An Dun v Corcaigh, Saturday 23rd July

[BarryBreensBandage]

Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.

As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.

It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.

If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.

Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession

Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.

Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.

But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.

Fair points made there Indiana, in open play the defence didn't have a chance.
But there were times when a Cork Man was in about 20 yards of space, and who was it? Fintan Gould, or Paddy Kelly, or Paul Kerrigan - guys that you would expect to be marked tightly, no matter what was going on out the field.

[BarryBreensBandage]

Again the basics were missing - poor handling, passing and scoring, signs of a team short on confidence.
Where that blame is pinned, take your pick.

As far as O'Connor and Kerrigan are concerned, the basic skill of man marking was completely lacking.
You can only blame the midfield and the quality of ball coming in so much.

It was evident at the start of the second half that Cork assessed their injuries and available men, looked at who their danger men were and made up their mind that the whole team would work to get the ball to O'Connor, Kerrigan and Gould to win the game.

If Down had have done the same, the result would have been different.
How many plays were worked so that Laverty or Coulter had a scoring chance within 30 yards of the goals?
Felt sorry for Laverty tonight - I counted two passes to him all match.

Cant agree. On a pitch the size of Croke Park the best corner backs in the history of the game would have struggled tonight such was Corks dominance around the middle. No pressure on the Cork backs kicking the ball in either. They had a monopoly on posession

Overall the lack of work-rate when Cork had the ball especially up front was appalling.

Donw have no defensive screen. Neither do Cork but Down arent as good as Cork so it made no sense.

But I felt sorry for the Down backs tonight. the rest of the team hung them out to dry I thought.

Interesting view I assume you were at the game ? some of the Cork backs (Miskella O Leary Canty) are really good going forward but not the best man markers . I agree the Down backs had no hope given the way Cork could run at them .

If that is me you asking, johpower, no, I couldn't make the game tonight.

[Canalman]

Agree with you there BBB, wouldn't be too keen myself to let the full back line off the hook. Regardless of the ball coming in, the space afforded the Cork full forward line was not acceptable. Imo of course.

[stevetharlear]

Good man Kerry Mike, look forward to seeing you lot again, even if it is in Croker. I'll sleep sound in my bed knowing that both of us know well if that back line started in Killarney it would've been a different story.
With a bit of luck there's not much wrong with Goulding. D O Connor seems a different player since the AI final. Alan O Connor has turned into a monster. Kerrigan seems to have realised how best to use his speed. Cadogan is a colossus. Shame that's the last we'll see of M Clarke, fine player.
On TV3, how come they caught none of the numerous off the ball incidents? Clarke seemed a bit mystified going off. The box in the head didn't seem to do Noel any harm either.

[Leo]

I hate this "told you so" business

BUT .....

I told you the sacrificing of any decent chance at midfield by playing Gordon at full back was folly and boy did that come home to roost today.

I told you McKernan at CHB was a disaster and the only person listening was Conor Counihan who fully expoited that disaster today.

I told you McArdle's selection was laughable but nobody is laughing in An Dun now because the cost has been immense.

Is there a single player who at the end of the game was anywhere close to the position in which he started --- or the form of which he is capable? This was a shambles of Ross/DJ proportions.

I would still trust wee James on instinct but he has to get shot of that Tallyman and freshen up the selectors. Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.

To continue the theme ....... I told you we had gone backwards form last year - now do you believe me?

[Mike Tyson]

Honestly didn't realise Declan Rooney was playing until he got booked near the end. Management got it completely wrong today cost us the game.

[bridgegael]

leo,  you know your stuff!   a keyboard bullshitter if ever was one!

[Leo]

leo,  you know your stuff!   a keyboard bullshitter if ever was one!

Well show me the bulshit and I will  eat it.
In fifty years of following Down  I have missed no more than a dozen matches. In 50 years I have never come home so angry.

[bridgegael]

wat is your gripe with tally?

[here comes 6]

Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.

Leo
I dont know what planet your on but if we get rid of coulter we might as well back the county hurlers!!  I would like to what coulter done wrong?


I THINK EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM WILL AGREE THAT YOU SHOULD RETRACT THIS STATEMENT

Thats a disgraceful thing to say about one of the best players never to win an all reland from our county. When the ball got to him yesterday cork made sure at all times he was at least double marked if not trebled marked.  He never give up

[Sheedy]

benny coulter has been downs best player for a decade and that above statement should be retracted. says alot about the poster concerned.

as for last nights game, i dont believe i ever came away from a match more disappointed (last years AI maybe excluded) we didnt seem to learn any lessons from last year. the way cork ran through the centre of our defence with ease was embaressing. not one single player was on top of his immediate opponent. cork seemed to have extra men all over the field and we just coulnt stem the tide coming towards our goal.

[INDIANA]

Agree with you there BBB, wouldn't be too keen myself to let the full back line off the hook. Regardless of the ball coming in, the space afforded the Cork full forward line was not acceptable. Imo of course.

Seriously try marking a top ranking corner forward in acres of space when the opposition have a monopoly of possession. I've tried it and it aint fun. If forty balls are kicked in - he'll get a few.  You end up getting a pain in your bollox watching forwards standing around with their hands on their hips up the other end.

Its hard to understand why Down dont use a defensive screen because with an average enough backline they need one.

[PAULD123]

It's hard to analyse what happened yesterday without wanting to burst into tears. Also you could spend ages going through all the nuances and still have more things to say. So I think it's better to look at it in a broad simplistic view. Without wanting to make  a big song and dance, football is a fairly simple game. Cork didn't win by breathtaking skills, they won by playing simple balls and the correct simple ball on far more occasions than us.

My view is that for a long time we were only 3-5 points behind. Why then did this suddenly become 7-10 points and an impossible task? I think it all comes down to our approach when we were that few points behind. I think we started to try to push the game and push too hard. What we should have done was remain calm, hold the ball, play the ball, move it simply and keep possession. When you are 3 points down it is more important to prevent yourself from going further behind than it is to close the gap. After the opposition has built up this lead, the first thing you have to do is take the momentum of them. It is not the end of the world to be 3-4 adrift with 25 minutes to go, holding the deficit at that level is not a big deal. Better to stop the opposition momentum and then slowly chip away at their lead. By trying so hard to hit back fast we played right in to their hands, they were able to intercept the less than perfect passes and exploit the open spaces our defence had left behind as they pushed forward.

But we chased the game, trying to get back at them. The thing is that they were able to defend in greater numbers precisely because they were 3-4 ahead, so naturally they found it easier to stop those fast risky balls into their defence. They then had more opportunities to come at us, they could increase their lead and the cycle continues. In this situation we should have simply retained possession, accepted we were a few behind but that we were not going to give them the ball back to do more damage. The opposition would have become frustrated and started taking bigger risks to regain the ball. This would result in frees, bookings and ultimately points. Most importantly they would have become rattled and frustrated.

I am sad that we showed such naivety. If we had been patient and calm we had more than enough skill and possession to recover, but we instead panicked took increasing risks and allowed ourselves to be sucker punched time and again. When things are going against you the first thing you do is stop the rot after that you can set about fixing the problem (and this applies to almost everything in life not just football).Basically an old adage is the important one, when things are not working, start concentrating on doing the simple things right.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I hate this "told you so" business

Oh STFU you clown, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I told you the sacrificing of any decent chance at midfield by playing Gordon at full back was folly and boy did that come home to roost today.

The midfield did better in the 1st half with DG at full back than it did the second.

I told you McKernan at CHB was a disaster and the only person listening was Conor Counihan who fully expoited that disaster today.

Who would you have played in there instead? Easy to criticise without declaring your own position so others can consider it.

I told you McArdle's selection was laughable but nobody is laughing in An Dun now because the cost has been immense.

I would still trust wee James on instinct but he has to get shot of that Tallyman and freshen up the selectors. Time to plan without Benny & Clarke and set our sights on a purposeful attack on Ulster next year with the likes of seniors such as Doyle, Ambrose & Raff back on board and supporting the younger talent the county is still producing.

So you name three guys that have been or are injured this year as an example of what you'd do different next year?

Idiot. Idiot. Idiot.

To continue the theme ....... I told you we had gone backwards form last year - now do you believe me?

Missing one of the best midfielders in the country? With injuries to other key defenders? Hardly surprising, and there wasn't many here saying we had went forward from last year was there?




[Sorry admin, but this pish from a know-it-all has pissed me off.]

[ardtole]

It took this cork team 5 or 6 years to get to the level that they are currently at. In that time they have suffered numerous crushing defeats usually at the hands of kerry. But they have stuck at it, introduced some younger players and are now reaping the rewards. We have made massive progress with James over the last 3 years, we are a division 1 team and won all our home games this year. There is room for improvement of course, but I still feel we are heading in the right direction and I feel James will learn an awful lot from yesterday, in the same way cork have and in the same way Jack O'Connor did after Tyrone give Kerry a few hidings.