The US policing crisis thread

[whitey]

Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law.

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point...

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.

Sure, you're a white guy who doesn't automatically elicit suspicion and fear on the part of the cops and gets the benefit of the doubt.

But its easy to single out Freddie Gray (although one is forced to wonder if you ever smoked a joint in your youth in Ireland, or done anything that involved illegal trade of some kind).

What about Eric Garner who was selling single smokes? The black guy in Walmart who was murdered for looking at an airgun. Or any of the numerous other black people murdered by cops whose cases have come to light over the past year thanks to mobile phones? 

Didn't need drugs - I had other healthy pursuits. Football being the main one.
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

and Eric Garner wasn't earning a living selling single cigarettes. Do you actually believe that?

He was selling single cigarettes on the day they killed him. It's why the wanted to arrest him that day.

And sorry, but if you grew up getting harassed by cops only because of your skin colour, such as under  "stop and frisk" programmes ,  you probably  would have a few choice words for them too. Would not mean you deserved summary execution.

And spare us the sanctimony. I'm fuckin certain  you've broken a few rules in your time, just like everyone  else, whether that is traffic laws or tax laws or doing something  stupid when drunk. Difference  is when you are black in America, you are far more likely  to pay a heavy price for your mistake.

J70. I assume you do know that the 4 officers facing the most serious charges in the Freddie Gray death are African Americans.  And that the  "supervising officer" in the Garner case was also an African American

I'm not saying that these 2 individuals weren't done wrong, I'm saying that it's lazy and uninformed to start yelling rascism every time someone dies at the hands of the police

[J70]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

[J70]

You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.

You'd have to suspect  the likes of Foxcommander aren't even Irish, such is their complete cluelessness when it comes to topics like this which strike so close to home.

and if I wasn't - does that mean that you're a xenophobe?

Then again I might be asian. That would make you a racist

CALL THE PC POLICE - plenty on here to pick from...

As with your deliberate missing of the point yesterday, another transparent  attempt at distraction.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really  are thick as a plank:

My point is that you appear to have zero understanding of what black people go through, despite the fact that our fellow Gaels in the north experienced similar abuse at the hands of the state and the Unionist population  for decades. And you go further back into the history  if the island as a whole for similar.

Hence my wondering if your background is indeed Irish (I guess I'd assumed everyone on this GAA website was).

[whitey]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

[gallsman]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

[whitey]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

[J70]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

[J70]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

Its called internalized racism.

[easytiger95]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

[whitey]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8

[whitey]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

[J70]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8

Ok, but I don't think anyone would argue that EVERY incident is evidence  of racist attitudes. And I'm sure that some get falsely  flagged. And I'm sure that some people try to use it to their advantage to try to get off the hook. And teenagers being what they are everywhere  I am positive  that some give attitude to cops and tell them they're filming them to try to pressure  them. But long standing problems clearly exist that need to be dealt with, for the sake of both sides. The thing with all these phone  films, allied to the increasing footage from body ad dash cameras,  is that a lot of these cases now have clear footage to help clear things up.

[J70]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

[whitey]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8

Ok, but I don't think anyone would argue that EVERY incident is evidence  of racist attitudes. And I'm sure that some get falsely  flagged. And I'm sure that some people try to use it to their advantage to try to get off the hook. And teenagers being what they are everywhere  I am positive  that some give attitude to cops and tell them they're filming them to try to pressure  them. But long standing problems clearly exist that need to be dealt with, for the sake of both sides. The thing with all these phone  films, allied to the increasing footage from body ad dash cameras,  is that a lot of these cases now have clear footage to help clear things up.

Correct....a reasonable person wouldn't say that EVERY incident is motivated by race, but the actions of many in the BLM movement makes me believe they're not reasonable people

Can you imagine protesting the shooting of that murderous sc**bag, when the video clip I shared has been all over the evening news

[trueblue1234]

Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.