game to watch, some of the scoretaking is incredible. The ref has backed himself into a corner now though. Hard to see 30 men finishing the game with all those yellows handed out.
Agreed, considering the cast of characters (officials), they will make a balls of it.
I hope the 2nd half is as entertaining as the first. Only 2 score for Down from frees?
Brutal commentary all right.
Some class football,but sure would need to be,conditions seem perfect,down could find themselves back in it very handy if get off to a good start
Jeez lads, did you see what tv3 were doing there with the stats and the frame around the action when they were analysing it? What the hell are they at! You could hardly see it. Trying to look too professional.
Also on another note, theres zero atmosphere at these games in croke park. Needs to be addressed.
The potential penalty for Cork? Did the Cork guy not just run into Gordan who seemed to just standing his ground? Frontal chage according to TV3.
Can't see the game, who is the ref
Quote from: mylestheslasher on July 23, 2011, 06:59:15 PM
Can't see the game, who is the ref
Michael Duffy Sligo. Correction Martin Duffy is doing the Tyrone v Armagh game.
tv3 .ie on blink,
Would appreciate score and time left as I took Cork over 21.5 pts
Thanks
Cork running away with it now double scores 10 ahead.
I have seen it all laverty leaves canty rolling around on ground after a shoulder
Marty off with 2 yellows, not good if it is his last game in the red and black :(
63 mins Cork 2-18 Down 0-13
Quote from: downgirl on July 23, 2011, 07:24:28 PM
63 mins Cork 2-18 Down 0-13
thanks
Down were a delight to watch in first half, would have liked to see the in q/f
FT Cork 2-20 Down 0-14 :'(
Bad beating for Down back to the drawing board i guess. 2-20 is some score for Cork.
Oh dear
The goals killed the game.
Cork are a real flat track bully kind of team if they get a run on you thats it.
They are pretty cynical now too . Different men getting yellow to get clarke red carded and big man Canty lying down after 5 foot 6 Lavertys challenge sums them up for me.
But that doesn't take away from how insipid Down were.
didn learn from last year at all!! cleaned out in middle third again!
Thought ref was like a car's indicator - flashing yellow everywhere.
2-20 to 0-14. Sounds like a hurling scoreline. No shame getting put out by Cork though.
Don't know where Down go from here especially with some of their best players heading to Australia.
is clarke def going??
Boys and girls, that's the f**king commentator we have on our local radio :-[. He's desperate.
Down were shite, what is up with the team selection? No harm to wee James but there were at least two too many Burren men on that starting line up.
Think too many of the star men didn't produce the goods tonight. Marty Clarke was non-existant and Benny like the rest of the team seemed to give up ten minutes into the second half, Cork's full forward line was on fire and the Down backs had their arses handed to them...but I suppose it comes back to the selections made for midfield...
Fair play to young Mooney for stripping out after his bereavement.
That was horrible today.
Cork are a fine team but not as good as they looked today. Almost every score was kicked without pressure.
Either James forgot that we've a weak defence or else the players just ignored him. Either way, the half back line were not even wretched, but completely AWOL.
Watching this game was like opening a door and watching Down 5 years ago. So disappointing.
Down did better at midfield in the first half than the AIF...check the stats.
The second half just became a mess around the middle. With the changes in personnel hard to pin on anyone.The wheels came off altogether around the middle when Mcardle and Hughes came off. The goals changed the game and Fitzpatricks failure to convert our goal chance early in second half was decisive. Heads dropped afterwards. Who would the critics have had on O'Connor and Kerrigan ...these were the two who really hurt us today.
was never o connors biggest fan, but in his two games against down he destroyed them. my opinion has changed, class player
Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.
As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.
It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.
If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.
Quote from: bridgegael on July 23, 2011, 10:17:32 PM
was never o connors biggest fan, but in his two games against down he destroyed them. my opinion has changed, class player
Yes O Connor ,Goulding and Kerrigan are top forwards that will really punish any team. Hard to see any team stopping Cork now after today
Quote from: johnpower on July 23, 2011, 10:41:38 PM
Quote from: bridgegael on July 23, 2011, 10:17:32 PM
was never o connors biggest fan, but in his two games against down he destroyed them. my opinion has changed, class player
Yes O Connor ,Goulding and Kerrigan are top forwards that will really punish any team. Hard to see any team stopping Cork now after today
Kerry have done it already this year!
Hard to see any team stopping Cork now after today....cough cough.
Just in from game. Very hard game to fathom, were Cork that good or Down that poor?.
Very similiar imo to last September except Cork today didn't squander their goal chances in the 1st half like last year. Basically, McCartan could have taken off his whole midfield and full and half back lines at half time they were so poor. Cork half back line ruled the roost also. If you were to pick the best 15 on the park today I can't see any Down lads making it.
Fair dues to the very big Down support at the game, they deserved better.
On the "point" that was/ never was that Cork got in 2nd half, I had a perfect view of it in the Hogan and it WAS a point. Replay was shown on the big screen and it suggestd clearly that it was wide (which it wasn't). Didn't matter a whit in this game, just pointing out that the tv cameras can be deceiving.
Cork looked unbeatable today, are they?
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 23, 2011, 10:40:18 PM
Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.
As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.
It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.
If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.
Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession
Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.
Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.
But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 23, 2011, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 23, 2011, 10:40:18 PM
Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.
As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.
It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.
If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.
Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession
Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.
Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.
But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.
Interesting view I assume you were at the game ? some of the Cork backs (Miskella O Leary Canty) are really good going forward but not the best man markers . I agree the Down backs had no hope given the way Cork could run at them .
Quote from: INDIANA on July 23, 2011, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 23, 2011, 10:40:18 PM
Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.
As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.
It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.
If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.
Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession
Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.
Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.
But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.
Fair points made there Indiana, in open play the defence didn't have a chance.
But there were times when a Cork Man was in about 20 yards of space, and who was it? Fintan Gould, or Paddy Kelly, or Paul Kerrigan - guys that you would expect to be marked tightly, no matter what was going on out the field.
Quote from: johnpower on July 23, 2011, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 23, 2011, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on July 23, 2011, 10:40:18 PM
Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.
As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.
It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.
If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.
Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession
Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.
Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.
But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.
Interesting view I assume you were at the game ? some of the Cork backs (Miskella O Leary Canty) are really good going forward but not the best man markers . I agree the Down backs had no hope given the way Cork could run at them .
If that is me you asking, johpower, no, I couldn't make the game tonight.
Agree with you there BBB, wouldn't be too keen myself to let the full back line off the hook. Regardless of the ball coming in, the space afforded the Cork full forward line was not acceptable. Imo of course.
Good man Kerry Mike, look forward to seeing you lot again, even if it is in Croker. I'll sleep sound in my bed knowing that both of us know well if that back line started in Killarney it would've been a different story.
With a bit of luck there's not much wrong with Goulding. D O Connor seems a different player since the AI final. Alan O Connor has turned into a monster. Kerrigan seems to have realised how best to use his speed. Cadogan is a colossus. Shame that's the last we'll see of M Clarke, fine player.
On TV3, how come they caught none of the numerous off the ball incidents? Clarke seemed a bit mystified going off. The box in the head didn't seem to do Noel any harm either.
I hate this "told you so" business
BUT .....
I told you the sacrificing of any decent chance at midfield by playing Gordon at full back was folly and boy did that come home to roost today.
I told you McKernan at CHB was a disaster and the only person listening was Conor Counihan who fully expoited that disaster today.
I told you McArdle's selection was laughable but nobody is laughing in An Dun now because the cost has been immense.
Is there a single player who at the end of the game was anywhere close to the position in which he started --- or the form of which he is capable? This was a shambles of Ross/DJ proportions.
I would still trust wee James on instinct but he has to get shot of that Tallyman and freshen up the selectors. Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.
To continue the theme ....... I told you we had gone backwards form last year - now do you believe me?
Honestly didn't realise Declan Rooney was playing until he got booked near the end. Management got it completely wrong today cost us the game.
leo, you know your stuff! a keyboard bullshitter if ever was one!
Quote from: bridgegael on July 24, 2011, 01:03:11 AM
leo, you know your stuff! a keyboard bullshitter if ever was one!
Well show me the bulshit and I will eat it.
In fifty years of following Down I have missed no more than a dozen matches. In 50 years I have never come home so angry.
wat is your gripe with tally?
Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.
Leo
I dont know what planet your on but if we get rid of coulter we might as well back the county hurlers!! I would like to what coulter done wrong?
I THINK EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM WILL AGREE THAT YOU SHOULD RETRACT THIS STATEMENT
Thats a disgraceful thing to say about one of the best players never to win an all reland from our county. When the ball got to him yesterday cork made sure at all times he was at least double marked if not trebled marked. He never give up
benny coulter has been downs best player for a decade and that above statement should be retracted. says alot about the poster concerned.
as for last nights game, i dont believe i ever came away from a match more disappointed (last years AI maybe excluded) we didnt seem to learn any lessons from last year. the way cork ran through the centre of our defence with ease was embaressing. not one single player was on top of his immediate opponent. cork seemed to have extra men all over the field and we just coulnt stem the tide coming towards our goal.
Quote from: Canalman on July 23, 2011, 11:24:01 PM
Agree with you there BBB, wouldn't be too keen myself to let the full back line off the hook. Regardless of the ball coming in, the space afforded the Cork full forward line was not acceptable. Imo of course.
Seriously try marking a top ranking corner forward in acres of space when the opposition have a monopoly of possession. I've tried it and it aint fun. If forty balls are kicked in - he'll get a few. You end up getting a pain in your bollox watching forwards standing around with their hands on their hips up the other end.
Its hard to understand why Down dont use a defensive screen because with an average enough backline they need one.
It's hard to analyse what happened yesterday without wanting to burst into tears. Also you could spend ages going through all the nuances and still have more things to say. So I think it's better to look at it in a broad simplistic view. Without wanting to make a big song and dance, football is a fairly simple game. Cork didn't win by breathtaking skills, they won by playing simple balls and the correct simple ball on far more occasions than us.
My view is that for a long time we were only 3-5 points behind. Why then did this suddenly become 7-10 points and an impossible task? I think it all comes down to our approach when we were that few points behind. I think we started to try to push the game and push too hard. What we should have done was remain calm, hold the ball, play the ball, move it simply and keep possession. When you are 3 points down it is more important to prevent yourself from going further behind than it is to close the gap. After the opposition has built up this lead, the first thing you have to do is take the momentum of them. It is not the end of the world to be 3-4 adrift with 25 minutes to go, holding the deficit at that level is not a big deal. Better to stop the opposition momentum and then slowly chip away at their lead. By trying so hard to hit back fast we played right in to their hands, they were able to intercept the less than perfect passes and exploit the open spaces our defence had left behind as they pushed forward.
But we chased the game, trying to get back at them. The thing is that they were able to defend in greater numbers precisely because they were 3-4 ahead, so naturally they found it easier to stop those fast risky balls into their defence. They then had more opportunities to come at us, they could increase their lead and the cycle continues. In this situation we should have simply retained possession, accepted we were a few behind but that we were not going to give them the ball back to do more damage. The opposition would have become frustrated and started taking bigger risks to regain the ball. This would result in frees, bookings and ultimately points. Most importantly they would have become rattled and frustrated.
I am sad that we showed such naivety. If we had been patient and calm we had more than enough skill and possession to recover, but we instead panicked took increasing risks and allowed ourselves to be sucker punched time and again. When things are going against you the first thing you do is stop the rot after that you can set about fixing the problem (and this applies to almost everything in life not just football).Basically an old adage is the important one, when things are not working, start concentrating on doing the simple things right.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I hate this "told you so" business
Oh STFU you clown, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I told you the sacrificing of any decent chance at midfield by playing Gordon at full back was folly and boy did that come home to roost today.
The midfield did better in the 1st half with DG at full back than it did the second.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I told you McKernan at CHB was a disaster and the only person listening was Conor Counihan who fully expoited that disaster today.
Who would you have played in there instead? Easy to criticise without declaring your own position so others can consider it.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I told you McArdle's selection was laughable but nobody is laughing in An Dun now because the cost has been immense.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I would still trust wee James on instinct but he has to get shot of that Tallyman and freshen up the selectors. Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.
So you name three guys that have been or are injured this year as an example of what you'd do different next year?
Idiot. Idiot. Idiot.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
To continue the theme ....... I told you we had gone backwards form last year - now do you believe me?
Missing one of the best midfielders in the country? With injuries to other key defenders? Hardly surprising, and there wasn't many here saying we had went forward from last year was there?
[Sorry admin, but this pish from a know-it-all has pissed me off.]
It took this cork team 5 or 6 years to get to the level that they are currently at. In that time they have suffered numerous crushing defeats usually at the hands of kerry. But they have stuck at it, introduced some younger players and are now reaping the rewards. We have made massive progress with James over the last 3 years, we are a division 1 team and won all our home games this year. There is room for improvement of course, but I still feel we are heading in the right direction and I feel James will learn an awful lot from yesterday, in the same way cork have and in the same way Jack O'Connor did after Tyrone give Kerry a few hidings.
Quote from: Leo on July 24, 2011, 12:46:05 AM
I hate this "told you so" business
BUT .....
I told you the sacrificing of any decent chance at midfield by playing Gordon at full back was folly and boy did that come home to roost today.
I told you McKernan at CHB was a disaster and the only person listening was Conor Counihan who fully expoited that disaster today.
I told you McArdle's selection was laughable but nobody is laughing in An Dun now because the cost has been immense.
Is there a single player who at the end of the game was anywhere close to the position in which he started --- or the form of which he is capable? This was a shambles of Ross/DJ proportions.
I would still trust wee James on instinct but he has to get shot of that Tallyman and freshen up the selectors. Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.
To continue the theme ....... I told you we had gone backwards form last year - now do you believe me?
Leo I think your entire post shows displays what is known as " confirmation bias". See below ::)
QuoteConfirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.[Note 1][1] As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.
Leo although being very harsh in general in his post still makes a few observations that personally I think are spot on.
Anton McArdle is not good enough to be anywhere near the County Panel, never mind the Down team. As soon as I seen the team James had opted for yesterday I was worried as he is far too loyal to some but not others??
Declan Rooney is having a terrible year & yet seems to remain an automatic selection. The Burren bias is obvious to everyone but James it seems & its causing apparent rifts in the camp.
Paul Murphy walked off the panel & can you really blame fellas like him? Play brilliant for their Clubs & yet when they are called up are playing second fiddle to mediocre Club players.
Sephen Kearney is another.
Cork simply blew Down away & Downs tactic of having roaming half backs who defend by going forward cost them big style. Miskella, Kissane, Kelly, Goold & O'Neill can all attack but they also are very good defensively in protecting their lead & forcing teams to try wonder passes to get scores.
Benny is Downs best player by a Country mile. Anyone who argues differently is an idiot. He has shown time & time again that if you give him quality ball & have good players around him he can give any defender in the Country a roasting.
Marty Clarke has been overhyped & last year was already starting to live on his name more than his performances. He is a fantastic footballer. But not the player some of us would hype him up to be. Peter Canavan hit the nail on the head when he said Clarke was a lesson to young guys who think they can got to Oz, come back & be a superstar.
Down have had another progressive year under James & if honest all supporters wouldve bitten your hand off if they were told we would be at this stage at the start of James stewardship. But in saying that he needs to start & picking players based on their ability & form, not on what Club they come from or their name.
In my opinion the criticism of Anton McArdle is based on posters perceptions of him as a footballer before yesterday. This is evident from comments like he should "never be near the panel "or "that is was going to be a disaster" . The stats show Down did better in the first half of the game at midfield than last year - McArdle understandably looked green in possession but did his primary job of stopping Cork winning clean ball well.
Paul Murphy had his chance against Clare .
Yesterday was a very disapointing day for Down and it just shows just how far we are from winning an all ireland. Our midfield has been a shambles since Ambrose got injured last year and the management have not learnt from the all ireland final. They persisted with King who has been second best in each and every game this year while the selection of Anton McArdle is a complete joke.
No wonder better footballers and midfielders like Kearney, Murphy and Colgan walked away. These lads have got a raw deal.
Mark Poland is third choice free taker in Longstone, and he continues to hit them for Down and hits them poorly. Surely there is a better more consistent free taker about, at county level you cant miss so many, and it happens all too often.
Our defence is poor and has not improved as a unit this term. Its obvious we need to play a sweeper to cover our weakness.
Next season changes will have to be made, the Burren bias will have to be left aside in terms of panel selection. Lads like Aidan Carr, Paul McComiskey, Benny McArdle, Ronan Murtagh and James Colgan surely deserve to be treated better.
In terms of physical fittnes i dont think Tally has the lads in the best shape, in comparison to the Cork lads they are miles behind. A change here may do no harm, Harte got rid of him and Tyrone improved and went on to win 2 all irelands with a new trainer at the helm. A new selector would do no harm either imo, someone who will fairly assess club footballers and give guys a go on merit. McIver needs to take a more hands on role on match days, id much rather see him with James on the sidelines.
Quote from: bcarrier on July 24, 2011, 02:57:27 PM
In my opinion the criticism of Anton McArdle is based on posters perceptions of him as a footballer before yesterday. This is evident from comments like he should "never be near the panel "or "that is was going to be a disaster" . The stats show Down did better in the first half of the game at midfield than last year - McArdle understandably looked green in possession but did his primary job of stopping Cork winning clean ball well.
Paul Murphy had his chance against Clare .
Yeah twelve minutes. He didnt get into it, but didnt get much time. If King and McArdle where assessed the same then they wouldnt have lasted in too many games.
totally agree about tally. the down lads dont seem to be as fit as they should be at this level. down faded badly in the 2nd half of alot of games this year most notably against armagh, clare and cork and also in alot of the league games.
james mc cartan has taken down forward alot in the last 2 years but lessons from yesterday have to be learned if we are to move forward again.
Quote from: SHEEDY on July 24, 2011, 03:30:10 PM
totally agree about tally. the down lads dont seem to be as fit as they should be at this level. down faded badly in the 2nd half of alot of games this year most notably against armagh, clare and cork and also in alot of the league games.
james mc cartan has taken down forward alot in the last 2 years but lessons from yesterday have to be learned if we are to move forward again.
Jesus lads would you stop - youse were steamrolled by the current and perhaps this year's all irleand champions - yesterday's defeat wasn't down to lack of fitness - far from it - your defence conceded 2-20 - that's the problem. The Down forwards managed 14 points which is not a bad return against a great side like Cork. Kerry scraped past them in Kilarney this year scoring 1-15, two more scores than your attack managed yesterday and the Kerry forwards are THE BEST in the business.
Tally didn't leave Tyrone because they weren't fit, so don't be reading anything into that. There's a lot of teams who would take your arm off for a physical trainer like Tally - and you're talking about getting rid of him ?? Unreal. It's so unreal it's laughable. If I was a Down man today, I'd be focussed on one thing - how do you get the defence tightened up for next year ?.
Marty Clarke was so disappointing yesterday. Should have been sent off in the first few minutes for striking after Noel O'Leary getting under his skin again. I was expecting more from Marty since his return from Oz.
If all of the defenders did what Rooney did yesterday we may have won. I think O'Neill scored 1 point, Rooney may not have been on the ball alot but neither was his man, he simply concentrated on taking his man out of the game which he did quite successfully. Too many of our defenders prefer to look good on the ball and move up the field and kick great points whilst at the other end his man kicks 3 more.
I thought McArdle did a reasonable job on Walsh in the first half, certainly alot better than the job that was done in the all ireland final last year. In fact I thought he more than broke even. He is very green but he has the size, strength and "cut"to make given a bit of time. King just couldnt get near his man and was out of puff after 20 mins. He gives his all but that may not be enough.
On the game itself, apart from 2 goals that u would see conceded at an under 12 match i thought we matched them in the first half. I was taught at a young age to always markigoal side and mccartan was badly caught out on this for the first goal. Brannigan was badly caught going for a ball that he didnt need to go for for the 2nd goal but it still could have been stopped after that.
The game was over a half time even thought we started brightly in the 2nd half. We started to panick and lost our shape and Cork simply moved up a gear to a level that we couldnt match. We arent as far away as the scoreline suggests but we are clearly along way from the top 2. We are a decent side but we need to find bigger,stronger players if we are going to get any better. As the old saying goes a good big man will always beat a good wee man and that was certainly the case yesterday.
Oh and we need to move on and forget about coulter and clarke :D
I've been saying for ages that Clarke is totally overhyped.
To think people were comparing him to Greg Blaney and Trevor Giles.
Was it not the press that were doing that?
He is a good player but not a great player and certainly not at the level as the 2 mentioned. He is however young and will improve if he sticks at it and gets his head right. In saying that he has improved the Down team and would be a big miss if he goes.
Will be interesting if anything comes out now about his return to Oz as nothing concrete has been reported yet.
Quote from: ardtole on July 24, 2011, 12:20:26 PM
It took this cork team 5 or 6 years to get to the level that they are currently at. In that time they have suffered numerous crushing defeats usually at the hands of kerry. But they have stuck at it, introduced some younger players and are now reaping the rewards. We have made massive progress with James over the last 3 years, we are a division 1 team and won all our home games this year. There is room for improvement of course, but I still feel we are heading in the right direction and I feel James will learn an awful lot from yesterday, in the same way cork have and in the same way Jack O'Connor did after Tyrone give Kerry a few hidings.
I can remember Fermanagh giving them a lesson in 2003/2004 as well.Since then they have really got their system and structures in place. Theres a lesson there for all teams Id say.
Yesterday was a bitterly disappointing day, made worse by watching the game abroad, but we probably should have seen it coming. While we were entitled to believe that losing the AI final by a point and having a decent season in division one would bring us on, a combination of factors - some well documented and others below the surface - sent us in the other direction . The Armagh match told us we were not where we should be, and our form in the qualifiers was at best patchy. Cork, in contrast, have improved considerably, but we should still have been capable of putting up a more respectable showing in defeat.
Individual errors cost us dearly, our tactics were dubious and the team selection made little sense. It was still a real surprise to see Gerard McCartan so badly caught out for the first goal, but the second was the type of score we have been conceding all season. While Brannigan did well against Antrim, his display yesterday was in line with the Leitrim performance and many of his league games. Rooney has also been out of sorts, as was obvious again. It's all very well calling for Dan to switch back to midfield, but we need to identify an alternative full back before making the change. McKernan is a fine footballer but he regularly leaves gaps at the back.
McArdle may become a county midfielder but he is probably a year away from that level, while sadly King's lack of mobility counted against him again.
Marty was a shadow of the player he can be, Poland had a very mixed day and it seemed as though Maginn and Hughes were struggling for fitness.
We have much to consider, but we at least are still in division one. Unfortunately, there are very few other positives around at the moment.
Coulter, Hughes. Maginn, Ambrose all played injured, Doyle, Rafferty, Murtagh and Dan McCartan not fit to play at all. We are losing Marty but the question is even after his loss if these players can be brought back to fitness will be in a stronger position? I think we will be.
Even the loss of Marty will not be that massive. Don't get me wrong, he is a superb player but I feel last year when he was a surprise package he was devastating. This year he has been man-marked and fairly much nullified in big games. The problem is that we structured a game to flow through him and that has made our attack predictable, we were pretty much tied to one way of playing. Which why against every top quality side we have failed to get more than 16 points.
Next year the responsibilities will be spread more evenly, we still have quality all over the forward line. It looks bleak now, but as someone said Cork took several years to finally get it right. In addition despite the loss of Mooney, we have good prospects coming through and our youth development is being overseen by Pete McGrath.
Let's be grateful for what we have, we have been returned to first division football, we are a top 12 team, we have lots of talent, the current team has brought us many good days. Unfortunately we may not win another All-Ireland with this current generation but I believe we will have many good days to enjoy. I would love to have the big one but even if it doesn't come as a supporter I will enjoy every good day. And with this team and management we have had and will have plenty
Its very early to be looking ahead to next year but I would think that the main position that james and co ( assuming they stay on ) is no longer FB, more CHB.
McKernan is too open and too lose. Id actually like to see him go to wing half foward as he one of few of our players who can shoot from distance, he has the energy to get up and down the line and he can pass the ball.
IMO Doyle is very like McKernan in that he is a ball playing CHB with passing ability and great going forward but can struggle to man mark and maintain the position. Whether he has the legs for the position is also questionable.
Rooney played his best football for his county in his first year under Ross at CHB. Has the strength and mobility to play the position, can pass, can man mark but questionable whether he has the concentration levels to play the position.
Garvey would be my choice. Strong, hard, ruthless and he certainly wouldnt let play go straight through the middle of the defence. He is our best defender and is more comfortable in the half back line than the full back line as yesterday suggested.
Maybe over the coming club championship there will be other options that come forward which are not so clear at the minute but it is certainly a position that we would need to get right if we are to move forward.
Anyone know what happened for Clarkes second yellow?? Because Coulter & Poland seemed to be going mad with the Cork players over it?
Not that it makes any difference, but I'm convinced Down's last point, where the lad blazed high with just the keeper to beat, was wide. Checked it a few times on the SKY+ pause button (yes, I am that sad).
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 25, 2011, 01:47:15 AM
Not that it makes any difference, but I'm convinced Down's last point, where the lad blazed high with just the keeper to beat, was wide. Checked it a few times on the SKY+ pause button (yes, I am that sad).
Thought that as well when watching it before the q-final draw yesterday evening. Seemed clearly wide, but I didn't rewind it to check again.
Quote from: whitegoodman on July 24, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
Its very early to be looking ahead to next year but I would think that the main position that james and co ( assuming they stay on ) is no longer FB, more CHB.
McKernan is too open and too lose. Id actually like to see him go to wing half foward as he one of few of our players who can shoot from distance, he has the energy to get up and down the line and he can pass the ball.
IMO Doyle is very like McKernan in that he is a ball playing CHB with passing ability and great going forward but can struggle to man mark and maintain the position. Whether he has the legs for the position is also questionable.
Rooney played his best football for his county in his first year under Ross at CHB. Has the strength and mobility to play the position, can pass, can man mark but questionable whether he has the concentration levels to play the position.
Garvey would be my choice. Strong, hard, ruthless and he certainly wouldnt let play go straight through the middle of the defence. He is our best defender and is more comfortable in the half back line than the full back line as yesterday suggested.
Maybe over the coming club championship there will be other options that come forward which are not so clear at the minute but it is certainly a position that we would need to get right if we are to move forward.
Wouldnt argue with that WGM ...didnt Garvey pick up Declan O'Sullivan for most of the Kerry game last year ? I suppose the other option might be to play Dan there ( when not facing a star/ murphy type ff) but maybe that is just creating a set of new problems. We badly need to find man markers in fashion of O'Leary/Cadogan. I dont particularly like to see the game played with that level of niggle but it seems to be part of it now . Rooney is the only Down player who plays that close to the edge.
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 24, 2011, 03:08:25 PM
Yesterday was a very disapointing day for Down and it just shows just how far we are from winning an all ireland. Our midfield has been a shambles since Ambrose got injured last year and the management have not learnt from the all ireland final. They persisted with King who has been second best in each and every game this year while the selection of Anton McArdle is a complete joke.
No wonder better footballers and midfielders like Kearney, Murphy and Colgan walked away. These lads have got a raw deal.
Mark Poland is third choice free taker in Longstone, and he continues to hit them for Down and hits them poorly. Surely there is a better more consistent free taker about, at county level you cant miss so many, and it happens all too often.
Our defence is poor and has not improved as a unit this term. Its obvious we need to play a sweeper to cover our weakness.
Next season changes will have to be made, the Burren bias will have to be left aside in terms of panel selection. Lads like Aidan Carr, Paul McComiskey, Benny McArdle, Ronan Murtagh and James Colgan surely deserve to be treated better.
In terms of physical fittnes i dont think Tally has the lads in the best shape, in comparison to the Cork lads they are miles behind. A change here may do no harm, Harte got rid of him and Tyrone improved and went on to win 2 all irelands with a new trainer at the helm. A new selector would do no harm either imo, someone who will fairly assess club footballers and give guys a go on merit. McIver needs to take a more hands on role on match days, id much rather see him with James on the sidelines.
Be careful what you wish for.
Wit reference to the physical fitness of the Cork team they are well ahead of most teams bar possibly Dublin and Kildare. I don't think Harte got rid of Tallly due to his capability as a trainer/coach and many within Tyrone would suggest it was the frequent run of games in 2005 and 2008 that brought Tyrone up to speed in those years rather than the training regime.
If you do enough finger pointing you'll always find a new angle.
Two things everyone should consider:
1. This is a Cork team of freaky natural athleticism. Anyone who doubts this should look at the National League final, when they simply ran over the top of Dublin for the final 20 minutes - and that's a naturally athletic Dublin team to boot. Cork don't finish every game stronger than their opponents because of their training regime, but because they're naturally fitter.
2. One third of the Down team (McCartan, Garvey, Maginn, Hughes and Coulter) have had injury-ravaged seasons. The majority of the squad players who really could push them for a starting place (Doyle, Murtagh, D McCartan, Rafferty, Rogers) have had injury-ravaged seasons. I didn't agree with some of the team selection the other day, but dipping past the first 22-23 players against the AI champions, to make sure that everyone on the pitch was flying fit, would surely only have produced a similar result.
Meanwhile, Barry O'Driscoll is also out, having sustained a fractured jaw in Saturday's victory over Down
Fractured jaw and no free ???
Barry O'Driscoll got crunched with a full frontal challenge - no free - there was a free later on for Dan Gordon pulling on the ball on the ground.
The lad came steaming through and he got clobbered with a shoulder. Did u want Garvey to move out of the road and let him through?
Garvey stood with the left shoulder out and ur man ran straight into him. Not a bit of malice or dirt in it imo. Not a free imo either. Not that it mattered a jot anyway!!!
Quote from: whitegoodman on July 26, 2011, 01:10:55 PM
The lad came steaming through and he got clobbered with a shoulder. Did u want Garvey to move out of the road and let him through?
Garvey stood with the left shoulder out and ur man ran straight into him. Not a bit of malice or dirt in it imo. Not a free imo either. Not that it mattered a jot anyway!!!
Seriously no free ?. I'm not saying there was any malice in it.
Like the tackle by Neil Mc Gee on Mc Guckin in the sqaure in the ulster final, that was no free either in the eyes of the ref. I wonder had Garvey's "shoulder" had been out the field a bit, would the ref have been more inclined to give a free as a free in the sqaure was going to be a penalty. Same with Mc Gee's "shoulder". ;)
It is possible for people to get injured as a result of a fair challenge you know.
Sure didn't Peter Canavan hurt his ankle when John McDermott hit him a shoulder in '96.
Having said that, Garveys was a frontal charge and a stonewall penalty.
Can some one please tell me what garvey was ment to do when o'driscoll came storming towards him?? F**k some people talk alot of balls on this site
Quote from: Jinxy on July 26, 2011, 05:20:29 PM
It is possible for people to get injured as a result of a fair challenge you know.
Sure didn't Peter Canavan hurt his ankle when John McDermott hit him a shoulder in '96.
Having said that, Garveys was a frontal charge and a stonewall penalty.
Define frontal charge for me if you would.
Is it when someone stands his ground and puts out his left shoulder or alternatively is it when someone runs at pace straight towards an opposition player?
Garvey both moved towards the player and shoulderd him to the chest, that's a plenalty. I would say what McGee did in the Derry game was more a case of a player protecting himself against an imminent collision rather than a frontal charge. However both were penalties IMO.
Down were very physical, there were an awful lot of these high slaps on cork players as they were going past their men.
Cadogan, Walsh and o' Leary got punched off the ball, Cadogan had to go to hospital for suspected broken rib. And O' Driscoil was shouldered in the face in a blatant penalty but was completely bottled by Duffy.