AISF Mayo v Dublin

[Hardy]

Seriously, lads. Do you really believe this stuff? That referees go out with plans to screw teams, even to such Machiavellian extents as to play the statistics by giving teams frees in their own half so that it looks legit? Who organises these conspiracies? Where are the brown envelopes handed over, now that Conways is closed? Seriously like?

[From the Bunker]

I have no argument with Dublin playing their games in Croker for the league. My only problem is them getting earlier round games in the Leinster Championship. I have no problem with Leinster final, Quarter final, semi final and final being in Croker. That's where they should be played. I know Dublin have no say in this and in fairness they are not going to protest against such an advantage. Look it is an advantage. A small one against a team with a bit more Croke park experience like Mayo, but still an advantage. So please don't say it's not a home game. Because it is, and that's just the way things are set up! It's not a dig at Dublin, just stating the obvious.

Joe Mc Quillan gave you 50% more frees then he gave us in the 2013 final and you still couldn't beat us. Statistics as always cut through the bullshit. It's not our fault your management couldn't see we only had 13 players for the last 10 minutes.......

Why don't you suck it up and stop making excuses for yourself. You're either good enough to beat us or you're not. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you do beat us but let's leave the excuses aside.
Don't let's raise that old chestnut again. Dublin have been winning All Irelands for well over a century and I would guess that most of their games over that period were played outside Dublin. For instance Dublin were Leinster champions between 1974 and 1979 and most of their games were played outside Dublin so there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Dublin's opponents would be any more successful if they played the Dubs out of Croker.

It seems to me that raising the argument that Dublin have some sort of unfair advantage playing in Croker is simply making excuses in advance for what might happen in the game. It's not a great frame of mind to have going into a game with the Mighty Dubs.

Nonsense of the highest order. There is a difference between reasons and excuses as I ve pointed out before.
In spite of the bravado that some other Mayo posters might present the 'home' advantage for the Dubs is massive. You only have to look at other comparable sports to see the advantage. In European rugby Munster and Leinster would be looking for a home game for the knockout stages. Did either win the thing by going away for quarters and semis? It's a huge advantage and a bridge too far because we are not that much better than Dublin to make that up.

The other thing is the shafting we usually get at this stage. I dunno who the ref will be but I suspect he ll be a homer as bad as Cormac Reilly was last year. In 06 we were the better side and managed to prevail in spite of Whelan taking McGarrity out from 'the neck down' and dodging around with blood subs after. I have no faith in the set up tbh.

Joe Mc Quillan gave you 50% more frees then he gave us in the 2013 final and you still couldn't beat us.  It's not our fault your management couldn't see we only had 13 players for the last 10 minutes.......

You're either good enough to beat us or you're not. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you do beat us but let's leave the excuses aside.

Mayo have been making excuses for 50 years now.

Sheesh. Don t give me the frees stats! Been there. Joe and his mates know how to get a result.
50% more frees because ye fouled 50% more perhaps?
As well as that most 'good' refs know exactly when and where to give frees a free close to your own goal when you want to counter fast is an advantage to the opposition. A few softies for likes of Bernard or Gooch close to opposition goal is what a 'good ref is talking about. I could write a book about it, and not just talking about CP football. Happens every level and with kids too unfortunately. Very easy to rig a game as Cormac Reilly showed last year in Limerick.

Moy, you are over stepping the mark there. Dublin beat us fair and square in 2013. Referee had little or nothing to do with it. I left that game disappointed but in no way bitter. I was more angry at COC kicking a point at the end. One more play or not, goal should have been the only option and i felt he was trying to pass the book to McQ. To compare that game to the Cormac Reilly farce last year is stretching the paranoia a bit too far. Reilly did us on everything from us getting third man tackled, to not sending off players, to giving soft frees and penalties, to make us use a Blood sub as a sub, to player getting dragged and pulled with no free. It was the greatest free for all Kerry ever had in their Inter-county history. Of course Kerry were looked upon as cute hoars. But feck me it was easy to look cute when you main allay is the man supposed to be controlling the match.

[Mayo4Sam14]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

[moysider]

I have no argument with Dublin playing their games in Croker for the league. My only problem is them getting earlier round games in the Leinster Championship. I have no problem with Leinster final, Quarter final, semi final and final being in Croker. That's where they should be played. I know Dublin have no say in this and in fairness they are not going to protest against such an advantage. Look it is an advantage. A small one against a team with a bit more Croke park experience like Mayo, but still an advantage. So please don't say it's not a home game. Because it is, and that's just the way things are set up! It's not a dig at Dublin, just stating the obvious.

Joe Mc Quillan gave you 50% more frees then he gave us in the 2013 final and you still couldn't beat us. Statistics as always cut through the bullshit. It's not our fault your management couldn't see we only had 13 players for the last 10 minutes.......

Why don't you suck it up and stop making excuses for yourself. You're either good enough to beat us or you're not. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you do beat us but let's leave the excuses aside.
Don't let's raise that old chestnut again. Dublin have been winning All Irelands for well over a century and I would guess that most of their games over that period were played outside Dublin. For instance Dublin were Leinster champions between 1974 and 1979 and most of their games were played outside Dublin so there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Dublin's opponents would be any more successful if they played the Dubs out of Croker.

It seems to me that raising the argument that Dublin have some sort of unfair advantage playing in Croker is simply making excuses in advance for what might happen in the game. It's not a great frame of mind to have going into a game with the Mighty Dubs.

Nonsense of the highest order. There is a difference between reasons and excuses as I ve pointed out before.
In spite of the bravado that some other Mayo posters might present the 'home' advantage for the Dubs is massive. You only have to look at other comparable sports to see the advantage. In European rugby Munster and Leinster would be looking for a home game for the knockout stages. Did either win the thing by going away for quarters and semis? It's a huge advantage and a bridge too far because we are not that much better than Dublin to make that up.

The other thing is the shafting we usually get at this stage. I dunno who the ref will be but I suspect he ll be a homer as bad as Cormac Reilly was last year. In 06 we were the better side and managed to prevail in spite of Whelan taking McGarrity out from 'the neck down' and dodging around with blood subs after. I have no faith in the set up tbh.

Joe Mc Quillan gave you 50% more frees then he gave us in the 2013 final and you still couldn't beat us.  It's not our fault your management couldn't see we only had 13 players for the last 10 minutes.......

You're either good enough to beat us or you're not. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you do beat us but let's leave the excuses aside.

Mayo have been making excuses for 50 years now.

Sheesh. Don t give me the frees stats! Been there. Joe and his mates know how to get a result.
50% more frees because ye fouled 50% more perhaps?
As well as that most 'good' refs know exactly when and where to give frees a free close to your own goal when you want to counter fast is an advantage to the opposition. A few softies for likes of Bernard or Gooch close to opposition goal is what a 'good ref is talking about. I could write a book about it, and not just talking about CP football. Happens every level and with kids too unfortunately. Very easy to rig a game as Cormac Reilly showed last year in Limerick.

Moy, you are over stepping the mark there. Dublin beat us fair and square in 2013. Referee had little or nothing to do with it. I left that game disappointed but in no way bitter. I was more angry at COC kicking a point at the end. One more play or not, goal should have been the only option and i felt he was trying to pass the book to McQ. To compare that game to the Cormac Reilly farce last year is stretching the paranoia a bit too far. Reilly did us on everything from us getting third man tackled, to not sending off players, to giving soft frees and penalties, to make us use a Blood sub as a sub, to player getting dragged and pulled with no free. It was the greatest free for all Kerry ever had in their Inter-county history. Of course Kerry were looked upon as cute hoars. But feck me it was easy to look cute when you main allay is the man supposed to be controlling the match.

So, you re agreeing with me fundamentally really.
Didn t mean to compare McQuillan with Reilly as such. Just saying free count does not always show what was going on. 50% more frees should indicate that one team committed 50% more frees. It would be interesting to see where those frees were awarded and who benefited from those frees being awarded. It's not rocket science for any coach to get players to foul!

Like if I was preparing a team to play Mayo I would expect them to 'stop' likes of Higgins, Boyle, Keegan's runs as early as possible where a free cant hurt and the defence can reorganise in the delay. Fellas can do that without fear of a card for a couple of offences and when they do take a card somebody else can do the same.
It's the soft inside stuff that likes of Kerry get on the other hand that annoys. The 'penalty' that O Donoghue was awarded in first Munster final not only had a bearing on Cork's year, management etc, It changed the whole complection of the championship.

[moysider]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

[Mayo4Sam14]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

Because they are actually home games, this is technically a neutral venue and there's big distances between most of them places this is also a one off game

[moysider]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

Because they are actually home games, this is technically a neutral venue and there's big distances between most of them places this is also a one off game

Technically?

It's a home game for the Dublin lads. They sleep at home, eat what they want, and no slobbering with travel and hotel rooms. You never sleep well in hotels - especially if you have to perform the next day. It's a one off game but stacked against travelling team.

[Mayo4Sam14]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

Because they are actually home games, this is technically a neutral venue and there's big distances between most of them places this is also a one off game

Technically?

It's a home game for the Dublin lads. They sleep at home, eat what they want, and no slobbering with travel and hotel rooms. You never sleep well in hotels - especially if you have to perform the next day. It's a one off game but stacked against travelling team.

As in its officially a neutral venue therefore equal ticket allocation etc

[Mayo4Sam14]

They're done it plenty Times before

[The Hill is Blue]

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

Comparing the world of the GAA with international Rugby or Premiership soccer is spurious. Every GAA player worth his salt wants to be in Croke Park and none of them would regard Croke Park as Dublin's "home ground". For instance, in the early '90s teams from Ulster came to Croker and beat the Dubs on the big day year after year, as have Kerry, Meath and others over the years.

When teams did get hung up about Croker being an advantage to Dublin it often resulted in a sad ending for them. The best example of this phenomenon was the 1983 All Ireland Semi Final when Barney Rock pick-pocketed a draw against Cork. The reply was set for Cork and Cork supporters (and probably the Cork team) felt that the replay would be just a formality. Of course as we know Cork were whipped in the replay.

As recently as the 2015 League we can see where expectations were raised when Dublin had to play away, and home supporters anticipated a home win. It didn't always work out that way as we saw in Castlebar and Clones.

[Zulu]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

That's nonsense in fairness. I hope some Mayo fans are just doing a bit of friendly ribbing and don't actually believe any of that. Mayo have one of country's best teams and should embrace the fact you'll be involved in probably the best sporting occasion in Ireland this year. The result will simply come down to who performs on the day.

[Syferus]

I see the Dublin Defending-the-Indefensible Force is out again. Trying to convince supporters of a county of their sins or inherent advantages here is like shouting at a brick wall sometimes.

Croke Park is a big advantage to Dublin, particularly in the AI series where crowds swell. There is no more that needs to be said on that one.

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

Lads would ye rather stay at home all the time or like to get on the open road for a holiday ?

[The Hill is Blue]

I see the Dublin Defending-the-Indefensible Force is out again. Trying to convince supporters of a county of their sins or inherent advantages here is like shouting at a brick wall sometimes.

Croke Park is a big advantage to Dublin, particularly in the AI series where crowds swell. There is no more that needs to be said on that one.

It's interesting though that this argument always seems to come from counties whose teams underachieve. You don't ever hear it from the likes of Kerry or Meath or Tyrone or Armagh.

It didn't do Roscommon's cause much good to have Dublin out of Croke Park for the 2014 U21 Final.

[Dinny Breen]

Can someone please explain why Dublin's 'home advantage' is such a massive factor and how it is actually going to affect the final score? Where else are they supposed to hold it like? All Ireland Semi Finals are meant for Croker, no matter whos playing (especially when it will most likely sell out)

Is Thomond Park not an advantage for Muster against top teams?

Is the Aviva more likely to get a Leinster win v likes of Clermont than playing in France.

Look at any premiership team's points at home in a season in comparison to away points?

Where are the All Blacks more likely to beat SA (when they are on a par) Christchurch or Jo'burg?

Ffs if Manchester United could only play every European game in Old Trafford they would have won a bit more too.

It's a no-brainer.

The sickening thing is that we were sent to Limerick for a non-Dublin game. Limerick was a home game de facto for Kerry with a rig referee to boot.

That's nonsense in fairness. I hope some Mayo fans are just doing a bit of friendly ribbing and don't actually believe any of that. Mayo have one of country's best teams and should embrace the fact you'll be involved in probably the best sporting occasion in Ireland this year. The result will simply come down to who performs on the day.

Aghh!! Zulu great poster but cliche 101, up there with the hungriest team team etc.. What if both teams perform?

CP is Dublin's home ground, it is an advantage, a small margin but small margins add up. Physically it's an advantage to sleep in your own bed. Mentally routine is everything, familiarity eases stress, from your own bed, to your own dressing room, your routine at home never changes.  Even tactically, whether it's something as simple as playing into the hill, familiarity with how the wind or rain affects play in CP, even kicking the ball out and judging the width against the perception that the stands make the pitch look wider. It a game that could be tight it's the small margins that make the difference.

Statistically I would love to see Dublin's win/loss record in CP since they moved there full-time 4/5 years ago compared to the previous 5 years. 2 AI and 3 NFL titles won indicate they don't lose many....