Well lads, seeing as how NFL division 2 has it's own thread, and each Division 1 match will probably get a thread, How about we stick Division 4 topics in here. What are the thoughts of fans of Kilkenny, Tipperary, Wicklow, Antrim, Offaly, London, Clare, Carlow and Waterford.
It's hard to look past Offaly to win this division, especially if they play close to their potential, but all too often they have failed to do just that. Micko will be keen to make sure Wicklow get promoted, while Carlow showed a bit of form against the Dubs. Clare, Antrim, Tipperary, London and Waterford will be no pushovers, especially in their home matches, and you could well see a few surprising results and close games.
Week 1 is next Suday Week.
Freshford : Kilkenny v Tipperary
Aughrim : Wicklow v Antrim (repeat of the Tommy Murphy Cup final)
Tullamore : Offaly v London
Ennis : Clare v Carlow
Bye for Waterford.
Good to see Kilkenny in the league.
Yes, it is good to see them there. Hopefully they will play a full part, and be competitive. As long as they don't beat Offaly I'm happy enough, and believe me, nothing would surprise me with Offaly :D
Cant see past Offaly for this div.
Gonna stick my neck out and say Antrim to claim second spot.
The draw hasn't been especially kind to Offaly in terms of home and away games. Ideally you would like your harder games at home, and the supposedly easier ones away. Offaly, in contrast, have London, Kilkenny, Waterford and Tipperary at home. No disrespect to any of those teams, but I think the hardest 4 games for Offaly, namely Carlow, Wicklow, Antrim and Clare are all away. That could yet scupper Offaly for winning this division, although if they aren't good enough to win those games away from home, they don't deserve promotion anyway.
I think Clare and Carlow could be the surprise packets of this league the winner of their game next weekend could go close to winning it. They have both been doing a lot of work already and this might get them off to a good start. Tipp and Waterford will struggle I'd say, not sure about Antrim and Wicklow, Kilkenny and London will be cannon fodder.
Kilkenny played us in Omagh in the very early 90s in the NFL ... good to see them back
Would like to see Antrim get promotion here. I think it's between Offaly, Antrim and Wicklow.
It'll be no surprise to anyone following at this stage to know that I think Clare are woefully underestimated in this division. They've set things to rights under Doherty after an abysmal year under Páidí, and there are plenty of players keen to prove how last year was an anomaly. They've always had footballers down there, and I strongly suspect that if they get off to any kind of start at all they'll be there or thereabouts.
I have got heavily stuck into them to win the division, and I'm going to cover my stake when Offaly play down in Ennis.
They have the opposite draw to us by the way. Antrim, Wicklow and Offaly along with Waterford all have to go to Ennis, while the penalty kicks (other than a resurgent Carlow - the spanner in the works) are away from home.
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 26, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
It'll be no surprise to anyone following at this stage to know that I think Clare are woefully underestimated in this division. They've set things to rights under Doherty after an abysmal year under Páidí, and there are plenty of players keen to prove how last year was an anomaly. They've always had footballers down there, and I strongly suspect that if they get off to any kind of start at all they'll be there or thereabouts.
I have got heavily stuck into them to win the division, and I'm going to cover my stake when Offaly play down in Ennis.
They have the opposite draw to us by the way. Antrim, Wicklow and Offaly along with Waterford all have to go to Ennis, while the penalty kicks (other than a resurgent Carlow - the spanner in the works) are away from home.
Was this the bet u were calling into PP every day over??? How much will u take em for if it comes off??? Best of luck with it anyway, Div 4 could be tight enough...
What's the betting for this division?
Quote from: ExiledGael on January 28, 2008, 03:51:23 PM
What's the betting for this division?
1/10 on the quality of football will be pure shite ;)
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 28, 2008, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 26, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
It'll be no surprise to anyone following at this stage to know that I think Clare are woefully underestimated in this division. They've set things to rights under Doherty after an abysmal year under Páidí, and there are plenty of players keen to prove how last year was an anomaly. They've always had footballers down there, and I strongly suspect that if they get off to any kind of start at all they'll be there or thereabouts.
I have got heavily stuck into them to win the division, and I'm going to cover my stake when Offaly play down in Ennis.
They have the opposite draw to us by the way. Antrim, Wicklow and Offaly along with Waterford all have to go to Ennis, while the penalty kicks (other than a resurgent Carlow - the spanner in the works) are away from home.
Was this the bet u were calling into PP every day over??? How much will u take em for if it comes off??? Best of luck with it anyway, Div 4 could be tight enough...
Twasn't all PP - Boyles were 20/1 for a while at the start, so in actual fact most of it is with them. Powers will only be a small percentage of the total, which I won't go into, since much like driving speeds, the appropriate level of betting for any individual is very much a matter of personal taste. You've all heard how drivers believe anyone going faster than them is a lunatic, while anyone going slower is a waste of space on the road - well so it often is with betting.
It's not that I expect them to win mind - I just think that if four out of their first five games are handy enough, with only Antrim in Ennis being that tricky. If they sneak a win in that game and are 5/5, they'll probably only need one win out of their home games over whoever won between Wicklow and Offaly in Aughrim to round it off. I honestly think that's only a 6 or 7 to one shot, and now that David Russell has come back in on Doherty's terms they can only get better.
Carlow might throw a spanner in the works next week so I'll be watching that anxiously, but I'm hoping that when Offaly come to Ennis both teams will be unbeaten, I can cover my stake at 1/2 or so and be in a win/win situation.
Taking Best prices.....
Offaly 4/5 (Lads)
Wicklow 9/2 (Stan James, betdirect)
Antrim 5/1 (Lads)
Clare 14/1 (Hills)
Carlow 28/1 (Bluesq)
50/1 Bar those.
LS, I presume the 50/1 about Carlow (suspended) was an error on the website? :D
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 28, 2008, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on January 28, 2008, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: Lone Shark on January 26, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
Taking Best prices.....
Offaly 4/5 (Lads)
Wicklow 9/2 (Stan James, betdirect)
Antrim 5/1 (Lads)
Clare 14/1 (Hills)
Carlow 28/1 (Bluesq)
50/1 Bar those.
Surely Carlow are worth a punt at 28/1 with Blue Square.
ah I dunno blasmere. It's only worth a punt if they have a decent chance, and I think there are 4 or 5 better teams in that division.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 28, 2008, 04:27:52 PM
ah I dunno blasmere. It's only worth a punt if they have a decent chance, and I think there are 4 or 5 better teams in that division.
I just thought based on their performance against Dublin last week, they would be capable of beating the majority of teams in this division, and at those odds, they're pretty tempting, 1/3 e/w for a place in the first two
True. Wasn't thinking of the each way to be honest. Even so, based on the fact that I'd rate Offaly, Antrim, Wicklow and Clare at least ahead of them. Their second display against the Dubs may have been more reflective.
The 50/1 about Carlow was an old price re-activated for some unknown technical reason. All that said I've a sneaking suspicion that they have a long way to go. Remember how good Micko's Wicklow looked in this last year?
An eight point loss to a second string Dublin side at home wouldn't inspire either. I think it's just a case of high profile right now - I'd still rate Waterford higher than them, with the top four still well out in front.
I thought Carlows win was a surprise also especially down in Clare.
Good win for Antrim, considering most people reckon it's between them and Wicklow for the second place promotion.
Big game this weekend now. After Carlow did the business down in Clare, a win for Offaly in Dr. Cullen Park would be an important result.
Week 2 Fixtures
Antrim v Kilkenny at Casement Park. Should be a handy win for the Glensmen. When did they last do the double over Kilkenny? :D
Tipperary v Clare at Ardfinnan. Big win for Tipp the last day, but probably learned nothing. Clare learned more against Carlow, but did they learn enough? I'll say Clare here.
Carlow v Offaly at Dr. Cullen Park. Similar to Tipp, Offaly had a big, but meaningless, win over London. Carlow had a quality win in Ennis. So now, how good are Offaly? We're about to find out. I'll go with them, but very hesitantly.
Waterford v Wicklow at Fraher Field. Debut for Waterford this weekend against a Wicklow team smarting after losing at home to Antrim. Wicklow to bounce back.
The Carlow-Offaly game this Saturday is huge in Div 4. I reckon its 2 of Carlow, Offaly & Antrim for promotion. So whoever wins Saturday is well on the way to Div 3 & stayin clear of that dreaded Tommy Murphy Cup!
Offaly had the expected win last weekend, not much can be learned from that kinda game. Carlow had a great win down in Clare. 5 minutes into 2nd half we were 2 pts down, a man down & playing into a gale force wind..it looked bad for us. Clare then got a man sent off, so it was 14 v 14. And in the next 10/15 mins the Carlow lads played brilliantly and hit 1-4 without reply to go 1-10 - 0-8 ahead. Then in the last few mins Clare lost the head & got 2 guys sent off. It was as good and commited a Carlow performance as ive ever seen. Long way from our last league game where we lost by 11 pts to London, or our TM Cup game in June where we conceded 8-10 to Waterford! :o
So Saturdays game should be close, hopefully we get back a couple of the guys who picked up injuries in the draw with Dublin in Parnell Park. Simon Rea our top forward & Paul Cashin the captain, might be back. That would be good boost. Looking forward to game & it will tell so much about where both teams are at.
Good man stevecw. Good to see a scallion ater on board :D
Who got sent off for ye in Clare?
I said i may join eventually!! Been on hoganstand & fearrua 4 ages. Been looking in here for a while, so said id add a Carlow voice to the site!
Brian Farrell, a quality Fb or corner back...been a rock in defence for us 4 years got the straight red. Was his 1st game back after injury & he was 2 mins on the field when he went to block down a shot with both hands...ball went past him...his hands got the Clare guy in the face & the crazy ref gave him straight red. The ref..2 mins later gave a Clare guy a 2nd yellow for a slightly late tackle. 14 v 14 was when we took over, played so well & banged in 1-4 without reply all into a serious wind & rain at the time.
We stayed well in control...Clare lost another guy about 10 mins left...straight red for something he said :o Seemed harsh. But by then they had no way back.
Game Saturday should be interesting. As an Offaly guy im sure you were at that joke of a championship game last June in Portlaoise!!! We were a total mess then, but Paul Bealin & his selectors have really got things going here...and we'd fancy our chances of winning despite the crazy odds being offered by PP.
10/3 Carlow v 2/7 Offaly!!
Good odds i might add to the 33/1 i got for us to win div 4 in december. Now only 7/1!!
QuoteAs an Offaly guy im sure you were at that joke of a championship game last June in Portlaoise!!!
I certainly was, but I'm under no preconceptions about next weekend because of it. Ye were a total mess off the field back then, and didn't do yourselves justice.
10/3 is mad odds for Carlow at home. Ye beat us down there in the qualifiers a couple of years ago. That was some gutless display.
Yes we actually have more of the team that beat ye in the qualifiers a couple of years back playing now than last years side.
Last year we had basically a Carlow reserve team playing...all the best lads stayed away. And results were that London lge game, the Offaly horror show & by the time we got to TM Cup V Waterford i could have got a game. Txts were being sent that day to get 15 down to Waterford. Result we lost 8-10 to 0-7 & papers loved it!
But as you know AZ this weekend will be different story. Carlow are on a high...winning in Clare & Wexford already...drawing in Dublin. We are confident. But we know Offaly is the team to beat in Div 4. If we can win this game...we are well on the way. Offaly on the other hand, would expect to beat the likes of Carlow im sure. To be honest with the panel ye have, it should be Offaly promoted + 1 of Carlow, Antrim, & maybe Wicklow or Clare.
But still 10/3 are crazy odds in 2 horse race!! Im gonna have to have a bet!
Im sure u AZ will be in Dr Cullen Park Saturday...u reckon Offaly will have much of a crowd down?
Quote from: stevecw on February 05, 2008, 09:25:27 PM
Yes we actually have more of the team that beat ye in the qualifiers a couple of years back playing now than last years side.
Last year we had basically a Carlow reserve team playing...all the best lads stayed away. And results were that London lge game, the Offaly horror show & by the time we got to TM Cup V Waterford i could have got a game. Txts were being sent that day to get 15 down to Waterford. Result we lost 8-10 to 0-7 & papers loved it!
But as you know AZ this weekend will be different story. Carlow are on a high...winning in Clare & Wexford already...drawing in Dublin. We are confident. But we know Offaly is the team to beat in Div 4. If we can win this game...we are well on the way. Offaly on the other hand, would expect to beat the likes of Carlow im sure. To be honest with the panel ye have, it should be Offaly promoted + 1 of Carlow, Antrim, & maybe Wicklow or Clare.
But still 10/3 are crazy odds in 2 horse race!! Im gonna have to have a bet!
Im sure u AZ will be in Dr Cullen Park Saturday...u reckon Offaly will have much of a crowd down?
I expect a very tough game for Offaly this weekend, and it will be interesting to see how far along the road they are. I cannot see Offaly getting 8 points from trips to Carlow, Wicklow, Antrim and Clare. However, a win this Saturday would be significant, and maybe they could start thinking along those lines.
I'm at a 30th Birthday Party in the wilds of South Kerry this weekend, so I won't make it to the game. I'd say there'll be a small enough Offaly crowd. Maybe a couple of hundred.
Great win in carlow. Genuinely surprised by the margin. Hopefully it means offaly will storm to promotion. We'll see. Did antrim play Kilkenny?
Good win for Tipperary today against Clare. The visitors led by 1-2 to 0-0 after about 10 minutes, but Tipp turned it around to be level at half time. The 3rd quarter was pretty even, but Tipp finished stronger and were clearly the better team in the last 10 or 12 minutes. Clare won the McGrath Cup a couple of weeks ago, beating Limerick in the Final, so they can't be that bad. Tipp will be happy with this result, which was their best National League performance for a couple of years. These first 2 weeks suggest that there is every chance that Offaly will win the Division comfortably enough, with a real battle for the second promotion place.
Thought Clare would give this division a right lash, however with Offaly still to come I'd say their league is already over. Some result for Offaly today, as far as I know it was 1-7 to 0-6 at half time, what happened to Carlow in the second half I wonder?
Quote from: Onlooker on February 09, 2008, 06:11:16 PM
Good win for Tipperary today against Clare. The visitors led by 1-2 to 0-0 after about 10 minutes, but Tipp turned it around to be level at half time. The 3rd quarter was pretty even, but Tipp finished stronger and were clearly the better team in the last 10 or 12 minutes. Clare won the McGrath Cup a couple of weeks ago, beating Limerick in the Final, so they can't be that bad. Tipp will be happy with this result, which was their best National League performance for a couple of years. These first 2 weeks suggest that there is every chance that Offaly will win the Division comfortably enough, with a real battle for the second promotion place.
No disrespect to Carlow, but the big games are still to come, away to Wicklow and away to Antrim. The likes of Clare and Carlow can still influence the promotion spots by taking points off the big boys though, I think Offaly have to head to Clare too.
Are Tipp shaping up again? Btw, is/did Browne lining out for Moyle Rovers in the hurling today?
Antrim v Kilkenny NFL half-time
Allianz NFL Division Four half-time
Antrim 2-15 0-03 Kilkenny
Any ideas on how to improve the situation down in Kilkenny, with the proper support from their CB and some investment at underage they could surely be semi-competitive at division 4 level.
Would the fact that they are participating in this years league have any link to the impending player grants?
Could a neighbouring county not lend them a couple of footballers in the same manner that they lend out hurlers to weaker counties?
Quote from: Minder on February 09, 2008, 10:07:37 PM
Would the fact that they are participating in this years league have any link to the impending player grants?
Nicky Brennan (the gaa president) is from Kilkenny and undertook to have them back playing senior (or as close as they can manage) football.
Got this one wrong all right.
Still, when you've been in this game a while, it's very easy stick the hand up and acknowledge calling something badly. It's the same as when you play a game or watch your county and lose to a better team - it's an easy thing to get over. It's the ones where you feel you've got fecked over that stick in the craw.
(e.g I backed Laois plus 3 against Galway a few weeks ago in the NFL - I recorded the match and the final whistle went before Mullally kicked the ball. The ref let the score count anyway, and the bet loses. Much smaller stake, bugged me much much more)
Quote from: Zulu on February 09, 2008, 06:29:01 PM
Some result for Offaly today, as far as I know it was 1-7 to 0-6 at half time, what happened to Carlow in the second half I wonder?
A day later im still trying to work out what happened to us aswell! Hard to believe we fell apart and gave up so easy in the 2nd half.
1st half was a fairly even game. Ok Offaly were 4 pts up at HT, but they had a goal chance and took it. We had 2 goal chances & both were brilliantly saved by the Offaly keeper. That was only real difference is 1st half. And with wind behind us for the 2nd half, we were confident of getting the win.
But who knows what happened them from then on, Offaly came out and knocked over about 4 points in 4 minutes after the break. And all the Carlow heads went down, most just gave up even trying bar 1 or 2 of the lads. From about the 40th minute to the end it was a joke, Offaly strolling up the pitch, no pressure on them. Kicked 2-12 with only 2 late points from us in reply! It was shocking to see after so much promise so far this year.
Ok Offaly are very good, not a Div 4 side on that display for sure, but for us to totally give up and let them hammer our scoring difference could well come back to haunt us later in this campaign.
Was just like last year all over again, just when we thought those kinda days were over for us :(
Suddenly next weeks trip to London is looking tricky after that display.
What do you mean?
Quote from: Aristotle Flynn on February 10, 2008, 09:52:45 PM
What do you mean?
Who me??? I think its obvious what i mean about Carlows display yesterday!
Not from carlow or even near it but to give up is terrible after all the ass busting training, why bother? Its not as though offaly are that good, they split something like 60,000 population between football and hurling and cannot be that much better than carlow, can they?
Thats the problem with weaker counties, thay just roll over and take what they deem to be their lot in the worst possible way. I watched carlow give the dubs plenty to chew on in the obyrne cup drawn game, what happened to the fight in them since then?
It will be an interesting game for Carlow next week when they go to London. Both sides have been well beaten by Offaly so far in the league, although London only had about half of their first choice team available that day and it was their first game of the year of any description. I'm not sure if they will be any better this time out, but they couldn't be any weaker that's for sure.
I know Carlow are a far superior team than London, but when Carlow were at their lowest ebb last year they came to London for a league game and were hammered. It was in fact London's first since 2004 in the league... their previous victory was again against Carlow. So London are a bogey team for the Carlow boys and on top of that, despite the obvious great work that Bealin has done in pulling all the troops together, if they have a soft centre, and who knows, if they treat the London trip as a novelty, then their could be a shock in the offering.
Having said that though, given that London are still trying to get everyone back together (they only had a couple of their Tir Chonaill Gaels players available) and have only played one game all year, Carlow would need to be very bad to lose it.... but they've done it before.
Quote from: irunthev on February 11, 2008, 10:13:37 AM
It will be an interesting game for Carlow next week when they go to London. Both sides have been well beaten by Offaly so far in the league, although London only had about half of their first choice team available that day and it was their first game of the year of any description. I'm not sure if they will be any better this time out, but they couldn't be any weaker that's for sure.
I know Carlow are a far superior team than London, but when Carlow were at their lowest ebb last year they came to London for a league game and were hammered. It was in fact London's first since 2004 in the league... their previous victory was again against Carlow. So London are a bogey team for the Carlow boys and on top of that, despite the obvious great work that Bealin has done in pulling all the troops together, if they have a soft centre, and who knows, if they treat the London trip as a novelty, then their could be a shock in the offering.
Having said that though, given that London are still trying to get everyone back together (they only had a couple of their Tir Chonaill Gaels players available) and have only played one game all year, Carlow would need to be very bad to lose it.... but they've done it before.
We after last Saturdays game will be well afraid of London next weekend. Last year when we lost to ye over there, we were struggling to get 15 guys over for the game. That loss was no surprise at all. Things were at an all time low then.
Interesting you point out that other time London beat Carlow was 2004....that was the year we beat Dublin in the O'Byrne Cup!!
Thats a lot of what we are basing our hope on this year...beating Wexford away, drawing away with Dublin...but it was all O'Byrne Cup.
We thought we got a great result in league in Clare last wkend, but now we see they lost to Tipp too...so maybe we were getting hopeful too soon.
That Offaly 2nd half on Sat brought us crashing back down to earth...word is players who were taken off early say they wont go to London etc. Usual Carlow Sh!te...but if Bealin & co can sort that out we should easily win in Ruislip Saturday
Quote from: stevecw on February 11, 2008, 10:22:23 PM
We after last Saturdays game will be well afraid of London next weekend. Last year when we lost to ye over there, we were struggling to get 15 guys over for the game. That loss was no surprise at all. Things were at an all time low then.
How come things were so bad last year? Was Hayes in charge or was that the year before?
Quote from: Owenmoresider on February 11, 2008, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: stevecw on February 11, 2008, 10:22:23 PM
We after last Saturdays game will be well afraid of London next weekend. Last year when we lost to ye over there, we were struggling to get 15 guys over for the game. That loss was no surprise at all. Things were at an all time low then.
How come things were so bad last year? Was Hayes in charge or was that the year before?
No it was 2005 & 06when Hayes was in charge. Last year we had Andy Shorthall, who got no respect, lasted 5 league games...all defeats & then they go for John Kearns a former co goalie. He lost 1st game, then beat Longford, then went to London & lost by 11pts :o
Championship came we lost to Offaly by about 10 points, then barely got 15 to travel to Waterford to lose by 8-10 to 7 pts!!
Out of the best 15 players in Carlow...id say we were doing well if we had 5 for that champ game v Offaly. As for the TM Cup game, if i had a pair of boots & travelled to Waterford, i wud have got a game!! Thats how bad it got...there was phone calls, texts flying around that morning to round up 15 for the game!!
But Bealin seems to have got things in order this year. All was going great til Offaly game, but nxt wkends response in London will tell a lot!
I think London would rather be playing you later in the league when they have a few games under their belts. At this moment in time they are still trying to get themselves up and running properly. On the day anything can happen, but at this point in time, London have too many weak links and too many players with little or no experience in the starting 15. This will change as the year progresses and players are back from injury etc, but in this instance I think the O'Byrne Cup games will stand them in good stead for the trip to London. Although people might say they were only O'Byrne Cup games that Carlow did well in, they were still games. I think there is a point too that Offaly are far too good a team for this division, but only have themselves to blame for not ensuring they got enough points last year to get promoted. Realistically..... Offaly bare no comparison to Tipp, Waterford, Kilkenny and London and obviously Carlow on a bad day (or typically Carlow day... depending on your point of view). Certainly not writing London off this year or am I being critical of where they are at the moment, and they may well be worth two league wins, but Carlow should have too much fitness and game time at this in the year not to be favourites in London.
Another interesting week in Division 4 this weekend.
Kilkenny v Waterford at Freshford. Kilkenny are taking a few hammerings thus far, so hopefully they can remain keen on the idea of playing in the league. Waterford must win comfortably here.
Offaly v Tipperary at O'Connor Park. Offaly will be buoyed by the big win in Carlow last saturday, and with Clare and Wicklow having already dropped points, they will be keen to inflict damage on Clare's conquerers. I hate to tip Offaly in anything, but you have to expect them to come through this with a bit to spare.
Clare v Antrim at Ennis. This may be tricky for Antrim. Clare will be smarting over their defeat to Carlow at home especially, and will be annoyed that they didn't do the business in Ardfinnan last weekend. Antrim are 2 from 2, including a good win in Aughrim, so you would expect them to come through, but Clare may well surprise us.
London v Carlow in Ruislip. Carlow will be shell-shocked by last weekend's collapse at home to Offaly, however they were well in the game at half time, which makes the second half even more puzzling. You would expect them to be better than London, but if the cobwebs are not cleared, London could do a number on them over there.
Wicklow are idle, so Micko can go to the Kerry game.
Is there anyone going to any of the DIV 4 games, that would be willing to text updates to the Live Scores service on GAA Radio? The number to send your texts to is 447624804328. The service is free for everyone to view at http://www.gaaradio.com/scores/liveScores.jsp . Thanks.
Quote from: drici on February 16, 2008, 03:49:29 PM
Some great defending in the London/Carlow match.
Not anymore! Its Carlow 3-5 - 0-3 London at half time in Ruislip
Quote from: hardstation on February 16, 2008, 04:14:32 PM
Results:
Clare 0-03 Antrim 1-13 ;D
Kilkenny 0-08 Waterford 2-09
Offaly 1-11 Tipperary 1-07
Go Jody, I dont care who it is against, a win is a win
Ended Carlow 3-10 - London 1-9. Made way too many changes and let them back into it in 2nd half. Ok at least its a win, but very hard to see us getting anything out of the Antrim game.
That was a fine effort by Tipp in Tullamore, with a very young team that could yet have a say in the promotion race. Real progress is being made under new manager, John Evans, and I think that we will have some good days in the not too distant future.
Indeed good performance from Tipp.
Good performance by Kilkenny aswell, to keep within 10 points of a fairly decent waterford team shows they are getting better every game.
Interesting weekend in Div 4. Was surprised Tipp ran Offaly so close, esp after Offalys 20 pt win last week. Also didnt expect Clare 0-3 - 1-13 Antrim :o
Waterford beat Kilk by 7, Carlow beat London by 7.
So by the looks of it...Antrim v Carlow on March 15th will decide who goes up with Offaly. Wow huge game...winner avoids Tommy Murphy for this year. If Antrim lose in Ulster or Carlow lose v Meath....as it stands whoever loses goes to the dreaded Tommy Murphy Cup. Other team can have qualifiers so dream lives on
QuoteSo by the looks of it...Antrim v Carlow on March 15th will decide who goes up with Offaly.
Wouldn't be so sure of that stevecw. If Offaly aren't on top of their game in 2 weeks time up in Antrim, they'll be beaten up there. In fact given Antrim's impressive wins in Wicklow and Ennis, they should be favourites for that game at the moment.
Of course they should AZ. ;)
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 11:09:22 AM
Of course they should AZ. ;)
Ah now, in fairness. Wicklow hockeyed Offaly in the Tommy Murphy Cup last year, and we were unimpressive against Tipperary. In contrast Antrim destroyed Clare down in Ennis, and beat Wicklow fairly well in Aughrim.
Based on form lines, you'd have to make Antrim 10/11 and Offaly 11/10.
I'm speaking here as a bookie, and not as a Biffo - Antrim will almost certainly be favourites for that game.
Stevecw, I can't help but think you're being a little over-optimistic saying that ye and Antrim will be the main players for second place - right now it looks a lot more likely that Antrim will go up as winners and second place will be decided in Aughrim when we play Wicklow. I'm not sure where else I see Wicklow dropping points for the rest of the year.
Carlow's heavy defeat by Offaly could cost them in this Division as their score difference is now very poor. I do not see them as likely to win promotion. Tipp v. Antrim could be a very important game yet. Tipp are a young team, but are improving under an excellent manager. They gave Offaly a bit of a fright on Saturday and are capable of doing damage to the promotion prospects of some of the more fancied teams.
How's John Evans doing there Onlooker? He's a top manager in my opinion.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2008, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 11:09:22 AM
Of course they should AZ. ;)
Ah now, in fairness. Wicklow hockeyed Offaly in the Tommy Murphy Cup last year, and we were unimpressive against Tipperary. In contrast Antrim destroyed Clare down in Ennis, and beat Wicklow fairly well in Aughrim.
Based on form lines, you'd have to make Antrim 10/11 and Offaly 11/10.
I'm afraid I can't agree with that opinion. Wicklow may well have hockeyed you in the Tommy Murphy Cup, but that was Micko trying to justify his expenses. Wicklow were one of only three counties who took the TM cup seriously. I'm told only eight men turned up to play for Offaly that day and the fifteen was made up with the physio, four boyos pulled from the pub, one spectator (the entire Offaly crowd) and a bale of peat briquettes. Whilst the man who told me that story may have exaggerated things slightly, it is certain that the team against Wicklow bore no resemblance (in personel or attitude) to that which scared the shite out of the Dubs in the Leinster semi-final a couple of weeks earlier. The Offaly squad should surely be embarrassed playing against this current level of Div. 4 dross each week and this embarrassment, coupled with a proud history will see an unbeaten run back to Div. 3.
Games against Clare and Wicklow are no real form guide, given that both counties are still struggling to come to terms with the excesses of recent managers. In addition, this is an Antrim squad in disarray - our most important player exiled from the squad, our two most dangerous forwards nowhere near full fitness. Antrim are just happy to be playing against the likes of Offaly who in players like Matt Connor, Martin Furlong, Brian Whelehan etc. gave us some of the all-time greats.
Your odds would only be realistic if you had included Antrim
(+7) and Offaly
(-7)If Lone Shark is serious about his odds, I'll have a nibble at the Faithful.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2008, 01:29:46 PM
How's John Evans doing there Onlooker? He's a top manager in my opinion.
I would say that John Evans has had a very positive impact on the Tipp footballers. 5 Under 21 players started for Tipp last Saturday and if the second penalty had resulted in a goal iinstead of a point anything could have happened in the last 10 minutes. It is early days yet, but I like what I have seen from our footballers this year. There are still a few players to come back into the side after injuries and club commitments and I am confident that John Evans is building a fine team. It will take a bit of time, but I think it will happen.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 19, 2008, 11:18:03 AM
Quote from: saffron sam2 on February 19, 2008, 11:09:22 AM
Of course they should AZ. ;)
Ah now, in fairness. Wicklow hockeyed Offaly in the Tommy Murphy Cup last year, and we were unimpressive against Tipperary. In contrast Antrim destroyed Clare down in Ennis, and beat Wicklow fairly well in Aughrim.
Based on form lines, you'd have to make Antrim 10/11 and Offaly 11/10.
I'm afraid I can't agree with that opinion. Wicklow may well have hockeyed you in the Tommy Murphy Cup, but that was Micko trying to justify his expenses. Wicklow were one of only three counties who took the TM cup seriously. I'm told only eight men turned up to play for Offaly that day and the fifteen was made up with the physio, four boyos pulled from the pub, one spectator (the entire Offaly crowd) and a bale of peat briquettes. Whilst the man who told me that story may have exaggerated things slightly, it is certain that the team against Wicklow bore no resemblance (in personel or attitude) to that which scared the shite out of the Dubs in the Leinster semi-final a couple of weeks earlier. The Offaly squad should surely be embarrassed playing against this current level of Div. 4 dross each week and this embarrassment, coupled with a proud history will see an unbeaten run back to Div. 3.
Games against Clare and Wicklow are no real form guide, given that both counties are still struggling to come to terms with the excesses of recent managers. In addition, this is an Antrim squad in disarray - our most important player exiled from the squad, our two most dangerous forwards nowhere near full fitness. Antrim are just happy to be playing against the likes of Offaly who in players like Matt Connor, Martin Furlong, Brian Whelehan etc. gave us some of the all-time greats.
Your odds would only be realistic if you had included Antrim (+7) and Offaly (-7)
If Lone Shark is serious about his odds, I'll have a nibble at the Faithful.
I would presume that AZ was slightly tongue in cheek when referring to last year's Tommy Murphy cup performance, and rightly so. I wouldn't be using that as a formguide at all. However while we have certainly had some wonderful players and all time greats playing in our colours down the years, you won't be seeing Matt, Martin or Sid lining out in Belfast and the current vintage are not in division 4 for no reason. Our only wins last year were over London, Clare, and Carlow twice. We have a few top quality players, one of which (Karol Slattery) has been out injured all year and if he does make it to Casement will be playing his first game in months, another (Niall McNamee) is being destroyed by once again having to take fees, something he can't do, and thus his confidence takes a hammering in every game as he misses shots that he would kick in his sleep if he was running at full pace with two defenders hanging out of him. Our best player of last year (Sean Ryan) is a dual player and thus the poster child for burnout, and unsurprisingly is also still injured. Only Ciarán McManus and Ger Rafferty of the current lineup are playing at a standard higher than the division in which we now reside.
On reflection, our reputation means that we might just start favourites up there, but rest assured if the likely Antrim lineup was playing the likely Offaly lineup with no "historical" or "tradition" considerations, then the Northern boys would start favourite, and so it should be now. On a neutral venue it would be Offaly 4/6 or 8/13 maybe, but with a couple of points for home advantage it becomes a very close game and one which I would not back Offaly for unless we were at least 6/4 - which we won't be.
Kieran Shannon is very good at stating (and backing up with statistics) that whilst eight of the nine teams in Div. 4 are there on merit, Offaly are unlucky to be lumbered with that rabble. I can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but they are quite compelling.
Home advantage (for Antrim) isn't what it was ten years ago, when free staters were genuinely feared to come into west Belfast. Not any more, sure even Clare footballers have won in Casement.
Any of you biffos coming up?
They tell me same individual may not even make the Arsenal match. A female with the same surname recently attended A & E where she was diagnosed with a fractured elbow, having slipped on their driveway in a Belfast satellite town. Looks like someone will be changing a lot of nappies on their own for the foreseeable future.
Get well soon Bronagh, from all at gaaboard.com
Quotehaving to take fees,
I hope this is a typo, and not a Freudian slip :D
Two points is not a massive home advantage, only about average. I'd allow for a bit more for teams like Armagh, Wicklow, Leitrim and Longford, all of whom have a track record of overachieving at home by a small amount.
Maybe a point less for games where the teams are local rivals and used to playing each other. Feck all difference between Offaly vs Laois in Tullamore and/or Portlaoise for example.
Historically we may be badly treated, but the fact remains that everyone entered 2007 with a blank slate, we all knew what we had to do and Offaly spooned it. If the deducted point from the Longford game was the difference (even though I said then and say now that it was a fair punishment) you could maybe make a case for it, but it wasn't. Even if we had been credited with the draw that day we still would have faced the drop. The one point loss to Monaghan in Clones wasn't that bad a result in hindsight, but other than that we lost in Carrick and we conceded four goals at home to Roscommon when it mattered.
By the by, I think a good chunk of the online Biffo contingent is on the way up. If you see a large Offaly flag with a shark on it, feel free to wave.... :D
Well lads, all set for this weekend.
The closer the game gets, the more worried I become. Antrim's formline is much more impressive than ours, even if on paper we would have the advantage. Home venue, untested Offaly versus a hungry, firing Antrim squad. I can only see one outcome.
Offaly by 6 :D
Only once in my life have I ever bet against Offaly, and that in a dead rubber game, and in one sense I'm delighted to say I did not collect, so I will never again do that.
That said it's taking all my resolve not to do so here. I cannot understand how Antrim are not favourites for this match - form, home advantage, the deeply worrying mismatches in the middle of the field.....
I don't think we'll take a hiding but I'm travelling in hope much more than expectation.
Ye were without the McGourty's in Ennis and Aughrim as well were ye not?
The 'trouble' with the Offaly fans arose from the fact that about two of them, and two Antrim fans ... pissed of course .... thought it was great to call each - sheep shaggers... for a Ballymena man I found that offensive as no matter what the issue, there is no-where in Ireland that can give sheep a seeing to like us!!! I thought that the Antrim fans were taking a liberty by calling the Offaly ones 'Sheep Shaggers'... we are the best in Ireland... That said .. great game and we would have lost if if it was 15 a side.... but good match and almost championship pace and noise ... more Saturday nights please.
Quote from: hardstation on March 01, 2008, 11:21:31 PM
Going to post this here too. Because these mods could ban you for sticking it in the wrong place.
Sorry, the board was acting the ballix and asking me to log in all the time.
First point: If anyone from Fermanagh ever sees Martin Higgins, could you please telll him to give up. I have never seen a worse referee in my life. I must say that he was shite for both teams throughout the match but the two frees that he gave to Offaly at the end, were f**king brutal. An absolute clown. Martin, if you are reading this, please stop refereeing games. He was rightly booed off the field.
I can but apoligize. I have no idea how he got to this level.
But to put it into perspective. He is by no means the worst referee in Fermanagh. Not by a long way
Just back now, a thoroughly enjoyable trip, even if it did confirm once more how much we belong in this division. A few random points, rather than a big spiel....
(1) On the balance of play Antrim probably marginally deserved the win. They were probably a point or two better than us on balance of play, but we got the draw because we managed to engineer one goal chance and took it - I don't think Antrim looked like scoring a goal if the game went on for five hours.
(2) The referee was atrocious, but he was simply a non-contact referee - and while we got our handy scores at the end, it suited Antrim a lot more over the full 70 minutes. Both sets of forwards got handy frees all night, but we have no freetaker, as ye saw at the end when Ken Casey (a 19 year old sub) even took one. The sending off of McManus was for nothing at all either - barely a free, never mind a second yellow card. Certainly he shouldn't be let near an intercounty match at all - every defender on the pitch was scared to tackle by the end.
(3) Worst game Niall McNamee has played for years - we should probably be glad that we got any kind of result without him, because without him, Slattery (injury) and McManus (Red Card) we have no blue chip players left.
(4) There was no trouble in the crowd at all. I was part of that Offaly bunch, and it was just some shouting over and back about which team was worse than the other, before the Antrim guy started bleating ;) about the sheepshagging stuff. To be honest I didn't even know what he was saying until I read it on this board. At the risk of brown-nosing, as I expected the Antrim crowd were generally a great bunch. Was chatting to a good few during the game, and most were both knowledgeable and great gas altogether - as good as it gets.
(5) Both sets of management could do with a little bit of insightful reading of the game. For some reason we left Scott Brady on at full back for the whole match despite the fact that he couldn't move. He broke down as he was going out for the ball for Magill's first point, and after that Magill, who wouldn't be the quickest player around, was beating him to the ball by five yards over a 15 yard run. But while Offaly management was taking a risk leaving him on, Antim were even more sleepy by not seeing it, and both playing more early ball into that area and by leaving Magill on him instead of a faster guy who could have got an awful lot of ball and possibly created a goal chance or two.
All in all Antim will be the happier team, because ye now have promotion in the bag while we basically have a winner takes second place clash in Aughrim to look forward to. It is a little bit galling that of the three teams going for promotion, Wicklow get two home games in the mini series, Antrim get one and we get none, but such is the luck of the draw.
Higgins is hardly fit to handle a club game in Fermanagh. He's quite young, fit and keen, and that's about it.
Really don't know who makes these decisions. They seem miles out of touch with the game and the circumstances sometimes.
Quote from: ExiledGael on March 02, 2008, 05:30:36 PM
Higgins is hardly fit to handle a club game in Fermanagh. He's quite young, fit and keen, and that's about it.
Really don't know who makes these decisions. They seem miles out of touch with the game and the circumstances sometimes.
Its a pity that one of Fermanagh's finest referee's, Phillip Owens, did not get this game.
He really is wasted referring at Junior level in Fermanagh :D ;D
Lone Shark, Offaly had to play Antrim and Wicklow away, but ye played Tipperary in Tullamore, while Wicklow and Antrim both have to travel to Tipp. There could be a twist in this Division yet and I would not agree that Wicklow and Offaly have a play off for the second promotion place just yet.
God LS, I wouldn't be as negative as that in fairness, in relation to the fact that we are just going for second place. I agree that Wicklow is a huge game now, but I'm happy with a draw up there. Are we ahead on points differential? It could come down to how much we beat Kilkenny by.
Anyone able to fill me in on the details of what went on in Tipp yesterday?
Quote from: hardstation on March 03, 2008, 11:05:29 AM
Offaly, I think, are looking at top spot. If they beat Wicklow, they should chalk up a huge score against Kilkenny. I reckon they'll score a fair bit more than Antrim did. Offaly are currently ahead on score difference.
True, but ye'll probably score more than we did against London. Also ye have Waterford at home on the last week while we have a bye - meaning that ye'll have a set target to chase against a team who'll more than likely be playing a dead rubber.
Not that it matters - I can't see any material difference between finishing first and second. Second and third on the other hand are a world away from each other.
Quote from: irunthev on March 03, 2008, 09:04:37 AM
Anyone able to fill me in on the details of what went on in Tipp yesterday?
I suppose the score line tells it all, but London actually started quite well and scored the first 2 points to lead by that margin after about 12 minutes. Once Tipp got a couple of scores on the board they settled down and were well on top to half time and led 1-7 to 0-2 after playing against a light breeze. The goal came from a penalty, but it was a certain goal anyway if the London goalkeeper had not pulled down the forward (yellow card). Tipp were completely on top in the second half and scored 16 points (13 from play). The London goalkeeper, Evan Byrne, who is from Tipperary made a number of good saves, but Tipp were getting their points so easily that they did not really press that much for goals in the second half and were content to keep the scoreboard ticking over. Barry Grogan scored 1-9 for Tipp (a goal from a penalty, 6 points from frees and 3 points from play).
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 03, 2008, 08:57:05 AM
God LS, I wouldn't be as negative as that in fairness, in relation to the fact that we are just going for second place. I agree that Wicklow is a huge game now, but I'm happy with a draw up there. Are we ahead on points differential? It could come down to how much we beat Kilkenny by.
I don't think it's being negative - just for the reasons in the post above, I think our score difference will be eroded and I don't see Antrim dropping any more points.
All this talk of Tipperary is all very well, but their narrow home win over Clare doesn't look like great form now, while beating London and Kilkenny is hardly big news. I think we just made them look better than they were and I expect both Antrim and Wicklow to beat them with a fair bit to spare.
Quote from: Lone Shark on March 03, 2008, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 03, 2008, 08:57:05 AM
God LS, I wouldn't be as negative as that in fairness, in relation to the fact that we are just going for second place. I agree that Wicklow is a huge game now, but I'm happy with a draw up there. Are we ahead on points differential? It could come down to how much we beat Kilkenny by.
I don't think it's being negative - just for the reasons in the post above, I think our score difference will be eroded and I don't see Antrim dropping any more points.
All this talk of Tipperary is all very well, but their narrow home win over Clare doesn't look like great form now, while beating London and Kilkenny is hardly big news. I think we just made them look better than they were and I expect both Antrim and Wicklow to beat them with a fair bit to spare.
Well you've more or less conceded the top spot to Antrim on the basis of the draw on Sunday night. I'd say Offaly would be happier than Antrim with that result. If we get a win in Aughrim (big If), then I would expect us to be very close to winning the division. Where do Antrim play Tipp and Waterford?
Having said that, I accept that there's shag all difference between first and second, and the game in Aughrim will probably determine the team to go up with Antrim, in whatever order, notwithstanding Tipp's impressive enough start.
Current TableOffaly Played 4, Diff + 46, Points 7
Antrim Played 4, Diff + 43, Points 7
Tipperary Played 4 Diff +45, Points 6
Wicklow Played 3 Diff + 36 Points 4
Waterford Played 3 Diff + 7 Points 4
Carlow Played 3 Diff -8 Points 4
Clare Played 4 Diff -27 Points 0
London Played 3 Diff -51 Points 0
Kilkenny Played 4 Diff -91 Points 0
These are the fixtures left. (Offaly have 3 points better than Antrim, 1 point better than Tipp, and 10 points better than Wicklow). For the gas, I've put in my predictions to see what the table will be like at the end, with the help of God :D
15th/16th MarchAntrim v Carlow (Antrim +10)
Kilkenny v Clare (Clare +15)
Wicklow v Offaly (Offaly + 4) (Touch wood)
Waterford v London (Waterford + 10)
Tipperary Bye.
That would leave itAntrim Played 5, Diff + 53, Points 9
Offaly Played 5, Diff + 50, Points 9
Tipperary Played 4 Diff +45, Points 6
Waterford Played 4 Diff + 17 Points 6
Wicklow Played 4 Diff + 32 Points 4
Carlow Played 4 Diff -18 Points 4
Clare Played 5 Diff -12 Points 2
London Played 4 Diff -61 Points 0
Kilkenny Played 5 Diff -106 Points 0
29th/30th MarchCarlow v Tipperary (Tipp + 5)
Offaly v Waterford (Offaly + 10)
London v Antrim (Antrim + 15)
Clare v Wicklow (Wicklow + 8 )
Kilkenny Bye
That would leave itAntrim Played 6, Diff + 68, Points 11
Offaly Played 6, Diff + 60, Points 11
Tipperary Played 5 Diff +50, Points 8
Wicklow Played 5 Diff + 40 Points 6
Waterford Played 5 Diff + 7 Points 6
Carlow Played 5 Diff -23 Points 4
Clare Played 6 Diff -20 Points 2
London Played 5 Diff -76 Points 0
Kilkenny Played 5 Diff -106 Points 0
6th AprilTipperary v Antrim (Antrim +3)
Carlow v Waterford (Carlow +2)
Offaly v Kilkenny (Offaly + 25)
London v Wicklow (Wicklow +10)
Clare Bye
That would leave itOffaly Played 7, Diff + 85, Points 13
Antrim Played 7, Diff + 71, Points 13
Wicklow Played 6 Diff + 50 Points 8
Tipperary Played 6, Diff +47, Points 8
Waterford Played 6 Diff + 5 Points 6
Carlow Played 6 Diff -21 Points 6
Clare Played 6 Diff -20 Points 2
London Played 6 Diff -86 Points 0
Kilkenny Played 6 Diff -131 Points 0
13th AprilWaterford v Tipperary (tipperary + 7)
Kilkenny v London (London + 6)
Wicklow v Carlow (Wicklow + 5)
Clare v Offaly (Offaly + 9)
Antrim Bye
That makes itOffaly Played 8, Diff + 94, Points 15
Antrim Played 7, Diff + 71, Points 13
Wicklow Played 7 Diff + 55 Points 10
Tipperary Played 7, Diff +54, Points 10
Waterford Played 7 Diff -2 Points 6
Carlow Played 7 Diff -26 Points 6
Clare Played 7 Diff -29 Points 2
London Played 7 Diff -80 Points 2
Kilkenny Played 7 Diff -137 Points 0
Then the last weekTipperary v Wicklow (Wicklow +2)
Carlow v Kilkenny (Carlow + 10)
Antrim v Waterford (Antrim + 12)
London v Clare (Clare +4)
Offaly Bye.
Leaving the final tableOffaly Played 8, Diff + 94, Points 15
Antrim Played 8, Diff + 83, Points 15
Wicklow Played 8 Diff + 57 Points 12
Tipperary Played 8, Diff +52, Points 10
Waterford Played 8 Diff -14 Points 6
Carlow Played 8 Diff -16 Points 8
Clare Played 8 Diff -25 Points 4
London Played 8 Diff -84 Points 2
Kilkenny Played 8 Diff -147 Points 0
Come on Offaly :D
Thanks Onlooker
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 03, 2008, 11:51:54 AM
Well you've more or less conceded the top spot to Antrim on the basis of the draw on Sunday night. I'd say Offaly would be happier than Antrim with that result. If we get a win in Aughrim (big If), then I would expect us to be very close to winning the division. Where do Antrim play Tipp and Waterford?
I haven't conceded it, but I think that their win in Aughrim is huge, and even if we do match that, for the reasons I laid out above ( how the fixtures fall) I full expect Antrim to be able to rack up the points they need. Iif we go into the Kilkenny match needing a win of any sort to guarantee promotion, but needing to win by 40 to top the division, as is very possibly going to be the case, I'd like to think that we wouldn't go out of our way to humiliate them by as much as possible. I abhor this system that encourages teams to pummel London and Kilkenny by as much as possible, and since promotion is what matters rather than winning the group, if we just need a win of any kind I'd definitely field a much weakened side against the Cats.
Antrim are away to Tipp and at home to Waterford. Funnily enough I still think that there is feck all between those two teams and Waterford could yet be just as much of a fly in the ointment as Tipperary are.
Check my calculations above. Which ones do you think I am way out in?
I made one mistake, I though our last game was Kilkenny, so I can see why we might have to hammer them after all - which is a pity.
It's basically down to the game in Aughrim really - there's no way I'd have us winning by four though - we'll scrape home if anything at all I'd say.
4 is scrapey enough :) What majorly worries me is that at the start of the league I'd have said there is no way we would win all 4 games in Ennis, Carlow, Belfast and Aughrim. I thought 6 points from 8 would be a good haul. Now that we've dropped a point in Casement, can we finish with 7 out of 8, which would be above my expectations, or 5, which would probably see us staying in Division 4 next year?
Gulp.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 03, 2008, 01:53:23 PM
4 is scrapey enough :) What majorly worries me is that at the start of the league I'd have said there is no way we would win all 4 games in Ennis, Carlow, Belfast and Aughrim. I thought 6 points from 8 would be a good haul. Now that we've dropped a point in Casement, can we finish with 7 out of 8, which would be above my expectations, or 5, which would probably see us staying in Division 4 next year?
Gulp.
I think the problem is that some teams were a lot weaker than we expected, which means that even though we got a good win down in Carlow, it's now looking very much like none of the top three teams in the division will drop any points to anyone except each other. Of course the problem then is that you must win at least one game in the "mini" league between those three - Antim have, and neither us nor wicklow have, so it's down to the game between OY and WW. At the start of the year you would have presumed that Clare, Carlow and maybe even Tipp would have taken some points off the other teams - now it looks like that won't happen, thus eliminating the margin for error.
Quote from: Lone Shark on March 03, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 03, 2008, 01:53:23 PM
4 is scrapey enough :) What majorly worries me is that at the start of the league I'd have said there is no way we would win all 4 games in Ennis, Carlow, Belfast and Aughrim. I thought 6 points from 8 would be a good haul. Now that we've dropped a point in Casement, can we finish with 7 out of 8, which would be above my expectations, or 5, which would probably see us staying in Division 4 next year?
Gulp.
I think the problem is that some teams were a lot weaker than we expected, which means that even though we got a good win down in Carlow, it's now looking very much like none of the top three teams in the division will drop any points to anyone except each other. Of course the problem then is that you must win at least one game in the "mini" league between those three - Antim have, and neither us nor wicklow have, so it's down to the game between OY and WW. At the start of the year you would have presumed that Clare, Carlow and maybe even Tipp would have taken some points off the other teams - now it looks like that won't happen, thus eliminating the margin for error.
Hence the Gulp.
Quote from: Lone Shark on March 03, 2008, 03:17:46 PM
I think the problem is that some teams were a lot weaker than we expected, which means that even though we got a good win down in Carlow, it's now looking very much like none of the top three teams in the division will drop any points to anyone except each other. Of course the problem then is that you must win at least one game in the "mini" league between those three -Antim have, and neither us nor wicklow have, so it's down to the game between OY and WW. At the start of the year you would have presumed that Clare, Carlow and maybe even Tipp would have taken some points off the other teams - now it looks like that won't happen, thus eliminating the margin for error.
What you say is probably not too far off. As a Carlow man i was really let down by that loss to Offaly & the way we just gave up in 2nd half. We were only 4 pts down at HT. 1st half there was nothing in that game & Offaly keeper pulled off 2 great saves to keep Offaly ahead. We lost a couple of pts at start of 2nd half & just stopped playing after that which was terrible to see.
But ruling us out of taking points from Antrim or especially Wicklow is a bit premature.
Next game for us in Belfast is huge. A win there and we are back in the frame big time. At the moment its hard to see it happen. But we will be stronger for Antrim game than we have been up to now. Mark Carpenter our no 11 is back from being sent off in the draw vs Dublin. And our top forward Simon Rea is back from injury now too. Add our captain Cashin back from injury aswell, so we've a much stronger side than what we've had so far in league.
On the downside..there was a trial arranged last night by Bealin for any players who had not committed so far(about 7 of the best players in the co), to join up. Sadly all we got was 1 of those 7 guys & 2 of the U-21s. We expected a couple more at least.
So i predict a narrow loss in Belfast on the 15th to end our promotion hopes. But not a 10 pt defeat as predicted earlier by AZ!!
QuoteBut not a 10 pt defeat as predicted earlier by AZ!!
I hope your right, but on all known form (notwithstanding the returning players) that's what it looks like to me. I hope ye beat them :D
Ok so what ye reckon the games this weekend? For me the Top 4 in Div 4 play each other.
Antrim v Carlow & Wicklow v Offaly.
Its a fact the winners of these games at weekend will be in pole position to get promotion.
It looks now like Offaly & Antrim will get to be promoted & it looks like TM cup will be Carlow & Wicklowslot this summer . Hate being in that TM cup again which nobody wants to be part of.
Unless Carlow can win in Antrim or Wicklow beat Offaly, its no qualifiers for us this year :(
I'd be hopeful, but very nervous, of the trip to Aughrim. I think it's basically a winner takes all between them, unless Carlow can shock Antrim.
Very worried, Offaly need to be winning this division, and getting into Division 3. Not only for the back door criterium, but for the opposition in Division 3, and then 2.
On form we still should be good enough to go to Aughrim and win - I thought Antrim should have been favourites in Casement, but I would consider Antrim and ourselves to be much of a muchness, so home advantage was pretty big up there. I know we've to travel again, as with all big games in this division, but even so I'd like to think that we would be four or five points better than Wicklow if we play our game. If I'm not mistaken players like Neville Coughlan and James Coughlan should be eligible for selection again which will add a few options, so without meaning to be disrespectful to Wicklow, I'll be very disappointed if we don't win. My main concern is our poor record in very tight games - I'd be worried that if we're four points the better team we'll win by four, but if we're two points better we'll concede a stupid goal and lose by a point.
Hopefully they'll have done something about the freetaking over the past couple of weeks as well - that really hit crisis point up in Belfast.
Stevecw, I admire your optimism, but I get the feeling that if ye are fourth (something that Tipp right now would contest) ye're fourth in the same way that Everton are fifth in the premiership, or Limerick are the third best football team in Munster. There's a gap there, and no O'Byrne Cup heroics would convince me that ye can take points off either Antrim or Wicklow - though for obvious reasons I really hope I'm wrong. Antrim by seven for me.
i can' t understand with the forwards offaly have why they are struggling so badly or is Roe not as good as people thought he was.
I'm not sure if our forwads are as good as all that - Niall McNamee is the real deal all right, the genuine blue chip article (though he hasn't been playing well the last couple of games) but after that it's all a bit hit and miss. Sean Ryan has been unavailable due to Birr's campaign in the hurling, Neville Coughlan is injured, James Coughlan is still a great man to know where the posts are but he disappears from games, while Thomas Deehan can look good but he is very streaky all the same.
Funnily enough Paschal Kelleghan has been the best forward of our league campaign so far, and I thought his best days were behind him - but he has stepped up and played some great games.
Pat Roe didn't have a good year one, but if he gets us out of this division and we get a couple of wins in the championship this summer he'll have earned another shot in my eyes anyway.
Agree with your summary LS, especially re. Roe. Last year wasn't helped by a general apathy and lax approach by the players, and I don't think Roe managed to jolt them out of it. This year, apparently, there is a renewed hunger around the place, probably epitomised by Pascal Kellaghan's good form, and hopefully that will be translated into promotion and at least a win over Longford/Westmeath in the championship.
Ok well this weekend really put Carlow and especially Wicklow in their place. We are div 4 sides & no point pretending anything else. I was pretty hopeful of a win heading up to Belfast on sat. The team that was picked was very wrong in my opinion, no point going into it here as nobody would understand. At half time it was 7-4 for Ant, after they had the strong wind in 1st half, we were hanging in there without playing well. So at that stage it looked ok, with wind behind us we felt we could win. 2nd half was hard to believe how bad we played. Gave away possession non-stop, kicked easy chances wide, only got 3 more scores (all from frees) & Antrim without having to play anyway well got an easy 6 point win.
Was hard to stomach, we brought a big crowd up expecting better, but the team didnt play at all. Antrim were very average & were there for the taking, but we were so poor we hadnt a chance.
I see Wicklow got destroyed at home to Offaly aswell. Another county that expected a bit too much from this league.
Only good part of weekend was our U21s getting to Leinster semi for the 1st time in 24 years with a great win v Offaly. 9-2 down after 20 mins, and came back to win 1-11 to 0-13! Thanks mainly to an unbelievable save by our keeper in injury time.
As bad as seniors are, at least with minors reaching Leinster final last year & the 21s including a few of that minor side reaching a semi this year. The future might be better for us, well cant be much worse than what went before anyway!!
Those Offaly b*stards. Building my hopes up like this.
I was unfortunate enough to be in Tullamore at the hurling, and when the score came through from Aughrim I couldn't believe it. I was hoping/expecting a 3 or 4 point win, but when I heard 3-15 to 1-06 I thought, feck, that's the sort of scoreline a top team would put up down there. Aughrim has always been a tough place to go.
With the results at the weekend, you would have to expect Antrim and Offaly to go up, and also to contest the 'final', but I would still like Offaly to continue with the momentum and take care of business against Waterford, Kilkenny and Clare.
Current Standings
| Team | Played | Won | Drew | Lost | Points Difference | Points |
| Offaly | 5 | 4 | 1 | 0 | +61 | 9 |
| Antrim | 5 | 4 | 1 | 0 | +49 | 9 |
| Tipperary | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | +45 | 6 |
| Waterford | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | +19 | 6 |
| Wicklow | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | +21 | 4 |
| Carlow | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | -14 | 4 |
| Clare | 5 | 1 | 0 | 4 | -3 | 2 |
| London | 4 | 0 | 0 | 4 | -63 | 0 |
| Kilkenny | 5 | 0 | 0 | 5 | -115 | 0 |
You would have to think that it's more or less all over bar the shouting for Offaly and Antrim, unless there's any calamitous slip up (not beyond Offaly :D), and the Faithful's big wins in Carlow and Aughrim are looking good at the moment to give them an edge over Antrim, especially with a home game against Kilkenny to come.
This week's Division 4 fixtures sees Tipperary travel to Carlow in a match that would have been put down as a Carlow win before the season started, in all likelihodd, but Carlow seem to have their problems, while Tipp have turned in a few decent performances including holding Offaly to 4 points in Tullamore, although their wins have been against the 7th, 8th and 9th teams in the division. Carlow's 6 point defeat in Belfast is not a shocking result, and you could see a close game developing. I'm going to give a hesitant nod to Tipp, purely on momentum.
The second game sees Waterford travel to Tullamore to take on Offaly. Offaly were, by all accounts, very impressive against Wicklow, but were lucky to get out of Casement Park with a draw, while Carlow only faded badly in the second half. The Tipperary game was a wake up call, and the Antrim result meant they had to beat Wicklow, which in fairness they did very well. Waterford have also beaten the bottom three, and were turned over by Wicklow in Dungarvan, so it's hard to see anything other than a comprehensive Offaly win, depending on how they approach the game.
Also on the card is a trip to Ruislip for Antrim. London are pointless in the league, and have shipped heavy defeats to Offaly, Carlow, Tipperary and Waterford. Their previous home game saw a seven point defeat to Carlow, and again, depending on Antrim's focus for this game, you should expect to see a mid-high teens win for the Saffrons.
The final game of the weekend is in Ennis as two disappointing teams lock horns with Micko taking his tourbus to Clare. Wicklow should be better than they are, but the same could be levelled at Clare. Both sides will be severly disheartened following their games so far, especially Clare who have lost at home to Carlow and Antrim. Wicklow will be gutted by a 15 point loss to Offaly, so it will be interesting to see who can lift themselves most for this. With Micko in charge, you would have to assume Wicklow will be keen to bounce back, so I'll go for a close Wicklow win, maybe 3 or 4 points.
Not beyond Antrim for a mess up either - think TM cup final last year...
Antrim against Tipperary in Tipperary will be the decider for second place. If Offaly haven't played Kilkenny yet then the score difference is basically untouchable.
Hard to know what Tipperary are like. When teams struggle to put away other perceived weaker teams(like Offaly against Tipperary) then they would tend to look at themselves and not account for the fact that the other team may have improved / be a lot better than anticipated. Antrim may get it tight enough there.
AZ what happens to first and second? Obviously both promoted but is there any form of playoff?
Yeah, there's a Division 4 League Final to be played a a neutral ground. I would assume that, barring other divisional finals messing it up or causing double headers, Offaly and Antrim (if it is those two) would be in Navan. I think they are slated for the weekend of the 26th/27th of April. A Saturday evening in Navan would be nice, but of course both teams have to keep going before that would happen.
Depends on how Tipp get on between now and the end of the season. Carlow and Wicklow away will test them, as will the game against Antrim in Tipp. I'd say Antrim are safe enough, even if they 'only' draw in Ardfinnan. A loss there would obviously throw the cat among the pigeons, but even with that, Tipp would have to go unbeaten to the end, and that won't be easy.
Right enough it's hard to know what Tipp will do against Wicklow. Very surprised to see Wicklow get such a hammering by you guys and be interesting to see if they have just capitulated. Getting beat by Antrim would have been a huge blow to them.
Having said that I've a funny feeling that had McManus been on the full game against Antrim the outcome would have been different - very different. You're, no offense, no world beaters but you have a few forwards (the 14 - Deighan I think? - that day plus obviously McNamee) who,on their day, are capable of wiping out teams at this level of football.
Put it like this, we're no world beaters, but have the potential to be at least the match of the likes of Monaghan, Laois, Fermanagh, Sligo, etc etc. Our backs are not that bad actually, especially when we get Karol Slattery back as well.
I would take Monaghan out of that but would maybe agree you, potentially, could be up there with the rest. Realistically you are playing below yourselves. Why this has happened I don't know.
I would hope / think we could beat Cavan in the championship too. However the full back line remains dodgy yet and Seanie Johnston could kill us in there! Hopefully with the remainder of the league - and hopefully a league final against yourselves - we could resolve that. Your FF line would be a very good test pre championship as I would expect it to be a bit better than Cavan's.
This weekend in Div 4, u can be sure Offaly & Antrim will win easily. They already are the 2 sides promoted. Its been a poor effort by the rest of us. Clare fancied their chances after winning the McGrath Cup...but lost all games except Kilk.
Carlow we thought we were well on course...beating Wex away, drawing in parnell pk with the Dubs....in 1st game of league beatin Clare away by 5 pts....we thought we were flying!
Reality hit us when Offaly came to Carlow and bet us by 20pts or so. Ok we went & won in London, but last game was shocking poor effort in Belfast going down by 6 points to Antrim. Since then a few of our better players have walked off the panel...same as every year in Carlow.
Hate doing it against my own county, but i was lookin at the odds for games at wkend. They have Cw 5/6 v Tipp 6/5. Im lumping on Tipp knowing what i do about the fall outs in Carlow. And most of the most talented guys in Cw are playing Leinster U-21 semi in Newbridge this weekend too. The 6/5 is guarenteed money!
Carlow U-21s are in leinster semi 4 1st time in 24 years, thats building on minor side who got to leinster final last year. Future looks good 4 Carlow, but this Sunday, no Tipp will win, i guarentee you that.
Sorry, back in Div 4...Antrim are sure of a win too.this wkend..so its Off, Ant promoted & into Qualifiers too.
Quote from: stevecw on March 26, 2008, 10:45:09 PM
This weekend in Div 4, u can be sure Offaly & Antrim will win easily. Carlow U-21s are in leinster semi 4 1st time in 24 years, thats building on minor side who got to leinster final last year. Futur
Sorry, back in Div 4...Antrim are sure of a win too.this wkend..so its Off, Ant promoted & into Qualifiers too.
lets hope so!
Quote from: stevecw on March 26, 2008, 10:45:09 PM
This weekend in Div 4, u can be sure Offaly & Antrim will win easily. They already are the 2 sides promoted. Its been a poor effort by the rest of us. Clare fancied their chances after winning the McGrath Cup...but lost all games except Kilk.
Carlow we thought we were well on course...beating Wex away, drawing in parnell pk with the Dubs....in 1st game of league beatin Clare away by 5 pts....we thought we were flying!
Reality hit us when Offaly came to Carlow and bet us by 20pts or so. Ok we went & won in London, but last game was shocking poor effort in Belfast going down by 6 points to Antrim. Since then a few of our better players have walked off the panel...same as every year in Carlow.
Hate doing it against my own county, but i was lookin at the odds for games at wkend. They have Cw 5/6 v Tipp 6/5. Im lumping on Tipp knowing what i do about the fall outs in Carlow. And most of the most talented guys in Cw are playing Leinster U-21 semi in Newbridge this weekend too. The 6/5 is guarenteed money!
Carlow U-21s are in leinster semi 4 1st time in 24 years, thats building on minor side who got to leinster final last year. Future looks good 4 Carlow, but this Sunday, no Tipp will win, i guarentee you that.
Sorry, back in Div 4...Antrim are sure of a win too.this wkend..so its Off, Ant promoted & into Qualifiers too.
What do you mean by that? We're going to win the Leinster title :D
Quote
Hate doing it against my own county, but i was lookin at the odds for games at wkend. They have Cw 5/6 v Tipp 6/5. Im lumping on Tipp knowing what i do about the fall outs in Carlow. And most of the most talented guys in Cw are playing Leinster U-21 semi in Newbridge this weekend too. The 6/5 is guarenteed money!
Betting on sport is a bitch isn't it? Lost a few pound over the years on 'sure' things aswell.
Stevecw or anyone at this game? Across the four divisions I think this was the closest one at full-time - CW shading it by just a point. What way did this game pan out? Would have expected a Tipp victory myself. Did the goals come in close succession? Who played well for both sides?
Quote from: hardstation on March 30, 2008, 04:59:27 PM
Londain 0-05 3-19 Aontroim
Ceatharlach 1-10 1-09 Tiobraid Arann
Uibh Fhaili 0-13 1-08 Port Lairge
An Clar 0-11 0-08 Cill Mhantain
Solid win for Antrim, as expected and sees them top the table. Offaly still have to hammer Kilkenny but I hear that Antrim have offered Kilkenny 5 free entries into the Saffron Sweep, if they fail to field in that game.
Tipp's chance of promotion blown out of the water today.
Offaly ran very close by Waterford. Anyone there? Offaly bad/Waterford good?
Wicklow still wick.
Well that was fairly wicked. I wasn't at the game, so hopefully LS will fill us in. Jaysus Offaly are so unpredictable it's just a joke. Kilkenny will probably beat them.
Antrim seemed to have found their ruthless streak in Ruislip, while Wicklow seem to have given up the ghost. Great win for Antrim in Carlow. Sorry I mean for Carlow in Carlow, but basically that takes most of the pressure of Antrim's trip to Tipp now. Must look at the fixtures and standings now, but is that it mathematically over now? I think Offaly and Antrim are both on 11 points, with the nearest challengers on 6? Although I think some teams have 3 games to go.
Not a lot to say - same as the Tipp match, Offaly were absolutely brutal, looked like they were fulfilling a fixture and no more. The match was 3-3 with about 7 or 8 minutes to go to half time and then we hit a good spell, going in 8-3 up. This only reinforced the complacency and Waterford chipped back into it. You could tell they were going to get a goal at some stage, so thankfully it came on 59 minutes and not on 69. That drew them level, and McManus promptly won the kickout, drove on, got fouled and banged over the free from 50m out. He then won the next kickout as well only for a bad wide to result.
I never thought we wouldn't win, and on the one hand I suppose after so much pressure on the last match when they delivered spectacularly it's hard to be too critical, but by God it was poor stuff. Westmeath or Longford would have ate us alive on that display.
I don't think we'll lose to Kilkenny next week somehow, but God knows what'll happen. I'd like to think we won't go chasing ten goals or anything like that. The biggest advantage Kilkenny hurlers have is the absence of football in the county - I'd be all for letting them run us close to give football in Kilkenny a real boost. :D
Quote from: Zulu on March 30, 2008, 05:17:04 PM
Quote
Hate doing it against my own county, but i was lookin at the odds for games at wkend. They have Cw 5/6 v Tipp 6/5. Im lumping on Tipp knowing what i do about the fall outs in Carlow. And most of the most talented guys in Cw are playing Leinster U-21 semi in Newbridge this weekend too. The 6/5 is guarenteed money!
Betting on sport is a bitch isn't it? Lost a few pound over the years on 'sure' things aswell.
Thank God when it came to it, i couldn't bring myself to bet against my county. A 2nd reason for me to enjoy yesterdays win!
Honestly didn't expect us to win that game. Tipp were still well in the hunt for promotion, seemed to be flying. Last couple of Carlow games that mattered v Offaly & Antrim were shocking performances where we just gave up when things started to go wrong.
But yesterday the heart & battling was back in the side.
To answer Laoisgaa, the Tipp goal came early. We were 1-1 to 0-1 down. Still a point behind at half time. Got Mark Carpenter sent off with a straight red early in 2nd half. Looked bad at that stage. A couple of good changes, made a big difference. Pat Walsh got thru for a goal which put up ahead. It was point for point after that. Tipp lost a man to a 2nd yellow. With 3 mins to go Tipp were a point up, but Carlow captain Paul Cashin who had a stormer burst forward and won us a free to level it up. then in last min a sub Broderick was put clean thru on goal and he was taken down by a horrible tackle around his neck. The Tipp guy rightly got sent off & we tapped over the free to win it.
Big win to get us back on track. Waterford home, Wicklow away & Killkenny home is whats left. 4 wins in a row to bring into championship wouldnt be a bad league. 12 points, compared to last years 2 would be good progress.
Anyone at Carlow/Wicklow today? Good match? Wondering what Wicklow are like especially as they could end up facing Laois in the Championship in our opener in Leinster.
Are Tipp promoted?
Waterford doing Tipp a favour. What a bittersweet win
What a turn around in Div. 4 today. You would have got long odds indeed on Tipperary winning promotion ahead of Antrim before today's games and those odds would have increased bigtime, when Tipp had a player sent off after 5 minutes. Despite losing their leading scorer Tipp came from a point behind to lead by 5 points at half time. The extra man began to tell midway through the second half and Wicklow cut the lead to two points and news spread that Waterford were leading Antrim in Casement Park. The realisiation that a Waterford win was a real possibility helped to inspire the 14 man home team to hold out for a 2 point victory. Tipp's satisfaction at a fine win against the odds turned to sheer joy a minute or two later when the result from Belfast was confirmed. Promotion to Div. 3 and with it entry to the qualifiers was a huge prize for Tipp and all the sweeter because it came against the odds. With 6 Under 21 players on the starting 15, things are looking up for Tipperary. Thanks Hardstation for your generous comment and fair play to Waterford for their win.
I really don't know whether i'm more shocked at Monaghan missing out or Antrim missing out! A bad day.
Congratulations on a fine league to tipperary.
Any chance of coaxing declan browne out for another year or two to compliment grogan?
Also happy to see waterford stirring out after so long a sleep.Maybe Tipp will give the big 2 a game of it in the championship.
The main thing to remember is that it was a longshot for the promotion,but they played hard and well to win just in case,well done again.
Fair play to Tipp, especially given that young fell passed away. Fair play.
As for Antrim--just think if we had of held on against Offaly we would be promoted--bad times
I can't believe that. That's twice now Waterford have gotten great results against promotion chasing ulster teams after their unlikely win against Cavan a couple of years ago. Antrim really will have to be kicking themselves, but fair play to Tipperary, they hung in there, they beat Antrim, and they deserve to go up as the results panned out. Credit to Onlooker who kept the faith here when everyone, myself included, were more or less assuming it would be Offaly and Antrim.
Puts a whole new spin on the League Final now, and I assume it will be in Portlaoise, maybe as a double header with the Dublin Westmeath game?
Well done to Offaly, and Tipp, in getting out of the basement. Hopefully they will both legitimise it by having decent summers.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 21, 2008, 10:05:00 AM
Puts a whole new spin on the League Final now, and I assume it will be in Portlaoise, maybe as a double header with the Dublin Westmeath game?
With all the loyal Munster fans in Tipp (and Offaly ::) ), that game will be on Saturday - probably as a double bill with Div 1
True Hound. Forgot about that clash. Kerry Derry, Offaly Tipperary. Would that be Portlaoise as well? Dublin Westmeath would then be where? Portlaoise on Sunday?
I would assume Dublin vs Westmeath would double up with Fermanagh vs Wexford in Navan. It would be the obvious venue for that anyway.
I was half hoping they play our fixture alongside the minor footballers in Carlow. God knows Derry and Kerry would be a lot better advised to toss for home advantage in my opinion. A Saturday night in either Celtic Park or Austin Stack park would get 8,000 - this will barely get 3,000 from those two counties, and we'll be feck all better.
Will Dublin and Westmeath not fill Navan itself? I'd have thought Potlaoise would be better for that. Surely the Dubs will bring a good crowd, and Westmeath will now too.
Quote from: Hound on April 21, 2008, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 21, 2008, 10:05:00 AM
Puts a whole new spin on the League Final now, and I assume it will be in Portlaoise, maybe as a double header with the Dublin Westmeath game?
With all the loyal Munster fans in Tipp (and Offaly ::) ), that game will be on Saturday - probably as a double bill with Div 1
There are a good few Munster fans in Tipperary all right, but very few of them would have ever seen the Tipperary footballers play, and I do not think that the rugby match would make any difference to the number of Tipp fans that would attend the League Final. The real prize in Div. 4 was promotion to Div. 3 and the right to play in the qualifiers. Thankfully, both Tipp and Offaly have achieved their goal in this year's NFL.
Possibly - is Navan's capacity not more or less the same as that of Portlaoise though? I always thought it was much of a muchness. I'm very much open to correction on that.
I can't imagine that Wexford vs Fermanagh would bring much by way of extras - again it's a long spin for either of those teams no matter where you put that game.
Maybe it is. I always assumed Portlaoise was bigger, maybe it's because of the more completed look, with proper terraces all around. Anyone know the relative capacities?
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 21, 2008, 11:01:19 AM
....... the more completed look, with proper terraces all around............
Grass is a terrace. Let's not reopen that can of worms. :P
Final is in Portlaoise on Sunday at 2.
Well done to Tipp on getting to this final. Can't believe Antrim messed up like they did. I wasn't impressed with them the day we played them in Belfast, but then again even our joke of a team managed to beat Tipp a few weeks ago. The best team in Div 4 apart from Offaly that i've seen was Waterford. They came to Carlow, beat us fairly by 7 pts, a big strong side, well able to kick points. To me they looked a better team than Antrim, but to be honest Tipp looked worse than both..but fair play to them they end up getting the results & promotion.
To sum up the standard in Division 4 is very poor and the bottom two apart, it is also very even. Results are all over the place, Tipp get promoted but in doing so lose to Carlow, Clare lose to nearly everyone but still beat Offaly, Antrim lose to Waterford and Tipp but yet draw with Offaly etc etc. At least next year no matter how we all do in the bottom div, we get a crack at qualifiers in summer 2009, the way it shud be.