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Meanwhile back at the ranch...

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/04/27/news/planning-procedures-usurped-by-an-agreement-reached-for-the-redevelopment-of-casement-court-hears-2653080/

[historic dna embedded unionist privilege]

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

Eh?

[IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.]

Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

Try that again...

When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh

The FAI played a blinder here. 4 or 5 games in Dublin at zero cost and zero effort. Can the GAA step up and get a stadium rammed home for the IFA?

Tbf, the FAI didn't really "do" anything, they had this handed to them by the Englsih FA and all they had to do was pledge their vote and shake a few hands in Switzerland.

Indeed they're not even providing a stadium, like eg the EFA/Wembley or SFA/Hampdenseeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

[Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.]

Antrim might need to be using the Stadium while that Euro soccerball thingy is on.
Croke Park will be hitting into peak usage then too.

Are we sure Croker will be involved? You can't have 2 stadia in the one city unless one is the final venue.

That is the normal arrangement.

Generally each venue gets to host 3 or 4 group games, plus maybe a knockout game. It may be different in 2028 because there will be 32 teams, but rather than allow two stadia in one city, I suspect they'll just extend it to more cities.

If so, then politics (both big and small "p") will likely determine where the games are played. England will demand -and get - the Lion's share (sorry), since it is really "their" bid. (Remember, they really only roped the other four in in order to get extra votes at UEFA). Plus England has plenty of big two-club soccer cities, like Manchester, Liverpool and London etc, all with big, modern stadia. On top of which the UK government will be stumping up serious dosh, and there are far more votes for them in England than Scotland. Wales and NI.

Meanwhile, unless the Dail writes a huge cheque, I suspect Dublin will be told it's one venue, i.e. the AVIVA, esp if NI were staging games at a new Casement.

And the FAI should be happy enough with that, since they'd rather any extra Irish government money going was spent meeting other soccer needs, rather than more going into the coffers of the GAA/Croke.

But we'll see.

I could probably answer this as there are three situations that come to mind.

I have been in Larne (have family there) and I have been into a Rangers supporters club with flags, pictures etc. They knew we were catholic and it certainly helped they knew my uncle but if that had not been the case we wouldn't have been welcomed in they made that quite clear at one point.

On another occasion, I have never been in the place but I use to live across the road from a Rangers supporters club. A protestant girl was having a 21st birthday and her friend was catholic and I think she was the same age went to the party. The men in the club beat the shit out of the girl when they found out she was catholic - I think they found out by her surname or knew of her.

You can't tarnish everyone with the same brush. However, based on my experiences I would have to say I could probably go into a pub that is staunchly unionist but I definitely wouldn't feel welcome or would want to stay even with a friend present.   

I have been to catholic places with protestant mates and from experience no trouble whatsoever. My best friend is a protestant and we have gone to a few GAA games again no problems there.

Thank you for your answer. But with respect, a self-appointed supporters club (in this case Glasgow Rangers) is not the same as an official member club, which will be subject to the rules and disciplinary measures of the governing body, whether IFA, SFA or GAA etc.

I myself have been at an NI away game and upon stepping into a bar, heard "party tunes" being sung from within, at which point me any my mates turned on our heels and found another bar, the point being that there was no such repetition of that carry-on at the match the next day.

As for the rest of your post, sadly the bitterness and bigotry you describe is all too common, even now, and must be roundly deplored in all quarters, without reservation or qualification.

A quick glance through your old posts suggests you have no qualms about discussing things that actually are unrelated to the thread. You've discussed the A5 road project in a thread specifically about Casement Park. You've discussed your thoughts on Hunger Strike in a thread specifically about attitudes of people in the south to the north. In a thread about GAA finances, you discussed soccer broadcasting. In a thread about potentially merging the LGFA and Camogie associations into the GAA, you discussed such a wide range of topics as offensive chanting and even the history of the Swastika.

So yeah, you're very particular about keeping threads on topic aren't you?

In fact, in a thread about East Belfast GAA, you were more than keen to discuss ni soccer and Winsdor park and GSTQ.

But in a discussion about political commemorations in GAA grounds, you simply point blank refuse to discuss such commemorations in soccer grounds, because it it's not the subject of the thread?

Away and cop yourself on and stop being a coward.

EDIT:

Besides, if, as you keep insisting, you cant bring yourself to discuss soccer/windsor park here because, in your words, "This thread is about the GAA reaching out to Unionists" and that "if I want to discuss the IFA" then I should "start another thread", then why do you simultaneously ask about how UVF memorials in soccer grounds would go down among nationalists? Are we allowed to discuss commemorations by by IFA/soccer clubs or not? Make your mind up!

Ok, since you clearly will not answer a simple question, I am forced to deduce that you are foresquare behind the erection of this memorial and the ceremony which went with it etc, and you don't care if it alienates Unionists from participating in the GAA, including its outreach programme.

Fine - your organisation, your choice.

As a soccer fan who firmly believes in "Sport For All", I shall just have to console  myself with the knowledge that while we'll always attract eg "your" Pat Jennings, you'll never attract "our" George Best.

Oh well.

P.S. You might want to change your User Name, since your "chat" isn't so "snappy". 

I would not partake (personal choice)

Only those who actively actively partook in you know what, their supporters and their apologists, a sizable majority in the context of the oppression otherwise it wouldn't have been possible

I'm sorry, it may be me, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.

The GAA would be well advised to try and build bridges while also being careful not to alienate their longstanding base, there is always room for outreach, it works both ways

Fair enough, except that when it comes to the crunch, building such memorials is incompatible with building bridges. That is, you may have the former, but you won't have the latter. Meaning there's a choice to be made.

(I won't tell you what that choice should be, since that must be one for the GAA to make).

lets see how Unionists get on in May and then tell me their readiness for outreach

Why on earth should an election have anything to do it? Isn't it for the GAA to address on its own merits?

Or are you suggesting it's Unionists' fault that the GAA is facing this conundrum? That is, we should just be expected to put up with this sort of thing if we are to participate?

evil genius
not defending your right to challenge,
but i would say
1 the clonoe memorial is a memorial made by a gaa club not by the gaa as a generic organisation which is deliberately trying to stay clear of this minefield in both the South with the civil war commemorations and the North.
my own feelings are that   anyone is entitled to recognise their fallen on both sides , it isnt one sided, but its a political point.


i would be surprised if consent was sought and obtained from the trustees given rule 1.11 but maybe i am wrong.

OK, for the sake of argument, let us assume that this memorial does not contravene the Trustees' rules or those of the GAA.

Let us further agree that it is not comtravening the law of the land, along with the general principle that people understandably want to commemorate their dead etc.

That being so, do you accept that such memorials and commemorations can only serve to deter even moderate Unionists from getting involved with the GAA, not just the usual bucketmouths who, as has been pointed out, are ever looking for a stick with which to beat you, regardless of what you say or do?

And if you do agree - and this moderate Unionist would strongly advise that you should - then is it more important to you that clubs should be permitted to maintain this sort of activity, than it is to reach out to their Unionist neighbours?

If you are going to continue to insist that discussion of political commemorations by soccer clubs/bodies in the north is somehow unrelated to discussion of how such commemorations are handled by GAA, then it's really just a waste of time trying to engage with you. And you're just wasting your own time trying if you think anyone will take you seriously.

The thread title is: "GAA must 'reach out' to unionism" 

The opening line of the first post is:
"Fermanagh GAA player and journalist Colm Bradley has said further steps should be taken to encourage unionists to play gaelic games."

Do you agree with Mr. Bradley and if so, do you think that this memorial, whether allowable or not, is helpful to that end?

Or do you disagree with him?

Humour me with an answer.

You know, as the only Unionist about the place...

If someone on this Board was interested in joining his local soccer club, went along and saw that there was a memorial eg to three dead UVF men on the premises, would that make him/her more or less likely to go ahead?

Or would he/she just shrug it off?

Either way, I wouldn't want anything to do with such a club, whether soccer/UVF or GAA/IRA.

If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Are you suggesting all commemorations with political connections should be barred from sports grounds, or only the ones you personally disagree with?

This thread is about the GAA reaching out to Unionists.

If you wish to discuss eg the IFA reaching out to Nationailists, why not start a separate thread on that in the appropriate section?

After all, we wouldn't like to think you were hoping to deflect the discussion on this thread, would we?

Which brings us back to my original question. Any answer?

What a laughably pathetic reply. Surely even you could read that back and realise who cowardly it comes across.

If you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of political memorials in GAA grounds, then it's perfectly within the same sphere of discussion to discuss how political memorials are handled by other sports organisations in the same geographical region, by people who lived through the same shared experience of the same conflict.

SO enough dodging.

So start a separate thread on the topic and see whether I dodge that one then.

In the meantime, my entirely on-topic question was a simple one - UVF memorial" in a soccer club: head on in or turn away?


* - Not that I know of any, since it would undoubtedly be contrary to the rules and regs of the IFA.

If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Are you suggesting all commemorations with political connections should be barred from sports grounds, or only the ones you personally disagree with?

You're quite the fan of this Whataboutery game, aren't you?

How are you on Wordle, I'm having a bit of a problem with today's puzzle.

If someone on this Board was interested in joining his/her local soccer club, went along and saw that there was a memorial eg to three dead UVF men on the premises, would that make him/her more or less likely to go ahead?

Or would he/she just shrug it off?

Either way, I wouldn't want anything to do with such a club, whether soccer/UVF or GAA/IRA.

Personal choice
Personal choice

Hope this helps

Sorry, but it doesn't really help, since you don't disclose what your choice would be (i.e. carry on in, or turn on your heels and leave).

Just wondering, would you advocate violence against cultural expression or have unionists given that up? Reaching out to the oppressor, what a deranged concept, leave that for lickspittles and the like

May I deduce from that that you consider all of your Unionist neighbours/friends/workmates etc to be your "oppressors"?

And if so, does that mean you think the GAA must not attempt to reach out to Unionists (that being the topic of this discussion and all).

If someone on this Board was interested in joining his/her local soccer club, went along and saw that there was a memorial eg to three dead UVF men on the premises, would that make him/her more or less likely to go ahead?

Or would he/she just shrug it off?

Either way, I wouldn't want anything to do with such a club, whether soccer/UVF or GAA/IRA.

If the soccer team had poppies embroidered onto their playing shirts commemorating the likes of not just the paras, UDR et al but also the UVF, UDA, RHC would that not be more applicable?
You see, the poppy is every bit as offensive to some people as these IRA memorials are to others; and I'm sure you well know, many Unionists like to remember their UVF, UFF, RHC fallen heroes by wearing one...

That's still not answering my question, though, is it?

A question which was designed to require you to think about how the GAA's actions impact upon Unionists.

Which is, after all, the whole point of this thread.

So why won't you answer the question? I mean, if you continue to dodge it, I might be forced to draw my own conclusions from your reticence, which kinda defeats the purpose.

If someone on this Board was interested in joining his local soccer club, went along and saw that there was a memorial eg to three dead UVF men on the premises, would that make him/her more or less likely to go ahead?

Or would he/she just shrug it off?

Either way, I wouldn't want anything to do with such a club, whether soccer/UVF or GAA/IRA.

If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Are you suggesting all commemorations with political connections should be barred from sports grounds, or only the ones you personally disagree with?

This thread is about the GAA reaching out to Unionists.

If you wish to discuss eg the IFA reaching out to Nationailists, why not start a separate thread on that in the appropriate section?

After all, we wouldn't like to think you were hoping to deflect the discussion on this thread, would we?

Which brings us back to my original question. Any answer?

"Whataboutery" is just a lazy word that people use to try to squirm out having to explain glaring hypocrisies in their argument.

You don't know my "argument" (stance), since I didn't make one. Rather I asked a question to try to discern more about your stance.

If someone on this Board was interested in joining his local soccer club, went along and saw that there was a memorial eg to three dead UVF men on the premises, would that make him/her more or less likely to go ahead?

Or would he/she just shrug it off?

Either way, I wouldn't want anything to do with such a club, whether soccer/UVF or GAA/IRA.

and yet everyone has seen soccer clubs trying to get players to wear poppies and the like.

Whataboutery.

Why not just answer my question?